Wellington Phoenix Men

Undroppable

60 replies · 3,099 views
over 13 years ago

By my reckoning no player has been dropped from the Phoenix starting XI this season.  Every change has either been through injury or unavailability, and each replaced player has returned to the lineup the next week 9other than Steyn last weekend, but that was . 

Odd considering our results.

The one exception is Totori who was replaced by Ifill - but as he starts when fit, and he plainly wasn't fit week 1, I think you can just about say his return fits this pattern.

In fact excluding youth teamers I believe the only player officially dropped from the Phoenix squad is Boxhall who was replaced in the squad by Lia when he returned to fitness.

Read it how you like, signs of our impending stability or Ricki's inflexibility and unwillingness to change.  Personally, I think it's something we could do differently - we only freshen the team up on the back of a bad result.  Players will go in and out of form throughout the season and sometimes guys who are out of the squad can come in and surprise you, even add momentum.

Normo's coming home

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over 13 years ago
I do feel for the extended squad members who know they are only a very slim chance of getting game time (apart from a mid-week kick around vs Younheart or Canterbury) even when a current starting player is well off their game a couple games in a row. Also sometimes the best way to get a player to lift their game is to drop them, it's often the kick up the arse they need. I thought maybe with his keen-ness to play the young players it might encourage this more but when you see guys like Lyndsay being repeatedly left out you have to wonder. Some guys are living for that one chance. 

Fuck this stupid game

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over 13 years ago

I have this feeling Lindsay will never play a game for the phoenix - either starting or off the bench.



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over 13 years ago

I have this feeling Lindsay will never play a game for the phoenix - either starting or off the bench.


Ange is circling as we speak...

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over 13 years ago

What can you do? Lindsay was always going to be forth choice for a spot after muscat, smith and lia for a mid-field spot and won't be seen in the backline before lia or muscat.

To be honest I have no issues with selection. Our first 11 are our best players even in a form slump Ifill is probably a better bet to create than totori. My beef is with tactics and formation and how we arrange our 11. Ifill on the wing isn't really cutting it and I would like to see Ifill get central and try stein on the wing. I bet he's got great technique. All our strikers can play CF or WF so I would like us to switch it up to find the way it gels best.

"Yellow Fever are fantastic – I have to say that"

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over 13 years ago

asmodeus_82 wrote:

What can you do? Lindsay was always going to be forth choice for a spot after muscat, smith and lia for a mid-field spot and won't be seen in the backline before lia or muscat.

To be honest I have no issues with selection. Our first 11 are our best players even in a form slump Ifill is probably a better bet to create than totori. My beef is with tactics and formation and how we arrange our 11. Ifill on the wing isn't really cutting it and I would like to see Ifill get central and try stein on the wing. I bet he's got great technique. All our strikers can play CF or WF so I would like us to switch it up to find the way it gels best.

I can somewhat agree with this. Why are their calls for Lindsay when chances are high (and we have had exceptions) that he is not going to be better than the person he is replacing? Its like change for the sake of change because its something shiny and new. If you look at a good benchmark in Fenton (young player) and maybe Boyd, Ricki I think may have learned not to be so rigid in dismissing a young players input to a game. Taking that into account, I would guess the reason he is not getting a run is because he is simply not good enough.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 13 years ago

asmodeus_82 wrote:

To be honest I have no issues with selection. Our first 11 are our best players even in a form slump


My beef is that players outside the squad have to feel that if they perform well enough they can break into the side.  Otherwise what incentive is there for them to work hard and push?  They can't just be glorified injury replacements.  Plus Herbert's only changes are those forced on him by injury or unavailability - that's hardly pro-active management 

Normo's coming home

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago · History

I think the weird thing with Lyndsay is comparing him to Boyd.  Boyd has gotten time in every game this year without really doing a lot or making a big impact - clearly to give him some experience because I don't think his performances objectively warrant the time he's gotten.  Lyndsay hasn't had an opportunity at all, so it seems like he's not considered to be worth attempting to give experience too.  I guess we can only trust the coaching staff's judgement on this one...I've never seen him play at all so have no idea what he is like

Normo's coming home

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over 13 years ago

Ive been impressed by him when ive seen him in that holding role..

Ricki said last season that he saw him as a bench player this year and a potential starter the year after


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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago · History

Thats kinda been scuppered when you consider our midfielders of Sanchez and Clark that also don't get a run. He seems to sit well down the pecking order.

