WPM FFA Cup vs Avondale FC | Tues 14th December | 9:30pm | My Football (YouTube)

Thanks, your right! 

Edit - quote function is hard on mobile... Ignore. 

I'm just not going enjoy watching the rest of the season as much if it's a constant pairing of Lewis and Rufer. Seeing them muddle their way through the midfield is akin to that feeling of uncontrolled rage that comes after the first two seconds after hitting your head on a sharp corner.

Rufer’s regression in both passing range and creative vision over the past year or two is honestly baffling.

Compounded with a glaring lack of defensive awareness, I can’t help but feel we’ll never reach our potential with him as a regular starter

Rufer is not up to it, and what has happened to Lewis?

Who scored that 4th goal?

You'r2 almost like Royz with your anti Rufer posts Mrsmiis.

Pennington and Rufer dominated - Rufer and Lewis did not. The weak link tonight was Lewis, as it was against Newcastle.

Rufer's role is to slow and control the ball to allow us to play... yes its frustrating, but its how we are set up, unless we are countering further up.

Rufer is just Rufer.. He's okay and will be serviceable as a squad player but is never going to be great. I'm more worried about Lewis, he was improving and looking the goods then had a bad Olympics and has carried that on since.

Rufer's shortcomings are again obvious against a semi pro team, I think at best Rufer will slowly become a Vinnie Lia for the team, a great squadie, but that's about it.  To fix our midfield problems I'm actually starting to think if it's worth exploring the idea of pairing Ball up with either Pennington or Lewis, once Sandova arrives.   Ball has great engine, ball control, vision, distribution, and most importantly a good forward drive mentality.  

Glad we got the win but some of the guys today did themselves no favours.

Good game:
Ball (poss MoM)
Sotirio (2 very good goals)
Fenton
Elliott
Pennington

Poor game:
Van Hattum (still young and learning).
Rufer
Piscipo
Lewis

It's a bit of a worry that our 3 first choice midfielders were all underwhelming against a 10 man amateur side.

MetalLegNZ

You'r2 almost like Royz with your anti Rufer posts Mrsmiis.

Pennington and Rufer dominated - Rufer and Lewis did not. The weak link tonight was Lewis, as it was against Newcastle.

Rufer's role is to slow and control the ball to allow us to play... yes its frustrating, but its how we are set up, unless we are countering further up.

 
Feel the same on Lewis, but I’m really not sure how to respond to the rest of this. This is my first post here criticising Rufer - I’ve pined for him in the past and judge players on merit. Do you disagree with my assessment?

I'd like to see Talay play both Fenton and Elliott at the back (hopefully one can play on the left) and push McGarry onto the left wing where he has looked dangerous and a lot more comfortable.  Push Piscipo into the RW with Ball and Pennington in the middle and drop both Rufer and Lewis.  Play Wayne and Sotirio up front.

Sail
Fenton/Elliott    Laws    Payne     Fenton/Elliott
Piscipo     Pennington      Ball    McGarry
Sotirio    Wayne

Man...our midfield looked more stable with Pennington on. Hopefully he can start. 

AND CAN WE PLEASE HAVE BALL PLAY AS ATTACKING MID NOW? He showed in the game today how creative he is. Plus we play better with him in attacking mid.

The idea of McGarry playing further up must have been tested and dispensed with I think. With Piscopo’s blues and Hooper out, if it’s not happening now, it won’t happen. 
Ball is absolutely better in the wide right position IMO. Waine a mixed bag this season? Time for him to go on a scoring run! 

And if my previous comments haven’t made it clear, my understanding of central midfield play is fairly much that I consider it some kind of voodoo. I hope we get the voodoo right soon.
Sutton and Fenton the starting pair at the FBs? 
Elliot is another who could be tried a little further forward too, perhaps…

See the game was played in Broadmeadows. That's a tough Melbourne hood. Bit like going to Wainui.

