WPM 2023/24 Squad Speculation, Confirmation and Mutual Termination

Kosta looked pretty sharp in the FFA cup.

Given we have a heap of young guys already I'm happy for Kosta to stick around and share his experience with them. Really looking forward to see how some of the young guys develop. As one of the experienced guys said to me today at least we should find out who is ready for the step up.

Showtime Nixie

Kosta Barbarouses...not sure i can handle another year of what he dished up last season. Early release on the cards to free up a spot? Really hope a young lad with potential plays his minutes this year

Can't see an early release happening, it would have to be by mutual agreement or a buy out of his contract and that would still count against this season's salary cap (I think) - so it defeats the purpose of releasing him. Just hope he gives us a taste of his Melbourne form and not the usual dross he has always given us.

Genuinely hoping a change in style might suit Kosta a bit better, we've seen glimpses of it with Aus Cup. If it works within we've got one hell of a useful senior player. I think we'll need him with how Ball has been declining (I hope Ball finds the old form too).

                  Paulsen 
Payne - Wootton - Surman - LKH 
         Rufer - Pennington
                   Kraev
      Ball - Zawada - Barbarouses


That's our most probable starting 11, and honestly, it isn't that bad compared to other teams. 

If we could have gotten a decent import cm I think we would be set.

How long is Sutton out for? Surely he starts at LB when fit.

After 4 years of Uffie I'm sick of seeing only 2 central midfielders. I'd rather see a 3 with all of al-Taay, Rufer and Pennington. Kraev should be in the front 3 with Oskar and one of Kosta/Ball. 

imanixsupporter

How long is Sutton out for? Surely he starts at LB when fit.

After 4 years of Uffie I'm sick of seeing only 2 central midfielders. I'd rather see a 3 with all of al-Taay, Rufer and Pennington. Kraev should be in the front 3 with Oskar and one of Kosta/Ball. 

Agreed that Sutton starts when fit and agreed with the 2 man midfield as well.

The guys we have might not be the best but we have the perfect players for a midfield 3/diamond midfield.

Al-Taay the destroyer shielding the back line.

Rufer setting the tempo and spraying passes (which he’s improved on in the last two seasons).

Pennington chasing players, covering the half space when fullbacks push up and pushing forward himself.

Kraev the main creator who can play centrally in a diamond or out on the left to run at players.

I mean I’m not a coach so maybe it would flop but I like the idea of this formation:

IMG_5624.jpeg 425.49 KB

Conchie could take any of the three midfield spots too (though most likely Pennington’s since he’s a good creator).

Not expecting much for the season, just hoping for some fun football and hopefully some of the younger guys who have been in and around the squad for the last 1-2 years can have break out seasons. I dont mind if we lose by 2 to 3 goals, as long as our style is fun. It will be horrible if we try to play defense lob ball while losing.

When do they next play some football? Seems like the quietest off season ever. 

Friar Tuck

imanixsupporter

How long is Sutton out for? Surely he starts at LB when fit.

After 4 years of Uffie I'm sick of seeing only 2 central midfielders. I'd rather see a 3 with all of al-Taay, Rufer and Pennington. Kraev should be in the front 3 with Oskar and one of Kosta/Ball. 

Agreed that Sutton starts when fit and agreed with the 2 man midfield as well.

The guys we have might not be the best but we have the perfect players for a midfield 3/diamond midfield.

Al-Taay the destroyer shielding the back line.

Rufer setting the tempo and spraying passes (which he’s improved on in the last two seasons).

Pennington chasing players, covering the half space when fullbacks push up and pushing forward himself.

Kraev the main creator who can play centrally in a diamond or out on the left to run at players.

I mean I’m not a coach so maybe it would flop but I like the idea of this formation:

IMG_5624.jpeg 425.49 KB

Conchie could take any of the three midfield spots too (though most likely Pennington’s since he’s a good creator).

With a diamond like that who is going to be providing width? Normally you would have full backs pushing high and wide - or your CM. Sutton is ok doing that, other FBs not as good. For our CM, Pennington has the athleticism to do it somewhat but Rufer less so.

martinb

When do they next play some football? Seems like the quietest off season ever. 

Jets this Saturday, then Victory the following weekend both behind closed doors unfortunately. 

