Well said. It’s unlikely major financial change can happen, so what you have said is absolutely right.Ranix
Generally where there's smoke there's fire. And I hope the club can be humble and respectful in response to this. NZ has a bad track record in treatment of females in Pro environments. Canoeing, Cycling, Rugby to name a few. Although its hardly surprising there are issues when you think its the first female pro football team in NZ and at the Nix. Integrating a female team into a long established male environment will come with challenges. Important that the Nix get the right help here to address this. The sentence that got me in Chloes post "Its not good enough to wait for something drastic to happen before changes are made" This rings so true, you just need to reflect on Olivia Podmore and what happened at NZ cycling. Also currently what happening at Sheffield United Women with Maddy Cusack. I personally hope the club makes the moves to show the players they takes this seriously, but also that the players can appreciate it is a really new thing for the club to be establishing the first womens pro team in NZ, and that not everything is going to be perfect from the start.
The Football Ferns are ecstatic losing all the time under Klimkova. No Nix players in the A-League Women ever seemed to have any issues with the team culture as they finished dead last twice. Now they are winning and all of a sudden there are significant issues with culture? Elite women's sport is clearly a very different beast.
Knott's exit is giving me the same vibes as Goodwin's recent departure from Adelaide. Completely self-serving (and good on him for looking out for himself and his family) but wanting to have his cake and eat it too by making it look like Adelaide forced him to leave and he really really wanted to stay. I wonder if Knott is doing something similar, trying to justify her decision to herself as something other than purely a selfish one.
wow, quite the statement. I imagine she enjoyed her time playing for Auckland United and has probably been offered a job as a full time psychiatrist which will earn the real big bucks. Probably worth focusing on that for now and perhaps looking to go pro again in 2 years closer to the next world cup.
She's a trained psychiatrist? And Alyssa Whinham has supported her comments online? Whinham with her own mental health struggles at the Nix.
Just wondering if there has culture shift under Temple with a stronger emphasis on winning, more open critcism of poor performance etc etc. Also wonder if the 4 North Americans who lets be honest are different to us culturally, have bought in a more competitive, hating to lose, win at all costs attitude. If so yeah some players from the first two years could struggle with that. Start to resent those loud visa player voices at training. But really we are all just guessing.
However if you start finding a job you loved a lot less fun, you are being paid peanuts, and you have a much higher paying alternative gig in the offering - well most of us would consider leaving. With it's very limited TV rights and sponsorship income (I remember in the first Nix ALW season Domey was basically pleading for a principal sponsor), the ALW will always be a development type league, even more so than the ALM. Doesn't seem in NZ anyway sadly, that the success of the WWC has brought foward any new big name sponsors for the Nix women.
So if at 27, no European or US clubs are looking at you, I guess you have to seriously weigh it all up. Especially as you see your same age group friends starting to earn some good coin.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Knott and Whinham the only two players effectively inherited from last season?
I wonder if plans for Wisnewski's injury replacement was looking detrimental to either's involvement in future matchday squads, possibly inspiring those references to appreciating commitment and sacrifice or to genuine care for development.
Players from last season still in the squad: - Knott - Whinham - Taylor - VDM - Barry - Foster - Wisnewski - Edwards - McMeeken - Robertson
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Knott and Whinham the only two players effectively inherited from last season?
I wonder if plans for Wisnewski's injury replacement was looking detrimental to either's involvement in future matchday squads, possibly inspiring those references to appreciating commitment and sacrifice or to genuine care for development.
Players from last season still in the squad: - Knott - Whinham - Taylor - VDM - Barry - Foster - Wisnewski - Edwards - McMeeken - Robertson
I think cheesecake was talking inherited as in 'they had a contract that carried over'. I might be wrong there though.
If they’re signing an import as a replacement couldn’t they just given Knott a pay increase? I guess they may not rate her enough to pay her more than just signing a new import
Squad salary cap for the league is $630k, Chloe leaving I assume frees up $30k, said import could just be looking for a part time gig in their off season so an easy $20k for a 4 month stint would make sense.
The new Auckland team for next year have a womens team as well dont they....watch this spacepickledmyself
wow, quite the statement. I imagine she enjoyed her time playing for Auckland United and has probably been offered a job as a full time psychiatrist which will earn the real big bucks. Probably worth focusing on that for now and perhaps looking to go pro again in 2 years closer to the next world cup.
not unitl 2025. so if Chloe does end up in auckland working full time she'll have to wait a year before getting on board with the new Auckland franchise.