Interesting that Surman was the backup CB, and even got a few minutes. No word on Bozinovski being injured?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/127257413/wellington-phoenix-see-off-10man-avondale-to-reach-ffa-cup-quarterfinals

Well done Waino - an assist and a goal, Bally superb, Piscopo a lot better than recently. Sotirio - excellent finishing.
Rufer held that middle well, Lewis not quite as productive. Pennington was OK.
I don't think Fenton and Sutton will have ousted the regulars, though Louis must be close. 
Now for Sydney.

I’m no rufer fan and stopped watching not long after they scored , but as someone else mentioned, Lewis’ form has gone off a cliff since last season. Wtf is it? He’s awful at the moment. Which given how much he improved last season is a huge disappointment. Rufer doesn’t deserve the stick from last night. 

First half was pretty professional I thought and sotirios finishes; especially the second was great to see. Hopefully he goes on a wee run now. Waine really needs to start taking his chances. That free header was a horror show. Good on him for following rufers header in, just to make sure, but I know he’s young so it’ll be a very inconsistent season for him I think. 

All in all, through to the 1/4ers so can’t complain. Hopefully give the team a much needed confidence boost! 

Marto

Repeat of the Jest game.  I think it's clear that Rufer and Lewis are not a good pairing and Reno is not the playmaker we all think he is.  

I'd start Pennington on the weekend instead of Lewis.  Pity there is no one to push Rufer on to the bench.

Can't wait for our new loan player in January.  We need him NOW.

maybe this is the issue with Rufer this season, he and Lewis dont pay well together? 

4-1 against a semi-pro team - good job.
We did what we had two and the game was over in the first 35 when we'd scored 3 and they had a man sent off.

Ball look great out wide and I agree with some of the points made earlier that he really needs to move into a central attacking mid role. He could take over the Davilla role and let Reno hand out wide and cause havoc along with the new Mexican on the other wing, Let Lewis/Rufer/Pennington fight it out for the other CM role.Back four looked solid today, except for the one slip up in the second spell when they scored.
I think the Lewis/Rufer pairing is our primary problem to solve, they just dont seem to work well together - perhaps its because they both sit too depp and labour over their decision making, one of those type of players is ok, but you need a Devlin type player beside them who has an engine and thinks quickly (Ball could solve that I think assuming he plays a little higher). Would mean a small shape change for us I think as Ball would be employed a little higher up the pitch than Rufer or Lewis.
Fenton and Sutton looked solid and created some width which put Avondale under real pressure - wont be long before they are starting I dont think.
https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/61b8e9e8d998900ebe44701f

theprof

Marto

Repeat of the Jest game.  I think it's clear that Rufer and Lewis are not a good pairing and Reno is not the playmaker we all think he is.  

I'd start Pennington on the weekend instead of Lewis.  Pity there is no one to push Rufer on to the bench.

Can't wait for our new loan player in January.  We need him NOW.

maybe this is the issue with Rufer this season, he and Lewis dont pay well together? 

Agree. I liked Rufer next to Devlin, and he did some fantastic stuff next to Steinmann. But yeah, the Rufer/Lewis combination was proven to fail early last season, left some pretty egregious gaps in behind. Our 11-game unbeaten run came when that Rufer/Lewis partnership finally ended.

I think there's still a great player in Rufer, but it can't be unleashed in a two-man midfield, especially when the guy next to him is offensive-minded and he's asked to shoulder defensive work he can't cope with

theprof

4-1 against a semi-pro team - good job.
We did what we had two and the game was over in the first 35 when we'd scored 3 and they had a man sent off.

Ball look great out wide and I agree with some of the points made earlier that he really needs to move into a central attacking mid role. He could take over the Davilla role and let Reno hand out wide and cause havoc along with the new Mexican on the other wing, Let Lewis/Rufer/Pennington fight it out for the other CM role.Back four looked solid today, except for the one slip up in the second spell when they scored.
I think the Lewis/Rufer pairing is our primary problem to solve, they just dont seem to work well together - perhaps its because they both sit too depp and labour over their decision making, one of those type of players is ok, but you need a Devlin type player beside them who has an engine and thinks quickly (Ball could solve that I think assuming he plays a little higher). Would mean a small shape change for us I think as Ball would be employed a little higher up the pitch than Rufer or Lewis.
Fenton and Sutton looked solid and created some width which put Avondale under real pressure - wont be long before they are starting I dont think.
https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/61b8e9e8d998900ebe44701f