Screenshot_20231002_140217_Chrome.jpg 837.83 KB

https://wellingtonphoenix.com/news/mens-pre-season-matches-finalised

Maaaaaaatt

martinb

When do they next play some football? Seems like the quietest off season ever. 

Jets this Saturday, then Victory the following weekend both behind closed doors unfortunately. 

Screenshot_20231002_140217_Chrome.jpg 837.83 KB

https://wellingtonphoenix.com/news/mens-pre-season-matches-finalised

Is the reason it is behind closed doors a financial one?
It would be a pretty easy way to build hype around the upcoming season. 

I'm pretty sure it's so that other teams don't watch and learn our/our opponents' secrets

billyspleen75

Maaaaaaatt

martinb

When do they next play some football? Seems like the quietest off season ever. 

Jets this Saturday, then Victory the following weekend both behind closed doors unfortunately. 

Screenshot_20231002_140217_Chrome.jpg 837.83 KB

https://wellingtonphoenix.com/news/mens-pre-season-matches-finalised

Is the reason it is behind closed doors a financial one?
It would be a pretty easy way to build hype around the upcoming season. 

We’re needing a bunch of reporting 

Doloras

I'm pretty sure it's so that other teams don't watch and learn our/our opponents' secrets

And also it's probably not that competitive a game and they don't want people reading too much into them, often they have unlimited subs and run games with 3 halves. 

I'm just going to leave this here...
#14 in blue looks pretty handy...

newzealandpower

I'm just going to leave this here...
#14 in blue looks pretty handy...

Meh, he looks average, let's sign more lads from the team that hasn't scored a goal yet!

Personally would love to see Nix utilise the preseason to get around the country a lot more - home games not in Welly are hard to allocate during the season, so why not make a blast of it in the preseason? Could easily take the team to a few regional cities that don't usually see pro level football (Hamilton, Nelson, Napier, Dunedin?), play against the best local club side, promote the heck out of the games, build a regional rapport and get a much more valuable early preseason than just playing Olympic and Miramar for the 100th time...

It's a good chance to see who gets the crowds for home games away from home too!

lthomas20

Personally would love to see Nix utilise the preseason to get around the country a lot more - home games not in Welly are hard to allocate during the season, so why not make a blast of it in the preseason? Could easily take the team to a few regional cities that don't usually see pro level football (Hamilton, Nelson, Napier, Dunedin?), play against the best local club side, promote the heck out of the games, build a regional rapport and get a much more valuable early preseason than just playing Olympic and Miramar for the 100th time...

It's a good chance to see who gets the crowds for home games away from home too!

I wish they still did the game vs Central League Select XI at Weka park in Kapiti.

lthomas20

newzealandpower

I'm just going to leave this here...
#14 in blue looks pretty handy...

Meh, he looks average, let's sign more lads from the team that hasn't scored a goal yet!

JCS is easily talented enough to be at the Nix, but jesus… can we stop with this idea? God forbid we sign players from our own academy that a) we pump so much money into, and b) is undoubtedly one of the most successful in Australasia in recent years.

No wonder they’re prioritised - rightly so. They’re nurtured by familiar coaches and are completely familiar with their surroundings. Thought this was exceedinly obvious but most NL players will have comfortable jobs and aren’t able to relocate or pause studies, let alone be ready and willing to drop everything to be a squaddie for a year in the A-League with no guaranteed future.

Yeah, some absolutely deserving players in the National League who are good enough for the A-League. But acting like it’s a travesty that nothing’s been agreed this window is just absurd lmfao. Wonder how many people were begging to sign up NL players instead of Singh and Cacace

mrsmiis

lthomas20

newzealandpower

I'm just going to leave this here...
#14 in blue looks pretty handy...

Meh, he looks average, let's sign more lads from the team that hasn't scored a goal yet!

JCS is easily talented enough to be at the Nix, but jesus… can we stop with this idea? God forbid we sign players from our own academy that a) we pump so much money into, and b) is undoubtedly one of the most successful in Australasia in recent years.

No wonder they’re prioritised - rightly so. They’re nurtured by familiar coaches and are completely familiar with their surroundings. Thought this was exceedinly obvious but most NL players will have comfortable jobs and aren’t able to relocate or pause studies, let alone be ready and willing to drop everything to be a squaddie for a year in the A-League with no guaranteed future.

