some poor option taking on attack. McG found out on cutting in. Gave the ball away many times doing this and I thought even Burns had a couple of times in the first half when he tried to dribble through players when he had lots of support in the box.
Had flashbacks of the Mexican game- 30 minutes of effort and discipline and then a slip up. Seems like the plan was to hold out and then attack late. But we didn't.
Awful.
I disagree. Before you start dissing your own team, remember this is the same Nix team that beat CCM and the Jets, OK with a few changes (like Fenton and Lia starting). Victory today had much better man-on-man marking, athleticism and their passing quality was exceptional.
Even if the opposition is good, as they were today, we still should have done better: score at least one against them. This is where I agree that some of the individual performances were not good enough.
This does not change the fact that after the first 45 minutes a draw was unlikely. If they had Berisha on the park, we would have been demolished and demoralised. As it is, we were simply beaten by a much better team.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
One thing which I'm very concerned about is how many passing mistakes we make, especially in the midfield. That's a serious worry since we try to play a possession-based game.
If Ernie stopped changing the midfield every 30 minutes, they might have had a change to properly gel by now...
some poor option taking on attack. McG found out on cutting in. Gave the ball away many times doing this and I thought even Burns had a couple of times in the first half when he tried to dribble through players when he had lots of support in the box.
Had flashbacks of the Mexican game- 30 minutes of effort and discipline and then a slip up. Seems like the plan was to hold out and then attack late. But we didn't.
Weemac and Burns had crap support from fullbacks today, hence the abject performances - not to mention Burns being forced into a central striking position by himself the whole first half.
a.haak
[quote=theprof]
well that was a tad dissappointing.
yes just a tard disappointing !!!
The answer to life's problems are rarely found at the bottom of a beer glass - but it's always worth a look.
Awful.
I disagree. Before you start dissing your own team, remember this is the same Nix team that beat CCM and the Jets, OK with a few changes (like Fenton and Lia starting). Victory today had much better man-on-man marking, athleticism and their passing quality was exceptional.
If the opposition is reasonably good, as they were today, we should have done better: score at least one against them. A draw was never on the cards. If they had Berisha on the park, we would have been demolished and demoralised.
What is with this attitude? Completely defeatist and the main reason we always lose there. Comparing both starting sides today, there is not a huge difference between the two in terms of quality . It's a salary capped league Ffs.
a.haak
It's a tradition for us to let weakened sides dominate and get confidence. We've done it since season 1. By the time we attack the new players coming in have had plenty of touches and believe in theselves.
The changes to the starting ine-up were stupid. Not because of the players who came in but because of the changes it forced on us. Without a real 'not a striker' Milligan effectively played in midfield in the first half becuse the defence had no work to do. Brockie should have started.
Fenton has not played at Right back for any length of time since he was injured last year, how people thought that was the solution to Archie I have no idea. At least Doyle is settled in the team AND has a left foot. Manny playing off his right restricted an avenue of attack.
So for the first 45 minutes they only really had to worry about our right side because we had no focal point in the middle and nothing on the left, that gave their youngsters all the time in the world to settle and Milligan a chance to effectively join Valeri in midfield to outnumber our midfielders.
Horrible call by Ernie that left us vulnerable to everything else that happened.
Also:
Not a Striker
Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker
Not a Striker = Not a Striker
Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker
If Archie and Costa had better form it could have been a lot worse.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
It's a tradition for us to let weakened sides dominate and get confidence. We've done it since season 1. By the time we attack the new players coming in have had plenty of touches and believe in theselves.
The changes to the starting ine-up were stupid. Not because of the players who came in but because of the changes it forced on us. With real striker Milligan effectively played in midfield in the first half becuse the defence had no work to do. Brockie should have started.
Fenton has not played at Right back for any length of time since he was injured last year, how people thought that was the solution to Archie I have no idea. At least Doyle is settled in the team AND has a left foot. Manny playing off his righ restricted an avenue of attack.
So for the first 45 minutes they only really had to worry about our right side because we had no focal point in the middle and nothing on the left, that gave their youngsters all the time in the world to settle and Milligan a chance to effectively join Valeri in midfield to outnumber our midfielders.
Horrible call by Ernie that left us vulnerable to everything else that happened.
Also:
Not a Striker
Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker
Not a Striker = Not a Striker
Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker
100% nailed it. Why Ernie did what he did only he knows.
You're right on the first point also - I can't remember us going into a game against a side without their stars and winning.
a.haak
This is the most destructive attitude in nz football and you can see it pervading this thread . If Melb Victory were in our position do you think they'd be happy that they tried hard? No , because that is the minimum expected of pro footballers.
a.haak
Must be something to do with the Muscat (Kevin that is), Thompson, and now Berisha factor, but fuck I hate the tards.
Onwards and upwards. Things to go back to the way they've been in wins over CCM and the Jets, and we'll be in business.
Lia and Krishna to the Weenix, Boxall and Boyd to be promoted. Hell, even throw Boyd in for a start in place of Brockie and give him a go.
