Wellington Phoenix Men

Posh and Becks on the rates!!

114 replies · 3,848 views
over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
you all are so funny especially gings, im positive that all your beloved premiership/championship teams have anti-posh and anti-bekham chants
 
as for feminists i dont see why they would not approve of it as victoria bekham does seem to support the whole "barbie" and faulse female image etc which most feminists i know are against - this is a whole nes topic though.
 
i hope people will go and chant, not sit and watch a "superstar" - that would kill the game
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Come on WARZYCHA Beckham has done alot for football and still possesses the skill to walk amoungst the greats.
 
I think wellington should embrace this oppourtunity and watch beckham and the Galaxy play.
 
We started an a-league francise and not even a year later we are having an exibition match against the LA Galaxy. AMAZING.
 
REAL football fans would Embrace it not bag it...
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
WARZYCHA wrote:
I DONT CARE IF ITS BEX or ANYONE, he will walk into our stadium and when he does i will do my best(within NZ standards, i understand we are not in greece) to show him he is not welcome.
[/QUOTE]
 
NZ standards versus Greek standards? Huh? Care to explain that....
 
[QUOTE=WARZYCHA]
please can you rugby fans not ruin our team by dressing up etc. Its good some of you enjoyed the game but please realise that its football not 7s or union. 
 
What? Let the people who want to dress up do so if they want. What's the big deal?
 
It's a bit of a tradition in English football to dress up for the final game of the season - especially if your team has already been relegated.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Uncle Steve No Problem embracing the opportunity to watch Phoenix play Galaxy but i find the insinuation in your post that  that  by criticizing one aspect of the proposed game ie the use of ratepayers money to "entice" Becks and co to come here somehow  means that im not a "REAL football fan"is pathetic  and whats more there a lot of REAL football fans  out there that are also REAL rate payers and REAL voters that inspite of the obvious joy and euphoria since Sunday still have the common sense to look at the councils proposed use of funds for this venture in a critical and objective way!
So forget the hes not a fan cause he isnt towing the line on what i believe angle cause its bullsh*t mate ,i have supported my football club Heart Of Midlothian FC through thin and often thinner since i can remember and played the the beautiful game in what can only be described as a less than beautiful way since i first discovered my two left feet!!



uncle steve wrote:
Come on WARZYCHA Beckham has done alot for football and still possesses the skill to walk amoungst the greats.
 
I think wellington should embrace this oppourtunity and watch beckham and the Galaxy play.
 
We started an a-league francise and not even a year later we are having an exibition match against the LA Galaxy. AMAZING.
 
REAL football fans would Embrace it not bag it...
 
Kiwi Jambo2007-08-30 16:52:40

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Kiwi Jambo - I thought uncle steve was questioning WARZYCHA's assertion that "Beckham or anyone is not welcome". I didn't read any criticism of your concerns over the use of public funds. uncle steve?

I'm not keen on the idea of rates, but for me it's a question of scale i.e. how much relative to all the other stuff they fund?

If the game goes ahead, I'll probably be there but for the same reason I went to the pre-season matches. The inclusion of Beckham makes no difference. If he comes, of course he's welcome - like all opponents are welcome to come play, though the result means nothing to anything important... not like we will get to enjoy bragging rights over LA.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Beckham can afford to pay for himself, chuffing money grabber!
 
Why tax the poor to pay for "the matchstick minger" to get more clothes & publicity.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Kiwi Jambo wrote:
Im dry retching already at the thought of Prendergast and Posh holding up a Phoenix scarf on the front page of the Dom Post.
Prendergast is so obviously jumping on the bandwagon for political gain and the means of doing this is by secretly spending other peoples money ,do you agree with the lack of disclosure Uber?
One of the richest sportsmen on the planet will play football for a club owned by one of the richest men in Wellington and heres the punch line the council are going to help pay for it ,hilarious
Hope people will find the 30% rates increase thats on the cards as easy to swallow as this  and as a side issue do you think the council should be turning down funding for events like the dragon boating festival but still find money for Beckham and co which one benefits the community more in the long run ?
 
Where do you get the 30% increase in rates from Jambo?
 
I am under the impresssion that the council's contribution to the LA Galaxy game will come out of the council's existing Events Development Fund which means the money is already budgeted for and therefore no impact on rates. I'm also pretty sure that the EDF comes out of commercial rates and not residential rates but I could be wrong there.
 
