WPM 2023/24 Squad Speculation, Confirmation and Mutual Termination

It feels like the buyout clause and the club trying to be sustainable by getting transfer income has come sharply into focus. 

It’s a bit unfortunate as the academy had gone through a purple patch in producing talent. But talent can’t be regarded as any other product. 

It’s hard to know who’s at fault here. Perhaps Chief didn’t want him in any case? Or blamed Sail and others who were ambitious for their careers for not being focused on the job in hand and perhaps not being loyal club players? Though loyalty is a two way street. 

At the least it’s not a good way to start a transition. Again this story isn’t done, but it is hard to know what more there would be to add. 

martinb

It feels like the buyout clause and the club trying to be sustainable by getting transfer income has come sharply into focus. 

It’s a bit unfortunate as the academy had gone through a purple patch in producing talent. But talent can’t be regarded as any other product. 

It’s hard to know who’s at fault here. Perhaps Chief didn’t want him in any case? Or blamed Sail and others who were ambitious for their careers for not being focused on the job in hand and perhaps not being loyal club players? Though loyalty is a two way street. 

At the least it’s not a good way to start a transition. Again this story isn’t done, but it is hard to know what more there would be to add. 

A buyout clause is necessarily high. Or should be.  That is the price tag on the item, and if a buyer comes and says I’ll pay that, then the seller can’t say no.  That leaves a club open to having a player taken away when they least expect it or don’t have time to replace them.
That doesn’t mean the club won’t sell lower, just that anything lower needs to be negotiated. 
Don’t really see any reason for buyout clause at all outside superstar level. Players are contracted; if he wants to go and another club wants him, then sit round the table and negotiate.
Should be noted that no one ever pays MORE than the buyout clause. Why would any club set it low.

reg22

Released on a free is as cut price as it gets

We don't get any cash but we now have a lot of time to find a replacement. A low release clause and he could leave on the eve of the season & we have no time to find a replacement. The amount the club wanted would have reflected how much they valued him & the hassle to replace him at short notice.

Offer has been withdrawn. Doesn't mean it can be put forward again.

I've just gone and listened to Piney's chat with him, and I wanted to listen to the whole thing rather than get bits and pieces and soundbites that may not have given the full context.

As crestfallen as he sounded in that interview (and don't tell me otherwise that he wasn't down about it) it's a great lesson for him, as it will be for the Nix & Gilly down the line. Football is an ever changing, ever evolving game. It's as quick and up in the air on the field as it is on it. The Nix took a swing for the $$$ tree on his youth, talent, ever presence in the starting XI, his contributions on the park, and ultimately his U23 PotY status to drive home this $xxx,xxx value buyout figure, whereas young Callan admittedly had feelers out abroad via his agent for likely the vast majority of these negotiations, and all the while a contract has been sitting on the counter at home awaiting his signature. Gilly and them would have known what is was, so I don't know whether they can catch any of the "blame" at all on the matter because ultimately only time is going to tell in this instance. He'll 100% find another club no doubt, but I suspect it'll be closer to (former) home than expected, at least initially anyway.

Ultimately, it's a situation where no one wins. We lose a valued member of our side who has a whole lot of potential upswing, and now Callan faces the prospect of Unattached FC, and the whole merry-go-round of issues that come with that hanging over his head.

Best of luck to him though. I'm sure he'll land on his feet somewhere, and hopefully before too long as well. I will secretly be well pissed though if he lands at another A-League club next season and then earns a fee for a move further North. 

MetalLegNZ

Offer has been withdrawn. Doesn't mean it can be put forward again.

I actually think you're right.  A couple of months down the road it will be clear to see if Elliot gets a better deal elsewhere, or comes back for a reduced offer. 
It may not look pretty, but a club has to be able to stand its ground  - if they decided they want to stop low price buyouts then I am on the club's side; nothing against Elliot.

Doloras

Mainland FC

Careful there. If we go on like this, we are not gonna fulfill the daily doom gloom and misery quota. What's this forum turning into, a happy hour?

I cry in happy hour 

To be honest, Marillion were criminally underrated.

