The referees

I thought one of the big issues underlying the ref's performance was his inability to set the standard and then stick to it...for example, there were a few instances of same type challenges first being a foul, then not, and then being a foul again. That's incredibly frustrating for both players and fans, and generally means that the ref doesn't have control of the game like he should.

I some what agree although to be fair, the TV picture doesn't do justice to what you see on TV and what you actually see at ground level 5 yards from the incident. Sometimes you get the illusion of something happening that hasn't due to the proximity of the picture and the angle viewing it.

My thoughts were based on watching the game live from the Fever zone, but obviously I didn't have as good a view as the fluoro-shirt in the middle. He just struck me as inexperienced at this level although I don't really know if he is or isn't.

On another matter, the asst refs were pretty poor too - at the Daniel penalty incident, the asst ref hung around in his position seemingly wanting to flag for a foul, but hesitated and didn't in the end. The other guy let an Adelaide clearance curve out of play and back in to an Adelaide player in a dangerous attacking position - a seemingly inoucuous mistake but he got a fair amount of flak from the Fever zone for that one. That pretty much summed up what was a sub-standard performance from the refereeing trio.

Ben Williams is their 4th ranked I think. He was the referee that was assaulted/pushed at the world club champ qualifiers by the islander guy at North Harbour some 18 months ago I think in a match against Manawatu.

They have a mic communication system. While I'm guessing, it would look bloody stupid if the AR flagged for it and got waved down so they may well have talked via the mic?? In the end, you can't blame the AR for not blowing the whistle, thats the referees job although I can understand why average jo would blame the AR for that decision not being given. Also the area where the penalty occurred is notorious for being a problem zone for penalties due to angles/blindspots. FIFA have identified that in their referee coaching. Players in the EPL are now coached to get into that same area of the box and if they get touched, go down because it not a good control zone. We didn't really watch the ARs but their offsides seemed ok, one was on the line for the goal decision. If missing a ball in an out of play is his worse offense of the evening (bearing in mind he was there for the big 1, the goal that wasn't) then thats not too much to gripe about in view of the ARs.
DrQuack322007-09-23 18:02:19

I wasn't blaming him for the non-penalty decision, it just struck me as odd at the time that he seemingly thought it was a foul yet didn't signal it. If they're miked up, that's probably a reasonable explanation. I agree that he got the off-the-line clearance right, but the clearance going out of play and back in decision was the other guy.

My apologies sir. I was not having a go at you in any shape or form. I appreciate your post - reasoned. I have to work on the tone in my posts. Good day to you sir.

Overall I thought the ref had a very poor game.  Baffling petty decisions, not booking bad tackles, too much whistle.  Can I pont out that the linos are of course local boys, so all this talk of conspiracies is a bit OTT. 

What abiut the call from the Linesman when the header went in the goal but was headed back out and play carried on. We'd won 3-2!

I don't think that was a goal. Didn't feel like it watching it live, and the replays I've seen haven't made me change that opinion.

Well seeing as the AR had already been overruled on a corner decision when the penalty incident occurred I wouldn't have expected him to got out his way to call a penalty when the referee wasn't going to.

Hm, it was unconsistant bullcrap. :)

Full time Referees = better quality officiating

As I know the pay rates I can tell you that the referees aren't exactly out of pocket either....

MARQUEE REFEREES  ...

that mark shields would be a full time ref and he was Sh*t when he was reffing a Wellington Game

Before the Melbourne game, i spoke to an aussie in the pub and he said they knew the Phoenix were going to be physical all season. How???? They hadn't played a competitive game! If a fan thinks it, what do you think the refs do?

Mark Shields is not a full time referee. They had plans to try and get 2 full timers but FFA couldn't afford it. Mark is the CEO of his own company.

Isn't it all part of the game?

After Saturday performance, he's not even a referee, let alone full time.

I hardly think that Jose M has a fair and balanced opinion of referees - why put your hand up for your own deficiencies when you can blame a scapegoat with no right of reply.

As a ref who has now called it quits, mainly because of bad knees. Having watched a number of A League games and been to all 3 of the Nix home games, I am just amazed at the poor standard of both the refs and their assisstances (linemen). One thing that is noticable is the vast inconsistances during the game and seemingly lack of judgement. I believe the worst by far was the ref and both linesmen on Saturday. I believe some refs have already formed opions about various players before even getting to the game. If this is the best that the FFA can do, there are some very real problems that need to be addressed. It is time for both NZFA and FFA to do something about training these guys properly and using FIFA experts to assisst these guys to help run the game and not ruin it. As I was told when first becoming a ref. a good ref should not be noticed by the players or spectators.

