Wellington Phoenix Men

The fans deserve better than this...

70 replies · 1,053 views
over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The fans deserve better than this...
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm a season ticket holder (and I've been to an away game!!) so I think my 'hardcore' credentials aren't in doubt...but I came away from the game today wondering if I'm being conned.
 
I realise that the team  only exists because some Oriental Bay 'new money' wanted to be the Pak 'n' Save version of  Roman Abramovich...and that the manager spends more time thinking "Will it be Paraguay or Chile in the play-offs"? than he does about team formations...and that EVERYBODY thinks an hour of David Beckham playing jet-lagged keepy-uppy is more important than a '20 goals a season' striker...but still....today was pretty woeful and it's time some people admitted it.
 
I sit in the 'gold' section near the centre line, surrounded by decent people...lots of youngsters and families, lots of potential long-term fans...and, to be honest, today was just an embarrassment. One good goal, granted...but otherwise a total lack of sense or direction or purpose, leading to moments of schoolboy level playing that ended, all too predictably, with a defeat.
 
I'm not expecting miracles from a team that's only a few months old, but the fact is that the other teams in the A-League aren't especially good and a decent manager should be able to play to home strengths and fashion a better side than we saw today. The fans (not the over-hyped 'fever zone' bunch, who are content to turn into a bunch of 'stoners' whenever the team goes a goal down) deserve more than this.
 
Any thoughts?
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
what the hell are you dong sitting ?
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The nix players actually looked hungry for the ball and were getting in there to make tackles which I was happy with for a start, we managed to challenge them in midfield rather than letting our opponents run amok.  We got a lot of ball forward and attacks going but just lacked finishing/shots at goal... that's hardly something to have a tanty about and claim you're losing your faith.

btw - "over-hyped 'fever zone' bunch" ?  What forum do you think you're on?
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
As rants go, Avid, yours is fairly well structured, but it is still a rant.

Now that you've vented your spleen, you may feel a little better.

Like you I'm disappointed with the result, but i've not lost sight of the great flowing football i've witnessed v Melbourne x2, Sydney x2, Perth.

Perspective.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nickel wrote:

btw - "over-hyped 'fever zone' bunch" ?  What forum do you think you're on?
 
I'm being provocative.
 
Think of the first post as a 'verbal bottle' being chucked at the sleepy fans....
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tigers wrote:

Like you I'm disappointed with the result, but i've not lost sight of the great flowing football i've witnessed v Melbourne x2, Sydney x2, Perth.

Perspective.
 
Well...yes, there's nothing more exciting than roaring the team on to a home draw but, again, there's no reason why it couldn't be better.
 
To be fair, some of the players looked genuinely gutted at the end.  I'm not blaming them.
 
'Lions led by donkeys', etc. 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hey Avid be careful you cannot say anything against this mob without being cautioned. I see your reasoning and I caught a flight back from Auckland (watching the Lions) so I could watch the Nix game.

I too was disappointed and apart from Elrich I think the players need a good kick up the arse.

Cory Jane would be better at right back than Christie, he turns slower than Lomu, every week  the opposition out pace him on the outside and as for that cockup at the end what a effin disgrace.

btw If you want to sit and watch the footy thats up to you.

  
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
On a positive note, I'm watching the replay on Sky Sports 1 at the moment. The singing by the fans has been nearly non stop and VERY loud. Well done everyone, it's sounds awesome on TV!
 
 
And Harry Ngata has given a very fair assessment of things!
Lonegunmen2007-10-22 00:59:18
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What the hell is this crap? We have obvious defensive frailties but apart from that we didn't do THAT much wrong.

Just another complete over reaction by a fan disappointed after a loss. Move along.

It's our first season, for gods sake. All of the other teams have had 2 to get settled in and used to combinations - this is especially telling in defence.


valeo2007-10-22 02:08:35

a.haak

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Avid makes some valid points.  We have to wake up to the fact we are not good enough yet and stop all the self congatulation about how loud the fans are etc. 
 
Didn't do much wrong Valeo?  We made three schoolboy errors at the back (I include the pen here) that you can't expect to make at any level and get away with. 
 
Daniel had a poor game by his standards, our passing and crossing in the final third was abysmal and I can't recall their keeper making a proper save whereas Moss was busy all afternoon.  To top it off, I thought the substitution was also poor.  You don't bring a kid on for his debut when you are trying to win the game against the league leaders.  That's the sort of substition you make when you are 3-1 up. 
 
