When you pass to the opposition more than your team mates you have to be defensively sound because you are the reason your team is defending duh!
I would like to see some stats to back that up.
did anyone else think it was refreshing to see brockie get switched up to striker/forward role? he does far more work and is much more effective. As for vinnie, like the whole team he had a shocker for the first 20min, he wasnt the only doing daft passes to players right infront of them. What was the story with stien can someone fill me in? (too lazy to go back and scroll through comments), was it tactical or was he carrying a niggle?
yung thug
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when was the last time we made more passes than the opposition?
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I'm not too sure what you can draw from those images but my take on it, looking at the Phoenix one, we tend to pass around our back four A LOT judging by the heavy blue patch between the 18 and centre circle edge.
I also don't see many red lines coming out of the WSW box indicating they did not clear their lines and played their way out.
Both teams have that as playing L-R right?
Grumpy old bastard alert
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I'm not too sure what you can draw from those images but my take on it, looking at the Phoenix one, we tend to pass around our back four A LOT judging by the heavy blue patch between the 18 and centre circle edge.
I also don't see many red lines coming out of the WSW box indicating they did not clear their lines and played their way out.
Both teams have that as playing L-R right?
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I think a lot of comment on Lia's ability, or lack of it, is misguided. I dont expect any A League defensive midfielder to pass like Micheal freakn Laudrup. Lias shortcomings are those fundamental to his role - screening, slowing transition down, not diving in, stopping players turning, etc for 95 minutes at 100% - in fact longer and faster than any one else on the park. Lia just cant fullfill the basics for this role.
Bringing Hicks in as an extra midfielder was effectively to compensate Lia's shiteness.
Does anyone remember how awesome it was when we had that young sydney FC dude in DM last season???
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when was the last time we made more passes than the opposition?
I remember against CCM last year at the cake tin, and i'm sure a few other instances.
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I think a lot of comment on Lia's ability, or lack of it, is misguided. I dont expect any A League defensive midfielder to pass like Micheal freakn Laudrup. Lias shortcomings are those fundamental to his role - screening, slowing transition down, not diving in, stopping players turning, etc for 95 minutes at 100% - in fact longer and faster than any one else on the park. Lia just cant fullfill the basics for this role.
Bringing Hicks in as an extra midfielder was effectively to compensate Lia's shiteness.
Does anyone remember how awesome it was when we had that young sydney FC dude in DM last season???
Yes miss his busyness really. Shame we couldn't hang onto him
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did anyone else think it was refreshing to see brockie get switched up to striker/forward role? he does far more work and is much more effective. As for vinnie, like the whole team he had a shocker for the first 20min, he wasnt the only doing daft passes to players right infront of them. What was the story with stien can someone fill me in? (too lazy to go back and scroll through comments), was it tactical or was he carrying a niggle?
Tactical. Quotes from Ernie
"The Wanderers came out of the box firing, they were all over us," Merrick said.
"But the change I made, taking off Stein Huysegems, who did nothing wrong, I just needed another midfielder, we were getting beaten in the midfield.
"But Jason Hicks made a big difference and then I got Paul Ifill on, who was recovering from a hamstring injury, and he got better and better."
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Does anyone remember how awesome it was when we had that young sydney FC dude in DM last season???
Are you talking about Corey Gameiro? He played up front or just behind the striker.
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I think a lot of comment on Lia's ability, or lack of it, is misguided. I dont expect any A League defensive midfielder to pass like Micheal freakn Laudrup. Lias shortcomings are those fundamental to his role - screening, slowing transition down, not diving in, stopping players turning, etc for 95 minutes at 100% - in fact longer and faster than any one else on the park. Lia just cant fullfill the basics for this role.
Bringing Hicks in as an extra midfielder was effectively to compensate Lia's shiteness.
Does anyone remember how awesome it was when we had that young sydney FC dude in DM last season???
You mean Gameiro who actually played as a striker or just behind the lone striker? He most definitely was not a DM.
What you have described s the fundamentals are pretty spot on, and the reality is that Lia does a passable job with these. It is his passing that lets him down.
If Hicks coming on was to compensate for Lia, why did Ernie just no bin Lia for either Hicks or Riera then?
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Does anyone remember how awesome it was when we had that young sydney FC dude in DM last season???
Are you talking about Corey Gameiro? He played up front or just behind the striker.
Grumpy old bastard alert
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The guy that got cut at Melbourne and went to Perth? Wassissname
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You mean Gameiro who actually played as a striker or just behind the lone striker? He most definitely was not a DM.
What you have described s the fundamentals are pretty spot on, and the reality is that Lia does a passable job with these. It is his passing that lets him down.
If Hicks coming on was to compensate for Lia, why did Ernie just no bin Lia for either Hicks or Riera then?
