Good luck to the guy! Dome taken the cheap option!
If he does the business in this mediocre comp then fair play. Do i think he will be an improvement? no. Time will tell.
Are you ever actually happy with anything the nix do? Surely this is a good sign that the club has the skills to develop their own coaching and recruitng people after 15+ years in the league. Who would you have preferred if not Cheify?
Personally i would've gone for a Danny Hay (who was about to be assistant of Sydney before All Whites appt). Potentially Sam Wilkinson or a Jose Figueira or some one more local. This new fellas inexperienced and i guess so are my choices but i think the Nix have missed an opportunity to connect to the wider fan base, especially the National League. If the womens side is happy to promote and develop a kiwi then why havent the men? just a thought anyway.
Christ I'm glad you're not in charge. Wouldn't want to see Danny Hay anywhere near the club
Neither Rob Morrison nor David Dome fell off the back of a truck. They are very smart operators and will have their due diligence before making this decision.
It is the correct one.
It’s a good one. Nothing is guaranteed in football, especially with a reduction in head bandages and balls my word etc…
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
Jazzy Jeff
Showtime Nixie
theprof
Showtime Nixie
Good luck to the guy! Dome taken the cheap option!
If he does the business in this mediocre comp then fair play. Do i think he will be an improvement? no. Time will tell.
Are you ever actually happy with anything the nix do? Surely this is a good sign that the club has the skills to develop their own coaching and recruitng people after 15+ years in the league. Who would you have preferred if not Cheify?
Personally i would've gone for a Danny Hay (who was about to be assistant of Sydney before All Whites appt). Potentially Sam Wilkinson or a Jose Figueira or some one more local. This new fellas inexperienced and i guess so are my choices but i think the Nix have missed an opportunity to connect to the wider fan base, especially the National League. If the womens side is happy to promote and develop a kiwi then why havent the men? just a thought anyway.
Christ I'm glad you're not in charge. Wouldn't want to see Danny Hay anywhere near the club
danny hay at the phoenix? that's a short memory you've got thare showtime.
he had a pretty filthy attitude towards the nix when we booted up. was anti wellington and in his via-the-media contract negotiations he said he would not relocate to wellington to play for us, but was open to a commute. stuck in the old NSL mentality and seemed to think he was still leeds quality.
Tbf a lot of people in Auckland had a filthy attitude towards the Nix 10-15 years ago (remember the Knitting Circle?) and that seems to have quietened down, at least where I can hear anything
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
the guy was a video analysist who then was allowed to do some shooting drills for Talay. He's never been a coach of a team before!!...you read that right....never before! Hardly going to throw the cheque book at the guy. He'd probably do it for free. I hope he goes well but going with a guy thats never coached a team at any level? come on....raised eyebrows here. Maybe he took Woking to the Premier league on Champ Manager i dunno. But we want to be a top club in this league? Have to be a bit more ambitious and develop greater connections with fans.
the guy was a video analysist who then was allowed to do some shooting drills for Talay. He's never been a coach of a team before!!...you read that right....never before! Hardly going to throw the cheque book at the guy. He'd probably do it for free. I hope he goes well but going with a guy thats never coaches a team at any level? come on....raised eyebrows here. Maybe he took Woking to the Premier league on Champ Manager i dunno. But we want to be a top club in this league? Have to be a bit more ambitious and develop greater connections with fans.
Phoenix needed a fresh start, should've appointed the new Head Coach from outside our coaching staff - with Italiano getting the job can only see us playing the same old garbage with consistently poor defending etc, unless he has good insight & can analyse in depth to fix things, but can't see that happening as he's been in our coaching structure for 3 years or so... reckon he's a poor choice.
Seems very Sunday League for me. But hope he goes on to do good things...
Do we really want to be Champions though? I'm not sure anymore. What are we becoming....just your average joe with performances and appointments.
I don't have a lot of faith in our board either to be honest - fair play they've put money and time into the club but not sure they're exactly football minded. I don't feel like the club is going places if im honest.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
that's a good question
however, there's no place in any business model for poor football. it does not necessarily need to be championship winning football, but poor football will never wash
1. fans won't engage 2. you'll never be able to showcase the young players you want to sell
personally, i like what CCM are doing. for a while, we were the only team who played kids (singh, cacace), we seem to have lost our way in this regard. our 'young' players are 20-21 and they rarely play.
i can see a good future for the club, where we embed a playing style that develops young players and provides them with career advancement and also provides the club with revenue. the odd run in to the top four is inevitable if this is done properly.
Seems very Sunday League for me. But hope he goes on to do good things...
