Wellington Phoenix Men

Spoilt Early/There Are No Quick Fixes

33 replies · 1,236 views
over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Spoilt Early/There Are No Quick Fixes

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Have read with interest many differing views after our last set of results and it seems as if we are split into a number of  camps. Those of us who are prepared to give the lads a chance and will support them no matter what,another lot who want sack half the team and bring a lot of guys who are close to needing zimmer frames,another lot who would pobably be condeming us if we were winning by 4-1,yet another lot who just want to see yet another kiwi team fail.

I think one of the problems is just maybe the guys raised our expectations a little higher than they should have been after some good early results.Maybe we need to ALL calm down a little and lower our expectations a little.

Yes the defence has been shyte,but how many of you can condemn just one or two players for those failures astounds me.Maybe the midfield also needs to be coping a shyte load of the blame as more often than not its them who have handed the ball over to the opposition.

An answer to it all,nope i dont have one have seen enough people make fools of themselves with some of the players mentioned so far.At the end of the day there is little that can be done this season as far as bringing new players in.Given where were at about 5 months ago i will take where we are now 6 points out of the top 4,2nd top in goals scored.An optimist yep thats me just hope some of you are prepared to stick this ride out as i think it will be worth the wait when Ricky and the lads have had time to iron some of the many wrinkles out.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm Phoenix till I die!!! Agreed, I think that give the team a year together and then see how we are playing, rather than jump the gun and say we should sack half the team, lets get behind them and sing our lungs out and make the players feel confident that they have the fans support no matter what.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nice post, Ballane.

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Great post Ballane
 
Man City lost 6-0 to Chelsea recently but none of their fans would give up on them. Times like this make the wins sweeter further down the road.
 
And yes, i know we're not playing well, so please don't bother saying i need a 'reality check' or need to 'face facts'
I like tautologies because I like them.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nice post! C'mon phoenix!

I say tackle him in the face.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Ballane you're spot on.  Mind you I think it's natural after a run like this for us to get a bit grumpy.

We need to pull ourselves out of it before the next home game though!  Otherwise we'll be contributing to the problem...

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
smithy246 wrote:

Ballane you're spot on.  Mind you I think it's natural after a run like this for us to get a bit grumpy.

We need to pull ourselves out of it before the next home game though!  Otherwise we'll be contributing to the problem...
Grumpy yep i understand that,but really some of what has been written about some of our players is utter crap.Sometimes wonder if i have just watched the same game as some other people.ie have seen a number of people comment about Daniels delivery,now am i mistaken but when we had all those corners in the first didnt 2/3 he took look like they were for the linesman on the far side.Yep the CBKs didnt play well but really should it all be laid at their feet,seems to me there were some who became invisible in the 2nd half.Its hard enough in this league with a full team but when some of your players go missing in action its dam near impossible.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yep exactly what I've been thinking. Top post ballane.

a.haak

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Top post. The reason everyone wants a quick fix is because having a winning professional soccer team in our backyard is an amazing feeling. We have all had a taste and we want more! Hopefully it is sooner than we think
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I'm impressed ballane, a rationale football supporter! I agree, but also understand that the last thing we want is to kept NZ�s rep and fear that our resent performances will inhibit that from meeting the potential.  We want the supporters to grow and people to switch onto football.  Everyone wants the Phoenix team to do so well and the frustration comes from the passion they have for the game.  I say to them to get it all off their chest, it�s only because of their love of the game, it brings the worst and the best out of people.  It�s great that they feel so strongly.  I still think we have a great team at �the Ring of Fire�.  I suspect they are putting enough pressure on themselves and just need us to continue supporting them more than anything else.  Some of it is probably the pressure they are putting on themselves is why we are making amateur mistakes.  They also need to remember they are professionals and expectations come with that.  Why can't time just go faster and they just be up to speed now???!!!  But where's the challenge in that aye???!!!  Patients and time.  Are those even in a teenagers vocab these days????!!!

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Good post Ballane.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
good post. Losing is part of the game as much as winning - and drawing. And perhaps losing teaches you to harden up, and if the team doesn't fall apart, they can improve from this.

See Perth on saturday? They were leading, then with 4' to go they were losing 3-2 and still found the heart to get the equalizer (and in the very last play of the game they almost got the winner).
 
Obviously the defence hasn't improved in the game with Adelaide - but the attack has. At least we scored first. So let's see both sides of the picture. The defence and midfield didn't impress, obviously, so Ricky will work on that.
 
And don't forget that when things go wrong, anything that comes around is a nice surprise..so you never know - on friday we might find that a draw, or who knows a win, might lift the team spirits!

I want to reiterate: we have QUALITY players. The results will come. This is a new team with under 20's and some inexperienced people, but they're all (90%) valuable players who can do well in the A-League. Give them time.

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Let's also remember that Adelaide are a fcuking good side - them tearing Melbourne Victory a new arsehole a couple of weeks ago was an indication of how good they are.
 