Does not compute !!
What you are saying might have been ok at the start of the A League several years ago, but in my view, the standard is up now, and to not be able to pass consistently well isnt good enough, especially in tight situations. So either Lia improves, or he will be surpassed (pun intended)
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The guy that got cut at Melbourne and went to Perth? Wassissname
Cernak
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He just made a mistake. Gameiro, played a very Wayne Rooney role last season yes
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You mean Gameiro who actually played as a striker or just behind the lone striker? He most definitely was not a DM.
What you have described s the fundamentals are pretty spot on, and the reality is that Lia does a passable job with these. It is his passing that lets him down.
If Hicks coming on was to compensate for Lia, why did Ernie just no bin Lia for either Hicks or Riera then?
Does not compute !!
What you are saying might have been ok at the start of the A League several years ago, but in my view, the standard is up now, and to not be able to pass consistently well isnt good enough, especially in tight situations. So either Lia improves, or he will be surpassed (pun intended)
But is it based on perception or reality. I have not seen stats for this week yet, but last week Lia completed the 3rd or 4th most passes in the league? Yes he does give the ball away at times as does every single player, just when he does it it is like the world is about to end.
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He just made a mistake. Gameiro, played a very Wayne Rooney role last season yes
Still had Lia and Manny behind him for the most part. Did a good job pressuring the defenders/DMs of other teams. I don't think he dropped that deep.
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Im not trying to sound high and mighty with saying this - but im actually surprised, after the last two seasons, that people still have a go at Brockie. Hes a true 'something from nothing' footballer. Yesterday was another prime example of this, seemingly shut out for most of the match but still scored.
If I think about what pisses me off about him I see a footballer than has obvious talent and produces those genius moments like you say. Yesterday goal was a quality finish and I think others may not have finished that. I then ask 'What would we get from him if he applied himself more?" and that's what gets up me. He has talent but is capable of delivering so much more if there was more application and not this drifting out of the game for long periods thing that he does.
If I take an example, and say Brockie is invisible for (lets use a number for the purpose of this exercise but not in anyway a measure of his actual output) 75% of the game and any applies himself for 25% of it. How much better would he be, if he drifted out for say only 50% of it? The Phoenix would have an infinitely more productive footballer and I hazard to suggest, he may be playing in a better league some place else.
He isnt drifting like you say, your example is wrong, I watched him a lot last season and think he is unnecessarily bagged, does more work than you and others say. In my opinion of course, and I am not wrong :-)
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He just made a mistake. Gameiro, played a very Wayne Rooney role last season yes
That is a lie! He did not root a single Granny in the whole time he was in Wellington
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How come there's no yellow line for Iffy's assist?
just discovered the passes does not include crosses. and they deemed ifill's pass to be a cross.
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You mean Gameiro who actually played as a striker or just behind the lone striker? He most definitely was not a DM.
What you have described s the fundamentals are pretty spot on, and the reality is that Lia does a passable job with these. It is his passing that lets him down.
If Hicks coming on was to compensate for Lia, why did Ernie just no bin Lia for either Hicks or Riera then?
Does not compute !!
What you are saying might have been ok at the start of the A League several years ago, but in my view, the standard is up now, and to not be able to pass consistently well isnt good enough, especially in tight situations. So either Lia improves, or he will be surpassed (pun intended)
But is it based on perception or reality. I have not seen stats for this week yet, but last week Lia completed the 3rd or 4th most passes in the league? Yes he does give the ball away at times as does every single player, just when he does it it is like the world is about to end.
The stats are up on the A League site, Vinny made 61 passes at 78.7% accuracy on the weekend - Carlos at an amazing 90.6% accuracy for his 64 passes.
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You mean Gameiro who actually played as a striker or just behind the lone striker? He most definitely was not a DM.
What you have described s the fundamentals are pretty spot on, and the reality is that Lia does a passable job with these. It is his passing that lets him down.
If Hicks coming on was to compensate for Lia, why did Ernie just no bin Lia for either Hicks or Riera then?
Does not compute !!
What you are saying might have been ok at the start of the A League several years ago, but in my view, the standard is up now, and to not be able to pass consistently well isnt good enough, especially in tight situations. So either Lia improves, or he will be surpassed (pun intended)
But is it based on perception or reality. I have not seen stats for this week yet, but last week Lia completed the 3rd or 4th most passes in the league? Yes he does give the ball away at times as does every single player, just when he does it it is like the world is about to end.
Well you give it away in the positions he does, and yes it may end.
Some of his passes this last game seemed particularly poor to me
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He just made a mistake. Gameiro, played a very Wayne Rooney role last season yes
That is a lie! He did not root a single Granny in the whole time he was in Wellington
Looks like he would though...