Her main criticism was a lack of honesty, so I don't think we should read more into it than that. But, that's also the opposite of a view that a few have on here which was she can't handle a winning culture with open criticism. Until the Phoenix respond, we can only take the statements from Chloe on face value.
Whinham will be next out. Knott was on verge of NZ team too,and touted as phoenix captain too. It's all very strange.
Sounds like they are paid peanuts. I can't see how the training and travel requirements leave time for any other work, during the season after least. Does anyone else work another job,i haven't seen Mack Barry down at Countdown in the evenings?
I thought I read somewhere, they train in the mornings. Winds up about 1pm. So def time for part time work after that. I know some are saying money is not the issue but. Knott signed a two year contract start of season 2. At start of season 3 ALW salary cap increased 20%. So she still could have been on older/ lesser wages. Temple said the team were given a 4 day weekend this weekend. So good chance for Nix management to get together and figure out how to address this with the players before they return.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Knott and Whinham the only two players effectively inherited from last season?
I wonder if plans for Wisnewski's injury replacement was looking detrimental to either's involvement in future matchday squads, possibly inspiring those references to appreciating commitment and sacrifice or to genuine care for development.
Players from last season still in the squad: - Knott - Whinham - Taylor - VDM - Barry - Foster - Wisnewski - Edwards - McMeeken - Robertson
I think cheesecake was talking inherited as in 'they had a contract that carried over'. I might be wrong there though.
That's the one – though it's probably fair to assume from her playing time that Temple (and Gill, etc.) would have willingly signed Knott for this season in any case. Whether that applies to Whinham is another question, though I'm mindful of heading too far down assumption alley and might have already gone well off-track with this thinking.
2 issues I think, one is the payment situation and that is probably no different to other sports, both men and women. Thinking netball and rugby where pay is reasonably low and working another job is not unusual. Basketball imports can be on similar money but have the ability to play up to 3 seasons in a year to offset that.
The other issue is the cultural/treatment one that she alludes to. That will be what it is but perhaps not too widespread given how well the team is going at the moment. Unusual for a disgruntled team to perform so far above expectations if it is rotten within. Over the top of all this, I am a male and have absolutely no appreciation of female perceptions in sport so it is a mystery. I can only think if Doloras on here that might be able to provide a womin’s perspective on this
It’s odd for a team that has been playing for each other as well as this team has to have culture problems.
She accuses the club of not being honest, authentic, respecting individual’s sacrifices or having a genuine care for each individual.
Definitely seems like something to do with her distance relationship, and perhaps promises made? Let’s be clear that she didn’t use the word abuse, but alludes to some kind of failure of duty of care?
I thought I read somewhere, they train in the mornings. Winds up about 1pm. So def time for part time work after that. I know some are saying money is not the issue but. Knott signed a two year contract start of season 2. At start of season 3 ALW salary cap increased 20%. So she still could have been on older/ lesser wages. Temple said the team were given a 4 day weekend this weekend. So good chance for Nix management to get together and figure out how to address this with the players before they return.
The contracting period also increased by quite a few weeks so the weekly wage wouldn't have gone up that much despite the touted 20% increase.
2 issues I think, one is the payment situation and that is probably no different to other sports, both men and women. Thinking netball and rugby where pay is reasonably low and working another job is not unusual. Basketball imports can be on similar money but have the ability to play up to 3 seasons in a year to offset that.
The other issue is the cultural/treatment one that she alludes to. That will be what it is but perhaps not too widespread given how well the team is going at the moment. Unusual for a disgruntled team to perform so far above expectations if it is rotten within. Over the top of all this, I am a male and have absolutely no appreciation of female perceptions in sport so it is a mystery. I can only think if Doloras on here that might be able to provide a womin’s perspective on this
I see Davidson posted on IG taking about a positive environment this morning indicating there are some difference in opinions across the squad (perhaps depending on who was around in previous years and who wasn't)
2 issues I think, one is the payment situation and that is probably no different to other sports, both men and women. Thinking netball and rugby where pay is reasonably low and working another job is not unusual. Basketball imports can be on similar money but have the ability to play up to 3 seasons in a year to offset that.
