Huawei Wellington United Phoenix Academy Football School of Excellence - WeeNix

Tegal
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Uncloz,your doing more harm to the NZFC crowds than the phoenix are,youve put 2 of your own fans off ever bothering to go to another game and join you guys on this forum alone. Your giving a bad impression of yourselves,how is that promoting the game? I suggest you take a hard look in the mirror.
 
Im with Smithy on advertising at the stadium,it HAS to happen. The timing of the seasons overlap better than at club level,and it introduces a whole bunch of people who may not even know about TW,but are clearly into football. They then know about the game,and maybe head along if theyre free on a sunday afternoon. Perhaps give out free ticket vouchers at the game even. The phoenix would be keen,just got to get the stadium on your side.
 
Season passes are also another good option. Sell them at the end of the club winter season,comeplete with a set of fixtures on them. That way people will be reminded of it all summer as it is in their wallet,and will be more likely to go as they paid for it. If you sell 100 across all clubs,then it significantly increases attendance as it stands now.
 
SOMETHING has to be done. Playing the blame game and abusing supporters who cant turn up for legitimate reasons isnt the solution.
Opinion Privileges revoked
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In my experience, mean people create their own personal hell to live in. I don't think, for example, that uncloz particularly wants to live in a world full of bitterness and negativity, where everyone's out to get him and his team, but he seems determined to pump out more and more negativity. Well, it's every man's right to live with his head where the sun don't shine, but you'll forgive me if I don't take their opinions about the weather seriously.

That said, the ACFC fans I met at the 2007 NZFC final were pretty cool, so uncloz must not have been one of them. If there are ACFC fans here who don't have anything to do with the particular stream of bitterness on this forum, PM me and maybe we'll go to Kiwitea St together sometime.Doloras2010-02-24 13:23:27
Opinion Privileges revoked
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Junior82 wrote:
Doloras - just move down to Wgtn.


Wellingtonian born and bred, actually, but I can't get work in my field in the hometown.
Must try harder
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If youve read carefully Ill take issue with the term ; another....

Except noone knows when the bloody games are on, until 5 minutes before the season starts, and then it all gets turned sideways depending on the OFC / WCCC

Indeed if TW sold a 100 season tickets itd be about a 48% increase , how many would it be if they sold 75 ?
Must try harder
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Doloras wrote:
Junior82 wrote:
Doloras - just move down to Wgtn.


Wellingtonian born and bred, actually, but I can't get work in my field in the hometown.



No scarecrows in near vicinity ?
Tegal
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uncloz wrote:
If youve read carefully Ill take issue with the term ; another....

Except noone knows when the bloody games are on, until 5 minutes before the season starts, and then it all gets turned sideways depending on the OFC / WCCC

Indeed if TW sold a 100 season tickets itd be about a 48% increase , how many would it be if they sold 75 ?
Well then they need a more solid fixture list,so its more reliable to people. The games arent marketed,and the fixture list on the season pass is the most effective way to get it to people. If it werent for this forum i wouldnt know when TW games are for example. There is just zero marketing of the competition,or if there is it isnt very effective.
Stage Punch
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Tegal wrote:
Well then they need a more solid fixture list,so its more reliable to people.[/quote]
 
This is a very good point.  Very hard to promote your upcoming season of games if the fixture list is always changing.
 
[quote=Tegal]The games arent marketed,and the fixture list on the season pass is the most effective way to get it to people. If it werent for this forum i wouldnt know when TW games are for example. There is just zero marketing of the competition,or if there is it isnt very effective.
 
Two issues there - one is at NZF level in the sense that each Franchise pays their fee and NZF say "we'll take care of marketing as part of that fee" (which I believe they do although I could be wrong).
 
But the other is at the next level down.  For example TW have half a dozen employees including a full time coach, a general manager, an assistant general manager and a media officer.
 
Yet to the best of my knowledge they have not done a single piece of marketing all season.
 
I bet other franchises are the same.  Spending a lot of time complaining about the prominence (or lack of it) of the competition and the sizes of their crowds but doing sweet f*ck all to connect to the public and encourage them to come along and watch.
Blue Cod
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el grapadura wrote:
Bluemagic wrote:
 

Last weekend's Auckland City vs Canterbury United match was a cracker. Aaron Clapham had a stand-out game and should be in the Phoenix.
 