I sort of like the idea of having ball as part of the midfield two, but a diamond midfield four really needs the wide players to remain narrow otherwise the opposition will find it too easy to pass between the lines. The commentators mentioned that Pennington apparently made more tackles resulting in turnovers than any other player during the previous FFA cup game, so maybe he is the Devlin replacement we're looking for. Not as mobile as Cammy, but appears to have a much better passing range. I think a Rufer/Pennington midfield is worth a go vs SFC.

with the diamond midfield, you can ask the wide guys to defend narrow. Its kind of what we do now, on attack we play wide, but that changes on defense,.

theprof

with the diamond midfield, you can ask the wide guys to defend narrow. Its kind of what we do now, on attack we play wide, but that changes on defense,.

Yeah thats true, but the main difference is their natual starting position during a transition. During unstructed play at least one or possibly both are probably going to be too wide to properly join an effective counter-attack stopping mid-block.

Best I have seen Laws play - looked very comfortable and dominant. 

I am not sure the criticism of Rufer is fair. I was one that thought he was poor the first couple of games. Both our CM seem to be holding very deep and limiting themsleves creatively, far more than last season. At best they occopy space and screen the opposition in front of them. In attack they recycle possession either sideways or backwards. 

 I would say this is a Talay tactic more than anything, as Lewis has looked like he has been told to play away from his normal game.

Was at the game.. first half was very good and quick passing in the final third caused them all sorts of problems. Second half for whatever reason they went to sleep and Avondale probably deserved their goal as they had a few chances before hand to score also. Ufuk wasn’t happy at all with the defensive structure and you could hear him being upset at Payne and Laws at times which I thought was interesting. Would like to see Pannington start next game

We won 4-1.  And we could have easily had another 2.  Waine and Van Hattam quilty of missing clear chances. I though first half was good, second disappointing. I like Ball in the AM role. Think Pennington deserves a start on Sunday. 
Lot of critique on our DM's and fair enough after that result against Newcastle.
On the back of that quick turn around in games, we now have six games in the next 3 and a bit weeks. So it's going to be a full squad effort. Can see the DM role being rotated and the likes of Fenton and Sutton getting more minutes in the high energy full back role. So lots of competition for places. I really hope we see players step up, and we can get some results. 

Think the comments on Rufer are fair. The best we could do in the 2nd half was a 1 all draw against a 10 man non A leaguer team and I think fo the most part they looked better than us re possession. 

I am sorry to be ‘knocking’ Rufer bu he got caught in possession far to many times and though it mayb be us he couldnt find an outlet, against better teams that will cost us. He is also fouling far too much and often unnecessarilly..I am not sure the captain responsibilities have caused him to lift his game.

I think Payne is doing well at the back, Sotirio used his speed well and finished well which is great. Disappointed in Wayne not getting at least more of his opportunities on target.

If that is the best we have, the other A league exams may open us up like Newcastle did… hopefully proven wrong this weekend when we face Sydney

JBoss

Think the comments on Rufer are fair. The best we could do in the 2nd half was a 1 all draw against a 10 man non A leaguer team and I think fo the most part they looked better than us re possession. 

I am sorry to be ‘knocking’ Rufer bu he got caught in possession far to many times and though it mayb be us he couldnt find an outlet, against better teams that will cost us. He is also fouling far too much and often unnecessarilly..I am not sure the captain responsibilities have caused him to lift his game.

I think Payne is doing well at the back, Sotirio used his speed well and finished well which is great. Disappointed in Wayne not getting at least more of his opportunities on target.

If that is the best we have, the other A league exams may open us up like Newcastle did… hopefully proven wrong this weekend when we face Sydney

Are the comments really that fair? Yours and others focus on the second half, but Rufer also played the first half, where Avondale barely got to touch the ball. Also Rufer has already played against A-League opposition 4 times this season (including two teams in the top 5) and only once has the team been opened up.