A depressing day all round.  We DO deserve better than this and the sh*t they played last week.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
avid wrote:
I'm a season ticket holder (and I've been to an away game!!) so I think my 'hardcore' credentials aren't in doubt...but I came away from the game today wondering if I'm being conned.
 
I realise that the team  only exists because some Oriental Bay 'new money' wanted to be the Pak 'n' Save version of  Roman Abramovich...and that the manager spends more time thinking "Will it be Paraguay or Chile in the play-offs"? than he does about team formations...and that EVERYBODY thinks an hour of David Beckham playing jet-lagged keepy-uppy is more important than a '20 goals a season' striker...but still....today was pretty woeful and it's time some people admitted it.
 
I sit in the 'gold' section near the centre line, surrounded by decent people...lots of youngsters and families, lots of potential long-term fans...and, to be honest, today was just an embarrassment. One good goal, granted...but otherwise a total lack of sense or direction or purpose, leading to moments of schoolboy level playing that ended, all too predictably, with a defeat.
 
I'm not expecting miracles from a team that's only a few months old, but the fact is that the other teams in the A-League aren't especially good and a decent manager should be able to play to home strengths and fashion a better side than we saw today. The fans (not the over-hyped 'fever zone' bunch, who are content to turn into a bunch of 'stoners' whenever the team goes a goal down) deserve more than this.
 
Any thoughts?
 
  your just stoned all the time then are you ??   
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
avid wrote:
 
and that the manager spends more time thinking "Will it be Paraguay or Chile in the play-offs"?

Don`t you mean Iraq or Australia?
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think we did ok but were let down by two soft goals. If we are going to win we need to sort the D out first we are yet to have a clean sheet.
 
Odor has done well but looked very poor tonight, so maybe Clebs or old will come in.
 
Whoever had a go at christie watch the game again, bar for the lapse at the end he was our best back, he made good runs, won every 50 50 and never stopped.
 
We now need to win our next two away games.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

don't agree a at all.

I just think you're gutted - which I understand cause so am I - and you're taking a bit of your frustration out in this post.
 
The team played one of the best games of the season. They fought and almost snatched a 1-1 draw. And we all know that sitting on a 1-1 anything can happen.
The CCM have been extremely lucky to get that goal - even though even my grandpa would have scored that - but it's luck nonetheless.
 
If there is anything to critizice, and I'm here for this too, I think Ricky should have made all 3 changes and way earlier in the game.
 
We had LIA and ELRICH who were running with their HEART, not theri LEGS. They were visibly tired and obviously, although they play such a nice game, would have benefitted from a change.

Plus you had what, 4 or 5 all whites who played on Wednesday in Fiji..people like Lochhead who runs 20miles per game...give them a change and KEEP ATTACKING. That's how we would've won that game.
There was a phase in the 2nd half where we were attacking like nuts. But Lia was cramping, poor Elrich was trying his best, Daniel and Smeltz needed an extra hand..if Costa or George had been in there, you never know we would have snatched a win.
 
and now we would all be talking about what a great game the Nix played

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
avid wrote:
I'm a season ticket holder (and I've been to an away game!!) so I think my 'hardcore' credentials aren't in doubt...but I came away from the game today wondering if I'm being conned.
 
I realise that the team  only exists because some Oriental Bay 'new money' wanted to be the Pak 'n' Save version of  Roman Abramovich...and that the manager spends more time thinking "Will it be Paraguay or Chile in the play-offs"? than he does about team formations...and that EVERYBODY thinks an hour of David Beckham playing jet-lagged keepy-uppy is more important than a '20 goals a season' striker...but still....today was pretty woeful and it's time some people admitted it.
 
I sit in the 'gold' section near the centre line, surrounded by decent people...lots of youngsters and families, lots of potential long-term fans...and, to be honest, today was just an embarrassment. One good goal, granted...but otherwise a total lack of sense or direction or purpose, leading to moments of schoolboy level playing that ended, all too predictably, with a defeat.
 
I'm not expecting miracles from a team that's only a few months old, but the fact is that the other teams in the A-League aren't especially good and a decent manager should be able to play to home strengths and fashion a better side than we saw today. The fans (not the over-hyped 'fever zone' bunch, who are content to turn into a bunch of 'stoners' whenever the team goes a goal down) deserve more than this.
 
Any thoughts?
 