Yeah, some absolutely deserving players in the National League who are good enough for the A-League. But acting like it’s a travesty that nothing’s been agreed this window is just absurd lmfao. Wonder how many people were begging to sign up NL players instead of Singh and Cacace

At the time Singh and Cacace came through, they were the best young players in the club and just needed a chance when we weren't giving any out. 

We already have the best young players in the club in the first team prior to this season, now the club is choosing to sign riskier unproven players that are very young instead of adding the much needed experience. 

Perth Glory, Newcastle Jets before us have trodden this path - just by giving young players a lot of gametime in a poor side you do not create the best career opportunities. 

Remember though that our starting team doesn’t look so different to last years. 
We’re not going to be handing out caps at random. Feeling is Conchie is going to be challenging the starters soon right? 
It’s just if we think Kosta is having an average game, we can try Supyk or Rudland instead of Parkhouse et al as our impact subs or pushing for a place.

Part of the difficulty is also a transition of style played which the players will have to adjust to.

(BTW Anyone know relationship counselors who can get Elliot and the Nix back together? I’d feel different about things with Callan there. I’d like the chance to see our new signing Al-Talay play in his chosen position. ) 

We’ll see how well it’s going with a few games! 

lthomas20

Personally would love to see Nix utilise the preseason to get around the country a lot more - home games not in Welly are hard to allocate during the season, so why not make a blast of it in the preseason? Could easily take the team to a few regional cities that don't usually see pro level football (Hamilton, Nelson, Napier, Dunedin?), play against the best local club side, promote the heck out of the games, build a regional rapport and get a much more valuable early preseason than just playing Olympic and Miramar for the 100th time...

It's a good chance to see who gets the crowds for home games away from home too!

So are you expecting the Nix to fund all this because it wont be cheap taking the team around the country i full understand why they dont do this. Better things to be spending the money on im afraid. With an Auckland team maybe coming in wouldnt expect the Nix to playing many games in that area.

ballane

lthomas20

Personally would love to see Nix utilise the preseason to get around the country a lot more - home games not in Welly are hard to allocate during the season, so why not make a blast of it in the preseason? Could easily take the team to a few regional cities that don't usually see pro level football (Hamilton, Nelson, Napier, Dunedin?), play against the best local club side, promote the heck out of the games, build a regional rapport and get a much more valuable early preseason than just playing Olympic and Miramar for the 100th time...

It's a good chance to see who gets the crowds for home games away from home too!

So are you expecting the Nix to fund all this because it wont be cheap taking the team around the country i full understand why they dont do this. Better things to be spending the money on im afraid. With an Auckland team maybe coming in wouldnt expect the Nix to playing many games in that area.

I'm sure it's costing them to travel over, pay for accomodation and play in these closed doors friendly games as well. 

mrsmiis

lthomas20

newzealandpower

I'm just going to leave this here...
#14 in blue looks pretty handy...

Meh, he looks average, let's sign more lads from the team that hasn't scored a goal yet!

JCS is easily talented enough to be at the Nix, but jesus… can we stop with this idea? God forbid we sign players from our own academy that a) we pump so much money into, and b) is undoubtedly one of the most successful in Australasia in recent years.

No wonder they’re prioritised - rightly so. They’re nurtured by familiar coaches and are completely familiar with their surroundings. Thought this was exceedinly obvious but most NL players will have comfortable jobs and aren’t able to relocate or pause studies, let alone be ready and willing to drop everything to be a squaddie for a year in the A-League with no guaranteed future.

Yeah, some absolutely deserving players in the National League who are good enough for the A-League. But acting like it’s a travesty that nothing’s been agreed this window is just absurd lmfao. Wonder how many people were begging to sign up NL players instead of Singh and Cacace

I'd really question the narrative, that the Nix have had  undoubtedly one of the most successful Academies in Australasia in recent years. That's if we use the barometer of young players being signed by Euro clubs. I think other teams in the ALM have done better recently. CCM, Adelaide & Melb City come to mind. 

