attack looked pretty bleak, really only set pieces at this point seem to hold any danger, the 1st goal was totally on the keeper though, and maybe Riley for gettting in her way.
second was just poor defensively again, lovely cross and a decent tap in. But the build up to that goal, noone from the midfield made a tackle, let the Nigerians move the ball whereever they wanted and left the runner down the wing to charge on Foster with no support. Hassett's injury is a concern, hopefully it's just a winding and she's ok. caught Riley smiling at the 72nd minute, like she's havign a laugh with the sideline crew before taking a throw - I don't mid her as a player - as a leader I have to question her ability to actually lead and fire get the team fired up. Klimkova too doesn't strike me as a strong leader - maybe the gentler style is what the women respoind too? But, for mine, laughing and joking isn't something you shouldn't really be doing when your 2-0 down and being dominated. Short corners when we have no real strength in the attacking part of the field make no sense, we need to keep utilising Foster's accuracy and skill at set pieces - they seem to be our only way of scoring. 3rd and final nail in the coffin was ugly, again ball lost in the middle of the park from some really below average pasing by our women, just hit and hope, lose the ball catch your defense out and then let the opposition striker have two or three hits at goal. Not great overall and hope they get their shark sorted.
It was poor but to be blunt, we just don't have skills. Some of the blame has to go back on the players. Early in the second half, Ali Riley pumped a long ball upfield where we instantly lost possession when she could have made an easy pass to Grace Jale who was unmarked in heaps of space on the wing. It was just a dumb decision unless she has been given orders by the coach to always send it long.
Players clearly don't know their role, or understand the system they are playing which comes down to the coach. I have been calling for her head for 18 months - and have seen no signs of improvement to make me think I am wrong.
This has to be the best resourced womens team we have ever had, they have played a huge amount of games togetehr and still lack cohesion.
NZF screwed up by offering a contract for 6 years, but the coach has shown a lack of class or care for her team by not walking away. She clearly isn't the right person to lead them, and if she was putting the team first, she'd accept this and go.
I think it's too late to sack Klimkova now. Though if she walked doubt anyone would be upset.
As per a recent Tony Smith article she needs help. A Wayne Smith hugely respected type football person coming in alongside her. Male or Female. It's all so rotten now, it's needs to all be shaken up, and fast.
I know English is her 2nd language, but listening to her speak is always meh & muddled.
Jitka Klimková reflects on a disappointing result for the Ford Football Ferns against Nigeria. pic.twitter.com/vKxtVlqYaU
I think it's too late to sack Klimkova now. Though if she walked doubt anyone would be upset.
As per a recent Tony Smith article she needs help. A Wayne Smith hugely respected type football person coming in alongside her. Male or Female. It's all so rotten now, it's needs to all be shaken up, and fast.
I know English is her 2nd language, but listening to her speak is always meh & muddled.
Jitka Klimková reflects on a disappointing result for the Ford Football Ferns against Nigeria. pic.twitter.com/vKxtVlqYaU
Yeah this is an absolute mess. This team isn't going to win anything at the world cup. Even the Phillipines might be too much for them, at least they have a decent coach to make up for the skill deficit.
I genuinely can't believe that with the performances from some of the senior players and their atrocious body language none of them have been dropped. Yes we may not have better alternatives in those positions but at least send a bloody message! I'll take someone who actually seems to care about representing their country over whatever this lot are doing any day.
There should be some pride in wearing the fern, this lot seem to just think it's a paid holiday. Unacceptable. I don't care that we lose, its how we lose that matters.
Just doing a little scribble down of our record under Jitka. How are we ranked 25th in the world!?! Played 23 Won 3 Drawn 4 Lost 16 GF 11 GA 47
Yeah I get a few of those games were against the USA - I don't expect miracles against that lot... But jesus christ, she came out and said we'll beat Portugal before a ball had been kicked and we got spanked 5-0, then looked plain ordinary against Argentina, and now tipped over by Nigeria.
I am fearful for this World Cup, it feels like we're on the verge of embarrassment...
For half an hour, I was thinking we were clearly the better team, Nigeria had problems holding the ball and I felt sure we would win.
But to win, you have to score, and we were quite frankly pathetic in that regard. There is no chance of lightning striking twice and Wilkinson getting another goal, and she cant even stand on her left foot. I would have subbed her off at half time and stuck Jale up front. Clegg stuffed up the one chance we had where we should have at least got a consolation goal. At least she will get better with opportunities.
Once Nigeria scored (and the goalie should have done better I think ) they improved leaps and bounds. They probably knew there was no chance New Zealand would score one.
Rennie had the best game Ive seen her play, and got subbed. Its probably not her position tbh, but she made a decent fist of it.
But then we got Satchell again, goodness me
I agree with what someone said about Riley, Im not a huge fan of her attitude.
Where do we go from here. I actually dont know, I cant see us scoring.
This interview is highly concerning. Being “gritty” isn’t a football tactic and won’t win you many games, it’s a personality trait that does help if you have it but if you relay on that then you have no hope, or they had clear tactics in place but were not gritty enough and that’s more concerning because it’s a sign the team gives up easily.. oh dear Feverish
coochiee
I think it's too late to sack Klimkova now. Though if she walked doubt anyone would be upset.
As per a recent Tony Smith article she needs help. A Wayne Smith hugely respected type football person coming in alongside her. Male or Female. It's all so rotten now, it's needs to all be shaken up, and fast.
I know English is her 2nd language, but listening to her speak is always meh & muddled.