People seem to think that we were playing the Womens Auxillary Ballon Corp, and got done over.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Let's also remember that Adelaide are a fcuking good side - them tearing Melbourne Victory a new arsehole a couple of weeks ago was an indication of how good they are.
 
People seem to think that we were playing the Womens Auxillary Ballon Corp, and got done over.
 
Maybe we should suggest them to get into anal surgical recontruction..I've heard there is a lot of money in that field! :D

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Before we win, we have to learn how to lose with grace and knowledge. This is part of our mental strategy, and shows how we develop.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I've also had the feeling that some people here and in the media just think we will stroll into this league and be in the top four. As News has said at least a thousand times i'll be happy if we don't finish last. I agree with that.
 For me it's a lot more about what happens in the off season and how that improves us next season.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sanday wrote:
I've also had the feeling that some people here and in the media just think we will stroll into this league and be in the top four. As News has said at least a thousand times i'll be happy if we don't finish last. I agree with that.
 For me it's a lot more about what happens in the off season and how that improves us next season.
 
that's what Ricky has being saying for the whole time as well..it's not as much what happens this season, as much as next year. I think we should keep the youngsters, such as O'Dor and Old, but to have two center defenders whose age added together makes only 40..than that is stretching it a bit.

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Football fans are the same the world over, it's what makes the game.  As a ticket buying supporter I believe you have the right to an opinion and that opinion will change week in week out depending on the last 90 minutes played.  Venting frustration, giving opinions on players, picking who you think should be in or out, it all shows one thing, that you care.  It's passion!! 
 
Being down on your team isn't just a NZ thing, again it's football.....The following is a quote from a Derby supporter who was no doubt singing the players and managers praises 3 months ago for delivering him the Holy Land of the Premiership.    And now.......
 
"Yes it is true about the gulf and the widening thereof between the championship and premiership but what was laid up this afternoon was shameful.

Not the fact that Everton were made to look quality (a trait that they have in abundance) but this game showed off our lack of quality and our managers alarming ignorance.

How does Fagan get a game? Anybody that convinces me that he is worthy must have messiah characteristics. He'd struggle to play for Leicester city IMO.
Same goes for Lewis. The absolute same.
These players must either be awesome in training, day in day out or the first ones to offer to clean Davies' alloys on his Audi A4 because from the perspective of making an impact on match days then i just do not see it.
Barnes must have received news on his Blackberry prior to the game that there were several scouts in the crowd as he was playing a different game to one i was watching as he is quite clearly playing with his price tag hanging out the back of his shirt!
Yeah yeah yeah, Everton were quality, played to the strengths of Yakubu and there always seemed an easy pass on as their pacy and classy ridden midfield always dictated the pace of the game.
Tactics? This was the biggest failing in my opinion (despite the Fagan episode) the tactics employed were abysmal. Against some of the strongest and biggest centre halves nobody seemed to grasp that playing the long ball simply wasn't viable.
I really could go on about Pearson drifting in and out, Derby not having one "impact player" in their midst but slamming them when they're down isn't the done thing.

For the posters who didn't go today let me tell you that 0-2 really flattered Derby and unless something dramatic happens between now and May then that smell of inevitability that was around in August will almost be choking."
 
See it could be worse, we could support Derby!
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Or Leeds!

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rastus wrote:
Before we win, we have to learn how to lose with grace and knowledge. This is part of our mental strategy, and shows how we develop.
 
 
Sorry Rastus (or should I call you Sun Tzu?), but what the hell are you going on about ? This is footy not some sort of Zen Samurai warfare. I would be glad just getting the defense to clear dangerous balls, close down opposing attackers and learn how to defend corners.
 
As Confucius say, "Back Four must get their sh*t together or b*gger off!"

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ballane for PM (that's Prime minister, not personal message)
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
chuckles wrote:
I'm Phoenix till I die!!! Agreed, I think that give the team a year together and then see how we are playing, rather than jump the gun and say we should sack half the team, lets get behind them and sing our lungs out and make the players feel confident that they have the fans support no matter what.
 
Exactly!
 
How long has this team spent playing together compared to some of the Aussie teams?
The Brazilians are still learning their English lol.
Imagine what they will be like in a few years.
 
Pheonix all the way!
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yea top post. really to tired to think of a comment tho.

keep it up ballane
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yes totally agree with the original post. Sport does this to you..... the rollercoaster ride, the highs of thrashing Perth 4-1 and then the lows of the last few weeks!!!
 
One thing that keeps me going is that the guys on the park really look like they are trying! They were gutted after that late goal by the Mariners and the bench at the end of the game against Adelaide.....well ,they all looked sick!!
 
I reckon the rot started when we lost the coach and 5 of our best players to world cup duty.The momentum of the season changed after that!
 
 How come Arsenal and Man U don't loose players mid season to World Cup Qualifiers.?
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think we've seen enough so far to know this team has great potential. We're all unhappy with the recent spate of losses and that makes us fans. To my mind, the glass is half full because:
 
1. This league is a very good one with quality players throughout.
2. We can score goals, most poorly performing teams let in goals and don't score any.
3. We have some young players who will only get better at playing at this level.
4. We have a very good fan base.
5. We have only been together for a short time and in this quality league it will take a little time for us to kick ar** on a regular basis.
 
