WPM 2023/24 Squad Speculation, Confirmation and Mutual Termination

theprof

Legend

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15K

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almost 17 years

Doloras

lthomas20

Doloras

To be fair, I certainly have given up on the club ever putting together a competitive squad in this league. We don't have the resources and we never will because that's how the A-League runs and those are the terms for even having a sustainable club at all. The joy of being a Nix fan will be watching young Kiwis get developed, do some great stuff and then go off to a better future.

This nonsense about resources.... Glory, Adelaide, Mariners have all won the league on pretty similar budgets to ones we've had. It's the A-League, hardly a league where the same teams dominate every year and are impossible to topple.

I mean, to be fair, the issue is that WelNix are savvy businesspeople, and have made the Nix sustainable financially - even given our relatively lame crowds - to the point where we're valued and respected by the other club owners. And they've done that by *not* splashing the cash on marquee players in the hope of winning the league.

I would argue that the Nix in it's current form is not sustainable. Sustainable will be when the club doesnt rely on the owners to prop it up with cash every season. Whilst we are stable, with owners who are still committed to he cause we are far from being sustainable.

September 18, 2023 18:25

coochiee

Legend

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Alot of it is also about the club's goal to maximise transfer fee income or solidarity payments, by selling ex Academy guys who have been at the club for years. Bringing in someone from the National League who may only be at the Nix 1-2 years, before signing up north doesn't fit that model it seems.

Edit - I can't think of them ever selling a non-Academy player??
That was their plan with Piscopo but it never happened.

The Callan Elliott saga (another non Academy player), seemed to also leave a bit of a sour taste at Nix HQ. A player perhaps not as "loyal/invested" in the club as some of the ex Academy guys, leaving the Nix hanging on whether he was going to re-sign or not.

September 18, 2023 18:26 · Edited September 18, 2023 18:50

Ryan

Marquee

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almost 14 years

Walsall Boy

Saw a Facebook post at the weekend that Adelaide are relying on their academy rather than imports this season. Sound familiar?? And they have lost Craig Goodwin to a Saudi team.

I really do think that we are not in too bad a shape if the academy players step up. I am heartened by the fact that the academy was not that strong in the Central League a couple of years ago, now they are one of the teams to beat there. Clearly, Chris Greenacre is making huge strides as a coach as his playing squad is hardly static in terms of the personnel at his disposal. Maybe he should be part of the first team coaching squad unless he sees the academy as his baby??

The Saudi league has squeezed the availability of decent European imports with their second tier being set up. The A league is going to become more and more now about Australian and New Zealand eligible players.

Goodwin didn't want to go, Adelaide forced him to leave because they could no longer afford him. His partner said on Instagram they weren't asking for anymore money and wanted to stay.

September 18, 2023 18:27

imanixsupporter

First Team Squad

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almost 2 years

Ryan

Walsall Boy

Saw a Facebook post at the weekend that Adelaide are relying on their academy rather than imports this season. Sound familiar?? And they have lost Craig Goodwin to a Saudi team.

I really do think that we are not in too bad a shape if the academy players step up. I am heartened by the fact that the academy was not that strong in the Central League a couple of years ago, now they are one of the teams to beat there. Clearly, Chris Greenacre is making huge strides as a coach as his playing squad is hardly static in terms of the personnel at his disposal. Maybe he should be part of the first team coaching squad unless he sees the academy as his baby??

The Saudi league has squeezed the availability of decent European imports with their second tier being set up. The A league is going to become more and more now about Australian and New Zealand eligible players.

Goodwin didn't want to go, Adelaide forced him to leave because they could no longer afford him. His partner said on Instagram they weren't asking for anymore money and wanted to stay.

Adelaide did not force him to go. He was under contract for 2 more seasons. You can't make a player leave unless you pay them out, which Adelaide would never have done.

What happened is he got offered stupid money by a Saudi club who were also offering a fee Adelaide would accept. He was very tempted by this money, but he went to Adelaide saying he would like to stay if they could extend his contract for an additional 3 years at the same salary. Adelaide said are you crazy, we'd rather take the money. Adelaide and A-League clubs in general are not currently in a position to offer such long and high paying contracts, what happens if he has a career ending injury one or two years into a 5 year deal? I don't know where you got that they couldn't afford him, they just couldn't afford the extension he was asking for.

So he said cool I'm leaving, and Adelaide were happy to take the transfer fee. But Goodwin wants to have it both ways, he'd like people to be tricked into thinking he was forced out, and he's been successful with people like you.

September 18, 2023 19:12

Ryan

Marquee

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almost 14 years

If you get a career ending injury 2 years into a 5 year deal then that's one hell of a payout... That's not a consideration.