The other issue is the cultural/treatment one that she alludes to. That will be what it is but perhaps not too widespread given how well the team is going at the moment. Unusual for a disgruntled team to perform so far above expectations if it is rotten within. Over the top of all this, I am a male and have absolutely no appreciation of female perceptions in sport so it is a mystery. I can only think if Doloras on here that might be able to provide a womin’s perspective on this
I see Davidson posted on IG taking about a positive environment this morning indicating there are some difference in opinions across the squad (perhaps depending on who was around in previous years and who wasn't)
Probably a much tougher/ professional culture under Temple than the previous‘ bring a teddy bear’ setup under Nat. Not for everyone and if you don’t like it move on.
2 issues I think, one is the payment situation and that is probably no different to other sports, both men and women. Thinking netball and rugby where pay is reasonably low and working another job is not unusual. Basketball imports can be on similar money but have the ability to play up to 3 seasons in a year to offset that.
The other issue is the cultural/treatment one that she alludes to. That will be what it is but perhaps not too widespread given how well the team is going at the moment. Unusual for a disgruntled team to perform so far above expectations if it is rotten within. Over the top of all this, I am a male and have absolutely no appreciation of female perceptions in sport so it is a mystery. I can only think if Doloras on here that might be able to provide a womin’s perspective on this
Wow, this is how the only Māori person on a jobsite must feel about being consulted on anything relating to Te Tiriti, spirituality or kaupapa :D
First off, I don't have a clue about elite sportswomen operate, only about social sportswomen. Secondly, the best I can do is that my male coaches have told me that women players need more socialising time, and more ego management. I wonder if that helps.
I once coached a womens football team. One of the ladies cried because I moved her from Right back to right mid for a game. That was the point I realised I am not ready for coaching
2 issues I think, one is the payment situation and that is probably no different to other sports, both men and women. Thinking netball and rugby where pay is reasonably low and working another job is not unusual. Basketball imports can be on similar money but have the ability to play up to 3 seasons in a year to offset that.
The other issue is the cultural/treatment one that she alludes to. That will be what it is but perhaps not too widespread given how well the team is going at the moment. Unusual for a disgruntled team to perform so far above expectations if it is rotten within. Over the top of all this, I am a male and have absolutely no appreciation of female perceptions in sport so it is a mystery. I can only think if Doloras on here that might be able to provide a womin’s perspective on this
I see Davidson posted on IG taking about a positive environment this morning indicating there are some difference in opinions across the squad (perhaps depending on who was around in previous years and who wasn't)
Probably a much tougher/ professional culture under Temple than the previous‘ bring a teddy bear’ setup under Nat. Not for everyone and if you don’t like it move on.
Maybe this is what Knott is talking about, she may get the same answer. Just get tougher (eye roll emoji) You need players to perform and if the club, coach loose players like Knott it is bad for everyone. I guess best team do both, pressure and teddy bears.
Speculation alert... Chloe had some kind of (informal?) role supporting some of the younger players, because of her background in psychology, see this: https://wellingtonphoenix.com/news/knott-helping-the-phoenix-deal-with-the-mental-health-challenges-of-their-maiden-season Maybe some of her feedback to the club is almost on behalf of others, as well as the specifics of her situation? A tougher, performance-oriented culture as distinct from a supportive development-focused one, might be part of this too?
I think the club does give them as much as they can, it’s unfortunate the tv revenues and ticket sales don’t earn more because the players defenitely deserve much more than they earn but where can the money come from? The ongoing problem…Ryan
Pretty shocking, you'd think as a foundation player, senior player in the team, and someone with a side hustle in the sports media that she'd be a player which is the most involved culture wise and also the most financially sound.
It's disappointing that she had to resort to such a drastic move because of culture and management, the team has always been very outwardly focused on culture and doing the right thing by it's people so for that to fail so publicly I hope it's a huge wake up call for them. Female footballers sacrifice so much to represent the club, the least the club can do is give them respect.
Pay might be out of their control, but team culture definitely is. People will earn less money if the work environment is good, but if the money is bad and the environment is bad then of course people are going to leave. If Chloe said this in isolation then that's one thing, maybe she just had a falling out with Temple or a disagreement on playing style or whatever, but with Whinhamm backing her up - well that shows it's culture not individual personalities.
Not necessarily at all, the Nix have been around for a lot of years now and overall I think it's fair to say that the culture that surrounds the team is overwhelmingly positive in regards to how players get treated. I can't think of too many negative blips.