Mainland FC

Doloras

Mainland FC

Careful there. If we go on like this, we are not gonna fulfill the daily doom gloom and misery quota. What's this forum turning into, a happy hour?

I cry in happy hour 

To be honest, Marillion were criminally underrated.

It's tough to be stuck with the label of a "Genesis knock-off band", even if that was unfair after the first album or two. Nevertheless, they're still going (as is Fish with his solo career)

Does there actually need to have a buy out clause if both parties can’t contractually agree on one? Can’t agree so there is none, another club comes in with a bid and the club then decides whether the6 will accept it or not. Surely a buy out clause is really for the player so they can move away if they want to when someone comes in for them.

wilbaker

KiwiMancunian

Wellington Phoenix fans; All Whites fullback and under-23 player of the year Callan Elliot on air with me shortly to explain why he and the club couldn't reach agreement on a contract extension and therefore why he's leaving.@NewstalkZB pic.twitter.com/wxQmljwDab

— Jason Pine (@pineynz) May 13, 2023

Callan basically said him and the club couldn't agree on the buyout clause and the 'Nix pulled their offer the day before the departures were announced. Also said he didn't sleep for four nights after the Adelaide game. Definitely sounded a bit unsure as to who his next club will be.

Kinda dumb from us to price out the buy out clause unless he wanted a ridiculous low number but I feel we were probs wanting 750k-1m and maybe he was after 400-500k? But even with a low buyout clause that could entice clubs to use it and with a sell on clause you could still end making a decent amount? Instead he’s leaving on a free so we get nothing and don’t get to have him for another season. Really makes no sense tbh

wilbaker

billyspleen75

wilbaker

KiwiMancunian

Wellington Phoenix fans; All Whites fullback and under-23 player of the year Callan Elliot on air with me shortly to explain why he and the club couldn't reach agreement on a contract extension and therefore why he's leaving.@NewstalkZB pic.twitter.com/wxQmljwDab

— Jason Pine (@pineynz) May 13, 2023

Callan basically said him and the club couldn't agree on the buyout clause and the 'Nix pulled their offer the day before the departures were announced. Also said he didn't sleep for four nights after the Adelaide game. Definitely sounded a bit unsure as to who his next club will be.

Kinda dumb from us to price out the buy out clause unless he wanted a ridiculous low number but I feel we were probs wanting 750k-1m and maybe he was after 400-500k? But even with a low buyout clause that could entice clubs to use it and with a sell on clause you could still end making a decent amount? Instead he’s leaving on a free so we get nothing and don’t get to have him for another season. Really makes no sense tbh

What if the Nix wanted $350k and Elliot wanted $20k?

See how the narrative changes based on the numbers we make up? 

 
I see your point but it’s not really a good one because you can safely assume any player would try negotiate a buy out that low, it would just be insulting to the club. Even with a buyout that low they’d probs add at least 20% sell on clause with it so even selling Elliot for 20k with a sell on is a much better deal than letting him go for free. It’s just poor business from the club unless they weren’t really that arsed about keeping him next season
 

Hyperbole champ.

Unless the full details are ever disclosed, no one will actually have any idea who was in the wrong. Everyone's just making up random facts and figures to suit their narrative.

In Gillies interview he said the issue was they didn't want him leaving before or half way through the season and not being able to replace him. But I can also understand people's points of it being a bit tough on Elliot 

YoungHeartHM

I've just gone and listened to Piney's chat with him, and I wanted to listen to the whole thing rather than get bits and pieces and soundbites that may not have given the full context.

As crestfallen as he sounded in that interview (and don't tell me otherwise that he wasn't down about it) it's a great lesson for him, as it will be for the Nix & Gilly down the line. Football is an ever changing, ever evolving game. It's as quick and up in the air on the field as it is on it. The Nix took a swing for the $$$ tree on his youth, talent, ever presence in the starting XI, his contributions on the park, and ultimately his U23 PotY status to drive home this $xxx,xxx value buyout figure, whereas young Callan admittedly had feelers out abroad via his agent for likely the vast majority of these negotiations, and all the while a contract has been sitting on the counter at home awaiting his signature. Gilly and them would have known what is was, so I don't know whether they can catch any of the "blame" at all on the matter because ultimately only time is going to tell in this instance. He'll 100% find another club no doubt, but I suspect it'll be closer to (former) home than expected, at least initially anyway.