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You mean Gameiro who actually played as a striker or just behind the lone striker? He most definitely was not a DM.
What you have described s the fundamentals are pretty spot on, and the reality is that Lia does a passable job with these. It is his passing that lets him down.
If Hicks coming on was to compensate for Lia, why did Ernie just no bin Lia for either Hicks or Riera then?
Does not compute !!
What you are saying might have been ok at the start of the A League several years ago, but in my view, the standard is up now, and to not be able to pass consistently well isnt good enough, especially in tight situations. So either Lia improves, or he will be surpassed (pun intended)
But is it based on perception or reality. I have not seen stats for this week yet, but last week Lia completed the 3rd or 4th most passes in the league? Yes he does give the ball away at times as does every single player, just when he does it it is like the world is about to end.
Well you give it away in the positions he does, and yes it may end.
Some of his passes this last game seemed particularly poor to me
That they were, but at least three of them were as a result of him copping a hospital pass
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You mean Gameiro who actually played as a striker or just behind the lone striker? He most definitely was not a DM.
What you have described s the fundamentals are pretty spot on, and the reality is that Lia does a passable job with these. It is his passing that lets him down.
If Hicks coming on was to compensate for Lia, why did Ernie just no bin Lia for either Hicks or Riera then?
Does not compute !!
What you are saying might have been ok at the start of the A League several years ago, but in my view, the standard is up now, and to not be able to pass consistently well isnt good enough, especially in tight situations. So either Lia improves, or he will be surpassed (pun intended)
But is it based on perception or reality. I have not seen stats for this week yet, but last week Lia completed the 3rd or 4th most passes in the league? Yes he does give the ball away at times as does every single player, just when he does it it is like the world is about to end.
The stats are up on the A League site, Vinny made 61 passes at 78.7% accuracy on the weekend - Carlos at an amazing 90.6% accuracy for his 64 passes.
His passing accuracy was better than, Kenny, Brockie, Ifill, Riera, Caira, and Steins Manny was only marginally better.
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Also if you have an iPhone you can get this app https://itunes.apple.com/nz/app/fourfourtwo-soccer-stats-zone/id453744566?mt=8
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Im not trying to sound high and mighty with saying this - but im actually surprised, after the last two seasons, that people still have a go at Brockie. Hes a true 'something from nothing' footballer. Yesterday was another prime example of this, seemingly shut out for most of the match but still scored.
If I think about what pisses me off about him I see a footballer than has obvious talent and produces those genius moments like you say. Yesterday goal was a quality finish and I think others may not have finished that. I then ask 'What would we get from him if he applied himself more?" and that's what gets up me. He has talent but is capable of delivering so much more if there was more application and not this drifting out of the game for long periods thing that he does.
If I take an example, and say Brockie is invisible for (lets use a number for the purpose of this exercise but not in anyway a measure of his actual output) 75% of the game and any applies himself for 25% of it. How much better would he be, if he drifted out for say only 50% of it? The Phoenix would have an infinitely more productive footballer and I hazard to suggest, he may be playing in a better league some place else.
He isnt drifting like you say, your example is wrong, I watched him a lot last season and think he is unnecessarily bagged, does more work than you and others say. In my opinion of course, and I am not wrong :-)
Grumpy old bastard alert
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Chart interesting also for number of forays down flanks close to deadball line but not many long passes(crosses) from there. Agree with earlier comment about volume of our passes across our defensive 3rd.
A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen
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Decent effort overall. Not a snatch and grab point. Well earned and based on good share of possession and chances. Special mentions for Durante, bertos, Hernandez and ifill.
But also special mention for Lia. He was miserable, absolute mud, even by his own standards. Caught in possession, clumsy on ball, wayward passes. And it wasn't just the first 20 min as picked up by the commentators. It was the whole game. In fact, if santalab's shot had shaved inside the post rather than hitting it we would all be rewinding the tape and flailing Lia for a ghastly turnover.
It is beyond me how a guy can play so consistently poorly and have such limited accuracy, composure and technical ability and get selected so often. Yes, has the odd moment and makes the odd pass, but there are countless club players who could perform to the level he does week in week out.
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Revisiting the 'opinion' part of this thread: there is a difference between an opinion and just saying things like "so and so is fucking crap..." and there are a couple of serial offenders who do this all the time and it gets a bit tedious. These 'the sky is falling' types ruin it for me, we're meant to be fans and while that doesn't mean we have to be positive the whole time and accept everything as fine and dandy, we can be disappointed without this whole negative vibe.
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when was the last time we made more passes than the opposition?
That looks like a Stevo special drawing.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Feeling really positive about the season so far. We will keep improving with more time and are looking good already.
Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka
http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka
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