 
First and formost I don't see were the money that backs our football team comes from. Would you feel better if it was Peter Jackson or maybe even Russel Crowe he seems to like supporting sport teams. Personally I would rather have Ricki just coach the all whites or just coach the phoenix but were New Zealand Football is at the moment I just don't think that is productive. This way we have a chance of Getting to 2010 and a chance of making the A-league play offs.
 
Yes yesterday was bad, however both goals were from individual errors - Christies and O'dors - Ricki can't be faulted for individual errors as last time I checked the players aren't robots. Most people agree on this forum that our defense is woeful the stats prove it and we all regualarly admit it. We all want to see a stronger defense but at this point there isn't much Ricki can do. We just don't have the depth back there to continually swap people around. Hopefully today was a wake up call for them, and they improve their communication.
 
As for the fans 99.99 percent of the people on this forum Stand in the fever zone. I belive that we play a big part in the atmosphere of the stadium and are just as much a part of the game as the players are. (this will hopefully change in the future and people will go for the game first then the atmosphere second) But to accuse of stoners is a bit harsh. Only one or two bottles were thrown from up the back I did not see thousands of them pelting the Central Coast players so please don't tar us with the same brush
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sanday wrote:
avid wrote:
 
and that the manager spends more time thinking "Will it be Paraguay or Chile in the play-offs"?

Don`t you mean Iraq or Australia?
 
Yes I do!  I wrote the original post way past my bedtime...so errors were bound to creep in.
 
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Just out of interest Avid, would you still be making the post if we hadn't made two defensive stuff-ups and had won the game 1-0?
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
avid wrote:
sanday wrote:
avid wrote:
 
and that the manager spends more time thinking "Will it be Paraguay or Chile in the play-offs"?

Don`t you mean Iraq or Australia?
 
Yes I do!  I wrote the original post way past my bedtime...so errors were bound to creep in.
 
 

Righto.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Lots of interesting replies to my post, good to see a range of fair comment.
 
Attacking my own post...I'd say that, whilst not especially liking the owner..it's his money and he can do what he likes with it.....though with  home gates of over 10,000 surely there must be quite a bit of cash flowing back into his pockets even at this early stage, no??
 
As for the manger, no point complaining about him because, unless anyone has any other ideas, I can't think of a realistically better replacement.
 
And as for the 'fever zone' once they stop chucking bottles and sing twice as loud when the team concede a goal, they'll guarantee the title of 'best fans in the league'. The potential is there.
 
Again, that's what my first post was mainly about....the Phoenix having such great potential and pissing it away. I'm not moaning because we lost a game...I think my avatar shows I'm used to a life of shabby defeats...I was moaning because I feel that with a bit more focus this league is there for the taking.  But if the owner is a 'starf**ker' and the manger thinks in terms of training matches for the national team then it'll all end in tears.
 
Which basically means if they played an attacking 4-4-2 every home game I'd stop moaning... 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bigtobz wrote:
Just out of interest Avid, would you still be making the post if we hadn't made two defensive stuff-ups and had won the game 1-0?
 
Probably...I've been wanting to bitch about the owner and manager for a while and I think the shoddy nature of the defeat pushed me over the edge.
 
(Hears chant.....)
 
"You only post when we're losing...."
 
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Advid. I think ya need to get a bit of perpective.  Yeah there are a few defensive things to sort out and yeah your opinon stands on all the other stuff . But the Picture is way bigger than that Bro.
 
At the end of the day being just because you have a season pass doen't make you hardcore or any better than the gate paying fan. hardcore is being optimistic about coming results and the sucess of the club in the future and being there to the end ....even if all is lost ........the hardcore still believe.
 
If you want hardcore and a miricle, the fella's of YF are hardcore, the amount of time and effort they have put into getting the profile of football lifted in WGTN is nothing short of a F**king miricle considering the majority of the public's hooplaa about the oval ball WC and the stigma's of their predecessors Kinights and Kings.
 
If you want hard core, the kids that get up every Monday of every school week hoping and dreaming that someone from the Phoenix comes to their school unannounced and has a few kicks with them........ I have the creditals knowing this as do thethe other few thousand parents that  that march with their kids to the game when ever they can. My boy was livered and all most in tears last night, but he still woke up wanting to have kicks at the part and pull "Allrich" moves.
 
As for the Oriental Bay "New Money", that's pretty harsh. Even though you weren't looking for miricles ....There is your micle, if it wasn't for Terry and Ricki we would have had the oval ball game stuck so far down our throat's that WGTN and NZ fotball would have been F**ked full stop. 
 
Don't let your disapointment for a loss become a path to practicing witch hunts.
 