Ultimately, it's a situation where no one wins. We lose a valued member of our side who has a whole lot of potential upswing, and now Callan faces the prospect of Unattached FC, and the whole merry-go-round of issues that come with that hanging over his head.

Best of luck to him though. I'm sure he'll land on his feet somewhere, and hopefully before too long as well. I will secretly be well pissed though if he lands at another A-League club next season and then earns a fee for a move further North. 

I read an article last year penned by Tommy Oar. He shared some experiences from his own career on how brutal it can be for any player (young or old), the whole end of season period with guys being cut, and suddenly finding yourself with Unattached FC. Some players really take it hard, and it can be a tough time.

So yes a learning experience for Elliot (not saying he was at fault), and hopefully he gets a new gig soon. Not sure another ALM club would use a visa spot on him after the prelim final. But who saw Ridenton & Mcgarry ( at the time) being offered visa spots.

RR

reg22

Released on a free is as cut price as it gets

We don't get any cash but we now have a lot of time to find a replacement. A low release clause and he could leave on the eve of the season & we have no time to find a replacement. The amount the club wanted would have reflected how much they valued him & the hassle to replace him at short notice.

Devlin/Newcastle type situation…

martinb

RR

reg22

Released on a free is as cut price as it gets

We don't get any cash but we now have a lot of time to find a replacement. A low release clause and he could leave on the eve of the season & we have no time to find a replacement. The amount the club wanted would have reflected how much they valued him & the hassle to replace him at short notice.

Devlin/Newcastle type situation…

Exactly, funnily enough they share the same agent.

Isn't there only a few agents in the A-League? Difference is Eliot is an import in Australia so doesn't have the same options.

Ryan

Isn't there only a few agents in the A-League? Difference is Eliot is an import in Australia so doesn't have the same options.

Yeah, I don't think there is that many agents in the region. Al-Taay has the same agent, so they are someone we deal with regularly & will have too again in the future. 

I have no idea if they tried to do similar with Elliot, he definitely wasn't in as stronger position as Devlin was . Hopefully they can use any connections they made during that deal & get Elliot a move to the UK.

Obviously players always have to look out for themselves, but hearing Cal say he can't understand the club's stance and why they wouldn't lower the buy out clause seems pretty closed minded. 
Particularly the whole "I love this club" narrative that players always enjoy spouting despite a clause to leave the club (for the second time) being the thing standing in the way of staying.

Maybe now that Winston is retired and Stefan is second choice, Cal just wanted to keep up the tradition of an All White playing Unattached FC.

Recap.
Nix offered Cal 1 (2years?) year deal with high buyout clause as they think he is valuable player. The high buyout is to cover their asses with some extra cash in case he leaves midseason.
Cal would have accept the new contract but thinks the buyout is to high and limits his chances to change teams.
I understand both sides.
Cal is now shocked that he is without a club and that is very stressful.
For the Nix it’s much less emotional affair, they go after another player and move on. I guess it’s a sharkty part of the Business.
I hope the Nix find a good replacement and I hope Cal a new club ASAP.
PS: Now I remembering the Nix grooming Durante for an after Football career to see him leaving to the Bitumen/Rudan. Loyalty is just words at the end everyone is looking out for themselves. What is Dura up to these days?

Dura took two years and traveled around Australia in a campervan with his family. That was a fairly awesome thing to do- his home country was obviously calling to him a bit.

number8

Recap.
Nix offered Cal 1 (2years?) year deal with high buyout clause as they think he is valuable player. The high buyout is to cover their asses with some extra cash in case he leaves midseason.
Cal would have accept the new contract but thinks the buyout is to high and limits his chances to change teams.
I understand both sides.
Cal is now shocked that he is without a club and that is very stressful.
For the Nix it’s much less emotional affair, they go after another player and move on. I guess it’s a sharkty part of the Business.
I hope the Nix find a good replacement and I hope Cal a new club ASAP.
PS: Now I remembering the Nix grooming Durante for an after Football career to see him leaving to the Bitumen/Rudan. Loyalty is just words at the end everyone is looking out for themselves. What is Dura up to these days?