 


There you go again - he was training with with the Phoenix only a few weeks back. I watched that same player play for the Phoenix in a reserve game not so long ago, and he got a full 90. Played out of position in the first half, and struggled mightily. Looked a bit better in the second half (when wholesale changes were made on both sides), but my overall impression was well short of A-league standard at this stage.

 
That's probably why Aaron Clapham decided not to go to the Victorian State League until after the NZFC so he can keep on Ricky's radar playing out the rest of the NZFC season. I really don't think you can judge him on one out-of-position performance.
 
But realistically, what are the chances of any NZFC player getting to step up to actual game time for the Phoenix now? The way things are structured not very good. Unless McKain, Durante and Reddy get picked up by other A league sides next season there aren't going to be any real openings in the starting XI are there? I think Paston is going to struggle to get game time if Reddy stays. Who would want to break up such a winning side? Only Lochead and Brown are guaranteed starting games. 
 
In a funny sort of way this tremendous playoff success only serves to highlight the issues at stake. What say you win the A League? You can't profit from it financially, you can't play in the Asian competition and you can't have a youth development side. You could well have the biggest crowd of the season, which is quite staggering, and NZ football is left with only a few coins in its tin cup.
Tegal
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Be like Siggy. Come into the squad,work hard,earn your first team place. Just dont then go punching up oppisition strikers,getting suspended then losing said starting spot.
 
Theyve got to work hard and impress to get there bluemagic. Like any player. Take Manny Muscat as a VPL example if it helps you see that am not just singling out the NZFC here.
 
Though yes a youth/reserve side for them to play in would help a lot,the phoenix are still a positive way for them to get noticed and step up into an A league environment. So i dont understand how your stating the entire club as a bad thing.
Tegal2010-02-24 13:49:19
Blue Cod
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Smithy wrote:
Tegal wrote:
Well then they need a more solid fixture list,so its more reliable to people.[/quote]
 
This is a very good point.  Very hard to promote your upcoming season of games if the fixture list is always changing.
 
[quote=Tegal]The games arent marketed,and the fixture list on the season pass is the most effective way to get it to people. If it werent for this forum i wouldnt know when TW games are for example. There is just zero marketing of the competition,or if there is it isnt very effective.
 
Two issues there - one is at NZF level in the sense that each Franchise pays their fee and NZF say "we'll take care of marketing as part of that fee" (which I believe they do although I could be wrong).
 
But the other is at the next level down.  For example TW have half a dozen employees including a full time coach, a general manager, an assistant general manager and a media officer.
 
Yet to the best of my knowledge they have not done a single piece of marketing all season.
 
I bet other franchises are the same.  Spending a lot of time complaining about the prominence (or lack of it) of the competition and the sizes of their crowds but doing sweet f*ck all to connect to the public and encourage them to come along and watch.
 
You're so right, there's far too much of a 'just put it out there and people will come' attitude in the NZFC. The Phoenix show that up by the fantastic way they've been able to market a product and get crowds along. I guess football is just another form of entertainment and has to be properly marketed in a crowded field of options. We can no longer rely on enough die-hard football supporters turning up to make the NZFC viable.
 
I note a newpaper columnist refers to the Phoenix as being the current 'top of the pops'. That about sums it up. Who are all these thousands of new fans who are turning up? They're  not turning up for the Nix regular season games and certainly not for NZFC games. Why now? They're not real football supporters to me and most of them will disappear as quickly as they have arrived. They follow the hype, they follow what's shiny and deemed the latest excitement. I'd love to be proved wrong and have this as a new dawn for NZ football generating lots of interest in the local game but the veteran in me doesn't see it. There has been wonderful growth in the playing side of the game here, but other than the All Whites and Nix, spectator interest in the lcoal game is at a real low.
 
Free entrance has been tried, with little success at Manawatu and Waikato. I'm all for students being free but isn't not charging even a mere $10 an admission of failure. They currently only charge $5 at Waikato and are lucky to get 150 at home games.
 