September 18, 2023 19:31

imanixsupporter

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??

Yes I know that's one hell of a payout, that's why it's a big risk for a club to give out a long contract like that, that's why Adelaide didn't give it to Goodwin. That doesn't mean Adelaide forced him to go to Saudi Arabia.

September 18, 2023 19:43

martinb

Legend

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about 17 years

Someone mentioned Elliot. Also Sail must have been close to transfer dollars and Lewis possibly also. And we missed out on much from Devlin too right?

Someone mentioned loyalty and I think we do need a few Siggie like characters around who inspire people to value the club, as well as some emotional attachment from the youngsters to help us get fees when they leave.

And sure part of that is on us- reminding the players how much it means to us at the RoF and how gutted we are at a loss and get fired up with the chants and banners etc, some of us turning up to training at times etc etc.

If all the players see it as a stepping stone or an inbetween option that’s guna show.

And yeh, getting a strong season out of Kraev will definitely help us finish higher up the table…

September 18, 2023 20:48 · Edited September 18, 2023 20:53

Monto

WeeNix

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950

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about 3 years

theprof

lthomas20

My problem is not actually with the amount we're spending. We know we spent too much last season for little reward, we now have the ALW team to cover for as well and the owners lose money every year.

My frustration is HOW we are spending and how we have planned as a club. Where to start - the long deals for Ball and Wootton at their age with their limited pedigree were ridiculous, and have hampered our ability to plan around new visa signings. Kraev is on high wages for his talent (pretty average for an AL visa player). Players who were good for a bit but have sunk in performance levels (Payne and Kosta come to mind) get to stick around and have scant contest for their place. Then the club insists on promoting and playing heaps of academy guys and full on refuses to look outside the Nix Academy within NZ (you can't tell me NZ domestic league players would be expensive gets).

And the funniest part is that we are now like oh look at us and our academy players when we were TERRIBLE at giving them gametime last season. Paulsen, Surman, Conchie as well should have seen more minutes but didn't and others should have gotten some run-outs. Instead now the club is like oh yeah we'll fall back on you guys and throw you all in the deep end together, good luck!

did you listen to the recent podcast? Domey explains and answers a whole lot of your issue with "not looking" outside the acandemy. They actually do look at all players in the NZ scene, obviously they favour their own academy players cos they now their skill and talent and have trained and grown them into the players the club wants/needs. Sometimes the NZ player YOU want in the club either isnt seen as being a better option than one we have already or just doesnt want to be part of the Nix setup.

See I never bought what Dome was saying about domestic players, It immediately struck me as deflection.

What he said about Libby for example was telling. That another club made good money out of his transfer must annoy the Nix no end, they'd much rather keep all the cash. I get the feeling that they only want their own academy kids so that they make max dollars. Fair enough I suppose.

Then there's the prestige angle. If some young gun makes the Nix playing for another club in NZ what does that say about the academy? It tells everone that you don't need to spend a small mortgage getting little Johnny to Avalon in the hopes he can make it pro, they can do it from their hometown. The cost for attending the academy are not insubstantial, there's a lot of revenue at stake there.

Tldr: I didn't buy what Dome was saying about domestic players.

September 19, 2023 08:57

theprof

Legend

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almost 17 years

Monto

theprof

lthomas20

My problem is not actually with the amount we're spending. We know we spent too much last season for little reward, we now have the ALW team to cover for as well and the owners lose money every year.

My frustration is HOW we are spending and how we have planned as a club. Where to start - the long deals for Ball and Wootton at their age with their limited pedigree were ridiculous, and have hampered our ability to plan around new visa signings. Kraev is on high wages for his talent (pretty average for an AL visa player). Players who were good for a bit but have sunk in performance levels (Payne and Kosta come to mind) get to stick around and have scant contest for their place. Then the club insists on promoting and playing heaps of academy guys and full on refuses to look outside the Nix Academy within NZ (you can't tell me NZ domestic league players would be expensive gets).

And the funniest part is that we are now like oh look at us and our academy players when we were TERRIBLE at giving them gametime last season. Paulsen, Surman, Conchie as well should have seen more minutes but didn't and others should have gotten some run-outs. Instead now the club is like oh yeah we'll fall back on you guys and throw you all in the deep end together, good luck!

did you listen to the recent podcast? Domey explains and answers a whole lot of your issue with "not looking" outside the acandemy. They actually do look at all players in the NZ scene, obviously they favour their own academy players cos they now their skill and talent and have trained and grown them into the players the club wants/needs. Sometimes the NZ player YOU want in the club either isnt seen as being a better option than one we have already or just doesnt want to be part of the Nix setup.

