Crowds - The thread of Australian whining

Probably would be a similar cost to re-building the whole stadium tbh. The stadium wasn't designed to have any alterations done to it, was just designed to be built on the cheap.

Tear down the stadium is my favoured option to be honest.

https://twitter.com/patrick478/status/521181534405...

I rest my case, nothing has changed in 7 months.

All class by Smithy, telling a fan to 'fuck off and go to the other aisles' because he wasn't chanting

Where does it say that people in the zone have to chant? 

Hay Patrick - everyone in aisle 23 was listening to the new chants trying to make out the words.

Give it time and I think they will pick them up.

If you heard chanting from 23 it was from the knobhead at the back trying to join in with your chants (still can't get the last line for Albert Reira  ["Cunningham, Brockie, Boyd Boxall and Fenton"]).

At least the kids aren't embarrassed anymore.

The so called 'in-crowd' ain't all so bad.

The poor home form doesn't help. I have no trouble admitting to being a bit of a 'sing when we're winning' fan, and I'm sure many others are the same. I prefer to sing when there's something to sing about. That's not deriding you guys that do sing whatever the score, fair play to you.

I thought the chants were great today and showed our support for the team. However I think the expectation that everyone should join in, whether in the YF Zone or elsewhere is unrealistic. Crowd atmosphere and involvement in singing seems to get a better response with city or team chants, rather than individual player chants. The game atmosphere should be set with these city/team chants, especially in the first 20 minutes of the game. Songs about individual players should be sung when the player does something of note, rather than sing-along-a-player rotation.

Sounded good in aisle 12 guys. I was left stranded on a couple of attempts...

Warwick Hunt - agree with what you say. Songs seem to just be sung for the sake of it sometimes - i.e. Singing about Brockie when he's been garbage for about 18 months has a bit of a cringe factor for me. And does anyone know why many of he chants sound like they are being sung in an English accent?!

Well the one about Roly certainly isn't!

Although it might be a United Kingdom accent

Too soon.

thought the feverzone was good tonight. More variety, as well as noise even when we weren't playing that great. 

Think the tweet was out of frustration at expecting way too much after a lot of effort was put in during preseason to lift the fever performance. Understandable. We just need to trust that the effort put in will pay off, and know that it won't happen dramatically overnight. 

If we can improve from tonight (which was already an improvement on last season) we will be in great shape by the end of the season. 

300 years is too soon?

Sorry Bobobalde but the fever zone was set up to be an active supporter zone and i really dont get why people get tickets there if they are either going to sit or stand like statues and not attempt to get involved.As for being exclusive you have to be joking the call went out for people to get involved a few decided to try and take a more active roll that dosnt make it exclusive.

Very disappointed with the size of the crowd yesterday.  No more excuses for Wellingtonians (like myself).  I'm embarrassed that we couldn't even get 8,000 to the opening game of a season on what was a glorious day.

After yesterday, I think the club is well within its rights to take as many games away from Wellington as it sees fit in order to try and make some money.

Feck me! One game into the season and all hell is breaking loose!

There were a couple of dumb comments made yesterday. One on Twitter and one, apparently, in the Zone at the game. Yeah, neither of those comments were helpful or did anything to encourage people to come into the Zone or to break down this perception that some people have that Yellow Fever is some sort of elitist boys’ club. As far as I can see, both of the people involved made those comments out of frustration, they were a knee jerk reaction after a lot of time and effort was put into creating the means for people to learn and join in with chanting and enhance the whole ‘Fever’ experience. The comments were stupid, to say the least, but both people involved have sucked it up and admitted that. They’re not Nazi war criminals, just a couple of frustrated people who care a lot about the team, the Club and the gameday experience.

I’ve heard a number of people saying that Yellow Fever is elitist. That isn’t my experience. At all. I live in Pukekohe. I know loads of people involved in YF at the sharp end, I go into the Zone when I fly down for games (and in the first couple of seasons I flew down for a lot of games), I chant. I involved myself. I never waited to be asked, or invited. If I don’t feel isolated from Yellow Fever and I live at the other end of the country, I genuinely don’t understand why people in Wellington can’t, or don’t, feel as invested in it as I am. That’s not a criticism of people who talk about YF being elitist, I’m just interested to know why people have this perception. Seriously. I’ve heard a few things bandied around, but nothing that’s convinced me that the ‘elitist’ tag is justified. I’m not having a go at how people feel, I’m just curious as to why they feel that way. I’m sure that the people in the Fever Zone would also be interested to find out why they are viewed this way.