Lets embrace every chance we have to keep the Fooball & the Phoenix alive and kick in WGTN and NZ.
 
 
 
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
Probably...I've been wanting to bitch about the owner and manager for a while and I think the shoddy nature of the defeat pushed me over the edge.
 
(Hears chant.....)
 
"You only post when we're losing...."
 
 A tad harsh....9 games into a season.....that would not exist if it hadn't been for both the owner and manager (I believe the former was not prepared to take the punt without the latter?).
 
Clearly after decades of Wycombe's mediocrity you would be entitled to have a rant, but this context is entirely different...at this stage, at least. 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bedubb76 wrote:
Advid. I think ya need to get a bit of perpective.  Yeah there are a few defensive things to sort out and yeah your opinon stands on all the other stuff . But the Picture is way bigger than that Bro.
 
At the end of the day being just because you have a season pass doen't make you hardcore or any better than the gate paying fan. hardcore is being optimistic about coming results and the sucess of the club in the future and being there to the end ....even if all is lost ........the hardcore still believe.
 
If you want hardcore and a miricle, the fella's of YF are hardcore, the amount of time and effort they have put into getting the profile of football lifted in WGTN is nothing short of a F**king miricle considering the majority of the public's hooplaa about the oval ball WC and the stigma's of their predecessors Kinights and Kings.
 
If you want hard core, the kids that get up every Monday of every school week hoping and dreaming that someone from the Phoenix comes to their school unannounced and has a few kicks with them........ I have the creditals knowing this as do thethe other few thousand parents that  that march with their kids to the game when ever they can. My boy was livered and all most in tears last night, but he still woke up wanting to have kicks at the part and pull "Allrich" moves.
 
As for the Oriental Bay "New Money", that's pretty harsh. Even though you weren't looking for miricles ....There is your micle, if it wasn't for Terry and Ricki we would have had the oval ball game stuck so far down our throat's that WGTN and NZ fotball would have been F**ked full stop. 
 
Don't let your disapointment for a loss become a path to practicing witch hunts.
 
Lets embrace every chance we have to keep the Fooball & the Phoenix alive and kick in WGTN and NZ.
  
 
I was being 'tongue-in-cheek' when I said I was 'hardcore' but, still, a very fair post.
 
I agree with you, the fans have been a revelation...far bigger numbers and commitment than I ever thought would happen. Which is why they deserve a lot better than yesterday's game.
 
And this message board serves an important purpose. I'd sooner rant and rave on here than take out my frustrations in the stadium.  I've seen (in the UK) some shocking abuse of teams by the home fans...I don't think the Phoenix players deserve any criticism. 
 
And yes....just keep saying "At least it's not rugby" when times are hard....I'll make a point of doing that in future.
avid2007-10-22 10:41:01
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Clearly after decades of Wycombe's mediocrity you would be entitled to have a rant, but this context is entirely different...at this stage, at least. 
 
Well, yes..it's an odd context isn't it?  It's like being a Man U fan in the days when they were still called Newton Heath...which makes everything still a bit 'unreal', if you know what I mean.
 
 
 
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Good on ya Avid..........

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
avid wrote:
bigtobz wrote:
Just out of interest Avid, would you still be making the post if we hadn't made two defensive stuff-ups and had won the game 1-0?
 
Probably...I've been wanting to bitch about the owner and manager for a while and I think the shoddy nature of the defeat pushed me over the edge.
 
(Hears chant.....)
 
"You only post when we're losing...."
 
 
 
Fair enough- entitled to your opinion. Agree with Tigers- well structured post. Certainly don't agree with all thats been said but can understand where you are coming from.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

when our defense hoofs it, they are criticised
- now, they are critised for not hoofing it enough

when Clebbo's playing, everyone say get rid of Clebbo, he can't turn etc.
- now, people want Clebbo instead of O'dor

when we beat Perth 4-1 and Daniel played a blinder, he was lauded like anything
- now, he's too showy and we should have bought better imports

in other games, people wanted Costa to be given a run to try something new
- now, people complain that Costa shouldn't have been brought on cos he's too young and inexperienced

MAKE UP YOUR MINDS you can't have it both ways and pretend to have all the answers when we lose cos you don't

sorry this is just for some people that are pissing me off, not the majority that see this game as it really was, a hard fought battle that could've gone either way

as for hassling Terry, without him we wouldn't be having this discussion so grow a brain

I like tautologies because I like them.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
solution: stay at home and wtach re-runs of Only Fools and Horses. Problem solved. Feverish2007-10-22 11:07:44

Founder

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
solution: stay at home and wtach re-runs of Only Fools and Horses. Problem solved.
 