See I never bought what Dome was saying about domestic players, It immediately struck me as deflection.

What he said about Libby for example was telling. That another club made good money out of his transfer must annoy the Nix no end, they'd much rather keep all the cash. I get the feeling that they only want their own academy kids so that they make max dollars. Fair enough I suppose.

Then there's the prestige angle. If some young gun makes the Nix playing for another club in NZ what does that say about the academy? It tells everone that you don't need to spend a small mortgage getting little Johnny to Avalon in the hopes he can make it pro, they can do it from their hometown. The cost for attending the academy are not insubstantial, there's a lot of revenue at stake there.

Tldr: I didn't buy what Dome was saying about domestic players.

I mean that's your call, I'v e never know Dome to be disingenuous or not honest and upfront. Getting the max transfer $$ is obviously a big part of the focus - being finacially viable is a key fdriver for the club - clearly ticket sales and memberships are going to solve the cashflow issue so player sales will have to make up the shortfall. So having to share the transfer money with another club would clearly be annoying. He never said they dont/wont look at players from outsiode the academy, but clearly (as you'd expect) those within the academy setup early will always be favoured - and for most there is nothing worng with that. If you're a young footballer with potential and you want to play for the nix then you either hope that you light up the local leagues from your local club, or you and your folks do everything you can to get into the academy.

September 19, 2023 10:12

billyspleen75

Phoenix Academy

650

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480

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over 9 years

I did a quick google but couldn't find an answer..
Does anyone know what % of the future transfer fee goes to the grassroots club and what goes to the first professional club? I suspect it must be significant for it to drastically impact the Phoenix's development and signing model

One other one..
The narrative has been that we spent $1m~ more than usual last season.
But since there is also the rule that we must spend 90% of the cap and the cap is only around 2.5M, does that mean we had/have two designated/marquee players?

September 19, 2023 11:43

number8

Starting XI

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I how much does it cost the club to run the WeNix? Parents pay big dollars on the promise that their own kid have a chance to make it.

September 19, 2023 12:09

coochiee

Legend

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Dome on the pod mentioned that Island Bay for example get some nice cash every time Libby moves up the food chain - though that progression may have reached it's ceiling now. Obviously the Nix would want all of that solidarity payment cash - so getting promising kids into the Academy before they turn age 12, and nuturing them into pro footballers.

If you sign someone for the first time after they turn 23, you just get a one off transfer fee when they are sold on?? ie no future ongoing solidarity payments??

https://www.parsalaw.com/fifa-player-transfers/#:~:text=Clubs%20pay%20transfer%20fees%2C%20and,player%20was%20at%20each%20club.

Clubs pay transfer fees, and up to five percent of this fee is withheld to be used as the solidarity payments. Solidarity payments are distributed to all clubs that trained the player between his 12th and 23rd birthdays at a proportional rate depending on how long the player was at each club.

September 19, 2023 12:12 · Edited September 19, 2023 12:13

Bullion

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Marquee

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about 17 years

billyspleen75

I did a quick google but couldn't find an answer..
Does anyone know what % of the future transfer fee goes to the grassroots club and what goes to the first professional club? I suspect it must be significant for it to drastically impact the Phoenix's development and signing model

One other one..
The narrative has been that we spent $1m~ more than usual last season.
But since there is also the rule that we must spend 90% of the cap and the cap is only around 2.5M, does that mean we had/have two designated/marquee players?

There are quite a few holes in the cap - loyalty players, designated players, marquee players, homegrown players, scholarship players. So could be using other mechanisms instead of a marquee or designated player.

September 19, 2023 12:47

martinb

Legend

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about 17 years

Was trying to kid myself that Rylee was a dude’s name. One men’s signing to 5 women’s -come on!

September 19, 2023 13:45

wilbaker

First Team Squad

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On the academy topic, I'm not too sure about the logistics of this but a recent example of a player being at an academy for his development and then receiving a huge fee from future transfers is Moises Caiciedo. They got like 20m for his move to Chelsea which is unlikely we'd have a player generate that much but even if you get 5% of that as well as the initial transfer fee it's going to be worth developing your own players.

September 19, 2023 14:17

lthomas20

First Team Squad

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over 3 years

martinb

Was trying to kid myself that Rylee was a dude’s name. One men’s signing to 5 women’s -come on!

Ehh the dudes had their most expensive squad ever last season and were pretty average. Time for the women to get a turn.

September 19, 2023 15:26

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MetalLegNZ

Marquee

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about 12 years

Has Wallace from the NZ u20 officially joined? Saw he was in an earlier extended squad.

