Wellington Phoenix Men

Our worst season ever?

30 replies · 2,004 views
almost 12 years ago

Okay so last year we finished bottom with 27 points, with just seven wins. We conceded 48 goals.


Right now we are on track for defeat, on 28 points, with just seven wins. And before the game we had conceded 50 goals.


I know Ernie Merrick seems like the right choice because of his intelligence, the brand of football he tries to implement, he backs young NZ talent, and just the way he conducts himself. But his record this season has been terrible, and for the first time ever I've found myself losing interest. How many people are even at the game tonight? Plus so many of our players have been kept on when we needed to start fresh, and find a new core.

We also keep getting thrashed. ugh! 


So does everyone else think this is our worst season, or do you still think last year was? I'd love to know the reasons why..

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

Probably our worst season ever at home anyway. Think I've seen them win once at home in person this season.

I guess Ernie has to carry some of the responsibility. Will be interested to see if he ships out some of the deadwood in the off season.

Signing Lia for 2 years has me worried though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

This maybe is our worst season but it doesn't matter. Last season we were a team which was going nowhere. Herbert had run out of ideas and the squad played boring, predictable football. This year Merrick has tried to change the style of the team and the way they play. I think we can end this season with more hope for the future then we had at the end of last season, even if we end up with the spoon. It's going to take Merrick a bit of time to get the team playing how he wants them too. For me, it doesn't matter that much if we come last in one season as there is no promotion/relegation. As long as I can see the team is making progress then that is all I care about. It's all about the long term goal of winning the league and if we do that in a few seasons where we come this year won't matter. If we come last next season then that will be terrible. I agree that we need a major clear out of players but it is difficult to do that. Unfortunately out squad is already quite locked in for next season. It's clear that major signings are needed to advance this team but I don't know who we can sign.

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago · edited almost 12 years ago · History

Positives:

Tyler Boyd


Negatives:

Everything else

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago · edited almost 12 years ago · History
Ryan54 wrote:

This maybe is our worst season but it doesn't matter. Last season we were a team which was going nowhere. Herbert had run out of ideas and the squad played boring, predictable football. This year Merrick has tried to change the style of the team and the way they play. I think we can end this season with more hope for the future then we had at the end of last season, even if we end up with the spoon. It's going to take Merrick a bit of time to get the team playing how he wants them too. For me, it doesn't matter that much if we come last in one season as there is no promotion/relegation. As long as I can see the team is making progress then that is all I care about. It's all about the long term goal of winning the league and if we do that in a few seasons where we come this year won't matter. If we come last next season then that will be terrible. I agree that we need a major clear out of players but it is difficult to do that. Unfortunately out squad is already quite locked in for next season. It's clear that major signings are needed to advance this team but I don't know who we can sign.



We should have quite allot of money left under the cap for a top foreign signing. Combining the best part of Iffil and Huysegems wage packets. Plus our youngsters will have another year under their belts + a settled team for the off season.

Apparently Reira's injury was predictable when an amateur player comes into a pro club without a full off season for conditioning.

A big problem could be the motivation of the Costa Ricans, right now Carlos is fired up because there is the carrot of a world cup. Next year he might be back to "Fat Carlos". I think Kenny will be quality.
Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Ryan54 wrote:

This maybe is our worst season but it doesn't matter.



You really think it doesn't matter? What are the odds, then, that:

1) Ernie has had enough of this crap and quits?
2) Welnix have had enough of this crap and relinquish the licence?
3) FFA,, under AFC pressure, have had enough of this crap and pulls the licence?

How are those Canberra / FNQ / Woollongong A-League bids looking? There is only so often that we can play a shit game in front of no fans in an inappropriate stadium in bad weather. The only thing we really have up our sleeve is the NZST time zone, and we already know that Gareth isn't adverse to an Auckland bid (although I have no optimism that that would take off).

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Doloras wrote:
Ryan54 wrote:

This maybe is our worst season but it doesn't matter.



You really think it doesn't matter? What are the odds, then, that:

1) Ernie has had enough of this crap and quits?
2) Welnix have had enough of this crap and relinquish the licence?
3) FFA,, under AFC pressure, have had enough of this crap and pulls the licence?

