R4 vs Melbourne Victory | Mon 31 Oct | 9:50pm | SS2

We have the cattle we have and in my view Ernie is trying to fit to many square pegs in round holes. He needs to find a system that works for the players he has. Something Ricki was very very good at doing. Will it be ugly and unsexy? You bet, but we have now been doing the same things for 2 years. Somewhere, something need to change

On present form we would not cope with Adelaide or even Brisbane, although we might be in with a chance against WSW or maybe even CCM.  I would expect that we win against NUJ at home this coming weekend; if we do not then it is an indication of a deeper seated problem that might require a cleanout of the coaching team next season, as an alternative to handing our licence over to Auckland City FC.

That's 8 losses on the bounce... :-( The poor performances and the losses are becoming predictable and the lack of goals expected. The talk of improving performances and things will get better just go in one ear and out of the other now - I've heard it all before. Something needs to change very, very quickly.

If we get to 10 losses on the trot we will also have lost at home at Newy and at a neutral venue to the Mariners.

And if it does get to 10 losses, I want the board to provide a scapegoat's head - preferably on a stick....

Sort it out Ernie and Welnix!

The mitre 10 cup has 4/7 teams make the playoffs, which is pretty close. it means BOP made the playoffs by winning only 3 games.

In some football tournaments (Euro2016) two thirds make the round of 16.

Nothing else comes to mind. 

There is no way that finishing in the bottom half should be result in making the playoffs. 

The way we go on about injuries you'd think that other teams didn't get them

Yeah we might not bleed as many goals, but a team set up more defensively is going to limit our transition in attack surely and our attack was pretty hopeless.

 I know we all thought the defense had a shocker but our creative "skillful" players were technically poor and kept passing the ball to MV every couple of minutes. We had maybe 15 mins in the second half where we looked ok. 

I know that was our worst game so far but nothing about the team has blown me away in the other games either.

No idea what the answer is as there's deficits right across the team and that's not an easy fix.

Just to remind some of you this is what happened last season against the Jets lost 2-1 lost 3-1 lost 3-2 against CCM drew 1-1 lost 3-1 lost 3-1. So remind me again why they are going to just roll over.

They're in the wrong game then. Owners of professional football clubs are expected to throw money away. Or at the least get heavily indebted.

We only took 1 point out of those two last season and in those 6 games we had about 60%+ possession but continually caught on the counter, I actually think it gives us more of a chance if they try and take the game to us.

People have been saying we are not that bad based on the Sydney effort. What if that was an aberation? What if Sydney played really poor? I kind of think Sydney set up to allow us to have the Ball for Long periods with a view to hitting us on the break. I  kind of think Arnie came here thinking he would have been happy with a point away from Home

They are throwing large sums of money away, this football team is better resourced than it ever had been, yet you expect them to do more, even if its not viable?

We had one owner who was happy to spend more than he could afford. That turned out well.

I don't think we should be criticising owners that pay vast amounts out of their own pockets to entertain us, the board maybe, the management sure, but not owners who pay the bills on time and get us the players that the coach wants.

I did not say 'roll over'. I expect us to win over the Jets next weekend perhaps by one goal difference. 

Forget last season. Jets are not playing much better than we should be at the moment, and they have a serious injury list. Hence my statement that if we cannot win against them at home assuming Rossi is fit to play then there is a bigger problem than we think.

Also, I rank CCM above the Jets right now, and possibly on par with WSW and Brisbane if they have a good day in the office. I have not seen Nix have a good day in the office so far this season.  CCM will not roll over for us at any time, and I expect them to be be faster and more motivated than we are at present. That difference in motivation, visible in performance, made me think of our coaching problem somewhere.

We're either at the big table or we're not. Maybe the A-League needs a 2nd Div already.

We won't have a football club in a few years time at this rate because there's no way we will meet our metrics targets if we are constantly near the bottom of the table. You won't get 10k every home game to watch us lose.

The issue is consistency. There were some good wins and bad losses for every team I think. We seem to have reached a low point in performance, despite a decent (not perfect, but not poor either) player roster, and despite decent club budget. I would like us to win say half of all games every year in order for us to be "at the big table", apart from any natural desire for us to lift the plate. 

You are right in questioning our place at the big table if we consistently bring up the rear at the end ofthe season.

Yes there is. I like seeing us beating Australians. I pay money for it. I get annoyed when it doesn't happen.

We won't get 10k to every home game if we win, we have by far the smallest catchment of any team, even CCM have Sydney just up the road. If a 10k average is what WelNix agreed to their mad, they said the targets are achievable so I doubt it.

Well, we have two marquees and both teams have none. Our squad must be more expensive than both of their squads. I'm sure both of hem will back themselves to get results against us but I think man or man we have a better team. They won't roll over but if we lose to them then we have no hope of top 6.

Half our team are Australians.

Yeah. I get annoyed with that too.

1 goal for and 10 against after 4 games. Thats really taking it to the nix level.

I think mental preparation is a bit different for fans than players. Fans are entitled to expect a win. Players should be trying to play to a game plan that will generate a win. It doesn't matter what we as fans expect.

What? I'm sorry but that is just utter nonsense.

Why? I support Manchester United and I expect them to win when they play at home to Burnley, given the amount of money spent on the squad. Why is that nonsense?

Well that hardly applies for every club now does it?

I get annoyed with it especially when we're terrible. 

I mean, you can justify playing Australians if you're winning. But we used to be much much much better with Tony Lochhead, Tim Brown, Jeremy Brockie, Ben Sigmund, etc etc in the team.

Now we're toilet, but we still insist on picking up random players from the Australian state leagues. It makes me wonder if we're not signing the likes of Parkhouse (how bad is he!) and Liftin (who?) to appease the FFA. 

Why can't we pick up Kiwis in those positions. Not children, but players from the Stirling Sports Superleague or whatever. Or Kiwis who are grinding it out overseas but who might like a chance to play back home. Kip Colvey anyone?

It's quite bizarre.

Sure. That's why I don't think Phoenix fans are entitled to expect their team to win the a-league every season. There are bigger clubs, with better marquees. I think we are entitled to expect that our squad with two marquees will finish ahead of teams which cannot afford marquee players, like Newcastle and CCM. As fans we should be expecting our squad to finish higher than those two. I'm sure if I scroll through the preseason predictions very few people had us finishing below either of them.

Yeah, don't buy that argument i'm afraid. Spending money is not the definitive barometer of success. I think you're pretty naive if you think just because Team A spends more (or buys marquee players in this case) than Team B, that entitles them to finish above them, or the fans to immediately expect that without question. Fairly arrogant reasoning tbh. But then you are a United fan so i guess that explains it.

we hardly have any anyway

My point exactly.  If we get marquees it is because we are enticing an expensive player to come in and make a difference in an otherwise OK team.   It is a slightly similar argument for fielding visa players as opposed to AUS/NZL players. I know it is not exactly the same (CCM and/or NUJ can get reasonable local players who may not want to move to New Zealand), but it is a similar logic.

You made enough good sense to get a "This!" from three grumpy old men, including myself.

I have nothing more than speculation to rely on, but I would look at coaching / player management / issues at the Nix to decipher how promising players from other clubs collectively turn to sharke despite a good preseason.