At the end of the day, people should be free to support the team in whatever way they choose to, and that choice shouldn’t be criticised. I’m sure that the chanting and the atmosphere in the Zone will improve but it will take time. It’s not gonna be overnight. From what I’ve read, yesterday’s atmosphere in the Zone was the best it’s been for a while, so it’s getting there.

Bottom line is that everyone who forks out their cash is there for the same reason, to support the team. Being a Phoenix supporter is emotional enough without fighting and arguing amongst ourselves

I read what you say Bobobalde and firstly it puzzles me, but more importantly, it concerns me. 

It concerns me because perception IS reality. And if you, and others THINK that the Yellow Fever is elitist and a closed clique, then despite the people involved not intending and not wanting it to be, it will be. 

So we NEED to change those perceptions.

The Yellow Fever "in-crowd" couldn't be less elitist. Honestly. 

The call went out about 6 weeks ago for people to volunteer to contribute. In any way you can or want to. The people in the "in-crowd" are CONSTANTLY discussing how to get more people involved informally and formally. If you want to contribute, step up.

The door is WIDE open.

I was not involved in the core much at all until recently. I put my hand up and Smithy and Dale virtually grabbed me and dragged me in to be involved. Others have stepped up too, and are putting in hours of effort to broaden things and get more people involved. A lot of us have worked really hard over the last few weeks on a number of fronts, and we are gagging for more pairs of hands. If you care and you want to help, step up. Your input and passion will be warmly welcomed. And I think you'll see just how not-elitist this "in group" you speak of are. If you are reticient about introducing yourself come and talk to me. I'll break the ice for you.

I was walking to Bethel Woods from the Backbencher last night. Morale was low. Understandably. 

And it was commented, in a lamenting tone, that if a dozen or so central people moved away, say for work, things might implode. 

That's NOT how anyone at all wants it to be.

As Ballane notes above the Fever Zone was conceived and is actively promoted as an active supporters zone. It IS supposed to be where you stand not sit, and sing and chant not stand there quietly. People who stand in the zone to soak up the atmosphere and don't join in the chanting, and/or do not attempt to start chants really do annoy me and others.

You quote an example where people outside the zone during the football united tour yelled out. 

I think the criticism that the performance on that day was flat was a valid one. It was a shoddy disjointed shambles that day. 

However I think you are misinterpreting the response. Well, at least misinterpreting the intended message in the response. It absolutely is and was not:

"Only we can start chants". 

It is:

"For goodness sake… don't yell out and criticise that we are not doing a good job of starting chants… start a chant yourself if you don't think it's happening. We WILL join in... It's not up to us to always lead the chants!"

Patrick's tweet is again not an example of elitism, it is an example of frustration that people THINK it is elitist. It is frustration at people not joining in and chanting in the zone, and/or frustration that others are not starting chants. The desire from within the core group you describe is precisely that it NOT be us leading everything.

I spoke to Smithy last night about him having a go at the guy and telling him to fuck off to another aisle if he wasn't going to chant. He asked me if I recognised the guy to apologise to him for him. Smithy had had a few beers and said he would apologise himself, but he wasn't sure he would recognise him. He agrees that it was out of line. 

But, it does need to be said. Leeches stop others around them feeling comfortable joining in chants. If you are not going to join in the chants I strongly think you should move elsewhere. Everyone agrees things are better when the chanting is louder and more coordinated. That is very very difficult to achieve when people in the zone are not joining in. People are (generally) afraid of embarrassing themselves in New Zealand sports crowds. It is a function of our tall poppy syndrome. If you stand there not chanting the person next to you, who might be thinking of joining in is likely not to join in because you're not... Don't be a leech and suck the passion out of the zone.

Join in. Embrace it. Contribute.

