Wellington Phoenix Men

Player rantings v Heart

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Player rantings v Heart

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
FFS Dominate a game for an hour, lose it... sheesh
 
Vuka 7.5 A couple of top saves. Should he have nabbed that cross that Aloisi scored from?
Siggy 6 Did well, a bit ragged at times
Dura 6.5 Some excellent work but got sloppy late
North 5 Was he on the pitch?
Lochie 5.5 Some good tackles, looked like he picked up an injury
Manny 6 Worked hard
Timmy 7 Well taken goal, always looking to make things happen
Ward 5 Good first half but gave away the second goal. Doesn't he know not to f*ck around with the ball in his defensive third?
Leo 5.5 A few good late crosses made up for nothing much else happening
Ifill 5.5 One super cross for the goal, wrong options too many times
Greenie 5.5 Ran and ran, should have scored, but the defender did well
Daniel Didn't get far enough forward
Big Mac A few touches
Troy Hmmm ran
 
Disappointing
What do you think?

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
drop everyone to a 1 (gotta give them credit for putting on their boots) except Vuka and muscat.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Disappointing, but not disgraceful. Not great though when your keeper is the best player on the park.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Best rating of the night goes to the Yellow Fever boys who outsang the locals. Awesome! 

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'll go along with Oi Oi, except:
 
Bertos goes up to 6 - very lively in the last quarter of the game. While sloppy at times, was beating players and creating things.
Brown down to 5.5 - not very good, but scored a goal.
 
Manny and Leo were better than Brown.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Best rating of the night goes to the Yellow Fever boys who outsang the locals. Awesome! 
 
HECK YES
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Vuka 8: Strong performance, didn't think he could have done anything different to stop those 2 goals. 
Siggy 7 Usual determined performance, started well with that run down the right.
Dura 7 Solid
North 7 Solid also, obviously not a flashy player and that makes 3 across the back that I am happy with.
Lochie 5 Going with 5 because he didn't really stand out for me.
Manny 8 Worked very hard, workhorse. 
Brown 7 Good goal, seems to be getting back to his old form pre injury.
Ward 6 Might be a bit generous here but I like his work rate and some of the good little things he does, but some of those passes to the opposition were shockers and he needs to get that out of his game if he is going to stay in the starting XI.
Leo 7 He was pretty sharp in those last 20 minutes, if he carries on like that then I am happy, but if he doesn't maintain that consistency, he needs to be dropped long term.
Ifill 6 Agree on the one super cross for the goal, otherwise he was poor. If he wasn't our marquee, then he shouldn't be on the pitch next week on today's form.
Greenie 5 I'm still up and down on him, I really think he should have scored - although the Aloisi goal was slightly different, that is the difference between a class striker and a journeyman.
Daniel 6 Not much time on the field but was busy and looked to want to achieve something. Should start over Bertos or even Ifill.
Big Mac 5 Again not much time with his highlight being his hand-ball.
Troy 6 Because I thought he looked to get involved, but now drop him to 5.5 because he is a 1 footed player and shoudl have shot with his right when he had the chance.
 
Ricki - no score but I think he chose the best starting line-up based on the Victory game and who he had with him. I would be keen to see Toto given a starting run and some decent time on the field to see if he can compete at this level or is just a dud and we can forget about him.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Vuka and Manny I feel are the only ones that can hold their heads up
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Only the keeper is worth a decent vote. None of the rest should get more than 4. If they couldn't bury the worst team in the league (Melbourne Heart) then they don't deserve anything better.

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Buffon II wrote:
Disappointing, but not disgraceful. Not great though when your keeper is the best player on the park.
 
Totally agree. The only worse person on the pitch was Peter Green. I'm all for letting a game flow but he made some strange calls even if some were to our advantage. How could he not give Dura a yellow card for a blatant hand ball and Leo's tackle late in the game where he slid in on a Heart players ankle should have been a yellow as well.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I always get a good laugh every week when the player who scores a goal gets top rating.
Perhaps the rest of the game does not matter to some people.
Tim was not even close today.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mossy wrote:

Only the keeper is worth a decent vote. None of the rest should get more than 4. If they couldn't bury the worst team in the league (Melbourne Heart) then they don't deserve anything better.