September 19, 2023 22:25

EmmaB

Trialist

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10

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about 2 years

MetalLegNZ

Has Wallace from the NZ u20 officially joined? Saw he was in an earlier extended squad.

He's back training with the reserves.

September 20, 2023 08:15

WellingtonCharva

Trialist

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12

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This offseason has been so boring, make the seasons at least 30 games long again.

September 23, 2023 12:04

WhoStoleMySock

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WellingtonCharva

This offseason has been so boring, make the seasons at least 30 games long again.

Cynical first post, you definitely belong here 😂

Yeah it has been, but if Chiefy couldn't find anyone that was worth bringing in as an import, I don't want them to bring just 'anyone' in, stinking it up in the League.

September 23, 2023 12:34

cheesecake

Trialist

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Geez, I'd love to know what Chief had in mind at the time of foreshadowing "surprises" in that one press conference. Morrison or Dome, etc., must have come out of an APL meeting or budget review with some unfortunate news for him.

September 23, 2023 14:08

maynardf

Starting XI

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almost 15 years

Still hoping the Eden Hazard rumours come true...

September 23, 2023 14:31

Friar Tuck

First Team Squad

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almost 7 years

cheesecake

Geez, I'd love to know what Chief had in mind at the time of foreshadowing "surprises" in that one press conference. Morrison or Dome, etc., must have come out of an APL meeting or budget review with some unfortunate news for him.

Maybe the surprise is that the so called mastermind behind Uffie’s recruitment isn’t going to recruit anyone.

September 23, 2023 14:53

Showtime Nixie

WeeNix

720

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620

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almost 2 years

Do we have enough players to field a team?

September 23, 2023 15:00

NZPhoenixFan

WeeNix

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600

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almost 5 years

Do we think visa spot on Wootton is a waste?

September 23, 2023 22:45

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imanixsupporter

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I'm personally not that upset by Wootton taking up one of the spots. He's miles better than Laws and Payne have been for us and has more often than not been let down by them. I think there's a reasonably good chance he can form a good partnership with Surman this season with Laws gone and Payne out on the right, I'm hoping Payne rediscovers his RB form of 2 or 3 years ago when he was decent.

What does it matter anyway when David Ball at this stage is a far worse use of a visa spot and we aren't even using the free one we have left.

September 23, 2023 23:26

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Friar Tuck

First Team Squad

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imanixsupporter

I'm personally not that upset by Wootton taking up one of the spots. He's miles better than Laws and Payne have been for us and has more often than not been let down by them. I think there's a reasonably good chance he can form a good partnership with Surman this season with Laws gone and Payne out on the right, I'm hoping Payne rediscovers his RB form of 2 or 3 years ago when he was decent.

What does it matter anyway when David Ball at this stage is a far worse use of a visa spot and we aren't even using the free one we have left.

But we’re keeping it up our sleeve!!!

Can’t wait to sign Cillian Sheridan 2.0 in January and gain an additional one (1) goal.

September 24, 2023 09:56

AucklandPhoenix

Lawyerish

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over 13 years

Trouble is some person some time ago decided to re-sign two aging UK journeyman who were already here to long term contracts.

in reality if they had offered them one year deals at the time to re-sign they would have probably snapped their hand off as their options would have been extremely limited.

No a league club likely would have been sniffing and probably their best case upon returning home would have been league two.

It’s fine talking a big game about signing youth and substanibility but if you do the above it doesn’t exactly help in making the club sustainable.

September 24, 2023 13:03 · Edited September 24, 2023 13:04

coochiee

Legend

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So Duncan & Al-Taay the only Aussies in the squad. Is that a record low number?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/300976272/wellington-phoenix-put-greater-emphasis-on-development-as-mens-team-budget-cut

The Phoenix are set to announce their final signing this week, but that will be another player from the reserves. A handful more will be signed to scholarship deals in January, after they play in the National League Championship.

The change in approach comes after the Central Coast Mariners won A-League Men with the lowest budget and youngest roster last season, and the league saw a record number of players sold to European clubs over the winter.

Gill said the Phoenix were still spending above the salary floor of A$2.35 million ($2.54 million), with returning imports Oskar Zawada, Bozhidar Kraev, David Ball and Scott Wootton, and All Whites forward Kosta Barbarouses among their highest earners.

September 24, 2023 13:45 · Edited September 24, 2023 13:50

RR

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Bossi Insider

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coochiee

So Duncan & Al-Taay the only Aussies in the squad. Is that a record low number?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/300976272/wellington-phoenix-put-greater-emphasis-on-development-as-mens-team-budget-cut

The Phoenix are set to announce their final signing this week, but that will be another player from the reserves. A handful more will be signed to scholarship deals in January, after they play in the National League Championship.