Do we really want to be Champions though? I'm not sure anymore. What are we becoming....just your average joe with performances and appointments.
I don't have a lot of faith in our board either to be honest - fair play they've put money and time into the club but not sure they're exactly football minded. I don't feel like the club is going places if im honest.
Seriously dude back the fudge off! all I've ever done is question your motivations and poorly constructed arguements and pointed out that you constant negativity is boring as fudge!
however, there's no place in any business model for poor football. it does not necessarily need to be championship winning football, but poor football will never wash
1. fans won't engage 2. you'll never be able to showcase the young players you want to sell
personally, i like what CCM are doing. for a while, we were the only team who played kids (singh, cacace), we seem to have lost our way in this regard. our 'young' players are 20-21 and they rarely play.
i can see a good future for the club, where we embed a playing style that develops young players and provides them with career advancement and also provides the club with revenue. the odd run in to the top four is inevitable if this is done properly.
Good point the CCM are a smallish club and seem to be well run and connected. I don't think it would be a bad idea for our owners to go and look at how things are operated there on a day to day.
We just seem to be lacking some spark around the place at the moment. Can't say I've been to every game this year but when i have i haven't had the excitement of years gone by. Maybe old age.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
CCM have been focussed on youth development for aaages, it seems to have worked but they have gone through a number of years of ok performances. Officially they joined the league 2 years before us and won the championship once (2013) - finished top of the league twice (07/08 and 11/12). Not sure if they are comparable to us or not, at least they are not one of the Melboure/Sydney favourites of the FFA cronies.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
What Kiwis have the nix or Talay not given a go though? We've had plenty of Kiwis in the squad over the years and a lot have been "given a crack" - some have made the cut (Singh, Libby, Rojas, Kosta, Sutton, Elliot) but a good number have not - in the current squad Van Hattum would be one I'd say has been given opportunities but failed to take the chances.
Intrigued to see how the nix lineup tactically next season, Italiano himself says he's a follower of former Leeds manager Marcelo Bielsa. Known for his 3-3-1-3 or 4-1-4-1, progressive playing out of the back, touchline wide players and a constant high press out of possesion. Or does he follow Talay's 4-2-2-2?
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
too many to mention
re: van hattum, you cannot live off 10 minute scraps with no reserve team football. you need to really committ to young players and provided they do everything that is asked of them, you need to give them serious minutes.
also, the playing structure is very specific and if it's not going well it can be a bad place for a developing player. one of the main factors here is overloads, which we do not do well. overloads allow you to carry players as much as creating attacking opportunities. this is why we are so dependent on our starting XI and also why players like Sasse, who is erratic, become so exposed
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
aguerooooooo
Intrigued to see how the nix lineup tactically next season, Italiano himself says he's a follower of former Leeds manager Marcelo Bielsa. Known for his 3-3-1-3 or 4-1-4-1, progressive playing out of the back, touchline wide players and a constant high press out of possesion. Or does he follow Talay's 4-2-2-2?
i'd like a change. bielsa ball would be great. but you practically need to be a scientist to implement it! perhaps a watered down version, somewhere north of your stock standard 4-3-3 (4-5-1)
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
To all the naysayers regarding Italiano's lack of first team experience - Talay was assistant at Sydney FC and this is the first season he managed to beat Corica twice in a row. People learn, mature and develop. Talay may yet coach overseas. Or he may take over from Corica. Good for him; I have no complaints that he developed into a decent coach (decent manager of players, at least) at The Nix.
The logical alternative according to some of you lot would be to say to Italiano - "we cannot give you this opportunity, because you never had a prior opportunity at this level before... what we want is someone experienced, like Kalezic"....?
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
What Kiwis have the nix or Talay not given a go though? We've had plenty of Kiwis in the squad over the years and a lot have been "given a crack" - some have made the cut (Singh, Libby, Rojas, Kosta, Sutton, Elliot) but a good number have not - in the current squad Van Hattum would be one I'd say has been given opportunities but failed to take the chances.
What opportunities? Do you even watch the Phoenix? OvH has been given barely 90 minutes in the A-League this season. Every minute he got was either last few at the end when we have the bus parked and his instructions are “chase down their CBs” or 15ish minutes when we are already a couple goals down, the opposition have closed the game down and no one else has managed to do anything.
Pre season he got some FFA cup time. Played 90 in the first game, scored. 1 min v Melbourne after the buses had been parked, 15 mins v McAurthur when 2:0 down with McArthur closing the game down
Started the preseason game v Jets; a 3:3 draw. OvH scored 2, Bids with the other. 3:0 when they came off half time. How many did the fan favourites score second half? Then only given bit parts in other pre-season games.