We're wracking our brains at ACFC trying to come up with ways to get new spectators through the gate but it's hard. We're the most successful NZ club and yet we struggle to get interest. As for television, forget it, unless it's the final. Triangle have been wonderful with their O League game coverage, and all due respect, but few people watch them.
 
 
First Team Squad
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"We can no longer rely on enough die-hard football supporters turning up to make the NZFC viable."

Genuine question - could we ever?  If not the NZFC then the various previous incarnations...
Must try harder
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well ... yes   , for those that know their history....
Stage Punch
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NOT a thread for historical comparisons thanks.
 
The point is that there isn't sufficient crowd at present and what can we do about it.
Stage Punch
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Bluemagic wrote:
 
I note a newpaper columnist refers to the Phoenix as being the current 'top of the pops'. That about sums it up. Who are all these thousands of new fans who are turning up? They're  not turning up for the Nix regular season games and certainly not for NZFC games. Why now? They're not real football supporters to me and most of them will disappear as quickly as they have arrived.
 
Far too much "we're doomed" in this for me.
 
Think about it like this.
 
Before the Bahrain game, would we have sold out a Nix semi final?  Doubtful I reckon.
 
Football is now more on the casual fan's entertainment radar than it ever has been in this country.
 
Of course we're not going to get 25,000 to Farrington Field next weekend.  That's ridiculous.  But some well placed advertising off the back of the Newcastle game could see TW get their biggest crowd ever.
 
Why isn't that someone's target?  Never mind converting tens of thousands to the NZFC, let's just try and convert tens of tens first.  That'll do for starters.
 
Your last sentence smacks of a counterproductive arrogance to be honest.  A sense of "you're not as cool as me and you never will be" that I have absolutely no time for.
Woof Woof
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Bluemagic wrote:
But realistically, what are the chances of any NZFC player getting to step up to actual game time for the Phoenix now?�The way things are structured not very good. Unless McKain, Durante and Reddy get picked up by other A league sides next season there aren't going to be any real openings in the starting XI are there? I think Paston is going to struggle to get game time if Reddy stays. Who would want to break up such a winning side? Only Lochead and Brown are guaranteed starting games.�



I know this is off-topic, but I have to say something here - you can't seriously expect players coming from a lower, amateur level of competition to simply waltz in a first XI of a professional football team. They have to demonstrate that they're capable of making that step up when given the opportunity - Siggy took it with both hands. Other have been looked at and fell short of the standard required, but the door's not closed for them. The Phoenix have given opportunities to NZFC and youth players to train with them and play in reserve games, and it's up to the players to show they can perform at a higher level, and not up to the Phoenix to sign them up just because they're Kiwis.

Hopefully one day Phoenix will be able to have a squad full of quality players from NZ, but we're still some way from that.
Blue Cod
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Smithy wrote:
Bluemagic wrote:
 
I note a newpaper columnist refers to the Phoenix as being the current 'top of the pops'. That about sums it up. Who are all these thousands of new fans who are turning up? They're  not turning up for the Nix regular season games and certainly not for NZFC games. Why now? They're not real football supporters to me and most of them will disappear as quickly as they have arrived.
 
Far too much "we're doomed" in this for me.
 
Think about it like this.
 
Before the Bahrain game, would we have sold out a Nix semi final?  Doubtful I reckon.
 
Football is now more on the casual fan's entertainment radar than it ever has been in this country.
 
Of course we're not going to get 25,000 to Farrington Field next weekend.  That's ridiculous.  But some well placed advertising off the back of the Newcastle game could see TW get their biggest crowd ever.
 
Why isn't that someone's target?  Never mind converting tens of thousands to the NZFC, let's just try and convert tens of tens first.  That'll do for starters.
 
Your last sentence smacks of a counterproductive arrogance to be honest.  A sense of "you're not as cool as me and you never will be" that I have absolutely no time for.
 
Fair point, maybe I am being a bit too gloomy and should see anyone watching football in this country as a good thing, whoever they're watching. I don't agree with your last jibe however.  I just can't help seeing a disconnect between all this A League excitement and the reality for the local players and the NZFC. I remember the heyday of the National League when it was launched in the late 70s with so much hope and interest and to be honest only ACFC comes anywhere near capturing that excitement now.
 