I guess the only thing we can all say with confidence is we've found this seasons designated scapegoat.

djtim3000

JBoss

Think the comments on Rufer are fair. The best we could do in the 2nd half was a 1 all draw against a 10 man non A leaguer team and I think fo the most part they looked better than us re possession. 

I am sorry to be ‘knocking’ Rufer bu he got caught in possession far to many times and though it mayb be us he couldnt find an outlet, against better teams that will cost us. He is also fouling far too much and often unnecessarilly..I am not sure the captain responsibilities have caused him to lift his game.

I think Payne is doing well at the back, Sotirio used his speed well and finished well which is great. Disappointed in Wayne not getting at least more of his opportunities on target.

If that is the best we have, the other A league exams may open us up like Newcastle did… hopefully proven wrong this weekend when we face Sydney

Are the comments really that fair? Yours and others focus on the second half, but Rufer also played the first half, where Avondale barely got to touch the ball. Also Rufer has already played against A-League opposition 4 times this season (including two teams in the top 5) and only once has the team been opened up.

I guess the only thing we can all say with confidence is we've found this seasons designated scapegoat.

I really don't like how valid (and quite evident) criticism is passed off as scapegoating now. Again - good player in the right circumstances, but it's painfully obvious that these aren't.

Football isn't black and white

The criticism of Sotirio has been that he gets into goal scoring positions and his finishing is awful.
But those were two very well taken goals: finishing power for the first and composure for the second.
20/21 -Sotirio.
21/22 - Rufer.
The one observation I'll make is that a lot of you guys have a poor opinion of Talay's selection ability as he not only keeps on playing Rufer but makes him (vice) captain.

The last couple of games we have been very ponderous with our possession. Also our pattern play seems fairly predictable - get a little bit boxed on one wing, try and work it the opposite AM that has moved inside or one of the forwards that has dropped deep and release the overlapping fullback. Think if Hooper is not going to be on the last shoulder then Sotirio (or Waine) needs to looking for through balls and balls over the top, gives us a different aspect to our attack and stretch the opposition a little bit more.

mrsmiis

djtim3000

JBoss

Think the comments on Rufer are fair. The best we could do in the 2nd half was a 1 all draw against a 10 man non A leaguer team and I think fo the most part they looked better than us re possession. 

I am sorry to be ‘knocking’ Rufer bu he got caught in possession far to many times and though it mayb be us he couldnt find an outlet, against better teams that will cost us. He is also fouling far too much and often unnecessarilly..I am not sure the captain responsibilities have caused him to lift his game.

I think Payne is doing well at the back, Sotirio used his speed well and finished well which is great. Disappointed in Wayne not getting at least more of his opportunities on target.

If that is the best we have, the other A league exams may open us up like Newcastle did… hopefully proven wrong this weekend when we face Sydney

Are the comments really that fair? Yours and others focus on the second half, but Rufer also played the first half, where Avondale barely got to touch the ball. Also Rufer has already played against A-League opposition 4 times this season (including two teams in the top 5) and only once has the team been opened up.

I guess the only thing we can all say with confidence is we've found this seasons designated scapegoat.

I really don't like how valid (and quite evident) criticism is passed off as scapegoating now. Again - good player in the right circumstances, but it's painfully obvious that these aren't.

Football isn't black and white

You may not like the criticism being called scapegoating - but that is exactly what is happening. First half: Team playing well, Rufer barely mentioned on the forum apart from when he almost scores. Second half: Team playing badly, suddenly every second post is critical of Rufer. Were the other 10 players on the field carrying him for the entire first half?

As you say, football isn't black and white, but I'm not the one equating 'Nix not playing well = Rufer isn't good enough'

djtim3000

mrsmiis

djtim3000

JBoss

Think the comments on Rufer are fair. The best we could do in the 2nd half was a 1 all draw against a 10 man non A leaguer team and I think fo the most part they looked better than us re possession. 