I think they were saying it was a three year deal.

Durante works at Western United in a player development role.

Maybe Ajak Riak for South Melbourne is worth a look.. A big athletic centre forward.. looks like he is maturing into an impressive footballer.. definitely stands out in Tier 2 Australia.

Kaiapoi Town

Maybe Ajak Riak for South Melbourne is worth a look.. A big athletic centre forward.. looks like he is maturing into an impressive footballer.. definitely stands out in Tier 2 Australia.

7 goals in 12 games in the Victorian NPL.

George Ott, who started the NPL season with a hiss & a roar, now has 5 goals also from 12 games. He had 5 after 3 games! Sent off in his 4th game, and not a goal since.
https://websites.mygameday.app/comp_info.cgi?client=0-10178-0-617938-0&a=STATS&sgroup=scoring&sgstat=Goals

Not the news I wanted to start the week with...

The following is from an interview with Zawada 
Translated from Polish to English.

Says a lot of positive things about the club, including the appointment of Chief, but ends the interview on this note...

image.png 136.46 KB

I remember when he was asked the normal questions about New Zealand and he said something like of course it's a beautiful country but I will play on mars if I have to. Careers are short and I wouldn't begrudge him going for a big money move somewhere else. Would obviously suck for the Nix and I hope he stays, but it is what it is. If he leaves the nix profit and he gave us his all and was an absolute role model. And, of course, the Nix don't have to sell him and offers might not materialise.

Wonder what his buyout clause is 👹

Hopefully Zawada stays, or we get a very decent amount for him. Maybe he'll have another crack at Korea?

He mentioned still being in touch with some mates from an old club in the above interview; one being a CB coming off contract this year. Maybe he could be convinced to come out this part of the world and in turn keep Zawada with the Nix? Dreams are free!!

https://www.transfermarkt.com/tomas-petrasek/profil/spieler/333261
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%C3%A1%C5%A1_Petr%C3%A1%C5%A1ek

dunnix

Hopefully Zawada stays, or we get a very decent amount for him. Maybe he'll have another crack at Korea?

He mentioned still being in touch with some mates from an old club in the above interview; one being a CB coming off contract this year. Maybe he could be convinced to come out this part of the world and in turn keep Zawada with the Nix? Dreams are free!!

https://www.transfermarkt.com/tomas-petrasek/profil/spieler/333261
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%C3%A1%C5%A1_Petr%C3%A1%C5%A1ek

Damn that guy’s huge, two metre Petra.

Trent

Not the news I wanted to start the week with...

The following is from an interview with Zawada 
Translated from Polish to English.

Says a lot of positive things about the club, including the appointment of Chief, but ends the interview on this note...

image.png 136.46 KB

If he goes then I don't think it is the end of the world. I think Chief is more than capable of picking another player of similar caliber. 

Zawada continues his career in a bigger club overseas and we make a nice little sum of money. That's good business for everyone honestly. 

I personally want to see everyone scoring and while I loved Zawada when he was scoring no one else was. We need more than one goal threat and I feel like you're more likely to have that if Zawada is not playing. Chief can also further develop the team the way he sees it too, who knows, maybe his next pick up will be even better...

love the optimism, but i think you're way off the mark

of our current imports, zawada is the only one who is worthy. kraev has the potential to be, but hasn't been.

in regards to goal threats, we will go from one goal threat to none. you said this like he was denying others the chance to be a goal threat. like zawada said himself, his ability to score is limited by the chances he is given by the team.

find another? in theory this should be easy, as there are plenty of available players worldwide, at any given time, who are well above the standard of the league. despite this we roll through 3-4 new imports a year, one of which might be a success. 

it's no sure thing and too much is made of how 'successful' we have been with our imports. it is true that we have had some very successful signings. but this is logical given the factors i have mentioned above. the reality is that most of our imports are 'ok for a mid table team'. for genuine quality imports, take a look at some of the imports they have across the ditch.