Frankly one senior player making strange, vague comments about culture mean very little without actual info to back it up and a player who's still very young possibly backing her up on social media (but again, we have no context) means even less.
Especially considering the attitude of the imports this season. Heard nothing but overwhelming positivity from all of them (especially Rylee) so will be very interesting to see where this leads. Wonder if a major issue regarding our local players is being papered over.
I don't want to speculate on specifics, but Chloe's wording and background indicates this could be a mental health/wellbeing grievance. If so, I hope the club doesn't waste time in offering any support and remediation necessary to those who may need it.
The other positive stuff around ALW team pre season, was the club went out of their way to find an off field role for Lily Alfeld as she deals with her long term injury. They didn't have to do that.
In a pro environment where is there is true competition in every position and import players etc of course there is going to be a high level of stress and perceived grievances but that’s the reality of elite sports. Some people are cut out for it others not.
In a pro environment where is there is true competition in every position and import players etc of course there is going to be a high level of stress and perceived grievances but that’s the reality of elite sports. Some people are cut out for it others not.
except it's a pro environment without pro compensation.
If she was being paid enough for it to be her full time gig then maybe she could deal with higher expectations. There are times I've had shark days and wanted to walk out with my middle finger up, but then I remember my pay is decent.
Juggling this, another job, and a personal life is an insane ask.
I'm gutted she's gone. She has been one of my favs for the last 2.5 years and she has been fudgeing firing this year.
In a pro environment where is there is true competition in every position and import players etc of course there is going to be a high level of stress and perceived grievances but that’s the reality of elite sports. Some people are cut out for it others not.
I think she played in every game for the Nix. Went to the states at a young age and played competitive college soccer over there. Studied at the same time. She is 27 and found out that it is not worse the trouble and probably won't change and facing a burn out. This sounds like a very mature decision to me.
In a pro environment where is there is true competition in every position and import players etc of course there is going to be a high level of stress and perceived grievances but that’s the reality of elite sports. Some people are cut out for it others not.
I think she played in every game for the Nix. Went to the states at a young age and played competitive college soccer over there. Studied at the same time. She is 27 and found out that it is not worse the trouble and probably won't change and facing a burn out. This sounds like a very mature decision to me.
Her comments about the club not aligning with her values suggest more than that. If the clubs values are that bad,there would (will) be far more expressing concern
“A lot of time has been invested into our women’s programme, on and off the pitch, over the past six months to a point where we believe it is the best high-performance environment in the league. We’ve created an environment players want to be a part of,” a Phoenix spokesperson said.
“The wider club has also undertaken a lot of work on our culture and values this year and inaugural women’s captain Lily Alfeld has recently been appointed to lead this area in the future.
“And we are fighting for A-League women’s players to be paid better. The club will continue to push Australian Professional Leagues (APL) to increase the minimum wage and the salary cap, which are dramatically undervaluing our players.”
In a pro environment where is there is true competition in every position and import players etc of course there is going to be a high level of stress and perceived grievances but that’s the reality of elite sports. Some people are cut out for it others not.
What an absolute crock of shark. How exactly is it a "pro environment" as you say when she has to hold down a full time job to pay the bills?!
Can we get that confirmed? Full time in the off season, which has shrunk? Or full time plus the Nix, in season?
Also if it is full time because of an investment in Auckland property, that’s above what many salaries, perhaps even two income households can manage, let alone when you are also paying to live elsewhere.
We don’t know the exact details of her situation, but it sounds like there are probably at least two different issues here.
In a pro environment where is there is true competition in every position and import players etc of course there is going to be a high level of stress and perceived grievances but that’s the reality of elite sports. Some people are cut out for it others not.
What an absolute crock of shark. How exactly is it a "pro environment" as you say when she has to hold down a full time job to pay the bills?!
It’s a pro environment when you are paid to play the game mate. If you’ve got an Auckland mortgage then that’s your problem. It was always going to be a slow progression to build the wages up and she knew the pay rate before signing
But i do believe Knott has to explain her comments around values etc....you can't just throw that out and run away...thats weak asf. I'm sure she will speak eventually. But she wants to be careful because if she wants to play for the future Auckland side you don't want to come across as a troublesome/difficult player. Somewhat black listed already i'd say.
Reminder that the pay issue is league wide, not specific to the Nix. If pay was the only problem, surely we’d be seeing a lot more players quit mid contract. Cost of living a bit better in Aus of course but even so.