The EDF was set up a few years ago and has already been used to support a wide variety of events such as the X-Games, rugby test matches, the World of Wearable Arts and the Robbie Williams concert. The idea of putting money into the LA Galaxy game seems legitimate when put in that context.
 
There seems to be quite an emotional reaction to the fact that it's Beckham but the event itself is irrelevant really. It could be any kind of event but what's more important is the potential impact the event will have on the city. And love him or hate him if Beckham can fill the stadium, bring people from out of town and boost the Phoenix profile in a way that is likely to result in ongoing benefits for them and the city then it would seem to meet the criteria for EDF funding.
 
I agree that the lack of disclosure is a bit disturbing but that said all EDF funding is commercial in nature and there are often confidentiality issues involved in commercial transactions. There would be no point having a fund if you couldn't spend it because you refused to ever sign a confidentiality agreement.
 
 
 
 
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Skaman - Yeah, but the money goes to the Galaxy. Beckham probably has an appearance fee, but he gets his wages whether the game is played or not. The Galaxy are merely looking to cash in by negotiating lucrative friendlies.... no doubt to be able to afford Beckham's wages in the first place.
 
It's amazing the number of people who think the Phoenix are paying Beckham.
SiNZ2007-08-30 14:15:50
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What, you mean there are players other than Beckham in LA Galaxy? /sarcasm
 
On the one hand it would be awesome if there were a lot of fans from other codes at the Galaxy game (since it would spread the fever faster) but on the other hand I worry that the crowd will be all people that are interested in Mr Beckham and some people that actually want to be there to experience/create the atmosphere may miss out.
 
I certainly want to be there to see if we can get 35000 people chanting - its going to be the best crowd this country has ever witnessed IMO.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SiNZ wrote:
Skaman - Yeah, but the money goes to the Galaxy. Beckham probably has an appearance fee, but he gets his wages whether the game is played or not. The Galaxy are merely looking to cash in by negotiating lucrative friendlies.... no doubt to be able to afford Beckham's wages in the first place.
 
It's amazing the number of people who think the Phoenix are paying Beckham.
 
I did realise, but paying any club to come here perpetuates the whole persona, that beckham is what football is about, any player who thinks he is better than his country and tries to hold them to ransom, can go "Stick His Head Up A Dead Bears Bum"
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[QUOTE=Kiwi Jambo]

My love of football is completely undiminished but my lack of love for a profligate local council who will  not even tell us how much money they are going to spend on bringing Becks the Galaxy and his missus down here  also shows no sign of waning!!
Its a council who has a committee some of whom are not even elected who have a ten minute meeting and then dip into council coffers and secretly give out council/rates money to high risk entertainment ventures!
 Its  three weeks out from an election ,Prendergast has spotted a euphoric wave on the horizon in the shape of The Phoenix football club  and its fans and  like any politician she is instinctively opportunist,manipulative and desperate, she can also  can smell a juicy bit of publicity from miles away !!
iI think we are being had on this one


High risk??? Or we could just not have the Galaxy play here, not have 35 000 patrons come to the Ring of Fire, not have 35 000 patrons see the Phoenix in action, not have 35 000 people hearing (and succumbing to) the noise of the Yellow Fever boys, and we could just not use this as a fantastic way to spread yellow fever.  At least your rates would be safe.   But is such a drastic measure really supporting the Phoenix "through thick, thin and thinner"??







AllezLesJaunes2007-08-30 15:06:19
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's not uncommon for clubs to demand a fee to play a friendly, but it is far from being the norm. That last sentence in my previous posting wasn't directed at anyone in particular; merely an observation after encountering that belief from so many people at work.
 
Who did you have in mind with the holding his country to ransom? I don't disagree with the sentiment, but I didn't see the relevance. Tell you what has me wound up these days are the number of players who retire from international football prematurely. You should retire when the manager stops picking you, not before - Scholes, Carragher, Shearer etc
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I still dont get all the beckham bashing aye, I sniff a touch of jealousy in a lot of places.
And would you not take the money he's getting paid if it was offered? Like f**k you wouldn't.
How does Beckham think he's better than his country? He's the one who got dropped by McLaren remember.....and if i'm not mistaken the lad flew across the Atlantic to be part of the squad even though the game was only a friendly.......thats probably the greatest act of selflessness once can display as a player. Who's got their head up whose arse now? Muppet.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I really can't understand why people are suddenly up in arms about the council spending money promoting this game.