How are those Canberra / FNQ / Woollongong A-League bids looking? There is only so often that we can play a shit game in front of no fans in an inappropriate stadium in bad weather. The only thing we really have up our sleeve is the NZST time zone, and we already know that Gareth isn't adverse to an Auckland bid (although I have no optimism that that would take off).


None of that matters if we have a good team in a couple of seasons. I mean I'm sure we could have done better this season if we signed Matt Thompson. He's decent and would have done the Reira role and maybe with him we would have made the playoffs? But it's all irrelevant because Thompson wouldn't be part of any long term future. Welnix and Ernie can't bitch they have put this team together. The problem I see for the Phoenix is trying to hold onto promising youngsters and hope they don't go to other Australian teams as they have done in the past. Assuming we can retain talent, then there is no reason to focus on the short term.

Let's put it this way: Herbert would have definitely made sure we didn't get thrashed as much this season Should we have retained him so we didn't get embarrassed so much? No. We knew under Herbert we would hardly ever make the playoffs so we made the change and long term we will be better for it. Of course, long term to perform well we will need more investment from Welnix.
Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

We managed to avoid the spoon therefore it is not!

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

Its simple Welnix got in Ernie to play much better football which they did. They thought that being clever they could do that with the minimum investment and that failed miserably.

Silly as every football club in the Universe figures that investment pays off. 

Christ if they'd said we are writing off the season to build a stadium - fair enough but they didn't, they just bullshitted.

Youth? Signing every man and his dog, and his dog's mate who is a dog, hardly speaks of strategic brilliance when these guys have never played at A league level, the rest jeez.

To make us a popular brand? Circus and being destroyed at home regularly - back-fired - no one is interested anymore.


Christ to kill off a brand - well they are doing a great job.

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago · edited almost 12 years ago · History


Pretty spot on FT. Biggest disappointment was probably our home form, and you have to wonder how much the traveling circus affected that, and what the flow on effect on attendences and the general "brand" was. Also, I get that they think encouraging families and young kids at the games is a long term strategy to raise crowds but realistically once these kids make it to teenagehood they'll think all the kidiness of Nixie and the Nixie chicks etc is the lamest thing ever and they won't come back until they're in their mid 20s at least, if they ever come back. I sometimes get the feeling that Welnix are looking so far ahead that they are tripping over the obstacles smack in front of them. Building a stadium and developing fans who won't pay their way for 20years doesn't make sense if the club isn't at least moderately sustainable in the meantime.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago · edited almost 12 years ago · History
Ryan54 wrote:
Doloras wrote:
Ryan54 wrote:

This maybe is our worst season but it doesn't matter.



You really think it doesn't matter? What are the odds, then, that:

1) Ernie has had enough of this crap and quits?
2) Welnix have had enough of this crap and relinquish the licence?
3) FFA,, under AFC pressure, have had enough of this crap and pulls the licence?

How are those Canberra / FNQ / Woollongong A-League bids looking? There is only so often that we can play a shit game in front of no fans in an inappropriate stadium in bad weather. The only thing we really have up our sleeve is the NZST time zone, and we already know that Gareth isn't adverse to an Auckland bid (although I have no optimism that that would take off).


None of that matters if we have a good team in a couple of seasons. I mean I'm sure we could have done better this season if we signed Matt Thompson. He's decent and would have done the Reira role and maybe with him we would have made the playoffs? But it's all irrelevant because Thompson wouldn't be part of any long term future. Welnix and Ernie can't bitch they have put this team together. The problem I see for the Phoenix is trying to hold onto promising youngsters and hope they don't go to other Australian teams as they have done in the past. Assuming we can retain talent, then there is no reason to focus on the short term.

Let's put it this way: Herbert would have definitely made sure we didn't get thrashed as much this season Should we have retained him so we didn't get embarrassed so much? No. We knew under Herbert we would hardly ever make the playoffs so we made the change and long term we will be better for it. Of course, long term to perform well we will need more investment from Welnix.