Not sure why so many hate on the kid. If his name was Clegg you’d all be screaming to give him a run of games.
Oh, that’s right, UT is such a great developer of youth so he should have developed. Perhaps go and look at the Adelaide game. How did that go for us. They played a hatful of players younger than our youngest starter, most of who EACH INDIVIDUALLY had more minutes this season than Oldie, Surman and OvH COMBINED.
Oh, but OvH came on at 4-1 down and failed to score a hat-trick to save us. Same against Victory, he had 5 minutes, why didn’t he produce anything. Talk about fail to take your opportunities.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
The fact that Chief has ascended so rapidly, over more established coaches within the club, is pretty impressive and might be an indication of someone exceptional.
We have all worked in companies where people who are less experienced are promoted above those who are more qualified based on potential and pure talent.
That undersells his time at Blacktown. They won the NSW State League and the National Premier Leagues competition in 2015. That when the best state leagues playoff in a national comp.
Some of what SN writes makes me think, but much of his scribblings have the fact checking of a Trump public address.
Italiano does have coaching experience. What he lacks is any experience playing the game at a high level. But that to me shows he can coach, having to do the hard yards from the grass roots upwards. You have to work harder to earn people's respect without the leg up of a known playing career. He gives hope to all roly poly 40 year olds who never got above Cap Prem Division 4, but reckon they know the game of football.
And those stats above re the lack of young player mins at both the Nix, and ALM generally this season is interesting. The Nix gave about 7-10 ALM debuts last season to young players when stuck in Aus, in the last Covid affected campaign. Most didn't cut the mustard (for now anyways). Someone like George Ott may get a 2nd crack at it. But yeah I hope they are not becoming too complacent in the Weenix Academy with all the kudos they have received the last few years. Likes of CCM & Adelaide have done far better this season in the youth space. I'm sure Temple, Falloon, Greenacre & Co will be looking at what can they do better.
Maybe alot of current crop had their development curtailed with no proper National Leagues in 2020 & 2021 (just CL football), plus no U17 & U20 age group World Cups over those years either, ie Covid slowed their potential development
Re the ALM as a whole, for young players the new National Second Division (NSD) can't come soon enough. Hopefully some Kiwis get the chance to play in it.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
ClubOranje
theprof
What Kiwis have the nix or Talay not given a go though? We've had plenty of Kiwis in the squad over the years and a lot have been "given a crack" - some have made the cut (Singh, Libby, Rojas, Kosta, Sutton, Elliot) but a good number have not - in the current squad Van Hattum would be one I'd say has been given opportunities but failed to take the chances.
What opportunities? Do you even watch the Phoenix? OvH has been given barely 90 minutes in the A-League this season. Every minute he got was either last few at the end when we have the bus parked and his instructions are “chase down their CBs” or 15ish minutes when we are already a couple goals down, the opposition have closed the game down and no one else has managed to do anything.
Pre season he got some FFA cup time. Played 90 in the first game, scored. 1 min v Melbourne after the buses had been parked, 15 mins v McAurthur when 2:0 down with McArthur closing the game down
Started the preseason game v Jets; a 3:3 draw. OvH scored 2, Bids with the other. 3:0 when they came off half time. How many did the fan favourites score second half? Then only given bit parts in other pre-season games.
Not sure why so many hate on the kid. If his name was Clegg you’d all be screaming to give him a run of games.
Oh, that’s right, UT is such a great developer of youth so he should have developed. Perhaps go and look at the Adelaide game. How did that go for us. They played a hatful of players younger than our youngest starter, most of who EACH INDIVIDUALLY had more minutes this season than Oldie, Surman and OvH COMBINED.
Oh, but OvH came on at 4-1 down and failed to score a hat-trick to save us. Same against Victory, he had 5 minutes, why didn’t he produce anything. Talk about fail to take your opportunities.
OVH has had the same opportunites that Sutton and Elliot have had in their time coming up through the ranks. Thye both made appearances and made an impact. I have nothing against OVH per se, just commenting on the fact that his impact has been minimal. Compare OVH to say Ben Old, when Old makes an appearance his impact is felt, sure he's a bit of a heads down player but he makes a difference - I'm yet to see anything like that from OVH.
however, there's no place in any business model for poor football. it does not necessarily need to be championship winning football, but poor football will never wash
1. fans won't engage 2. you'll never be able to showcase the young players you want to sell
personally, i like what CCM are doing. for a while, we were the only team who played kids (singh, cacace), we seem to have lost our way in this regard. our 'young' players are 20-21 and they rarely play.
i can see a good future for the club, where we embed a playing style that develops young players and provides them with career advancement and also provides the club with revenue. the odd run in to the top four is inevitable if this is done properly.