Many years ago now the WCC decided to brand the city as an event city and subsequently began spending money to attract a variety of events here. The logic was sound, attract a number of high quality, internationally recognised events to the city which will attract large numbers of visitors. These in turn will promote the growth of existing businesses and the creation of new businesses all of which will increase the amount of rates paid. So really it is seen as a mid to long term investment with a realistic return.

So the spending on this game is just a continuation of that policy and should be viewed the same as WoW, the X games, the Edinburgh Tattoo, the International Festival of the Arts and a variety of other such events. Why is this game different and why complain now and not about any of those events, especially as they collectively make our city a better place?
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Becoz people are narrow minded Malky my friend, people kickin up a stink for the sake of hearing their own voices.

Just imagine is the NFL wanted to bring a preseason game here, heaven forbid!
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The Dompost is being pretty objective about it at least
Kiwi Jambo2007-08-30 16:44:30

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jambo you have a big axe to grind here. Run for office yourself I say.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sizzla wrote:
Kiwi Jambo wrote:
Im dry retching already at the thought of Prendergast and Posh holding up a Phoenix scarf on the front page of the Dom Post.
Prendergast is so obviously jumping on the bandwagon for political gain and the means of doing this is by secretly spending other peoples money ,do you agree with the lack of disclosure Uber?
One of the richest sportsmen on the planet will play football for a club owned by one of the richest men in Wellington and heres the punch line the council are going to help pay for it ,hilarious
Hope people will find the 30% rates increase thats on the cards as easy to swallow as this  and as a side issue do you think the council should be turning down funding for events like the dragon boating festival but still find money for Beckham and co which one benefits the community more in the long run ?
 
Where do you get the 30% increase in rates from Jambo?
 
I am under the impresssion that the council's contribution to the LA Galaxy game will come out of the council's existing Events Development Fund which means the money is already budgeted for and therefore no impact on rates. I'm also pretty sure that the EDF comes out of commercial rates and not residential rates but I could be wrong there.
 
The EDF was set up a few years ago and has already been used to support a wide variety of events such as the X-Games, rugby test matches, the World of Wearable Arts and the Robbie Williams concert. The idea of putting money into the LA Galaxy game seems legitimate when put in that context.
 
There seems to be quite an emotional reaction to the fact that it's Beckham but the event itself is irrelevant really. It could be any kind of event but what's more important is the potential impact the event will have on the city. And love him or hate him if Beckham can fill the stadium, bring people from out of town and boost the Phoenix profile in a way that is likely to result in ongoing benefits for them and the city then it would seem to meet the criteria for EDF funding.
 
I agree that the lack of disclosure is a bit disturbing but that said all EDF funding is commercial in nature and there are often confidentiality issues involved in commercial transactions. There would be no point having a fund if you couldn't spend it because you refused to ever sign a confidentiality agreement.
 
  I got the 30% figure from the front page of the Dom Post ,Source Dominion Post 29/8/07 ( May not be for sale in Jamaica )Anyway here is the editorial which i agree with funny enough!

How much should ratepayers be willing to stump up to bring a fading football superstar to the capital to play against the Wellington Phoenix? That's none of their business, according to Wellington Mayor Kerry Prendergast, writes The Dominion Post.

She is wrong. It is their money, and therefore very much their business.

Yesterday's Funding Local Government report, which pointed to rates becoming unsustainable unless councils rein in spending and make better decisions, only underlines the need for that accountability. By refusing to reveal how much Wellington City Council is willing to put toward the financing of an appearance of David Beckham and the rest of the LA Galaxy, Ms Prendergast undermines that accountability.

Ms Prendergast says the money in the Events Development Fund comes "100 per cent from commercial rates" because that is the sector that will benefit from the Beckham appearance. There is a certain amount of sophistry in that approach.

Rates income is not tagged. The council has a pool of money from both business and residential ratepayers, which it spends across a wide range of activities.

Ms Prendergast justifies the secrecy on the grounds of commercial confidentiality. She cites the ombudsman's view last year that it can remain confidential which events receive money from the Events Development Fund, and the amount they receive. There is a difference between can and must. In a tiny number of cases it may be defensible not to make public the amount - though it is hard to imagine when the public should not be informed how much of its money is being spent - but they should be the very occasional exception, not the blanket rule.

Helping to finance the Beckham visit is not one of those rare exceptions.