It's a tradition for us to let weakened sides dominate and get confidence. We've done it since season 1. By the time we attack the new players coming in have had plenty of touches and believe in theselves.
The changes to the starting ine-up were stupid. Not because of the players who came in but because of the changes it forced on us. With real striker Milligan effectively played in midfield in the first half becuse the defence had no work to do. Brockie should have started.
Fenton has not played at Right back for any length of time since he was injured last year, how people thought that was the solution to Archie I have no idea. At least Doyle is settled in the team AND has a left foot. Manny playing off his righ restricted an avenue of attack.
So for the first 45 minutes they only really had to worry about our right side because we had no focal point in the middle and nothing on the left, that gave their youngsters all the time in the world to settle and Milligan a chance to effectively join Valeri in midfield to outnumber our midfielders.
Horrible call by Ernie that left us vulnerable to everything else that happened.
Also:
Not a Striker
Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker
Not a Striker = Not a Striker
Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker - Not a Striker
100% nailed it. Why Ernie did what he did only he knows.
You're right on the first point also - I can't remember us going into a game against a side without their stars and winning.
Yes, but when you keep giving the ball away cheaply and in the wrong areas you are going to get punished.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
Away at Victory is the toughest fixture in the league and we did a lot better than we have done in past seasons.
Thought we tried to get a bit cute changing the back 4 round and I'd prefer Bonavacia starting attacks rather than finishing them (or not...)
McG drifts in and out of games and he seemed pretty isolated. WHo knows though, Burns scores and we go backs to the wall for the second half, so not a terrible game and result
Normo's coming home
Payne was the right sub. I remember him playing really well against a good Liverpool side. Both teams were almost walking when he came on. Shows the gap in class we still have. Fenton was getting burnt against him, and the way he turned on the after burners against Lia was sad. Credit Lia with not giving it up though. We didn't have anything we could play to match that trump.
Yes, but when you keep giving the ball away cheaply and in the wrong areas you are going to get punished.
For me though that happened because of the pressure we allowed them to exert by having Milligan in midfield even though he was playing at Centre back.
No one had time on the ball or options because they packed the midfield with the backline because they knew they did not have to defend against anyone.
Payne was the right sub. I remember him playing really well against a good Liverpool side. Both teams were almost walking when he came on. Shows the gap in class we still have. Fenton was getting burnt against him, and the way he turned on the after burners against Lia was sad. Credit Lia with not giving it up though. We didn't have anything we could play to match that trump.
He had it easy though because we were chasing the game. We'd thrown it away long before he came on.
...remembering that both their fullbacks were 12 year-olds as well.
should have tested the keeper more for the attacks we had- but we need to learn how to break their line. We mainly chose to go wide but unlike kosta no one can actually but a fullback on their ass
everyone seemed to cut back in. There was no good shooting from distance, no good crosses into the box and no getting to the byline and putting it back across the area.
should have tested the keeper more for the attacks we had- but we need to learn how to break their line. We mainly chose to go wide but unlike kosta no one can actually but a fullback on their ass
everyone seemed to cut back in. There was no good shooting from distance, no good crosses into the box and no getting to the byline and putting it back across the area.
Apart from the Lia attempt of course.
Don't think the problems were up front tonight even though that was the end result - the problems started at the back with Manny not using his left foot and Fenton struggling.
a.haak
should have tested the keeper more for the attacks we had- but we need to learn how to break their line. We mainly chose to go wide but unlike kosta no one can actually but a fullback on their ass
everyone seemed to cut back in. There was no good shooting from distance, no good crosses into the box and no getting to the byline and putting it back across the area.
Apart from the Lia attempt of course.
got a bit misty-eyed nostalgic there...
Away at Victory is the toughest fixture in the league and we did a lot better than we have done in past seasons.
Thought we tried to get a bit cute changing the back 4 round and I'd prefer Bonavacia starting attacks rather than finishing them (or not...)
McG drifts in and out of games and he seemed pretty isolated. WHo knows though, Burns scores and we go backs to the wall for the second half, so not a terrible game and result
Agree. I'm not angry or embarrassed about this result compared to the 'shower of shit' efforts we've been forced to endure in just about every other MV away match in history. 2-0 was a totally fair reflection of the game. Some of our passing was excellent in midfield but their defending was better.
As to whether Ernie made wrong selections I don't honestly believe starting with or without certain players would've made any difference overall.
should have tested the keeper more for the attacks we had- but we need to learn how to break their line. We mainly chose to go wide but unlike kosta no one can actually put a fullback on their ass
Yeah both Fenton and Burns had a number of goes at their fullbacks and we're dispossessed every time
Normo's coming home
Away at Victory is the toughest fixture in the league and we did a lot better than we have done in past seasons.
Thought we tried to get a bit cute changing the back 4 round and I'd prefer Bonavacia starting attacks rather than finishing them (or not...)
