NZ teams in Australian Comps: Lessons

NZ teams in Australian Comps: Lessons

Having just watched the article on One News on the Breakers and how they are beginning to do well in the NBL after 6 seasons it got me thinking about our expectations of the Nix.
Look at both the Warriors and the Breakers, it has taken them a long time to get the recipe SEMI RIGHT. Ricki said at the Q and A that when he had spoken to Steve Price last year Price had said they still hadn't got the recipe for travel right.
So my question/point is what and how much can we learn from the other NZ teams that are in Aussie competitions about travel, intensity lift, importing players, garnering support, gaining credibility?

That good things take time.

Unfortunately we live in a world where instant gratification is the go, and therein lies the problem.

Given the history of NZ Football and its teams in Australian competitions is time something we have?

No. Which further adds to the problem.

Well the Breakers took four seasons to come right. The Kingz/Knights had 8 years and never got going (not sure what the highest position they ever got to in either the NSL or HAL0. Hopefully the Nix get a chance and in a few years can really establish themselves as a top side in the HAL.

Kingz were doing OK until Sky took over, and should not really be mentioned in the same breath as the Knights - different leagues, set-ups, etc.

NZK were a total disaster from the start, and only had two years in which they operated anyway. How long did it take the Warriors to get in the playoffs? From memory they got in for the first time in 2001, so that'd make it six seasons, wouldn't it?

They missed the playoffs by one spot (after they lost two points for using one to many subs against wests) in 95. I guess the big thing the Warriors show is how you need the back office working before things can really take shape on the field.

this is something i've thought about and i guess the only thing is that it will take a little bit of time for us to establish ourselves but im worried we wont be given the time that a club like the Fury or the Real Bling would get if they were in a similar position to us

Sure it wasnt that long,  was it? (Did seem very long between wins though)

Maybe 5 years all up??

The Breakers are doing well now I believe because they have bought well and most/all of the players have experience

We are light years ahead of the KingZ/Knights behind the scenes I think, and getting more ruthless about our squad in our second season

The thing about the Warriors is that they are consistently up there at the end of the season and so there isnt even a hint of dropping them.

Paulinho2008-11-21 20:46:08

Well that is two clubs, not just Kingz (still can't believe they spelt Kingz with a 'z').

8 years, 7 seasons.  There was no season 05/06.

The Kingz had 5 seasons, as Bopman says, the first two were a great base on whcih to build at which point Sky bought the club and screwed them in one season.  The last two seasons were struggling to exist under Chris Turner who (bless his heart) was saddled with a league that was failing, a budget that he was scraping together and a media perception built out of the season where Sky destroyed the club.

The Knights while buying the shell of the Kingz were a different entity in a different league run by a bunch of clueless numpties.

They spelt it with an 'S' and then the Sydney Kings Basketball side threatened to sue them and there was no way they could afford the time or funding to fight it but they already had the brand out there so the 'z' was the safest route to guarantee the clubs existence.

Bopman starts a thread about learning from the Warriors and Breakers and I get a football history lesson, perfect.

That makes it far better then.  At least they didn't start out with the 'z' in an attempt to attract the youth or something equally dreadful.

Incorrect. There was no season 04/05. I remember well because it was the first NZFC season and the only football around at the time.

/pedantic

Typical, I start a thread to ask serious questions and have a serious discussion about the qualities we want to develop in our club and it ends up being a thread where News can prove once again he is smarter than the rest of us..... Jesus people, get it together

I learnt quite a bit reading this actually Bopman!
coming back to your original thought though surely SPARC, or their NZ Institute of Sport should have gathered information and expertise on everything you mentioned.
If they haven't they ought to do it and smartly.
 With not only league and basketball,the Phoenix and now netball involved in transtasman leagues... plus rugby's experience... surely SPARC or NZIS could gather expertise and information and present it to the Phoenix and the other codes management to assist in planning and improvement?
just a thought...

I think that we can learn a lot from the Breakers and Warriors. Perhaps managements should be meeting up if they haven't already. I think we should try and attract some regular International Auzie players - the Warriors have done so for League and that has given the team a higher respect in Auz.

The big difference between us and the Warriors is that  we have got things sorted off the park early on and are a far more 'professional' organisation than they were at the same stage in their history. It's taken the Warriors a long time to get the off-field stuff right and they are now reaping the benefits on the park. We also, with a few notable exceptions, have recruited well right from the start which certainly wasn't always the case with the Warriors in the early days.

I also follow the Breakers and the Warriors and would agree that admin-wise,
the Nix are streets-ahead of both during the infancy of their existence in their respective Aussie leagues.

Warriors were sold to Tainui and almost folded in 2000.

Breakers were a rabble in the first two seasons - the third and fourth was bad but there was change.

At the heart of their turnaround was some good recruiting, however.

Warriors got Price and Wiki for the 2005 season onwards because they had a bad culture in 2004. They've also been able to foster some good young talent (i.e. Under 20 players)

Breakers lured back the prodigal son in Kirk Penney in 2007, added a winner and veteran in Tony Ronaldson, and in 2008, lured C.J Bruton, a three-time Australian Olympian.

Phoenix off-the-field, we can all agree that they have been great; now with the signing of Fred, hopefully another will come and the on-field results will be great. I have every faith in Tony and Terry.

I my defence that was after work Quiz night (where Wilso and my team bolted in) and I had powered back a measure of top quality red from the cellar of a work mate.

do what the kiwis do....

Goodness, if you want an example of an NZ team that was on top of their travel arrangements and timing of certain training, then looking at the Canterbury Crusaders' historical & development set up in the Super 10/12/14 won't be a bad start. Or even the original Auckland Blues set up before Canterbury overtook them.

A talk to Graham Henry (original Blues coach)and Robbie Deans can't hurt.

Traveling to South Africa and getting training tips on high altitude competition would help if we end up in World Cup 2010 in South Africa. The quicker Ricki Herbert taps into this knowledge the better prepared our players will be in both Phoenix and All Whites teams training set ups.AllWhitebelievr2008-11-23 03:24:18

I'm not sure how relevant any information would be given the nature of the sport, obviously being well organised off the field is essential but the Phoenix look good in that regard. In salary capped leagues I guess the most important thing for prolonged success is unearthing new players, the Warriors have a good pool of local talent to work with but outside recruits are limited to those from Aus and the Uk. The Phoenix on the other hand have limited local talent, but potentially huge pool of players globally to recruit from (although limited to 5 players). So a greater emphasis needs to be put on scouting, rather than youth development.

Great thread, very interesting and enlightening.

Apart from this post that is, sorry all!

I suspect those involved are just poking sticks in to me... in Oska's case he's still bitter about being hit  with the banstick.