Ms Prendergast argues that, if the amount the council is putting into big events is known, there will be a bidding war with other cities. That does not apply in this case. The Wellington Phoenix are the only possible opponents for the LA Galaxy. Owner Terry Serepisos is astute enough to realise that the quickest way to destroy his chances of building the long-term, loyal fan base in Wellington his franchise needs to succeed would be to effectively raise a one-fingered salute to those fans by moving the Beckham game somewhere else.

There are occasions when the council should spend money to make money, and to bring vibrancy to the city. The World of WearableArts, the International Arts Festival and the Rugby Sevens are good examples of that.

However, it is not a given that any event is a good event.

In 2002 Wellington City Council decided to spend $233,000 underwriting Tiger Woods' appearance at the New Zealand Golf Open. That money was lost.

A gung-ho approach to hosting the V8 Supercar race, based on disputed claims that it would deliver a $23 million annual fillip to the city, ended up costing $175,000.

As Ms Prendergast observed in the wake of the V8 bid, Wellington needs to be the events capital, not the "events-at-any-cost capital".

The value to ratepayers of a one-off appearance of an increasingly fragile Hollywood wannabe is questionable, to say the least. However, ratepayers cannot question that value without knowing what the cost to them will be.

Ms Prendergast should give them the information they both need and are entitled to.SOURCE DOMINION POST 29/8/07
 
 
Kiwi Jambo2007-08-30 16:49:19

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I have thought about it mate but as the old saying goes "it dosent matter who you vote for the government always wins!!"
(or in this case local government!)
Thanks for the endorsment you can be my campaign manager next time round 


Barber21 wrote:
Jambo you have a big axe to grind here. Run for office yourself I say.

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely " Kiwi Jambo2007-08-30 16:45:54

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
"There are occasions when the council should spend money to make money, and to bring vibrancy to the city. The World of WearableArts, the International Arts Festival and the Rugby Sevens are good examples of that."
 
What's the logic of that statement? How are they distinguishing these events?
SiNZ2007-08-30 16:51:14
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What has this got to do with supporting the Phoenix, really?  I mean, come on.  If we all devoted as much time to promoting the Phoenix boys who we love as you do to ranting about the mayor, Wellington would be on fire!  Save your energy for positive promotion, not just getting on the politics bandwagon again.  There's plenty of time for that on other forums.  Perhaps blogspot.com would be a good one.  No "government" control on that one to worry about.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oh stop being so precious !
 It is a football forum and the subject of the thread does involve the Phoenix football team but  if don't want to talk about  this issue feel free not to theres heaps of other stuff on the site that you may find easier to deal with and more comfortable  to look at ,anyway my posts are mainly responses  to other posters do you want them to piss of as well .
Its about open discussion not not sycophantic back slapping and blind acceptance of everything, if you are not up to debating the issue then simply ignore it and vote in the drum poll or something!

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
somone (not really sure who) is losing a tooth  Frankie Mac2007-08-30 19:48:39

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Won't be me.  I've got a yellow mouthguard to wear.  Sorted 
Fire it up farken!!!

<=  that won't be me...
AllezLesJaunes2007-08-30 20:22:29
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Barber21 wrote:
Becoz people are narrow minded Malky my friend, people kickin up a stink for the sake of hearing their own voices.

Just imagine is the NFL wanted to bring a preseason game here, heaven forbid!


You just like pretty boys - open minded



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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ok my main concern is that people say they want a pupming atmosphere with the fever zone going nuts right???? i dont see why you bash my suggestion of making a posh spice chant - as i said many clubs do it. Also i fear this game wont be pumping as many non footy fans/people will go to just see bekham andwont care for the phoenix. Thats why i say this is our house, our "stadium", our team, we are phoenix fans we should have pride and support our team hard even for friendlies such as this one. Who knows how long we will last, we must enjoy it while we can
 
also the comment on greece was to confirm that i realise flares and "missiles" are out of the question, in NZ anyway
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zole i am a self confessed pretty boy mate! guy on the right (reggie bush) is no pretty boy, check YOUTUBE.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Can we have a whiskey drinking contest instead?
Im a bit long in the tooth to take on the whole YF board in  pugilistic display in the fever lounge  (and i fancy keeping that tooth as well Frankie )
Ok a half time arm wrestle for the Prendegast cup(hopefully get sponsorship from the council  for this) winner gets the pints in?







AllezLesJaunes wrote:
Won't be me.  I've got a yellow mouthguard to wear.  Sorted 
Fire it up farken!!!