Only the 30 minute episodes, though...the show went downhill when they changed to the 50 minute format.
 
(and Buster Merryfield was a rubbish sub...)
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
solution: stay at home and wtach re-runs of Only Fools and Horses. Problem solved.


Thats the attitude Feverish, thats what happened with the knights and kingz 10,000+ one week 8000 the next 4000 the next and hello feverish and a few mates are sitting in the stand wondering where it all went wrong.

I warned you last week when it was all still roses that cracks will appear,  read the forum there are people not happy with where things are going.

Your answer is if you dont like it leave or cut them well if you want balance accept criticism.

 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tem for next week.unlikely but I want:
 
                                      Paston
 
       Lia                 O'Dor             Dodd             Lochead
 
 
                              Brown             Aloisi     
 
    Elrich                                                                Daniel
                                         Felipe
 
                                       Smeltz
 
Bench: Moss
           Old
           Ferrante
           Coveny
          
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

the fans deserve better than this... so true...

the fans deserve OLD.

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
felipe wrote:
tem for next week.unlikely but I want:
 
                                      Paston
 
       Lia                 O'Dor             Dodd             Lochead
 
 
                              Brown             Aloisi     
 
    Elrich                                                                Daniel
                                         Felipe
 
                                       Smeltz
 
Bench: Moss
           Old
           Ferrante
           Coveny
          


pretty much what i want as well, haven't thought about the reserves though.

 think plodder deserves to be dropped not just because of the cock up at the end but i am pretty sure he messed up the chance where he was in behind ccm with the ball with smeltz and elrich both free in the box with only the keeper to beat.  Alos they had to swap elrich and daniel at the half cos cristie was to slow to give elrich the ball.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zinger wrote:
Feverish wrote:
solution: stay at home and wtach re-runs of Only Fools and Horses. Problem solved.


Thats the attitude Feverish, thats what happened with the knights and kingz 10,000+ one week 8000 the next 4000 the next and hello feverish and a few mates are sitting in the stand wondering where it all went wrong.

I warned you last week when it was all still roses that cracks will appear,  read the forum there are people not happy with where things are going.

Your answer is if you dont like it leave or cut them well if you want balance accept criticism.

 
 
most of what he wrote was a load of crap. Did Terry build him a dodgy house or something? Go to Old Trafford if you expect Premier league. Im saying just appreciate having great footy in your own backyard. Nobody said it was going to be easy, the gaff has assembled a great team, so lets get behind them though think and thin.

Founder

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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
                                      Paston
 
       Lia                 O'Dor             Dodd             Lochead
 
 
                                       Aloisi     
 
    Elrich                                                                Daniel
                                         Felipe
 
                           Smeltz                        Coveny/brownlie       
 
 
Bench: Moss
           Old
           Tim Brown
           Coveny/Brownlie
 
how ever I dunno if i would play it this week as Elrich cannot run a whole game yet.
          
 
 
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
most of what he wrote was a load of crap. Did Terry build him a dodgy house or something?
 
No, he sold me a bag of talcum powder...
 
 
 
avid2007-10-22 12:02:29
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
avid wrote:
The fans (not the over-hyped 'fever zone' bunch, who are content to turn into a bunch of 'stoners' whenever the team goes a goal down) deserve more than this.
 
Any thoughts?
 
 
over hyped?? stoners?? and heres you sitting in the gold zone , SITTING ... are you one of those fans that will end up turning up if a team has a winning streak, and wont bother turning up if the team loses??
 
You seem like a fan that doesn't deserve anything more.
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
over hyped?? stoners?? and heres you sitting in the gold zone , SITTING ... are you one of those fans that will end up turning up if a team has a winning streak, and wont bother turning up if the team loses??
 
You seem like a fan that doesn't deserve anything more.
 
 
Well...I'm not a young buck anymore, you know...But I'll be there to the bitter end, I promise you.
 
 
Better not tell anybody I almost bought a 'platinum package'.......
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over 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

avid, I hope there won't be a 'bitter end'. I've had two of those already.

It just pees me off that Tambo and Buncey aren't there in the centre of defence, when I see these errors. I think Dood has done really well and would make a good pairing with either of them. We need three strong centre backs to choose from, not 15 midfielders and strikers.

Thats not even mentioning right back!

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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