Wellington Phoenix Men

Phoenix O-League Entry

51 replies · 939 views
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
danielsleftball wrote:
Hard News wrote:
I actually think there are some serious reasons why not, but I'm staying well out of it.

 

By posting little snippets like this, your not staying out of it, your giving an opinion and not the reasons for it !

 

That's like me saying "yeah I think he's a w**ker but I'm not going to say that".  Come on HN I'm interested.

 

Just for my information (and I' sorry if it's been covered before), what is the normal qualification route for the O-League and do any of the Aussie A-league teams qualify?


Check out one of the myriad threads on this in the NZF/OFC section.
But basically, it's a competition for the Champion clubs of the Oceania region (NZFC gets two entries into the competition), and no Australian clubs participate since they're in AFC these days.
 
So if I understand this right, we're asking for a team that plays in a league governed by the Asian FC (a federation that has it's own qualification format for the O-League) to be able to qualify for an O-league place through a football federation in which we don't compete in any competition (NZFC).
 
Isn't that a little bit cake and eat it?  We are an Australian league franchise and not a New Zealand "club" when all is said and done.
Shoot.
Permalink Permalink
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
EDIT: Just a quick wrap-up for DLB

The O-league is in fact, the OCL - Oceanian Champions League. The basic issue at stake is access to WCC in Japan. Phoenix are not allowed to participate in the Asian Champions League despite playing in the A-League (basically, an Asian league), since we're from Oceania.
Should the Phoenix then be allowed to try to get to WCC through Oceania? The argument really goes both ways, but what the crunch issue is Blatter threatening to pull the plug on Oceania participation in WCC unless results improve, and unless professional clubs represent the region. The options left are either for the Phoenix to be given the chance to try to save the Oceania spot at the tournament, or face the exit from the tournament in the next two years by continuing to send the NZFC sides to Japan.el grapadura2008-02-01 09:52:28
Permalink Permalink
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
EDIT: Just a quick wrap-up for DLB

The O-league is in fact, the OCL - Oceanian Champions League. The basic issue at stake is access to WCC in Japan. Phoenix are not allowed to participate in the Asian Champions League despite playing in the A-League (basically, an Asian league), since we're from Oceania.
Should the Phoenix then be allowed to try to get to WCC through Oceania? The argument really goes both ways, but what the crunch issue is Blatter threatening to pull the plug on Oceania participation in WCC unless results improve, and unless professional clubs represent the region. The options left are either for the Phoenix to be given the chance to try to save the Oceania spot at the tournament, or face the exit from the tournament in the next two years by continuing to send the NZFC sides to Japan.
 
IMHO:
 

Either the Phoenix play in the NZFC league and qualify or concentrate on becoming a decent A-league side.  The standard of professional football in NZ isn't the concern of an Australian league franchise, that's for the NZFC to sort out.

 

Of course it would be a shame if we didn't have representation at the WCC but that's nothing to do with the Phoenix.

danielsleftball2008-02-01 10:13:50
Permalink Permalink
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It does have everything to do with NZ and if NZ is strong and so would the Phoenix. Phoenix was created for the benefit of NZ football and in getting a higher standard of football in the country as a player pathway. so they are honouring that agreement they have to NZF, since NZF was heavily invoved with the negotations to sub-let the licence. Remember NZF has the licence and the Phoenix are being sub-let with that licence, so the NZF are there licencee and they are sub-licencee and the FFA are the licence provider to their A-league.

It also reflects bad for NZFC clubs especially we are looking for a second full time professional franhise in the A-league. If its bad for NZFC clubs then it is bad for our player recruitment for the Phoenix in the A-league. NZFC players need experience against harder teams whether it is one of the CWC teams or the Phoenix. It also helps to recognise players that may be able to take the step up by demostrate their abilities against the Phoenix.

FFA has given a licence to an oceania country which happens to be NZF and NZF sub-let it to one of oceania clubs which happens to be the Phoenix and not Auckland city nor Youngheart Manawatu. So Phoenix is an oceania club. It is eligliable to be NZF premier club if it is accepted by OFC to bypass OFC competition in light of presented evidence that is good enough to complete against any of the OFC regional champions.

Since NZF has awarded that licence to the best Club available to fit all the criteria, then that is very much evidence in itself that NZF regards the Phoenix are their best club to take the licence and not any of the NZFC club (who didn't bothered to apply for the sub-licence, mind you.) as well as a capable champion to represent OFC should they win the O-league games.

A-league is regarded as a superior competition to NZFC and any other of the Oceania local competition. That is a given. It's like comparing the top Wales competition to EPL. There is a huge gap inbetween. If you compare SPL to EPL, you may have a case for Celtic and Rangers (who btw wanted to enter into the EPL but can't, Although I can't see why they can't enter their reserve team into the lower divisions to climb up into the EPL, but thats another story) But NZFC clubs is not professional but semi-professional and so it is obvious that there is a gap in the competitiveness.

P.S. News, weren't you warn to keep out of it?AllWhitebelievr2008-02-01 16:57:43
Permalink Permalink
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
AllWhitebelievr wrote:
It does have everything to do with NZ and if NZ is strong and so would the Phoenix. Phoenix was created for the benefit of NZ football and in getting a higher standard of football in the country as a player pathway. so they are honouring that agreement they have to NZF, since NZF was heavily invoved with the negotations to sub-let the licence. Rememder NZF has the licence and the Phoenix are being sub-let with that licence, so the NZF are there licencee and they are sub-licencee and the FFA are the licence provider to their A-league.


it also reflects bad for NZFC clubs especially we are looking for a second full time professional franhise in the A-league. If its bad for NZFC clubs then it is bad for our player recruitment for the Phoenix in the A-league. NZFC players need experience against harder teams whether it is one of the CWC teams or the Phoenix. It also helps to recognise players that may be able to take the step up by demostrate their abilities against the Phoenix.