Weenix are most likely in the top half. But they haven't been that great on this measurement (overseas signings) of late. Singh, Cacace & then Waine. Good but not super great. And last season there was paucity of Academy kids getting ALM mins under Talay. From memory Nix were near the bottom of the table re mins to young players last season. Things look like changing under Chiefy, so will be interesting to see how many of these Academy kids succeed in making the step up.
 

lthomas20

mrsmiis

lthomas20

newzealandpower

I'm just going to leave this here...
#14 in blue looks pretty handy...

Meh, he looks average, let's sign more lads from the team that hasn't scored a goal yet!

JCS is easily talented enough to be at the Nix, but jesus… can we stop with this idea? God forbid we sign players from our own academy that a) we pump so much money into, and b) is undoubtedly one of the most successful in Australasia in recent years.

No wonder they’re prioritised - rightly so. They’re nurtured by familiar coaches and are completely familiar with their surroundings. Thought this was exceedinly obvious but most NL players will have comfortable jobs and aren’t able to relocate or pause studies, let alone be ready and willing to drop everything to be a squaddie for a year in the A-League with no guaranteed future.

Yeah, some absolutely deserving players in the National League who are good enough for the A-League. But acting like it’s a travesty that nothing’s been agreed this window is just absurd lmfao. Wonder how many people were begging to sign up NL players instead of Singh and Cacace

At the time Singh and Cacace came through, they were the best young players in the club and just needed a chance when we weren't giving any out. 

We already have the best young players in the club in the first team prior to this season, now the club is choosing to sign riskier unproven players that are very young instead of adding the much needed experience. 

Perth Glory, Newcastle Jets before us have trodden this path - just by giving young players a lot of gametime in a poor side you do not create the best career opportunities. 

Yes Singh was exactly that, but either you weren't around then or have forgotten that Cacace was not a standout superstar in the academy team. He was a solid starting player who, frankly many were somewhat surprised when he got called up to start at left back. He took his chance and obviously has blossomed into an incredible footballer, but it wasn't always obvious that the was gonna happen. 

As to your second point, and I'm not being rude here, but you don't actually know. And neither do I, neither do most people. It's the cases like Cacace that prove that. Hughes or Supyk could turn out to be incredible, we just don't know - Conchie certainly looks the goods. But they need game time. It makes sense that if the club is gonna give out minutes which are finite, they go to the players that they've pumped money into developing (and would receive far more compensation for development in any future transfer)

It really surprises me that we are having this discussion. It is so obvious what an Academy is meant to be for, what are some of you guys expecting? 

I actually think Surman, Paulson, Lucas Kelly-Heald, and Finn Conch will surprise and do very well.

And if Sutton and Old can stay fit, prove their value too.

MetalLegNZ

I actually think Surman, Paulson, Lucas Kelly-Heald, and Finn Conch will surprise and do very well.

And if Sutton and Old can stay fit, prove their value too.

I asked a couple of the players on Sunday who were the the young guys they thought could step up and both said keep an eye on Supyk and Kelly-Heald they thought both of those showed they may be able to step up. They both said fans would be surprised how good some of the young guys are. Heres hoping.

Napier Phoenix

It really surprises me that we are having this discussion. It is so obvious what an Academy is meant to be for, what are some of you guys expecting? 

I think people are expecting that that Phoenix sign stand-out domestic players (e.g. FDV and JHS), which is what we often did up until about 4 years ago.  

I think the club's current strategy of instead giving those spots to academy grads makes sense, but it's also reasonable for people to see guys doing well in the national league, and want them to be given the chance to go the way of Siggy, Riera and Krishna

I thought that Rudland looked pretty useful in the Aus Cup pre-season as well.

For you guys in the know a bit more, thanks for the insights you've been providing in the chat.  Any comments you might add on the guys in the squad we've heard little about - where they are at and what their potential might be:

Karunaratne, 
Gillion, 
Wallace,
Ngyen,
Sheriden,
Manuel,
O'Connell McKay,
Partridge.

I've got a bit of perspective on Rudland, Conchie, Hughes, Supyk, KH, Surman from what we've seen of them in the past and this pre-season, and/or comments here.  But I'd be interested in updates on those we had in the squad last year and how they may be progressing, plus anything on the new guys we've not heard much about.

 

MetalLegNZ

I actually think Surman, Paulson, Lucas Kelly-Heald, and Finn Conch will surprise and do very well.