Eventually you'll learn to accept that there's only one good ref in the A-league:  Mark Shield, and that the rest are just completely inept rather than biased in any particular way.

You'll also learn to shake in fear at the mention of Matthew "random f**k" Breezes name, though you had him last week and Sydney were the kids complaining about the standard of refereeing, so maybe he's decided he likes you.

I don't mind Breeze, at least some of his random decisions do come your way.

Williams was just blatantly biased.  I don't think I've ever seen a more one-sided refereeing display in my life.

I agree FIFA needs to get involved.  For that standard of refereeing to be tolerated in a game that was meant to be all about fair play is just hypocritical and appalling.  I thought Ref's including the lineman who gets confused what hand his flag is in were supposed to go into a game without pre-conceived ideas about players or the team.  If Oceania Football wants to improve, so does the standard of the Ref�s.  Even at grass roots level the standard is very low with quiet a few of one eyed ref�s and politics getting involved between clubs and players.  If the standard of the referee�s doesn�t improve then Oceania Football will not improve.  For example look how Daniel has got the reputation of diving???!!!  Daniel is targeted fullstop.  Daniel is a threat therefore hard tackles are made, of course he is going to falling over and that is also taking into account of the theatre side of football.  A point needs to be made when such careless tackles are made.  Where is the yellow cards???!!!  The Aussie game is all about thuggish tactics if and when they can get away with it not sportsmanship.  You want to see beautiful football look at the Spanish Football, any team especially Baca.  It�s warfare on the ground between the Ozzies and Kiwi�s.  If a Ref wants to blow the whistle when a player hits the ground to turn the ball over, then where is the yellow card for diving or a late tackle???!!!  There hasn�t been one.  So why is the ball turned over?  Same old Aussies, always cheating.  The Ref�s are only letting themselves down in the end if they don�t step up and keep up with the game as they won�t have the honor of being apart of world football.  I suggest the league recruits referee�s as clubs recruit players.  There has to be some competitiveness between the ref�s to encourage them to improve.  There needs to be more incentives for the referee�s to become referee�s.  Can�t the Football Federation come up with overseas training/experience or encourage the high quality referee�s from overseas to visit New Zealand as they do with players?  REFREE�S AND OFFICALS GET WITH THE GAME! I think we all want New Zealand to be higher up on the FIFA ranking list.  So how are we going to get there?

Sadly you should get used to feeling that way.

We had Breeze on Friday night against Newcastle and there was ironic cheers in the pub when he finally awarded us our first free... in the 30th minute, in a game where they were playing quite physically.  It ended with Newcastle getting just less than twice as many free kicks as us despite playing just as, if not more, physical.

In the same game Newcastle supporters are claiming the ref was biased against them because he didn't send off panta in the 41st minute (which, to be fair, he should've been) when he only got a yellow card (that no-one apart from breeze realised he gave, but it's in the match statistics)

I mean, what can you do?

Bitch and moan about it mainly

What can we do??

Its funny that everyone implores that the FFA do something about it when ultimately, the best way to fix it is put your money where your mouth is and become a referee yourself, but then I'd just hear 'Oh no I could never do that. The abuse or some other bullsh*t reason'

More incentives to become a referee? Who do you charge, the clubs? So how do you justify increasing what a club pays when they think they are already getting shafted for the refereeing services that they pay for and receive? The clubs don't want to pay more nor increase players fees to fund paying referees better or the resources required so ultimately, aren't you getting what you paid for? The administration wont pay for it because they need to fund the game in a marketing sense so that people will watch the product so that TV will broadcast it so that sponsors come on board........ Hell they can't even get sponsors in NZ for the game, let alone look at something so worthy of funding referees. I'd happily go fulltime refereeing any day of the week, but I don't see someone standing there with 43k, car and phone plus 4 weeks annual leave.
Magnify that to Australia and big money sponsors like Hyundai (who is a FIFA partner) and they STILL can't afford referees to go fulltime. So how the hell are you going to bring in marquee referees or ones from other confederations when they can't afford to make the ones they have now better than part-time and by part-time comes the tag 'AMATEUR'