FFA has given a licence to an oceania country which happens to be NZF and NZF sub-let it to one of oceania clubs which happens to be the Phoenix and not Auckland city nor Youngheart manawatu. So Phoenix is an oceania club and is eligliable to be NZF premier club if it is accepted by OFC to bypass OFC competition in light of presented evidence that is good enough to complete against any of the OFC regional champions. Since NZF has award that licence to the best Club available to fit all the criteria, then that is very much evidence in itself that NZF regards the Phoenix are their best club to take the licence and not any of the NZFC club (who didn't bothered to apply for the sub-licence, mind you.)

P.S. News, weren't you warn to keep out of it?
 

I don't know the "ins and outs" of the NZ football set up but isn't awarding the place to the Phoenix a kick in the teeth to every club playing in the domestic league? 

 

Every year one of the minnow clubs of the Welsh FA play in the qualifying rounds of the European cup on the qualification basis of the domestic league.  Cardiff however are arguably the best Welsh side, however they play in the English FA league.  Are you suggesting Cardiff should be able to play in Europe under the Welsh FA?

 
 
Permalink Permalink
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Are you suggesting we let OFC die in the minds of FIFA?
Yes it would be terribly unfair on the NZFC teams but this is about securing a place in the CWC for the OFC. FIFA doesn't care much about this part of the world because the standards are poor, especially in club football. Having the Phoenix involved in the O-League will most likely spur other clubs on.

The fact is the CL is a huge tournament and Wales don't make a splash but CWC is a very small tournament and having an Amateur or Semi-Pro team involved provides a glaring hole in the standard of Oceanian football. I see this as a temporary measure until Oceanian club football improves or the FFA lets the Nix play in the ACC.

I'm sick of people using the reasoning that the Nix can't play in the O-League because the A-League is an AFC competition. Well the FFA won't let them play in it because they're from another, OFC nation. Surely we all want the Nix to play in a continental competition and the O-League is the only one that will have us.
Permalink Permalink
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

So if NZF hold the licence and sub lease it to the Phoenix, does that mean that at the end of next season after Barbarouses slashes the A-League to bits, gets signed to Manchester United then does the multi million pound transfer fee go to NZF and not the Phoenix?

Permalink Permalink
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ronaldunno wrote:

So if NZF hold the licence and sub lease it to the Phoenix, does that mean that at the end of next season after Barbarouses slashes the A-League to bits, gets signed to Manchester United then does the multi million pound transfer fee go to NZF and not the Phoenix?



No NZF is not a club they are the administrative licenee holders. Training compensation goes to Phoenix for football development but a % between the phoenix and NZF maybe due to the professional players association rather. That is an independent contract.
Permalink Permalink
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Critical_Lemon wrote:
Are you suggesting we let OFC die in the minds of FIFA?
Yes it would be terribly unfair on the NZFC teams but this is about securing a place in the CWC for the OFC. FIFA doesn't care much about this part of the world because the standards are poor, especially in club football. Having the Phoenix involved in the O-League will most likely spur other clubs on.

The fact is the CL is a huge tournament and Wales don't make a splash but CWC is a very small tournament and having an Amateur or Semi-Pro team involved provides a glaring hole in the standard of Oceanian football. I see this as a temporary measure until Oceanian club football improves or the FFA lets the Nix play in the ACC.

I'm sick of people using the reasoning that the Nix can't play in the O-League because the A-League is an AFC competition. Well the FFA won't let them play in it because they're from another, OFC nation. Surely we all want the Nix to play in a continental competition and the O-League is the only one that will have us.
 
Send the Phoenix and all you're doing is papering over the cracks of NZ football.
Permalink Permalink
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i dont why people are arguing?

The Phoenix arn't allowed into the Asian Cup because they are not an asain team.

Therefore let them into the O league. EASY

Also i don't think anyone is thinking that they would get automatic entry to the club champs without a playoff. They would still have to play off with the top two O League teams!

This would mean the best team in the area ends up going, and raises the standard and competition in the O League above that of the NZFC.

If a NZFC team (or island team) did win the O League with the phoenix in it they would be better prepared for the club champs.

Giving the current O League teams tougher matches before the head to the club champs would only be of benefit. This would also eventually raise the standard of the NZFC as well.





hockeycam2008-02-01 20:00:34
Permalink Permalink
about 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
danielsleftball wrote:


I don't know the "ins and outs" of the NZ football set up but isn't awarding the place a kick in the teeth to every club playing in the domestic league?�
Every year one of the minnow clubs of the Welsh FA play in the qualifying rounds of the European cup on the qualification basis of the domestic league.�Cardiff however are arguably the best Welsh side, however they play in the English FA league.� Are you suggesting should be able to play in�under the Welsh FA?


Well that's the Welsh FA problem.

If there is a playoff trophy between the Welsh domestic competition winner and the highest placed Welsh Team e.g. Cardiff, in the English FA League to determine their Welsh Champion to represent the Welsh FA and if they that fine with the UEFA, then that's all fine for them. If they haven't explored that why should that be our problem?

We got OFC and NZF blessings.

Plus that fact we are talking about the representing OFC and not losing a place in the CWC. Not a problem that UEFA is having to bear.AllWhitebelievr2008-02-01 21:03:43
Permalink Permalink