Tune in to Radio sport right now - los eis talking about the Nix and inviting callers.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i think its bit unfair to judge people about what they said when they were frurious about losing 4 1 i mean i was angry at old and our defence and game in general but ill still be at the next game cheering my lungs out and the games after that
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
pedersen wrote:
i think its bit unfair to judge people about what they said when they were frurious about losing 4 1 i mean i was angry at old and our defence and game in general but ill still be at the next game cheering my lungs out and the games after that


if people write something down about our lads they run the risk of -  in your words -  "being judged"

ask mallard or Pantelidis about the costs of reacting when angry,

how about just writing the post, reading the post preview  and then deleting it - unless you are prepared to stand by what you've written

a while back someone tried the "i was pissed" justification, "I was angry" doesn't cut it either, in my view

to  be fair your posts weren't as OT as some but i still reckon if we write stuff we can't then say - "oh yeah i never meant it"
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
pedersen wrote:
i think its bit unfair to judge people about what they said when they were frurious about losing 4 1 i mean i was angry at old and our defence and game in general but ill still be at the next game cheering my lungs out and the games after that


*sound of violin in the background*
I like tautologies because I like them.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Thanks Ballane and the rest of you for a whole bunch of really sensible posts. As a long-suffering Bristol Rovers supporter (I would say "fan", but they're usually too crap for that accolade;-) I know more than most that it can take a long time for success to come ... and after 40-odd years I'm still looking forward it.

Anyway, a final comment: many of the gloom merchants in the media seem to be either one-eyed Aussies or one-eyed rugby commentators ... Consider the Western Force who finished a comprehensive last in their first Super 14 season in 2006 ... Yep, they learnt a lot from that and rose to the challenge to finish 7th in 2007, and good for them and John Mitchell. Rugby might be a daft game, but this makes my point.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah spot on post Ballane - I am certainly Phoenix til I die.  I was enjoying the great start but in my heart had prepared for the reality of first season football......but my support is as strong as ever and I know the boys need me more now than when they're winning 3-1 at home and I'm screaming "we want four".

There is quality in this squad and there are masterplans in Ricki's head, building blocks and foundation laying....we were just a little spoiled in the beginning of our fairytail....

Now, lets get on that fax machine and follow C-Diddys lead and send faxes of support to the boys hotel in Perth.

TilI die.....

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Just gonna put a voice to one of those groups mentioned in the original post (and what's with the 'great post' appreciation society in this thread anyways?) 

I fit into the group of supporters that don't live in the city where the football is, and I spose that is quite a few of us.  I tune into the Phoenix every week, and unfortunately have got a little tired of pulling my hair out at the average quality football I have seen.  I used to cheer on the Knights and Kingz and It followed the same pattern.  Cue the high and mighty fans mortally offended at the comparism, but please, be honest! 
 
What it comes down to for me, the outta town supporter, is that should I tune into a team I have no 'physical' support for, or will I watch and enjoy another game that has plenty of quality.  A perfect example is last weeks matches.  Watched 3 of the 4 matches and thoroughly enjoyed the 3-3 thriller with Perth and Queensland and got angry at the Phoenix.  Not sure if there are others in the same boat but for me I wonder why I spend the time watching?

I let my guitar speak for me

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
That's your call, VimFuego, but I think by definition a 'supporter' supports their team, not just watches them when they are entertaining. Call yourself a 'sports fan' in that case. I'm an out of town supporter too: what the heck does, what you call 'physical' support, have to do with it? Sure I watched the 2nd half of Sydney v CCM - nice game, good goals, etc - but it was only when the Phoenix, OUR team, came onto the pitch that the heart really started thumping.
 
That's the difference, mate, and that's what the people in this thread are driving at: they're YOUR team too if you want them, in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health, a real live Wellington professional football team. Nothing to do with being high and mighty.
 
btw, 149 posts to your name, so unless you're just one of those serial poster types then I think you are just a bit more of a 'supporter' than you're letting on....Next time let the guitar speak for you.
 
 
 
 
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tigers wrote:
pedersen wrote:
i think its bit unfair to judge people about what they said when they were frurious about losing 4 1 i mean i was angry at old and our defence and game in general but ill still be at the next game cheering my lungs out and the games after that


if people write something down about our lads they run the risk of -  in your words -  "being judged"

ask mallard or Pantelidis about the costs of reacting when angry,

how about just writing the post, reading the post preview  and then deleting it - unless you are prepared to stand by what you've written

a while back someone tried the "i was pissed" justification, "I was angry" doesn't cut it either, in my view

to  be fair your posts weren't as OT as some but i still reckon if we write stuff we can't then say - "oh yeah i never meant it"
 
 
to be fair most of the stuff I put up were meant as jokes theres nothing better than a good laugh to make you forget about your loss even though most of my jokes made people cringe instead of laugh
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