I agree with this, I'd love to see far more emphasis on youth minutes next season. Frankly I don't think Talay has been good at providing them at all, that needs to change if we want to be a selling club. We had Ben Wayne getting cameo minutes off the bench each week why? There's a player you want to develop even more so you can sell him for a higher rate, plus he can knock them in for us in the meantime. I also feel that young kiwis engage Nix fans far more than a bloke from Poland however much we love him on this forum.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
Showtime Nixie
kiwis. coach and squad. Can you argue that? nup. Engagment was through the roof!!
Good luck to this fella...he's worked hard. I hope it works.
Just doesn't have me tuning in anymore than the last flop.
You are the all-time bad take machine.
The idea that the Nix had good attendance in the early days because of a Kiwi coach and players is a load of rubbish. We had good attendance with Merrick at first and it fell off because of poor performance. Either way, I assume you just want to focus on the Ricki era, but even Ricki had shark attendance in the 12/13 season. What's the common denominator? Shark performance. Also who was the club's goalscoring superstar back then again? A Bajan. You seem to reckon the casual fans didn't care about Ifill because he wasn't a Kiwi.
And somehow you're calling Talay a flop, despite him stats-wise being the best coach we've had ever. If he's a flop, what does that make everyone else? The club's in the most stable place it's ever been, yet you still have to find something to whinge and whine about.
What Kiwis have the nix or Talay not given a go though? We've had plenty of Kiwis in the squad over the years and a lot have been "given a crack" - some have made the cut (Singh, Libby, Rojas, Kosta, Sutton, Elliot) but a good number have not - in the current squad Van Hattum would be one I'd say has been given opportunities but failed to take the chances.
We've been pretty middle of the pack in terms of youth minutes this season, I'd personally like to see it improve. What's more interesting, an old David Ball or a young kiwi prospect? Not saying you get rid of the old hands at all just saying more youth mins should equal greater development.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
Lachyloolaa
Showtime Nixie
kiwis. coach and squad. Can you argue that? nup. Engagment was through the roof!!
Good luck to this fella...he's worked hard. I hope it works.
Just doesn't have me tuning in anymore than the last flop.
You are the all-time bad take machine.
The idea that the Nix had good attendance in the early days because of a Kiwi coach and players is a load of rubbish. We had good attendance with Merrick at first and it fell off because of poor performance. Either way, I assume you just want to focus on the Ricki era, but even Ricki had shark attendance in the 12/13 season. What's the common denominator? Shark performance. Also who was the club's goalscoring superstar back then again? A Bajan. You seem to reckon the casual fans didn't care about Ifill because he wasn't a Kiwi.
And somehow you're calling Talay a flop, despite him stats-wise being the best coach we've had ever. If he's a flop, what does that make everyone else? The club's in the most stable place it's ever been, yet you still have to find something to whinge and whine about.
I remember being at a game with Ricki in charge and realising that there were no NZ born outfield players on the pitch. The only NZ players were Australian, like Durante and Lia, who had gotten citizenship by playing for the Nix.
There's a bit of history re-writing going on here. Under Herbert we were much more interested in signing Australian journeymen rather than playing young Kiwi's.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
Monto
theprof
What Kiwis have the nix or Talay not given a go though? We've had plenty of Kiwis in the squad over the years and a lot have been "given a crack" - some have made the cut (Singh, Libby, Rojas, Kosta, Sutton, Elliot) but a good number have not - in the current squad Van Hattum would be one I'd say has been given opportunities but failed to take the chances.
We've been pretty middle of the pack in terms of youth minutes this season, I'd personally like to see it improve. What's more interesting, an old David Ball or a young kiwi prospect? Not saying you get rid of the old hands at all just saying more youth mins should equal greater development.
I take us winning with experiences players over playing young untested kiwis and potentially losing.
We have always recruited from elsewhere and haven’t had fantastic results. Not withstanding Italiano’s ability, what have we got to lose with hiring from within? adidasbloke
Phoenix needed a fresh start, should've appointed the new Head Coach from outside our coaching staff - with Italiano getting the job can only see us playing the same old garbage with consistently poor defending etc, unless he has good insight & can analyse in depth to fix things, but can't see that happening as he's been in our coaching structure for 3 years or so... reckon he's a poor choice.
What Kiwis have the nix or Talay not given a go though? We've had plenty of Kiwis in the squad over the years and a lot have been "given a crack" - some have made the cut (Singh, Libby, Rojas, Kosta, Sutton, Elliot) but a good number have not - in the current squad Van Hattum would be one I'd say has been given opportunities but failed to take the chances.