And if Sutton and Old can stay fit, prove their value too.

Feel like Sutton has already proved his worth, just not given full trust by Uffie for some reason. Old looked good last season compared to the previous so hopefully he steps it up yet another level.

mjp2

I thought that Rudland looked pretty useful in the Aus Cup pre-season as well.

For you guys in the know a bit more, thanks for the insights you've been providing in the chat.  Any comments you might add on the guys in the squad we've heard little about - where they are at and what their potential might be:

Karunaratne, 
Gillion, 
Wallace,
Ngyen,
Sheriden,
Manuel,
O'Connell McKay,
Partridge.

I've got a bit of perspective on Rudland, Conchie, Hughes, Supyk, KH, Surman from what we've seen of them in the past and this pre-season, and/or comments here.  But I'd be interested in updates on those we had in the squad last year and how they may be progressing, plus anything on the new guys we've not heard much about.

 

Add Nguyen to that list he looked good in the aus cup too.

Maybe there was a disconnect between the first team (based in Aus) and Weenix during Covid affected seasons.
Maybe it was the lack of proper full National League, for a season again due to Covid.
Maybe it was the change from the Weenix playing in the summer NL (Handy Prem), running concurrently to the ALM - compared to now a Central League and short National League season.

But last few ALM seasons, hasn't been that many Weenix alumini graduate to becoming first team squad regulars. From the 21/22 season when Mogg, Ott, Surman & OVH were all given scholarship deals, plus Henry Gray, Jackson Manuel, Riley Bidois & Luis Toomey all made match day ALM squads - only Surman & OVH are in this season's senior squad.

Hence why I question the theory for the moment, that the Weenix Academy is undoubtedly one of the best A League Academies.

Hopefully this season is different. You suspect it will be. It really has to be.
 

mjp2

I thought that Rudland looked pretty useful in the Aus Cup pre-season as well.

For you guys in the know a bit more, thanks for the insights you've been providing in the chat.  Any comments you might add on the guys in the squad we've heard little about - where they are at and what their potential might be:

Karunaratne, 
Gillion, 
Wallace,
Ngyen,
Sheriden,
Manuel,
O'Connell McKay,
Partridge.

I've got a bit of perspective on Rudland, Conchie, Hughes, Supyk, KH, Surman from what we've seen of them in the past and this pre-season, and/or comments here.  But I'd be interested in updates on those we had in the squad last year and how they may be progressing, plus anything on the new guys we've not heard much about.

 

 Wasn't there talk on the forum earlier of Karunaratne having overseas trials?

My initial post was tongue in cheek. I guess my big gripe about the whole JHS thing is that he's been passed on for years and I really believe he could have been a solid A league player and we missed out.
I'm all for giving Academy kids a chance. But I don't think targeting kids and the best performing players from the domestic league are mutually exclusive, especially when you're not bringing in Marquees from overseas. There's something to be said about domestic players who may be a bit older, but also more mature and have been part of winning teams that could really benefit us.

JHS trialled with the Nix last pre season. Someone in the know posted on here, that he didn't 'fit into the team culture' or similar. Around the same time as a rumour that Conchie had a training falling out with Talay, so never got a look in last season. Make of all that what you will. Uffie's way or the highway??

You'd think that JHS could have tried an overseas club somewhere by now, if he was super driven to be a pro footballer. Maybe he has other things going on in NZ career wise. But yeah looks like non Weenix NZ domestic players will have to wait for the new Auckland team, NST (2nd tier) in Aussie or possibly the proposed new OFC professional club league to get a pro opportunity close to home.

Thing is, even though the nix are targetting the talent from the academy they are not ignoring the older talent in the local leagues, they've got their scouting team watching games and players all over the country, BUT, if there is one spot available to two equally talented players then they'll give it to their own academy player first. Dome said that for a non-academy player to be considered they'd have to be kciking the door down or offering soemthing that noone in the academy was offering (tough but not impossible).
For whatever reason JHS trialled under Uffie and didnt impress. Doesnt mean he cant try again., but if he doesnt offer anything better than one of the academy lads he will struggle to get a look in,

Josh Laws left a comment on Sam Sutton's new Insta post:

"Sorry to hear about the knee champ. Chin up!"

Wonder if the injury's worse than we're aware... not great!