I don't think they are the worst team in the league. Today they played some good football.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Vuckovic 7 - no chance with goals, some decent claims and great save from header
Sigmund 6 - not too bad but some woeful crossing again, out of position a few times
Durante 7 - usual
North 6 - didn't really see that much of him, hard to actually comment!
Lochhead 5 - not great, gave ball away and had players going past him like he wasn't there.
Muscat 6 - tried hard, won a few tackles
Brown 6 - scored a goal but posted missing half the game again
Ward 5 - terrible touch all day, woeful for second goal
Bertos 4 - how he starts almost every week is beyond me, needs about 15 attempted crosses before he gets one right
Ifill 3 - good cross for the goal, otherwise utterly abysmal. Caught in possession 99% of the time, barely looked interested.
Greenacre 7 - actually was doing ok, inexplicably taken off
 
Subs
 
Hearfield 2 - just crap
McAllister 3 - never really did anything
Daniel 3 - should've started ahead of Bertos
 
Overall, were decent in the first half, but just shocking in the second, save for a half decent 10 minutes around the goal.
 
Can anyone tell me how many away wins Ricki has presided over in his career? Is it even double figures? 1 point out of 12 on the road so far this season. Crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Vuka 8: Strong performance, didn't think he could have done anything different to stop those 2 goals. 
Siggy 7 Usual determined performance, started well with that run down the right.
Dura 7 Solid
North 7 Solid also, obviously not a flashy player and that makes 3 across the back that I am happy with.
Lochie 5 Going with 5 because he didn't really stand out for me.
Manny 8 Worked very hard, workhorse. 
Brown 7 Good goal, seems to be getting back to his old form pre injury.
Ward 6 Might be a bit generous here but I like his work rate and some of the good little things he does, but some of those passes to the opposition were shockers and he needs to get that out of his game if he is going to stay in the starting XI.
Leo 7 He was pretty sharp in those last 20 minutes, if he carries on like that then I am happy, but if he doesn't maintain that consistency, he needs to be dropped long term.
Ifill 6 Agree on the one super cross for the goal, otherwise he was poor. If he wasn't our marquee, then he shouldn't be on the pitch next week on today's form.
Greenie 5 I'm still up and down on him, I really think he should have scored - although the Aloisi goal was slightly different, that is the difference between a class striker and a journeyman.
Daniel 6 Not much time on the field but was busy and looked to want to achieve something. Should start over Bertos or even Ifill.
Big Mac 5 Again not much time with his highlight being his hand-ball.
Troy 6 Because I thought he looked to get involved, but now drop him to 5.5 because he is a 1 footed player and shoudl have shot with his right when he had the chance.
 
Ricki - no score but I think he chose the best starting line-up based on the Victory game and who he had with him. I would be keen to see Toto given a starting run and some decent time on the field to see if he can compete at this level or is just a dud and we can forget about him.
in general these are just too high, how did brown get 7 for touching the ball twice?
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lochhead: 1/2

Worst performance ever by him tonight, got constantly screwed and was responsible for letting through his attacker who set up the first goal.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Vuckovic 7 - no chance with goals, some decent claims and great save from header
Sigmund 6 - not too bad but some woeful crossing again, out of position a few times
Durante 7 - usual
North 6 - didn't really see that much of him, hard to actually comment!
Lochhead 5 - not great, gave ball away and had players going past him like he wasn't there.
Muscat 6 - tried hard, won a few tackles
Brown 6 - scored a goal but posted missing half the game again
Ward 5 - terrible touch all day, woeful for second goal
Bertos 4 - how he starts almost every week is beyond me, needs about 15 attempted crosses before he gets one right
Ifill 3 - good cross for the goal, otherwise utterly abysmal. Caught in possession 99% of the time, barely looked interested.
Greenacre 7 - actually was doing ok, inexplicably taken off
 