The only time I saw him was at Waitakere in an All White selection at LB and he seemed shaky. That was a while ago now admittedly.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 13 years ago

Lindsay played the full 90 in a holding midfield type role tonight in Christchurch. Unimpressive to say the least.
I've always wanted Ricki to give him a shot but watching his performance tonight, unless he had a really off game, I think he's a wee while off knocking on Muscat's or even Lia's door.

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over 13 years ago

I have no beef with excluding Lindsay or any specific player.


I just think it's unusual that in a mid table it's very difficult to be dropped from the first team based on performances

Normo's coming home

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over 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

I have no beef with excluding Lindsay or any specific player.


I just think it's unusual that in a mid table it's very difficult to be dropped from the first team based on performances


Totally agree. Any other coach would've had Bertos, Lochhead and Paston (and others) dropped several times over.
I've always questioned Ricki's loyalty to his regular XI.

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over 13 years ago

For who? Moss is injured,lochead is basically our only LB and bertos is a makeshift right back who has actually done quite well. 


Allegedly

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago · History

I was meaning over the last few years. Though I suppose our lack of viable replacements were probably the reason that players weren't dropped, Bertos and Lochie have both had a few form slumps over the past few seasons. In saying that though both have been pretty good over the last few games. Paston has looked lazy the last few games, if Mossy wasn't out I would've like to of seen him in.

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over 13 years ago

Ricki has always had his favourites, from day one.

If he isn't as involved in trainings as its been suggested, it is understandable he will kepp picking players he is aware of in terms of their game and potential.

I do feel for Lindsey though, Ricki always talks really highly of him, but never plays him.

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over 13 years ago

MetalLegNZ wrote:

Ricki has always had his favourites, from day one.

If he isn't as involved in trainings as its been suggested, it is understandable he will kepp picking players he is aware of in terms of their game and potential.

I do feel for Lindsey though, Ricki always talks really highly of him, but never plays him.



Saw Lindsay play last night... Wasn't the greatest.
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over 13 years ago

Sackofspuds wrote:

I was meaning over the last few years. Though I suppose our lack of viable replacements were probably the reason that players weren't dropped, Bertos and Lochie have both had a few form slumps over the past few seasons. In saying that though both have been pretty good over the last few games. Paston has looked lazy the last few games, if Mossy wasn't out I would've like to of seen him in.

Leo has been dropped in previous years. Certainly spent time on the bench.

Not sure who you would have replaced Lochhead with in previous years.

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over 13 years ago

That's right, I do remember Leo being dropped for a few games. But yeah as I said, I suppose our lack of viable replacements were probably the reason that players weren't dropped. It's good to have to FSE now and hopefully soon we can have a couple of players pushing for each spot.

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over 13 years ago

2ndBest wrote:

Sackofspuds wrote:

I was meaning over the last few years. Though I suppose our lack of viable replacements were probably the reason that players weren't dropped, Bertos and Lochie have both had a few form slumps over the past few seasons. In saying that though both have been pretty good over the last few games. Paston has looked lazy the last few games, if Mossy wasn't out I would've like to of seen him in.

Leo has been dropped in previous years. Certainly spent time on the bench.

Not sure who you would have replaced Lochhead with in previous years.



Not many left sided player, hence Lochhead almost guaranteed a start.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 13 years ago

2ndBest wrote:

Sackofspuds wrote:

I was meaning over the last few years. Though I suppose our lack of viable replacements were probably the reason that players weren't dropped, Bertos and Lochie have both had a few form slumps over the past few seasons. In saying that though both have been pretty good over the last few games. Paston has looked lazy the last few games, if Mossy wasn't out I would've like to of seen him in.

Leo has been dropped in previous years. Certainly spent time on the bench.

Not sure who you would have replaced Lochhead with in previous years.


There's no replacement because he's chosen not to sign anyone to compete with Lochhead.

Let's not start buying into managerial fatalism i.e. there's nothing else he could do.  Ricki is the one making these decisions

Normo's coming home

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over 13 years ago

 remind me how many clubs have two left backs in their squads?

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over 13 years ago

 I'd also like to add that 2-3 years ago when he was out for 6 weeks, people really noticed the difference when he was gone and then came back. Short memories...

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 13 years ago

We don't have Lionel messi because ricki chose not to sign him. Sack ricki. 


Allegedly

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago · History

2ndBest wrote:

 remind me how many clubs have two left backs in their squads?


That's not the point.  These are all choices the club has made.  For example, you could make your reserve central defender left sided so he can cover the position, or make sure you have a left sided winger in your squad who can cover.