Err, we made the playoffs three seasons out of six under Ricki.


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Junior82 wrote:
Ryan54 wrote:
Doloras wrote:
Ryan54 wrote:

This maybe is our worst season but it doesn't matter.



You really think it doesn't matter? What are the odds, then, that:

1) Ernie has had enough of this crap and quits?
2) Welnix have had enough of this crap and relinquish the licence?
3) FFA,, under AFC pressure, have had enough of this crap and pulls the licence?

How are those Canberra / FNQ / Woollongong A-League bids looking? There is only so often that we can play a shit game in front of no fans in an inappropriate stadium in bad weather. The only thing we really have up our sleeve is the NZST time zone, and we already know that Gareth isn't adverse to an Auckland bid (although I have no optimism that that would take off).


None of that matters if we have a good team in a couple of seasons. I mean I'm sure we could have done better this season if we signed Matt Thompson. He's decent and would have done the Reira role and maybe with him we would have made the playoffs? But it's all irrelevant because Thompson wouldn't be part of any long term future. Welnix and Ernie can't bitch they have put this team together. The problem I see for the Phoenix is trying to hold onto promising youngsters and hope they don't go to other Australian teams as they have done in the past. Assuming we can retain talent, then there is no reason to focus on the short term.

Let's put it this way: Herbert would have definitely made sure we didn't get thrashed as much this season Should we have retained him so we didn't get embarrassed so much? No. We knew under Herbert we would hardly ever make the playoffs so we made the change and long term we will be better for it. Of course, long term to perform well we will need more investment from Welnix.


Err, we made the playoffs three seasons out of six under Ricki.



I know. Do you think that trend would continue? Honestly, if we thought Herbert would continue to get us into the playoffs 50% of the time then why the hell did we let him go? If you think this season was worse than last season then you are really saying that Herbert was a better coach than Merrick. After all Herbert had a far worse squad last season (no Hernandez and Cunningham). There is no way, IMO, that Herbert would have coached this season's squad to within two points of the spoon.  I think we would be about where Newcastle are.There is also no way, IMO, that Herbert would get us to finish high up the table in the future, even though he has done it in the past.
Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

We could do with more Aussies. McKain was good for us, and at a good age too, wasn't some old has been journeyman. I don't think they like staying here though. 

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

I think that Merrick's plan does not have Welnix's dollars or Melbourne's talent base, so isn't going to happen. I hope to be proved wrong. I am deeply worried about the players we have retained. It doesn't have the look of an ambitious club. Melbourne is a club with deep pockets, pride and a f-load of fans who care about the club.  



Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago


Pretty spot on FT. Biggest disappointment was probably our home form, and you have to wonder how much the traveling circus affected that, and what the flow on effect on attendences and the general "brand" was. Also, I get that they think encouraging families and young kids at the games is a long term strategy to raise crowds but realistically once these kids make it to teenagehood they'll think all the kidiness of Nixie and the Nixie chicks etc is the lamest thing ever and they won't come back until they're in their mid 20s at least, if they ever come back. I sometimes get the feeling that Welnix are looking so far ahead that they are tripping over the obstacles smack in front of them. Building a stadium and developing fans who won't pay their way for 20years doesn't make sense if the club isn't at least moderately sustainable in the meantime.



I keep saying that this 100% focus on kids / families is not the way to go.

Of course it's important to still target that market, but it appears the market who actually supplies $$$ to the club (i.e. those with most disposable income) are largely ignored and every week feels like some big 'family event'.  Not what football is ALL about IMO.  When I was a kid I watched the games and didn't need people dressed in chicken outfits and a stupid dance at half time to entertain me, why do they think these kids need all this gimmicky crap?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Ryan54 wrote:

This maybe is our worst season but it doesn't matter. Last season we were a team which was going nowhere. Herbert had run out of ideas and the squad played boring, predictable football. This year Merrick has tried to change the style of the team and the way they play. I think we can end this season with more hope for the future then we had at the end of last season, even if we end up with the spoon. It's going to take Merrick a bit of time to get the team playing how he wants them too. For me, it doesn't matter that much if we come last in one season as there is no promotion/relegation. As long as I can see the team is making progress then that is all I care about. It's all about the long term goal of winning the league and if we do that in a few seasons where we come this year won't matter. If we come last next season then that will be terrible. I agree that we need a major clear out of players but it is difficult to do that. Unfortunately out squad is already quite locked in for next season. It's clear that major signings are needed to advance this team but I don't know who we can sign.