Subs
 
Hearfield 2 - just crap
McAllister 3 - never really did anything
Daniel 3 - should've started ahead of Bertos
 
Totally agree but would have given Manny a 7. Also agree with your Greenacre comment and glad to see someone else thought Bertos was crap today. As much as I love Iffy, he was terrible today.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
in general these are just too high, how did brown get 7 for touching the ball twice?
They may seem high to you but they are a reflection of my glass half-full attitude at the moment. Brown gets an inflated score because he scored a goal and a well taken one at that. Otherwise it might have been closer to a 6.
 
I'm dissappointed in the loss but it was their 3rd game in a week and that must have made them a little blunter than usual. I also remember the start of last season and how I got carried away with their poor form and we know how the season turned out don't we?
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm dissappointed in the loss but it was their 3rd game in a week and that must have made them a little blunter than usual. I also remember the start of last season and how I got carried away with their poor form and we know how the season turned out don't we?
yeh
plenty of time, long season, tough week
i wonder how many of them have been waking up at 4 or 5am every morning this week since they got there
 
but they will need to sort out how to take advantage of ifill getting double teamed
he's being made to look ordinary at the moment
 
am still struggling to like greenacre alone up front, but we'll see
mjp22010-09-19 20:23:39
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Our travelling fans deserve a 10/10  great effort by them
Pity the team let them down
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Today's effort by the regular starters (e.g. Greenacre who looked off his game) might mean Pavlovic sees a bit more game-time. I hope so anyway - Pavlovic looked good when he came on against the Victory last Wednesday.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Leggy wrote:
Mossy wrote:

Only the keeper is worth a decent vote. None of the rest should get more than 4. If they couldn't bury the worst team in the league (Melbourne Heart) then they don't deserve anything better.



I don't think they are the worst team in the league. Today they played some good football.
 
That was more a case of a game we lost, not a game they won. They were there for the taking, they only played 'decent football' when we let them, they were pathetic in the first half (when we should have buried them) and panicked after we scored. Having said that though, we were worse. I almost put a mug through my 42 inch LCD.. I was that frustrated!
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
mjp2 wrote:
I'm dissappointed in the loss but it was their 3rd game in a week and that must have made them a little blunter than usual. I also remember the start of last season and how I got carried away with their poor form and we know how the season turned out don't we?
yeh
plenty of time, long season, tough week
i wonder how many of them have been waking up at 4 or 5am every morning this week since they got there
 
but they will need to sort out how to take advantage of ifill getting double teamed
he's being made to look ordinary at the moment
 
am still struggling to like greenacre alone up front, but we'll see
 
You are seriously trying to say the players were jet lagged? After a 2-3 hour flight, about 6 days ago?
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
OK so I'm going to give this whole 'rantings' thing a  go:

Vukovic: 7: Did well with the shots he could save and was unlucky to concede the two he did, would get a higher rating if he wonder saved their second.

Sigmund: 3.5: Is incredibly good at standing up and blocking players when they run at him, sh*t at everything else.

Dura: 6: Didn't really have a lot to do, but at the end of the day we conceded two and plyed long ball central so anything higher is a bit generous.

North: 6: Exactly as above.

Lochead: 2.5: Can't attack, can't defend, does he even try any more?

Brown: 4: Can't pass, apparently forgot how to tackle.

Ward: 4: Can pass, also can't tackle didn't score, it all evens out.

Muscat: 6:  Basically was holding our team together for large portions of the game, and pretty much one of our best players.

Bertos: 4: If you're lookig for some to slowly dribble towards the opposition defence, then do nothing as they tackle him, this is yr man.

Ifill: 4.5: Mr. Forgetful seems to have forgotten he was our best player... he looked well out of it.