I'll be going to Waikato to watch them play TW this weekend out of interest but I bet there won't be many there. Watch out for the dreadful pitch, no covered stand and Che Bunce kicking lumps out of the TW forwards. To tell you the truth standing in a friggin' paddock with a hundred others watching what's meant to be our premier local competition is depressing. I'm going because I think TW have a bloody good side and are worth the effort. 
Blue Cod
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Addicks wrote:

"We can no longer rely on enough die-hard football supporters turning up to make the NZFC viable."

Genuine question - could we ever?  If not the NZFC then the various previous incarnations...
 
Yes, once our premier national league sides like Mt Wellington, Christchurch United and Napier City Rovers could count on lots of supporters. I can remember crowds of two or three thousand at games. Now it's a 10th of that.
Blue Cod
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Arsenal wrote:
Bluemagic wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
Have NZFC crowds dropped?

 

 I guess you wouldn't know Syd, you haven't been to Kiwitea Street for a few years.


wat
 
 Ooops, sorry Arsenal, I was blindsided by the badge and thought you were Buffon II.
Trialist
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I recall going to Palmie pre-season to watch the Nix play Manawatu NZFC team. There was a good crowd there and probably the best Manawatu have had to a game for a while !!!
 
The Manawatu players will have known the crowd was mainly there to see the Nix players but like any entertainer wold have been bouyed by playing to this larger audience.
 
If the Nix are the 'top of the pops' use them to help promote the game at NZFC - Let them have a reserve team in the NZFC (with conditions of not being able to go club champs, take winning $ etc) everyone wins... I am sure Tony Pignata would gladly give up a couple of the Nix entry $$ to them for home games ie $1 of the entry fee goes to the NZFC team- based on average crowd size of 8,000 would be $8,000  - I am sure this is better revenue than they are getting from sharing half of 175 people at $10 each ($875) !! Even if they gave up 50c of ticket price they would return $4,000 and sure Nix save as compared to being in youth competition !!!
 
Who wins - EVERYONE including the fringe Nix players getting more game time, spectators getting curtain raiser value for money, .....the list goes on. I would be happier going along early to watch the curtain raiser at the same venue than giving up 2 periods in my weekend thats for sure.
I-C-Red Devils2010-02-24 17:46:54
Life and death
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Bluemagic wrote:
Who are all these thousands of new fans who are turning up? They're  not turning up for the Nix regular season games and certainly not for NZFC games. Why now? They're not real football supporters to me and most of them will disappear as quickly as they have arrived.  
They are people that want to be entertained and at the moment the Nix are providing that. I like Robert de Niro and watch anything he is in, I don't dispair when tons of people go and watch him when he is in a big movie, just because I have sat through a few of his duds.
Must try harder
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Yes tho next month theyll all be watching Leonard De Caprio , in something else ...[ or like Deloras waiting till it comes out on DVD and borrowing it from a friend* ]






Its OK Del , even I dont beleive you have friends...
Tegal
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Abusing forum members AND hijacking many threads. Ban yet?
Jag
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Tegal wrote:
Abusing forum members AND hijacking many threads. Ban yet?

^^ This.

YF Spend Up
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Jag wrote:

Tegal wrote:
Abusing forum members AND hijacking many threads. Ban yet?

^^ This.

 
Done.
Starting XI
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Starting XI
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A bit of a shame. He's much less smug and verbose than Bluetragic and a lot more witty.
Opinion Privileges revoked
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Yeah, but Bluemagic doesn't actively and singlehandedly sabotage NZ football by telling people they're not cool enough to support ACFC.
Stage Punch
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A bit unfortunate - I suspect it'll be a badge of honour for him on the Auckland City forums. But it does make my life a lot happier. So f**k him.

Bluemagic is at least intelligent enough to have a debate (sometimes). That's enough to give him a lot of latitude with me.

Trialist
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Yeehah ...


http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/3387084/Wellington-Phoenix-10-year-licence-gets-nod

With the news of the FFA supporting a Nix 10 year licence we have Ricki going to press stating the NZF need to get Fifa over the line with a reserve team being in the NZFC.