I think the last few games we were playing exactly the same as last season under Ricki.
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Ryan wrote:
Ryan54 wrote:

This maybe is our worst season but it doesn't matter. Last season we were a team which was going nowhere. Herbert had run out of ideas and the squad played boring, predictable football. This year Merrick has tried to change the style of the team and the way they play. I think we can end this season with more hope for the future then we had at the end of last season, even if we end up with the spoon. It's going to take Merrick a bit of time to get the team playing how he wants them too. For me, it doesn't matter that much if we come last in one season as there is no promotion/relegation. As long as I can see the team is making progress then that is all I care about. It's all about the long term goal of winning the league and if we do that in a few seasons where we come this year won't matter. If we come last next season then that will be terrible. I agree that we need a major clear out of players but it is difficult to do that. Unfortunately out squad is already quite locked in for next season. It's clear that major signings are needed to advance this team but I don't know who we can sign.



We should have quite allot of money left under the cap for a top foreign signing. Combining the best part of Iffil and Huysegems wage packets. Plus our youngsters will have another year under their belts + a settled team for the off season.

Apparently Reira's injury was predictable when an amateur player comes into a pro club without a full off season for conditioning.

A big problem could be the motivation of the Costa Ricans, right now Carlos is fired up because there is the carrot of a world cup. Next year he might be back to "Fat Carlos". I think Kenny will be quality.


Yes Reira's was very predictable.  You've taken a player on the wrong side of his career and expected him to become a pro athlete over night.  This problem stops many players in the UK who have been playing Conference football from playing in the football League, their bodies just can't take the step up in intensity.  This is even so for players who were in professional environments when they were younger like Reira.  David Mulligan would struggle to step up again as pro for instance (not that he would now I'd say).

As others have said, Thompson should have been signed as cover.
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

Reira is a defensive mid. Thompson is an attacking mid. Wouldnt make sense to sign him

I have an amazing ability to find my way out of mazes. I'm pathological. 
Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

I think it's been a crap season, yes. But I see the glass half full - big time.

We have never played this well, EVER in our history. We need to give Ernie and the players credit for that. We have been an attack-minded team, we have dominated (some) games, and won more away games than anyone thought possible.

There were some woeful performances, but I that's no news if you ask me. Ricky got a few spankings too over the years, didn't he?

It must also be said that we've been very unlucky with injuries and, although I think recruitment should have been better, I wonder what our season would have been like if we had the likes of Ifill, Riera, Fenton etc available for the whole season.


VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Marto wrote:

Yes Reira's was very predictable.


Now, that's not fair. As far as I can remember, no-one here predicted it, therefore it was not predictable.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

I'm just happy I went to the back to back away wins - otherwise it would have been a pretty miserable season.

Founder

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Feverish wrote:

I'm just happy I went to the back to back away wins - otherwise it would have been a pretty miserable season.

Agree with that; that run of wins demonstrated to me that Ernie's coaching produces results given the pick of the squad, and availability. 
Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

Problem is next year has the potential to be even more of a travelling circus with the cricket World Cup forcing us out of Westpac from Mid February to end of March. Napier is also likely to be out of the question then.

I actually think I'll be holding off getting my membership until I know what is happening with the games, as even though I did travel to Napier game, it annoyed me having first home game at Westpac and then not playing there again until over a month later.

As for the team, I don't know what needs to happen, but it worries me so many of the same players have be re-signed. I think with Stein on the bench and his contract negotiations going nowhere, he will be leaving us. So if that happens, that'll give us a visa spot and some money to sign someone.