Greenacre: 4: Wasn't really in the game, mainly due to the ineptitude further back. But I would like to see him contest 50-50s more, may have put away that chance in the first half.

Herbert: 2: What was he thinking of with his subs. When yr bossing a game against a team without their regular defenders why would you be so conservative with yr plans? Needs to be more aggressive with his selections and subs and generally more of a proactive manager.


ahhhh... the sweet release of an angst filled post
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Thats not jet lag its just a body clock thing. When I go on leave I still wake up at the same time as if I'm working. Same thing if going to Oz on holiday, wake up at 6am NZ time for the whole 1 or 2 weeks I'm there.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
GenericFan wrote:

Herbert: 2: What was he thinking of with his subs. When yr bossing a game against a team without their regular defenders why would you be so conservative with yr plans? Needs to be more aggressive with his selections and subs and generally more of a proactive manager.
Would you rate RH as a conservative manager then? while I still have a boner over our world cup results, did we ever really push hard for goals during that tournament?
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well the last time I went to Oz for 5 days I certainly didn't wake up at 5am every day after at least a year of getting up at 7am.
 
Also, what time do the players start 'work' each day anyway?
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
why on earth did hearlfield get brought on in a central role??
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
GenericFan wrote:

Herbert: 2: What was he thinking of with his subs. When yr bossing a game against a team without their regular defenders why would you be so conservative with yr plans? Needs to be more aggressive with his selections and subs and generally more of a proactive manager.
Would you rate RH as a conservative manager then? while I still have a boner over our world cup results, did we ever really push hard for goals during that tournament?
 
It's a whole different ball game at international level though, especially when NZ are severe underdogs and keeping the other teams out and hoping to sneak a goal is the best bet. These tactics should NOT be employed by Phoenix, as they do not need to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
GenericFan wrote:

Herbert: 2: What was he thinking of with his subs. When yr bossing a game against a team without their regular defenders why would you be so conservative with yr plans? Needs to be more aggressive with his selections and subs and generally more of a proactive manager.
Would you rate RH as a conservative manager then? while I still have a boner over our world cup results, did we ever really push hard for goals during that tournament?


Yeah no doubt I would say he's conservative, and quite reactive. With the WC we basically had a game plan of defend and play long/diagonal and it worked out quite well, he never really had to change anything and I would say overall we were quite lucky to get the results we did.

In terms of the nix, he barely ever makes early subs even when we are playing sh*t. He also seems to have some favorites like Bertos and Lochead, who have been crap for long periods of time (see majority of last season) and doesn't really drop them.

I mean obvs there some limit to changing it around depending on form in terms of getting a team to gel, but when you have an unchanged line up and are bossing the game but cannot score, why did he not make an 'attacking' substitution til after we conceded? Was he happy with our ineffectual attacks and the quality of attacking possession? Surely not... or he has far lower expectations this season than some of us on here do
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Vukovic - 7 - Can't blame him for either goal.  Some good saves.
Durante - 5 - Average at best, n00b at worst.
North - Didn't see him.
Sigmund - 3 - Terrible.
Ward - 4 - Did his darndest to undo his good work against Sydney.  Effectively set up their second.  Tried to be tricky when he could pass on several occasions and failed hard.
Muscat - 5.5 - Tried, limited success.
Brown - 4.5 - Just dire.  A goal, not even two, can cover how poor he was.
Hearfield - 5.5 - Far from our worst.
Lochhead - 4 - Bad.
Greenacre - 4 - Did nothing.
Ifill - 4.5 - Was fat, useless, and uncreative all match.  Most of that 4.5 is down to his good cross for Brown's goal.
MacAllister - Horribly frustrating to watch.
Daniel - 6 - Actually tried.
Bertos - 6 - Tried, especially later on.

Ricki Herbert - 3 - Dropped the ball horribly.

Easiily one of our worst games.  So poor.  One positive is that we can't get worse.