money is a factor, as is the status of the club. which is why we will always lose a successful import after one season. it's where we are at unfortunately.

reg22

love the optimism, but i think you're way off the mark

of our current imports, zawada is the only one who is worthy. kraev has the potential to be, but hasn't been.

in regards to goal threats, we will go from one goal threat to none. you said this like he was denying others the chance to be a goal threat. like zawada said himself, his ability to score is limited by the chances he is given by the team.

find another? in theory this should be easy, as there are plenty of available players worldwide, at any given time, who are well above the standard of the league. despite this we roll through 3-4 new imports a year, one of which might be a success. 

it's no sure thing and too much is made of how 'successful' we have been with our imports. it is true that we have had some very successful signings. but this is logical given the factors i have mentioned above. the reality is that most of our imports are 'ok for a mid table team'. for genuine quality imports, take a look at some of the imports they have across the ditch.

money is a factor, as is the status of the club. which is why we will always lose a successful import after one season. it's where we are at unfortunately.

I don't know about you but I thought it was pretty clear that at a certain point of the season we clearly changed the way were playing to specifically service Zawada. Crosses into the box and from the back of the field only benefit one kind of player and that is a giant Polish bloke. You aren't going to see David Ball or Kosta get on the end of those crosses. Kraev if he was in form might have been able to but as you said he was out of form. I think it was also a symptom of our entire team deciding that we had to be way more defensive with our leaky defence, working the ball around looked bloody dangerous after all. 

So in a way yes I think he was denying other players from being as much of a goal threat because we were playing a certain way to service him.  I think that contributed to players becoming out of form also. I'm not blaming Zawada in any way shape or form just stating what I was seeing. 

In terms of successful imports across the league, it would be nice to have those guys but we simply do not have the cash. I mean the most successful import is probably Valon Berisha who came from fudgeing Lazio - that is not a Nix signing in a million years. Which leads into your point about your point on lack of money and losing imports after 1 season which I completely agree with. 

It isn't really a surprise that Zawada would attract interest after a good season, there are plenty agents/clubs watching the league. It isn't a bad thing to have players that overseas clubs want to buy.

As much as it would suck to lose him, he is a visa & that opens up a lot more options for replacements.

RR

It isn't really a surprise that Zawada would attract interest after a good season, there are plenty agents/clubs watching the league. It isn't a bad thing to have players that overseas clubs want to buy.

As much as it would suck to lose him, he is a visa & that opens up a lot more options for replacements.

Yeah, but we would probably use that spot for a 9. Someone to score 10+ goals. Someone like... Zawada. 

It's a fair point you've got though that we need import spots badly to reinforce certain areas, but if Zawada goes we're definitely losing out. I wish Ball wasn't a visa player

Wouldn't be gutted about losing Zawada, we were never going to be keeping him beyond the end of the coming season anyway and if it's now we get some cash. Maybe spend the proceeds on Rojas 

Jazzy Jeff

RR

It isn't really a surprise that Zawada would attract interest after a good season, there are plenty agents/clubs watching the league. It isn't a bad thing to have players that overseas clubs want to buy.

As much as it would suck to lose him, he is a visa & that opens up a lot more options for replacements.

Yeah, but we would probably use that spot for a 9. Someone to score 10+ goals. Someone like... Zawada. 

It's a fair point you've got though that we need import spots badly to reinforce certain areas, but if Zawada goes we're definitely losing out. I wish Ball wasn't a visa player

The replacement not living up to Zawada is always a risk & the club would factor that into any transfer fee they agreed too. It isn't like they are gonna let him go for peanuts. 

anaveragestem

reg22

love the optimism, but i think you're way off the mark

of our current imports, zawada is the only one who is worthy. kraev has the potential to be, but hasn't been.

in regards to goal threats, we will go from one goal threat to none. you said this like he was denying others the chance to be a goal threat. like zawada said himself, his ability to score is limited by the chances he is given by the team.

find another? in theory this should be easy, as there are plenty of available players worldwide, at any given time, who are well above the standard of the league. despite this we roll through 3-4 new imports a year, one of which might be a success. 

it's no sure thing and too much is made of how 'successful' we have been with our imports. it is true that we have had some very successful signings. but this is logical given the factors i have mentioned above. the reality is that most of our imports are 'ok for a mid table team'. for genuine quality imports, take a look at some of the imports they have across the ditch.

money is a factor, as is the status of the club. which is why we will always lose a successful import after one season. it's where we are at unfortunately.