We've been pretty middle of the pack in terms of youth minutes this season, I'd personally like to see it improve. What's more interesting, an old David Ball or a young kiwi prospect? Not saying you get rid of the old hands at all just saying more youth mins should equal greater development.
I take us winning with experiences players over playing young untested kiwis and potentially losing.
Or losing with experienced players?
I get that we need the experienced guys as well for sure but we're never gonna develop youth talent by giving them five mins at the end of a game when we're already down by two, there needs to be more of a middle ground I think.
I’m amused at how many people are so staunchly for or against his appointment. No one here know how good of a coach he is or how it will work out.
All I will say is that history has shown that the most successful coaches in the A-league have been locals. And there are a number of reasons for that is terms of needing to know local talent with foreign restrictions etc.
Immediately that reduces your pool of coaches. And of the successful ones, almost all are either retired (Merrick) or coaching overseas (Ange, Muscat, Kisnorbo). Popa and Corica are the ones that aren’t, but both have struggled at times despite having some of the biggest budgets.
For most clubs, it’s really a matter of selecting someone with little or no head coaching experience at A-league level. Adelaide and CCM have done that relatively successfully in the last. Whiles other haven’t (Perth, Macarthur, Roar). Some of that might be down to structures that help these coaches succeed.
So while no one know how it may pan out, the blueprint is one that has worked in the past.
I’m amused at how many people are so staunchly for or against his appointment. No one here know how good of a coach he is or how it will work out.
All I will say is that history has shown that the most successful coaches in the A-league have been locals. And there are a number of reasons for that is terms of needing to know local talent with foreign restrictions etc.
Immediately that reduces your pool of coaches. And of the successful ones, almost all are either retired (Merrick) or coaching overseas (Ange, Muscat, Kisnorbo). Popa and Corica are the ones that aren’t, but both have struggled at times despite having some of the biggest budgets.
For most clubs, it’s really a matter of selecting someone with little or no head coaching experience at A-league level. Adelaide and CCM have done that relatively successfully in the last. Whiles other haven’t (Perth, Macarthur, Roar). Some of that might be down to structures that help these coaches succeed.
So while no one know how it may pan out, the blueprint is one that has worked in the past.
I think for the people in favour of him, it's less about it being Chiefy specifically, but more about the route the club have gone down in promoting one of their own. As you say, none of us know anything about him, so I don't know how anyone could be negative about his appointment yet. I can understand why people are pleased with it, given the recent success of Kisnorbo, Veart, and particularly Montgomery
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
Ryan
Lachyloolaa
Showtime Nixie
kiwis. coach and squad. Can you argue that? nup. Engagment was through the roof!!
Good luck to this fella...he's worked hard. I hope it works.
Just doesn't have me tuning in anymore than the last flop.
You are the all-time bad take machine.
The idea that the Nix had good attendance in the early days because of a Kiwi coach and players is a load of rubbish. We had good attendance with Merrick at first and it fell off because of poor performance. Either way, I assume you just want to focus on the Ricki era, but even Ricki had shark attendance in the 12/13 season. What's the common denominator? Shark performance. Also who was the club's goalscoring superstar back then again? A Bajan. You seem to reckon the casual fans didn't care about Ifill because he wasn't a Kiwi.
And somehow you're calling Talay a flop, despite him stats-wise being the best coach we've had ever. If he's a flop, what does that make everyone else? The club's in the most stable place it's ever been, yet you still have to find something to whinge and whine about.
I remember being at a game with Ricki in charge and realising that there were no NZ born outfield players on the pitch. The only NZ players were Australian, like Durante and Lia, who had gotten citizenship by playing for the Nix.
There's a bit of history re-writing going on here. Under Herbert we were much more interested in signing Australian journeymen rather than playing young Kiwi's.
I should be working, but was interested to see what the stats showed.
Out of all of our coaches, Talay has given the highest proportion of total minutes to Kiwis (47%), next closest is Herbet on 41%. image.png11.05 KB Herbert fielded the most Aussie based teams (39%), this looks like it is due to several of his foreign players getting pretty limited minutes, the 2008/09 imports played a combined 1,500 minutes (by contrast, Zawada has played 1,800 this season by himself).
The data I used is on a season by season basis, so I haven't split out the caretaker periods. I've treated Dura as an Aussie, I do think that he became a kiwi at some stage, but I don't think he was one in 07/08 or 08/09 so for the stats I chose to treat him as an Aussie throughout. Given he has been on the field for 62%(!) of all the minutes that the phoenix have played this does swing things a bit, Herbert increases to 48% Kiwi if Dura's a Kiwi from day 1.
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