When is Pavlovic back?  Despite his absence he's still earned himself a start.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Well the last time I went to Oz for 5 days I certainly didn't wake up at 5am every day after at least a year of getting up at 7am.
 
Also, what time do the players start 'work' each day anyway?
 
You're obviously not a finely tuned athlete like Ii am Steve-O
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Well the last time I went to Oz for 5 days I certainly didn't wake up at 5am every day after at least a year of getting up at 7am.
 
Also, what time do the players start 'work' each day anyway?
 
You're obviously not a finely tuned athlete like Ii am Steve-O
 
Well, I can agree with you on that at least

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
why on earth did hearlfield get brought on in a central role??


The subs seemed to reflect panic and the (poor) quality of our off season signings. With Ifill out of form we don't have anyone else to go to on the park. Lots of journeyman like performances, but Manny aside, not a lot of real quality.


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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The whole team looked hungover.Leo and lochead are robots can't get a reaction out of them.they defintley need time on the sideline.I don't know what ifill was on the night before but he looked very rough and rickys subs are bizzare to say the least.hearfield for greenacre...what?
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mossy wrote:
Leggy wrote:
Mossy wrote:

Only the keeper is worth a decent vote. None of the rest should get more than 4. If they couldn't bury the worst team in the league (Melbourne Heart) then they don't deserve anything better.

I don't think they are the worst team in the league. Today they played some good football.

�

That was more a case of a game we lost, not a game they won. They were there for the taking, they only played 'decent football'�when we let them, they were pathetic in the first half (when we should have buried them) and panicked after we scored. Having said that though, we were worse. I almost put a mug through my 42 inch LCD.. I was that frustrated!


That goes for for any team. You are only as good as the opposition lets you.
However, they did look look like they had the ability to knock the ball around.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Thats not jet lag its just a body clock thing. When I go on leave I still wake up at the same time as if I'm working. Same thing if going to Oz on holiday, wake up at 6am NZ time for the whole 1 or 2 weeks I'm there.
What a load of bollox, it was 5.00pm NZ time, it shouldnt make any difference what time they wake up. Stop making excuses, the whole team were sh*te, including RH.
Feel sorry for the travelling fans, they deserve a lot better than the lacklustre performance they gave today.

We're the WELLINGTON Phoenix

And this is our Home

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I wasn't agreeing that it had an effect, I was commenting on what I thought the original point was. I too, think it's bollocks to use anything like this as an excuse.

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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Colvinator wrote:
I'll go along with Oi Oi, except:
 
Bertos goes up to 6 - very lively in the last quarter of the game. While sloppy at times, was beating players and creating things.
Brown down to 5.5 - not very good, but scored a goal.
 
Manny and Leo were better than Brown.

Yeah i agree with this, Bertos did alot and worked pretty hard. Considering hes used to coming off for someone like Daniel pretty much every game i think he did well throughout the full 90. Beat a lot of players, put in a lot of good balls, and got back quickly when Heart were on the counter.
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over 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
AJ13 wrote:
Colvinator wrote:
I'll go along with Oi Oi, except:
 
Bertos goes up to 6 - very lively in the last quarter of the game. While sloppy at times, was beating players and creating things.
Brown down to 5.5 - not very good, but scored a goal.
 
Manny and Leo were better than Brown.

Yeah i agree with this, Bertos did alot and worked pretty hard. Considering hes used to coming off for someone like Daniel pretty much every game i think he did well throughout the full 90. Beat a lot of players, put in a lot of good balls, and got back quickly when Heart were on the counter.
Did you actually watch the first 75 minutes? Agree, Berttos finally came alive in the last 15 mins but up until then he was his usual ineffective self. When was the last time he actually beat a player with pace and sent in a decent cross? He seems to have  no pace off the mark at the moment, defenders just go with him and keep him wide where he may attempt another ineffectual cross. The best we can expect off an attempt at a cross at the moment from Leo is to gain a corner after he cannons it straight into the defender in front of him. He will then usually proceed to deliver yet another awful corner. 
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