The change in approach comes after the Central Coast Mariners won A-League Men with the lowest budget and youngest roster last season, and the league saw a record number of players sold to European clubs over the winter.

Gill said the Phoenix were still spending above the salary floor of A$2.35 million ($2.54 million), with returning imports Oskar Zawada, Bozhidar Kraev, David Ball and Scott Wootton, and All Whites forward Kosta Barbarouses among their highest earners.

Pennington? Pretty sure 3 is the lowest

September 24, 2023 15:21

imanixsupporter

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al-Taay is the only outfielder signed who has played a professional first team game since losing Waine, Sasse, Lewis, Ugarkovic, Laws & Elliot. What a depressing off-season.

September 24, 2023 16:22 · Edited September 24, 2023 16:23

coochiee

Legend

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Bidois the last signing?

September 24, 2023 16:31

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martinb

Legend

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about 17 years

We’re dooooooooooomed! Don’t forget.

We need a grunge song. Or a goth one. No emo cos I’m too old for that sh#>$.

You. Can’t. Win. With. Kiiiiids!

Omg Patrick needs to write a soccer opera around the dramatic angst.

They will play some games and we’ll watch them. We’ll do better than the gloomers think and we’ll cling to slim glimmers of hope.

Send us a game! It’s the break between games that does most of this. What actual football do we have to talk about?

September 24, 2023 17:05

Ninja

WeeNix

930

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560

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about 7 years

We're f*cked. Wooden spoon.

September 24, 2023 17:51

Doloras

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Opinion Privileges revoked

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Thank heavens there's no P&R

September 24, 2023 20:35

coochiee

Legend

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Ninja

We're f*cked. Wooden spoon.

The pre season friendlies the Nix will soon play in Aus, against other ALM teams will give some gauge of where the team is at. As per AV's article, it's the APL as a whole that's driving this strategy of the A League paring back it's player payment expenses. That's in a bid to make the league more financially sustainable. Really it seems only City & maybe WSW are making big signings. Sounds like most of the other clubs are doing similar to the Phoenix.

Don't forget the TV rights income (biggest income source for all the clubs?) is less than 50% of what it was in the Fox Sports Days. Something had to give. Plus for the Welnix in the last 2 years they have added a ALW team to their expense column, now sans NZF financial help.

I'd like the Nix to sign some of NZ's best domestic players, not just Academy kids - but Gill & Dome have explained in detail, why it's now all about the Weenix re new signings. Very much a business driven decision, so fair enough. Other domestic players will be hoping a new Auckland team look to the local NZ scene, when assembling a squad.

Overall the Nix need to get more out of their 4 visa players compared to last season.

September 24, 2023 20:57 · Edited September 24, 2023 21:00

and 2 others

Ryan

Marquee

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almost 14 years

Welnix has also been helping pay for the jets for the last few years.

I'm excited for the season.

September 24, 2023 22:45 · Edited September 25, 2023 14:08

Mainland FC

Marquee

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Ryan

Welnix has also been helping pay for the jets for the last few years.

I'm excited for the season.

This is what happens when C-Diddy stops posting. Nobody to loudly protest that kind of outrage.

September 25, 2023 17:26

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

One in a million

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Andros Townsend anyone?
Andros Townsend says he broke down in tears after a free transfer move to Burnley collapsed over the summer. The former England winger had agreed terms after a successful trial but the Clarets withdrew the offer as they did not want to stifle the development of some of their younger players.
He is still a free agent after leaving Everton last season.
"It was probably one of the toughest conversations I've had in my career," said the 32-year-old.
Speaking to Radio 5's Monday Night Club, Townsend said he has spent the past month trying to earn a contract elsewhere but has been "rejected by so many clubs" both at home and abroad.

September 26, 2023 21:38

WanderingSheep

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First Team Squad

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almost 6 years

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

Andros Townsend anyone?
Andros Townsend says he broke down in tears after a free transfer move to Burnley collapsed over the summer. The former England winger had agreed terms after a successful trial but the Clarets withdrew the offer as they did not want to stifle the development of some of their younger players.
He is still a free agent after leaving Everton last season.
"It was probably one of the toughest conversations I've had in my career," said the 32-year-old.
Speaking to Radio 5's Monday Night Club, Townsend said he has spent the past month trying to earn a contract elsewhere but has been "rejected by so many clubs" both at home and abroad.

I read the bbc article and sent it to domey earlier 😂 not a chance but that would be some service to zawada!

September 26, 2023 21:45

and 1 other