<=  that won't be me...
Kiwi Jambo2007-08-31 09:17:50

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
WARZYCHA wrote:
i fear this game wont be pumping as many non footy fans/people will go to just see bekham andwont care for the phoenix.
[/QUOTE] 
 
I think that's inevitable with any "show" event. However, as long as the Fever Zone is still allowed to be the Fever Zone we'll still be generating our thing. I would hope that season ticket holders get first chance at tickets so we can make sure we keep aisle 21/22.
 
However, what you miss is that the whole idea of this match is to get people along who would not normally go - otherwise we wouldn't be debating whether it is an acceptable use of rates money. The trick for the Phoenix is to have those people enjoy it so much they come back.
 
We do not want the Phoenix to be an "elitist just for real football fans" club - we need to get the casual fan coming along. That's pretty much true for any club in the world (only the scale changes) - not many clubs could survive long term on just the hardcore support.
 
[QUOTE=WARZYCHA] 
also the comment on greece was to confirm that i realise flares and "missiles" are out of the question, in NZ anyway
 
Missiles are obviously unacceptable... people will get hurt. That's not a Greece/NZ thing as much as being a human. Just because the police don't clamp down on it in Turkey and Greece does not make it acceptable. A friend of mine lost an eye when hit by a coin at a Turkey v England game - try telling him that's just a culture thing.
 
Unlike flares, missile throwing has only one purpose - to aim something at someone, hit them and hurt them. Throwing missiles does not make someone a passionate football fan - it makes them a cancer on the game.
 
Flares, I'm personally ambivalent on but think there is a risk of putting the media and stadium offside, especially if the cake tin has regulations on them. I'd also be concerned about safety given that there has been at least one incident of fire - mid-90s a fan's hair was set alight by a flare in a game. Hold on, I'll google it (yep - 1994 AEK Athens v PAOK Solinaka). That only has to happen once and NZ football would be set back decades. With football being in its infancy here, why take the risk?
SiNZ2007-08-31 10:32:46
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Im not going to start wearing flares to the football my Bay City Roller days are over!



SiNZ wrote:
WARZYCHA wrote:
i fear this game wont be pumping as many non footy fans/people will go to just see bekham andwont care for the phoenix.
[/QUOTE] 
 
I think that's inevitable with any "show" event. However, as long as the Fever Zone is still allowed to be the Fever Zone we'll still be generating our thing. I would hope that season ticket holders get first chance at tickets so we can make sure we keep aisle 21/22.
 
However, what you miss is that the whole idea of this match is to get people along who would not normally go - otherwise we wouldn't be debating whether it is an acceptable use of rates money. The trick for the Phoenix is to have those people enjoy it so much they come back.
 
We do not want the Phoenix to be an "elitist just for real football fans" club - we need to get the casual fan coming along. That's pretty much true for any club in the world (only the scale changes) - not many clubs could survive long term on just the hardcore support.
 
[QUOTE=WARZYCHA] 
also the comment on greece was to confirm that i realise flares and "missiles" are out of the question, in NZ anyway
 
Missiles are obviously unacceptable... people will get hurt. That's not a Greece/NZ thing as much as being a human. Just because the police don't clamp down on it in Turkey and Greece does not make it acceptable. A friend of mine lost an eye when hit by a coin at a Turkey v England game - try telling him that's just a culture thing.
 
Unlike flares, missile throwing has only one purpose - to aim something at someone, hit them and hurt them. Throwing missiles does not make someone a passionate football fan - it makes them a cancer on the game.
 
Flares, I'm personally ambivalent on but think there is a risk of putting the media and stadium offside, especially if the cake tin has regulations on them. I'd also be concerned about safety given that there has been at least one incident of fire - mid-90s a fan's hair was set alight by a flare in a game. Hold on, I'll google it (yep - 1994 AEK Athens v PAOK Solinaka). That only has to happen once and NZ football would be set back decades. With football being in its infancy here, why take the risk?

The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ok this aside, turks are coward fans they attack poeple in turkey but dont travel the return leg. Any team PAOK plays there is trouble. When greece played spain last week in PAOK's stadium the PAOK fans chanted F%%K GREECE/PAO/ATHENS/AEK etc this teams fans are the worst in europe.
 
- this still doesnt mean we cant rip into bekham, his team, and his wife
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Its not going to happen Becks is getting a scan on his ankle as we speak.So hold all tickets.
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