McG drifts in and out of games and he seemed pretty isolated. WHo knows though, Burns scores and we go backs to the wall for the second half, so not a terrible game and result
Agree. I'm not angry or embarrassed about this result compared to the 'shower of shit' efforts we've been forced to endure in just about every other MV away match in history. 2-0 was a totally fair reflection of the game. Some of our passing was excellent in midfield but their defending was better.
As to whether Ernie made wrong selections I don't honestly believe starting with or without certain players would've made any difference overall.
Am honestly a little embarrassed we barely tested their makeshift back line that include 2 pre schoolers at fullback and a 5 foot 5 Broxham at CB
a.haak
Was more disappointed with how we went going forward overall than how we defended.
Away at Victory is the toughest fixture in the league and we did a lot better than we have done in past seasons.
Thought we tried to get a bit cute changing the back 4 round and I'd prefer Bonavacia starting attacks rather than finishing them (or not...)
McG drifts in and out of games and he seemed pretty isolated. WHo knows though, Burns scores and we go backs to the wall for the second half, so not a terrible game and result
Agree. I'm not angry or embarrassed about this result compared to the 'shower of shit' efforts we've been forced to endure in just about every other MV away match in history. 2-0 was a totally fair reflection of the game. Some of our passing was excellent in midfield but their defending was better.
As to whether Ernie made wrong selections I don't honestly believe starting with or without certain players would've made any difference overall.
But isn't it worrying that our best (or close to it) XI can't beat MV with half their players missing? We are apparently spending the cap and MV had Berisha (one of their marquees missing). Our team out there should have been worth more in terms of $$$ then MV.
Because different teams have different styles.
Away at Victory is the toughest fixture in the league and we did a lot better than we have done in past seasons.
Thought we tried to get a bit cute changing the back 4 round and I'd prefer Bonavacia starting attacks rather than finishing them (or not...)
McG drifts in and out of games and he seemed pretty isolated. WHo knows though, Burns scores and we go backs to the wall for the second half, so not a terrible game and result
Agree. I'm not angry or embarrassed about this result compared to the 'shower of shit' efforts we've been forced to endure in just about every other MV away match in history. 2-0 was a totally fair reflection of the game. Some of our passing was excellent in midfield but their defending was better.
As to whether Ernie made wrong selections I don't honestly believe starting with or without certain players would've made any difference overall.
But isn't it worrying that our best (or close to it) XI can't beat MV with half their players missing? We are apparently spending the cap and MV had Berisha (one of their marquees missing). Our team out there should have been worth more in terms of $$$ then MV.
Yes, it's a worry for me that we're wasting money on players who aren't near the starting lineup
Normo's coming home
Because different teams have different styles.
...and our changes played into theirs.
Away at Victory is the toughest fixture in the league and we did a lot better than we have done in past seasons.
Thought we tried to get a bit cute changing the back 4 round and I'd prefer Bonavacia starting attacks rather than finishing them (or not...)
McG drifts in and out of games and he seemed pretty isolated. WHo knows though, Burns scores and we go backs to the wall for the second half, so not a terrible game and result
Agree. I'm not angry or embarrassed about this result compared to the 'shower of shit' efforts we've been forced to endure in just about every other MV away match in history. 2-0 was a totally fair reflection of the game. Some of our passing was excellent in midfield but their defending was better.
As to whether Ernie made wrong selections I don't honestly believe starting with or without certain players would've made any difference overall.
But isn't it worrying that our best (or close to it) XI can't beat MV with half their players missing? We are apparently spending the cap and MV had Berisha (one of their marquees missing). Our team out there should have been worth more in terms of $$$ then MV.
The salary cap thing hurts my brain. Even allowing for marquees how MV get that squad under the cap is bewildering to me. Seemingly they've picked up ex-5 million euro signing Khalfallah at a car boot sale.
Didn't expect much from this game...so was not that disappointed.
Victory are a top top side an even without their stars are very hard to match at home. I don't think we can blame Fenton or Muscat too much on defense. Kallahallf and Costa are brilliant wide attackers and Melbourne generally shred wide defenders.
The worry was that we had so little joy on attack. I thought their defense was their weakest point but we just could not consistently put them under any pressure. Coe had a very quiet night because we hardly tested him. The transition on the left was terrible. Muscat is one footed and could not link with Weemac. We also got bossed in the final third by their midfield.....they packed the centre and we had very little room there. Burns on the right was our only real attacking option. Trouble was without a mobile central striker making runs for him he had few outlets and was forced into trying to dribble around multiple defenders
After only four games Bonavacea look like a very very good player. we just need to sort out where he's best positioned.
Despite the loss I do like the way Ernie has us playing......we have a great chance at making top 6 IMO. Victory are a masterclass in player movement, vision and passing......we are still learning to play like them. What we would do to have an Archie Thompson type striker.....because IMO that is our missing link. His movement creates and opens up so much for them. Dear old Brock's huffs and puffs but Thompson is in a different league
I don't know why we bother with these Melbourne Cup day games. We should just default them, the club would save money, I'd get to bed at a reasonable time on a schoolnight, and Victory still get their three points. Win for everyone.