I'm an optimistic pessimist. 
I'm positive things will go wrong.
Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

Given poor scheduling at start of season with few home "home" games coupled with poor results before things got better than injuries made it worse again the season's outcome is about right.  Crowds didnt come because results didnt come..till too late realy.

Yes at times it was pretty to watch..and absolutely yes it is benefiting NZ football given the size of our NZ player base.  So I can buy into WelNix vision of helping NZ footbal grow via Nix..but will AFL continue to buy into...Im not sure on that one.  We could of cousre get more Aussies in at expense of the Kiwis but I think there is mismatch between club and country here for WelNix to reflect on.  A stronger Nix.with more quality Aussies would mean fewer kiwi talent getting its chance and AWs not improving.  I guess it comes back to getting that reserve team setup and in the comp?

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Yakcall wrote:

Problem is next year has the potential to be even more of a travelling circus with the cricket World Cup forcing us out of Westpac from Mid February to end of March. Napier is also likely to be out of the question then.

I actually think I'll be holding off getting my membership until I know what is happening with the games, as even though I did travel to Napier game, it annoyed me having first home game at Westpac and then not playing there again until over a month later.

As for the team, I don't know what needs to happen, but it worries me so many of the same players have be re-signed. I think with Stein on the bench and his contract negotiations going nowhere, he will be leaving us. So if that happens, that'll give us a visa spot and some money to sign someone.

Ironic then that we got an email saying season tickets on sale by end of April.

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Steve-O wrote:


Pretty spot on FT. Biggest disappointment was probably our home form, and you have to wonder how much the traveling circus affected that, and what the flow on effect on attendences and the general "brand" was. Also, I get that they think encouraging families and young kids at the games is a long term strategy to raise crowds but realistically once these kids make it to teenagehood they'll think all the kidiness of Nixie and the Nixie chicks etc is the lamest thing ever and they won't come back until they're in their mid 20s at least, if they ever come back. I sometimes get the feeling that Welnix are looking so far ahead that they are tripping over the obstacles smack in front of them. Building a stadium and developing fans who won't pay their way for 20years doesn't make sense if the club isn't at least moderately sustainable in the meantime.



I keep saying that this 100% focus on kids / families is not the way to go.

Of course it's important to still target that market, but it appears the market who actually supplies $$$ to the club (i.e. those with most disposable income) are largely ignored and every week feels like some big 'family event'.  Not what football is ALL about IMO.  When I was a kid I watched the games and didn't need people dressed in chicken outfits and a stupid dance at half time to entertain me, why do they think these kids need all this gimmicky crap?
You did however want to see your heroes do great things, not have the promise of doing great things.


Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Boro4eva wrote:
Yakcall wrote:

Problem is next year has the potential to be even more of a travelling circus with the cricket World Cup forcing us out of Westpac from Mid February to end of March. Napier is also likely to be out of the question then.

I actually think I'll be holding off getting my membership until I know what is happening with the games, as even though I did travel to Napier game, it annoyed me having first home game at Westpac and then not playing there again until over a month later.

As for the team, I don't know what needs to happen, but it worries me so many of the same players have be re-signed. I think with Stein on the bench and his contract negotiations going nowhere, he will be leaving us. So if that happens, that'll give us a visa spot and some money to sign someone.

Ironic then that we got an email saying season tickets on sale by end of April.

Want people to resign before you know what is happening and if people do, good on them. I'll still be supporting the Nix. Just hard to know what the schedule is going to be like with this massive disruption.
I do know they were talking about a membership that involves things during the off season this year and not just a season ticket for games when A-League has started again.
I'm an optimistic pessimist. 
I'm positive things will go wrong.
Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

I watched Hibs martinb so I didn't see many great things!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

Re: the Thomson thing. It was never a choice of him coming as cover for Riera. Riera was signed instead of Thomson. And regardless of the injury that was clearly the right call to pass on Thomson and sign Riera.

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago

We still have the FFA cup to play in, Or is that part of next season?.

Mr Positive

Permalink Permalink
almost 12 years ago
Steve-O wrote:

I watched Hibs martinb so I didn't see many great things!


this explains many things about you Steve-O !


Permalink Permalink