I am sorry to be ‘knocking’ Rufer bu he got caught in possession far to many times and though it mayb be us he couldnt find an outlet, against better teams that will cost us. He is also fouling far too much and often unnecessarilly..I am not sure the captain responsibilities have caused him to lift his game.

I think Payne is doing well at the back, Sotirio used his speed well and finished well which is great. Disappointed in Wayne not getting at least more of his opportunities on target.

If that is the best we have, the other A league exams may open us up like Newcastle did… hopefully proven wrong this weekend when we face Sydney

Are the comments really that fair? Yours and others focus on the second half, but Rufer also played the first half, where Avondale barely got to touch the ball. Also Rufer has already played against A-League opposition 4 times this season (including two teams in the top 5) and only once has the team been opened up.

I guess the only thing we can all say with confidence is we've found this seasons designated scapegoat.

I really don't like how valid (and quite evident) criticism is passed off as scapegoating now. Again - good player in the right circumstances, but it's painfully obvious that these aren't.

Football isn't black and white

You may not like the criticism being called scapegoating - but that is exactly what is happening. First half: Team playing well, Rufer barely mentioned on the forum apart from when he almost scores. Second half: Team playing badly, suddenly every second post is critical of Rufer. Were the other 10 players on the field carrying him for the entire first half?

As you say, football isn't black and white, but I'm not the one equating 'Nix not playing well = Rufer isn't good enough'

Neither are we mate - don't project.

mrsmiis

djtim3000

mrsmiis

djtim3000

JBoss

Think the comments on Rufer are fair. The best we could do in the 2nd half was a 1 all draw against a 10 man non A leaguer team and I think fo the most part they looked better than us re possession. 

I am sorry to be ‘knocking’ Rufer bu he got caught in possession far to many times and though it mayb be us he couldnt find an outlet, against better teams that will cost us. He is also fouling far too much and often unnecessarilly..I am not sure the captain responsibilities have caused him to lift his game.

I think Payne is doing well at the back, Sotirio used his speed well and finished well which is great. Disappointed in Wayne not getting at least more of his opportunities on target.

If that is the best we have, the other A league exams may open us up like Newcastle did… hopefully proven wrong this weekend when we face Sydney

Are the comments really that fair? Yours and others focus on the second half, but Rufer also played the first half, where Avondale barely got to touch the ball. Also Rufer has already played against A-League opposition 4 times this season (including two teams in the top 5) and only once has the team been opened up.

I guess the only thing we can all say with confidence is we've found this seasons designated scapegoat.

I really don't like how valid (and quite evident) criticism is passed off as scapegoating now. Again - good player in the right circumstances, but it's painfully obvious that these aren't.

Football isn't black and white

You may not like the criticism being called scapegoating - but that is exactly what is happening. First half: Team playing well, Rufer barely mentioned on the forum apart from when he almost scores. Second half: Team playing badly, suddenly every second post is critical of Rufer. Were the other 10 players on the field carrying him for the entire first half?

As you say, football isn't black and white, but I'm not the one equating 'Nix not playing well = Rufer isn't good enough'

Neither are we mate - don't project.

yeah because defending what i believe is undue criticism is actually projecting. right.

I think real issue here is that in our heart of hearts we all know that if the pandemic was not on, Taylor would still be captain and we would have one or two class import mids keeping Rufer on the bench as a squaddie.  

As others have said, he's just like Vinny.  Very much a key Nix man but not one you build a squad around or play week in week out.

All I'll say is it's quite nice to be on a cup run, rather than a pre-season loss

Of course, it has to happen in the season where we have a paper-thin squad!

dunnix

All I'll say is it's quite nice to be on a cup run, rather than a pre-season loss

Of course, it has to happen in the season where we have a paper-thin squad!

Yeh mate- half a month and counting of two Nix (M) games a week! Happy camper here. The risk of an injury and the impact that might have just adds to the drama imo.

When’s our next cup game? Not today??

martinb

When’s our next cup game? Not today??

 
Tomorrow night 9:30 vs Melbourne City

It'd be good to knock these dudes out of the cup. Let's go!