The best way to fix it? If you don't join us then simply STFU. People don't get into the refereeing because of the abuse leveled at them. I'm sure there are some people out there that are very intelligent and have a great understanding of the game and looking in this forum, I can see there are some brilliant people with amazing character and depth of knowledge in the game and they would be fantastic referees but its always 'Oh the abuse etc etc' which generally means that they are great at giving out abuse and soft cocks when it comes to taking it. Its hard enough running weekend academies teaching 16 year olds to want to be future Colinas or Shields or O'Learys without adding "Oh get use to the abuse." Kids just say "f**k that, we'd rather play X-Box/ do P/drink/boy race"

Referees are going to have bad games, just like players do. You wanna drop them for it? Sure ok, but then who do you bring in? People who are 2nd choice and weren't good enough to be there in the first place. How do you fix it? See up. Its a never ending cycle and it'll all get better when people lay off match officials.There is accountability, but its never instant publicly acknowledgeable accountability. It arrives in the form of end of season reviews. For 99% of supporters, that will never be good enough. Don't think that some referees don't walk off the park, look in the mirror and feel sh*thouse for the performance they have given and then think about it every day for a while. We do.

In the end referees choose to do this and like everything, there is a due process. Do any of you guys have a crap day at work and get fired? Rarely, and the same applies in refereeing. As Loki said, they had Breeze on Friday night and he was a lot bloody worse than Williams was. But then 2 weeks ago, I read that O'Leary was the worst someone has ever seen. Its just never stops

Sorry for the rant, its just that I hear people saying the same things that have been said for years. Its been said before, its been looked at before. Try to be a solution in fixing the situation, try being constructive. Once people get thanked for being a referee, the numbers will swell and the very best will rise to the top and you will see better referees. Until then, you'll only see the best that can handle the abuse for little money...
DrQuack322007-09-24 15:25:49

Daniel has to be very careful - if he continues to 'dive', under FIFA rules, he can be red carded!!

Well said DrQuack, the problem is that a good game by a ref is always ignored.

For instance Mark Shield's refereeing between us and CCM last week was absolutely spot on for every call, yet no-one says a word.  It's ironic how the best refereeing performances are the ones where you don't notice them.

Yes, we know refree's are human to.  They should also be professional and able to keep up with the game like the players have to.  If a player isn't in form, they don't play, nor should a referee ref.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Jesus my head almost fell laughing at that one.

We should be professional? Come spend a week with me during NZFC season and then tell me afterwards if I'm not professional and when I show you what I get paid for MY effort, you tell me if you would do the same. PM me, I'll gladly give you all of my details and would wholeheartedly encourage you to come along and be involved with everything I do over the course of the week. OH Oh and then, when I barter myself out to the highest bidder, I don't want to see you ever accuse me of being a cheat and selling out to the team that pays me the most money.

And what do I get out of it??? The joy of being involved in a good football game you twat!!!!

Diving comes under Unsporting Behaviour and is not a red card offence (unless its a 2nd yellow and then gets shown a red card)

DrQuack32, our very own "ask the ref".

Sonya - overseas officials have come to NZ to do training/sessions/seminars - I believe both Hugh Dallas(SPL - done loads of WC/EC/CL stuff) and David Ellary (EPL - I think it was he that was famously pushed over by Di Canio) have been over in recent years (Although I can't confirm exactly in what capacity - DrQuack might know better than I)

This is why I say that he has to be careful, 10 players are better than 11, particularly if he is going to be targeted constantly, which I believe will now happen given some of the histrionics that Daniel [bless him] has displayed on TV broadcasts. The Italians are the same, as are many South American teams - what it needs is for someone [NZ, OZ or European player] to have a quiet word in his [Daniel's] ear. He is too good to be red carded.

Elleray was out here last year. I went to his course and got a hellish insight to what he went through. Couldn't referee at Old Trafford for 12 months, house wired on a buzzer to the cop shop, guarded by the home office on 24 hour surveillance, death threats constant, having his mail at school screened for Anthrax or bombs, going to an FA cup final with false beard and wig to watch it, turned down the going to the 98 World Cup because he was in the running for headmaster at Harrow (which he missed out on) Just mind blowing. He did say that after it all, him and Roy Keane were good mates.

I thought that Harrow was a rugger not FOOTBALL outfit

  and there not fulltime ref's either most epl refs have a day job too don't they ??