I just think the structure of our squad which is pretty much divided into "starting XI", "match day reserves" and "outcasts" doesn't exactly do a lot to keep the starting XI on their toes.

I think we can carry on this way and we will probably finish 5th or 6th, which is fine but would be pretty underwhelming.  This season we were supposed to be aiming higher than that and I don't see this team being run like a side that thinks it can win the title.

Normo's coming home

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over 13 years ago

My point is that with a capped squad and salary cap there isn't much room for clubs to have 2 players for a specialist position like LB.  There just aren't that many quality LB going around, and the decent ones can walk into most a-league teams. Heck there aren't that many half decent left footed players floating around the A-league in general.

You could make the same arguments with goalkeepers. Apart from us, there is typically a significant difference between starting keepers and their number 2.

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over 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

I think we can carry on this way and we will probably finish 5th or 6th, which is fine but would be pretty underwhelming.  This season we were supposed to be aiming higher than that and I don't see this team being run like a side that thinks it can win the title.

Didn't you say we would finish last 2 weeks ago.
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over 13 years ago

It's hard to tell when you're basing your strong opinions on online streams of highlights from the other side of the world. 


Allegedly

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over 13 years ago · edited over 13 years ago · History

2ndBest wrote:

james dean wrote:

I think we can carry on this way and we will probably finish 5th or 6th, which is fine but would be pretty underwhelming.  This season we were supposed to be aiming higher than that and I don't see this team being run like a side that thinks it can win the title.

Didn't you say we would finish last 2 weeks ago.

Maybe I'm just feeling optimistic today...and Sydney keep getting worse!
If we carry on with our 4-4-2 we'll miss the finals, I'm sure of that
I don't really get your perspective on this season, are you happy with how it's going/ impressed with what we've offered?  I know you're more loath to criticise the team which is fine, but do you actually think we've made any progress from last season?
Tegal I stream the games live for the most part

Normo's coming home

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over 13 years ago

It's a shame GCU aren't in the competition any more. The wooden spoon race between them and Sydney would have been a good one!


Allegedly

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over 13 years ago

Tegal wrote:

It's a shame GCU aren't in the competition any more. The wooden spoon race between them and Sydney would have been a good one!

GCU despite finishing last, were actually pretty good. they just had a few naive moments that cost them and had Rigters up front. Another years experience and with decent recruitment, they would have made mid table easy I think.
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over 13 years ago

Think I would say I’m content with how it is going so far. I think for the most part, we’ve been pretty decent.  The only real game when we’ve look considerable worse than the opponent was the Melbourne game. But then again this is the A-league, and all teams have shocker every now and again.

In general our recruitment has been better in previous years.  Although I still think the Totori signing was rushed, and not really warranted.  And we didn’t get a left footed replacement for Daniel.

Pleasing for me is that we are getting results even without Ifill and Manny playing to their potential.

With a playoff system, you want to be peaking towards the end of the season.  And I think we have shown in the past that we can do that.  We’ll definitely make the 6. Whether we make the top 2-3 will depend on our away record.

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over 13 years ago

^ So much this!

Am I HardNews in disguise?

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over 13 years ago

Tegal wrote:

It's a shame GCU aren't in the competition any more. The wooden spoon race between them and Sydney would have been a good one!



You obviously don't rate Frank Farina.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 13 years ago

Or their squad.


Allegedly

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over 13 years ago

They won't be bottom.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 13 years ago

Thanks leggy. 

You can't say that they don't deserve to be there at the moment, that's for sure. 


Allegedly

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over 13 years ago

Tegal wrote:

Thanks leggy. 

You can't say that they don't deserve to be there at the moment, that's for sure. 



I never said that.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 13 years ago

I never said that you did. I said that you can't. 


Allegedly

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over 13 years ago

2ndBest wrote:

Think I would say I’m content with how it is going so far. I think for the most part, we’ve been pretty decent.  The only real game when we’ve look considerable worse than the opponent was the Melbourne game. But then again this is the A-league, and all teams have shocker every now and again.

In general our recruitment has been better in previous years.  Although I still think the Totori signing was rushed, and not really warranted.  And we didn’t get a left footed replacement for Daniel.

Pleasing for me is that we are getting results even without Ifill and Manny playing to their potential.

With a playoff system, you want to be peaking towards the end of the season.  And I think we have shown in the past that we can do that.  We’ll definitely make the 6. Whether we make the top 2-3 will depend on our away record.


Ok but why do you think the results have been so poor?

Normo's coming home

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