I don't know about you but I thought it was pretty clear that at a certain point of the season we clearly changed the way were playing to specifically service Zawada. Crosses into the box and from the back of the field only benefit one kind of player and that is a giant Polish bloke. You aren't going to see David Ball or Kosta get on the end of those crosses. Kraev if he was in form might have been able to but as you said he was out of form. I think it was also a symptom of our entire team deciding that we had to be way more defensive with our leaky defence, working the ball around looked bloody dangerous after all. 

So in a way yes I think he was denying other players from being as much of a goal threat because we were playing a certain way to service him.  I think that contributed to players becoming out of form also. I'm not blaming Zawada in any way shape or form just stating what I was seeing. 

In terms of successful imports across the league, it would be nice to have those guys but we simply do not have the cash. I mean the most successful import is probably Valon Berisha who came from fudgeing Lazio - that is not a Nix signing in a million years. Which leads into your point about your point on lack of money and losing imports after 1 season which I completely agree with. 

you're right on the money there. we clearly did change in order to capitalise on what we had in zawada

however, this style change wasn't made at the expense of others. i would argue that it pushed the opposition line back and set a better platform for those around him to either create or score. players like zawada are better known for playing other players in than scoring.

i mean, imagine partnering a striker like zawada all season and only scoring one goal?!

imanixsupporter

Wouldn't be gutted about losing Zawada, we were never going to be keeping him beyond the end of the coming season anyway and if it's now we get some cash. Maybe spend the proceeds on Rojas 

as much as Rojas has lit the aleague up when he's played with Victory I reckon he'll end up being a Kosta like signing, emotively positive but on the field he'll dissapopint and wont be the star we need. Besides he's not gonn abe the Zawada replacement type. If Zawada goes, I'd like to see us replace him with someone of a simlar style, with Kosta, Ball, Kraev we have decent ball playing attackers, but noone else with the size to really trouble defences.

theprof

imanixsupporter

Wouldn't be gutted about losing Zawada, we were never going to be keeping him beyond the end of the coming season anyway and if it's now we get some cash. Maybe spend the proceeds on Rojas 

as much as Rojas has lit the aleague up when he's played with Victory I reckon he'll end up being a Kosta like signing, emotively positive but on the field he'll dissapopint and wont be the star we need. Besides he's not gonn abe the Zawada replacement type. If Zawada goes, I'd like to see us replace him with someone of a simlar style, with Kosta, Ball, Kraev we have decent ball playing attackers, but noone else with the size to really trouble defences.

i don't want that to be true, but you're probably right

Oh of course we would need to replace zawada with a like for like, I just was thinking we could use the salary zawada is getting for that and the transfer fee for a Rojas or equivalent 

theprof

imanixsupporter

Wouldn't be gutted about losing Zawada, we were never going to be keeping him beyond the end of the coming season anyway and if it's now we get some cash. Maybe spend the proceeds on Rojas 

as much as Rojas has lit the aleague up when he's played with Victory I reckon he'll end up being a Kosta like signing, emotively positive but on the field he'll dissapopint and wont be the star we need. Besides he's not gonn abe the Zawada replacement type. If Zawada goes, I'd like to see us replace him with someone of a simlar style, with Kosta, Ball, Kraev we have decent ball playing attackers, but noone else with the size to really trouble defences.

Hopefully Zawada stays, but if he goes we need someone to replace him that is not only quality but has pace. On paper lots of of our attacking players are okay, but really there just isn't much speed. We often looked better with Sotirio/Waine on the field over the last couple of seasons as they offered that, we have a very slow squad in general. Kosta used to be quick but isn't noticably so anymore and will only get slower.