Incredible Stamina. No Shame. Yellow Fever.

YF Governing / Policing supporters? They always have since the 2007 Sydney FC walk of shame. You can always sit under a banner stating "No in the Zone-Leave us alone".

Me personally I'm an away fan so being as loud as I can is what I do.

If the A-League is only as strong as its weakest link, then Wellington Phoenix are on notice. On an otherwise bumper opening weekend of the season, the familiar sight of rows of empty seats at the "Cake Tin" for Sunday's match against Perth Glory was a stark reminder of the challenges that lie ahead. Whether Wellington survive past 2016, when their license runs out, is no guarantee.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/wellington-phoe...

I'm shocked the TV deal is only worth 180,000

I'm thinking Bathurst probably didn't help to be fair. But yeah a fairly disappointing opening game crowd that is at the lower end of the range historically. 

I'm the first person to put my hand up and say that my tweet was stupid and I really shouldn't have tweeted that. Telling people to get out of the Zone if they aren't chanting goes against everything Fever stands for.

I just hope that everyone knows that I said what I said because I care. I care about this football team and I care about this supporters club. I sunk wasaaaaay too much time animating those change videos,  adding chants to the website, the Android app and learning enough iOS to be able to put them in there too. I got screwed over by Apple who didn't manage to review the update in time for the game yesterday. And at the game yesterday, I just got the feeling that very few people actually bothered to put some effort into learning the new chants.

I was really excited about the new, revitalised Fever Zone we were going to create yesterday, but me expectations of what we could achieve in one game were far too high. I accept that now, this is going to take longer than just one game.

Yes -  I offended some people with my tweet yesterday and I apologise for that, but my sentiment of "if you are in the Fever Zone, please please please please please get involved with chanting" stands.  I don't want anyone to leave the Fever Zone, I want it to keep growing to the point where you can't get a ticket in Aisle 22 on game day.

I'll keep working to help build the chanting up in the Zone, and it would be great if the entire Zone can buy into what the group who have been meeting over the off season  to discuss chants are trying to do. We'll all be back to watch our beloved Nix smash the Jets in two weeks time, and we'll give it another go.

edit: double post

And it was the last day of the school holidays - there were way less kids than usual there.

And there was an u19 tournament in Upper Hutt.

And there was an u16 tournament on Taupo...

None of which matters in the end. What the article says is true. Everyone knows it. Including David Dome. We needed to win yesterday, and the fact that we lost is likely to equate to 2,000 - 3,000 peopel who don't come to the Newcastle game. That hurts.

New chants sounded good from aisle 24. Couldn't make out some of the words to some of them but I just need to read up and learn them properly. Liking the tunes too, especially the Beatles ones. My partner and I tried to join in as much as we could where we were and people around us joined in with the ones they knew too. Looking forward to more chants taking off over the season.

Can we throw in the weather as an excuse aswell? 

It was too nice and people went to the beach instead of the football.

Posted a graph earlier in the thread that shows winning only affects crowds toward the end of the season. 

What you need to do in the first third is drive your membership - apparently they've done a better job of that this season.

During the second third of the season they need to drive the summer memberships (6 game tickets)

Then during the final third of the season you can really go after the 'casuals' if we're winning and push the "Phoenix contending for playoffs" (hopefully) line. 

Actually on the weather I must remember a hat next time it's like that! Even with sunglasses I was still using the program to shade my eyes for most of the game.

So, massive group hug in the Zone and surrounding aisles at the next home game? Oh well, I tried! ;-)

conga

Aren't congas a bit elitist? I mean, those leading it at the front controlling where everyone else goes as if they're better than them. 

WOW.

Ouch. Daylight flooded on the issue.

Any chance of posting cant read it through that link.Bloody SMH

I expect we'll get Midfielder's take on that SMH article before the morning's over........

If the A-League is only as strong as its weakest link, then Wellington Phoenix are on notice. On an otherwise bumper opening weekend of the season, the familiar sight of rows of empty seats at the "Cake Tin" for Sunday's match against Perth Glory was a stark reminder of the challenges that lie ahead. Whether Wellington survive past 2016, when their license runs out, is no guarantee.