The stars are starting to line up to give a good outcome (10 year licence, resrve team) - now let them do so on this Sunday as well 
Opinion Privileges revoked
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Interesting that Ricki seems to be losing patience with NZF on this matter:

Phoenix coach Ricki Herbert has called for New Zealand Football to do everything possible to ensure the club has a reserve team ready for the next New Zealand Football Championship season.

It needed to push the issue of a reserve team with Fifa, to ensure young Kiwis were not forced to go overseas to play professionally.

A prime example is New Zealand age-group star Costa Barbarouses, who after three seasons with the Phoenix has signed for Brisbane because of a lack of game time.

"I can't help but feel extremely disappointed that, internally, we're not doing anything as far as an invitation of a second team into the NZFC," Herbert said. "I just think it's incredibly disappointing that we have a player like Costa who has to leave our shores because we can't play him anywhere.

"That's just wrong, in anybody's mind. It's wrong. What's the point of me signing young New Zealand players?"


(source)
Still Believin'
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Smithy wrote:

Bluemagic is at least intelligent enough to have a debate (sometimes). That's enough to give him a lot of latitude with me.

 
In this forum he generally behaves himself but he showed his true colours recently on the ACFC forum when they were all picking on that poor french lad just trying to ask a few questions.
 
It's off topic for here but if you want to read what he really thinks about the Phoenix and Yellow Fever follow the link...
 
 
He's the one posting as Haywardovich by the way.
terminator_x2010-03-01 13:23:51
Legend
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Auckland eh?
 
City of honest Kiwis....
 
(Insecure much?)
Junior822010-03-01 13:26:18
Opinion Privileges revoked
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I like the implied racism towards Terry S being Greek, in particular. I also want to know how ACFC - a franchise cooked up by NZ Football in 2004 - is more "real" than the Phoenix. Now if Hayward were a Manurewa AFC or East Coast Bays diehard, he would be still wrong, but at least principled.

As for rich man's toys - let's put it this way. If some, say, Croatian millionaire in Auckland sunk a few million into ACFC and offered to take them into the A-League, would the knitting circle say no?Doloras2010-03-01 13:33:22
Still Believin'
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We should stay on topic here but there is a thread already running about Lucarne's questions and the reaction he got from the Auckland branch of the Flat Earth Society.
 
 
Trialist
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Smithy wrote:
NOT a thread for historical comparisons thanks.
 
The point is that there isn't sufficient crowd at present and what can we do about it.
  Speaking from a purely personal point of view, and as an inaugural Phoenix season ticket holder, most of the games played by Team Wellington seem to be played at Newtown Park. Coming from north of Paraparumu it just isn't practical for me to atttend . One thing which makes the Phoenix games more attractive is that the location of the ROF is very much easier to access than Newtown park.   The ROF is ideally placed for the Wellington sports public, so I'd suggest that TW find a ground nearer the Railway Station or at least one less inconvenient for the general public than Newtown Park.
Early retirement
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Suggestions ?

You need a football ground with seating and facilities up a certain level.  Outside Newtown you have Porirua - much worse to get to and possibly Memorial in Petone which may not do facilities up to standard and again is fine for those in the Hutt, but anywhere else ?

The next game is at Farrinbgton Field.  Come and try finding a car park there.

I honestly can't see any other options..
Starting XI
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Just wondering where an Nix reserve team would play. Don't think Westpax Stadium would be an option. Newtown is used by TW. That leaves Porirua Park, Farrington Field and Petone Memorial. Maybe TW moved to Petone memorial and upgrade the No1 pitch with a decent surround and stand and Nix ressies play on Newtown.
Thoughts (like I need to ask)
Tegal Fan Club Member #3
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How is it decided who plays where? Do the teams pay rent?

 
 
Scottishbhoy2010-03-01 14:07:00
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Scottishbhoy wrote:
How is it decided who plays where? Do the teams pay rent?


I would think so, unless there is an engagement with the council where they operate as sponsors of the side.

Toffee, I imagine they'll both play out of Newtown and just do week about.  Think Bubbles and United.


Huawei Wellington United Phoenix Academy Football School of Excellence - WeeNix

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