As expansion moves up the agenda, and bidders from multiple Australian cities begin to jockey for attention, the inclusion of a New Zealand team in what is ostensibly an Australian competition is coming, once again, under laser-like scrutiny.

That every club bar Wellington has recently been given a 20-year license underlines the obvious. Football Federation Australia is continuing to hedge its bets on the Phoenix, and if there's enough substance from Australian-based bids when the league is expanded in 2017, then the Kiwis will be in the gun.

Ideally, there should always be a New Zealand team in the competition. Given that Auckland is by far the biggest population centre in Australasia outside the A-League, there's even a case for having two Kiwi sides - eventually. But that pre-supposes the case being presented by the Phoenix is compelling enough to sustain even one. Right now that's debatable, and the owners have two years to get it right.

Fundamentally, it's the economics that aren't stacking up. In broadcast dividends and travel subsidies, Football Federation Australia has given the Phoenix upwards of $15 million since they joined the league in 2007. In terms of gate takings away from home, subsidies from New Zealand Football and - critically - television rights fees, Wellington have brought very little to the table in return.

It's the Sky TV deal that particularly frustrates the FFA, and may ultimately influence Wellington's fate. While it is Sky executives and not the Phoenix owners who make the important decisions, somehow the club has to convince their broadcast "partners" to genuinely invest in the potential of the A-League, both in terms of programming and fees.

If you get out what you put in, then it's little wonder the average rating for a Wellington home game is a lamentable 15,000. Support programming for the A-League is non-existent. In a narrow sense, that might explain Sky's paltry offering for rights. Until a few weeks ago that was, incredibly, $100,000 per season. Under pressure from the FFA, they've recently bumped that up to around $180,000. By contrast, Sky pay around $16 million per season for the NRL. Football may not have conquered New Zealand, but there's no way it's that far behind.

And then there's the home crowds. It's eight seasons since the Phoenix rose from the ashes of Auckland-based New Zealand Knights and ensured professional football survived on the other side of the Tasman. In the first few seasons, under the ownership of flamboyant property developer Terry Serepisos, they were the hottest ticket in town. In 2009-10 they reached the play-offs, pulling the third-highest crowds in the competition (11,574) and - memorably - almost 33,000 fans for a home final against Newcastle Jets.

That season, however, proved to be the high watermark for a club that has since changed ownership, and lost its box office appeal. While the Welnix consortium has focused on building stronger foundations - worthy in itself - the public has switched off in droves.

In the last four seasons, only now-defunct Gold Coast United and North Queensland Fury have had less spectators. For the last two seasons, Wellington have been bottom of the crowd table. The Phoenix need to reconnect with their support base, and fast.

The sad part of all this is that club is doing many things right. Investing in training facilities and academy programs are important long-term projects. And Ernie Merrick, as we saw against the Glory, has managed to assemble a competitive team.

The trouble for the Phoenix is that they have to do more than everyone else to justify their place in the A-League. That's the price they pay for being a Kiwi team in an Australian competition. It's a price they, and New Zealand football in general, have to be willing to pay.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/wellington-phoenix/the-price-wellington-phoenix-pays-as-a-kiwi-team-20141012-114zjb.html#ixzz3FyGo6Hg5

Still easier than putting any effort , whatsoever in the ASBP ....

yawn

Just in regards to growing crowds..Do you think the club could give us access to the number of fever zone tickets that still remain leading up to each game? This wil give us a chance to spread the word, sell the fever experience and attempt to build the zone. 

I see the cove bays do there updates in Sydney, and yes I know the number of tickets we have left will be in the 100's rather then 30/40 but at least it will create a sense of demand. 

ASBP? Auckland Sity Bitching Programme?

Posted this in the app thread, but it is probably more appropriate in here:

Pointed a couple of people who were unsure about the chants toward the app yesterday. One was on apple though, so that was unfortunate. But hopefully the update will be approved in time for the next game in 2 weeks.

Shows how much of a good idea it is to have chants on the app.

I suggest anyone who is in the feverzone who is next to someone looking unsure about chants, or not chanting to do the same. Encourage them to download the app, and help them to get their confidence up to chant by joining in with them etc.