Jitka Klimková reflects on a disappointing result for the Ford Football Ferns against Nigeria. pic.twitter.com/vKxtVlqYaU
Get this world cup out of the way then hopefully the old guard will finally hang up their boots. Rid of all the management and start again as it's been an utter shambles for a while now. Jitka is clueless and has shown no signs of improvement since she came in. Going by the girls social media these tours are just social holidays catching up with friends.. laxing out in the pool/cafes. Get professional and show you are there for the right reasons! Give some national league girls a proper go. Yes people say they may not be good enough or no better than what is already on show but there's only one way to find out. Clegg and Foster came from national league and they were imo not stand out players yet are showing they are capable of making the step up. It may not work but at least it would give a kick up the jacksy to all these girls who have been picked time and time again regardless of form. Something needs to change and fast.
Get this world cup out of the way then hopefully the old guard will finally hang up their boots. Rid of all the management and start again as it's been an utter shambles for a while now. Jitka is clueless and has shown no signs of improvement since she came in. Going by the girls social media these tours are just social holidays catching up with friends.. laxing out in the pool/cafes. Get professional and show you are there for the right reasons! Give some national league girls a proper go. Yes people say they may not be good enough or no better than what is already on show but there's only one way to find out. Clegg and Foster came from national league and they were imo not stand out players yet are showing they are capable of making the step up. It may not work but at least it would give a kick up the jacksy to all these girls who have been picked time and time again regardless of form. Something needs to change and fast.
The lack of professionalism is an absolute killer for me. I dunno, If I fudgeed up at my job constantly I'd probably think twice about posting stuff on socal media and giving interviews that made it look like I wasn't fussed.
Accountability is key and for far too long this teams gotten away with this sort of stuff because frankly there hasn't been enough interest in womens football to warrant criticism. Well the tide is changing, the women's game is getting bigger and better each year and we're about to host the biggest women's tournament of all, now people start to care. Time for the team to act like they do too.
Riley and her happy go lucky act can get to fudge.
Riley is not our number 1 right back..Neville is. Jitka won't sort out because Riley sorted her out. Typical NZF shambles.
NZF acted years ago and got Heraf out because a couple of the old guard got upset when they got dropped. Absolute player power " no one upsets our family"...girls cant travel and be with their girlfriends anymore! fact.
some of us at the time said it would come back to bite us in the bum. Proof has been in the pudding.
NZF are an absolute embarrassment. I actually don't blame some of the players because in fairness i think the effort is there and they just arent good enough at this level. BUT the least we can do is get a coach in with some professionalism and some new ideas and provide some kind of hope n spark.
I don't buy in thats its too late. Get a Leon Birnie or Sam Wilkinson in there now and change it up.
Jiktka has already come out and said she wants to win a game at the world cup...ie. beat the phillipines to become NZs most successful coach at a world cup. You watch Pragnell come out and blow it up if it happens!!..to justify his 6 year deal for her. you could write the script now.
Yes be good to see the football journos ringing up Pragnell for his views on the current unacceptable results. Are NZF considering bringing some outside help? Surely they must see the alarm bells of an impeding Ferns failure, and damage that could do to the sport. Gotta change it up.
The Black Ferns quick turnaround is now a glaring example, of a national body getting it right just in time for a home Women's World Cup - and the feel good factor that it brought.
Yes be good to see the football journos ringing up Pragnell for his views on the current unacceptable results. Are NZF considering bringing some outside help? Surely they must see the alarm bells of an impeding Ferns failure, and damage that could do to the sport. Gotta change it up.
The Black Ferns quick turnaround is now a glaring example, of a national body getting it right just in time for a home Women's World Cup - and the feel good factor that it brought.
Sure, but there were only 12 Rugby teams and they only played the tournament in two centres. Then there were plenty of free tickets to get the crowd numbers up. Also, NZ would have been the only country where it made the news. We won the Rugby World Cup and it was World famous only in NZ.
Its easy to win a World Cup when there are only a handful of countries, if that, interested. Aussie had a number of 7s players who chose to play League rather than bother with the so called Rugby World Cup.
Our Womens Football team is sharke but you have to compare apples with apples.
Of course the Womens Rugby Cup only had 3 teams I understand of professional players - NZ, England & France. Running around beating up on students, office workers, stay at home mums and the like.
I mean more, NZR managed a fast turnaround from Black Ferns losing heavily to both England & France in late 2021, and looking miles off the pace, with apparently a bit of a toxic playing/coaching environment - to beating both those teams a few months later. They recognised the issues, and made some smart appointments to try fix it. That's the comparison heading into a home WC very very soon.
Of course the Womens Rugby Cup only had 3 teams I understand of professional players - NZ, England & France. Running around beating up on students, office workers, stay at home mums and the like.
I mean more, NZR managed a fast turnaround from Black Ferns losing heavily to both England & France in late 2021, and looking miles off the pace, with apparently a bit of a toxic playing/coaching environment - to beating both those teams a few months later. They recognised the issues, and made some smart appointments to try fix it. That's the comparison heading into a home WC very very soon.
Hate to say it but it was only due to a red card that we achieved that result. We would have likely got smashed by England otherwise.
The thing is NZR is soo much more professional and organised the NZF. We have been a shambles forever. Think how much better both the men's and women's game would be if they were running the show.
Riley is not our number 1 right back..Neville is. Jitka won't sort out because Riley sorted her out. Typical NZF shambles.
NZF acted years ago and got Heraf out because a couple of the old guard got upset when they got dropped. Absolute player power " no one upsets our family"...girls cant travel and be with their girlfriends anymore! fact.
some of us at the time said it would come back to bite us in the bum. Proof has been in the pudding.
NZF are an absolute embarrassment. I actually don't blame some of the players because in fairness i think the effort is there and they just arent good enough at this level. BUT the least we can do is get a coach in with some professionalism and some new ideas and provide some kind of hope n spark.
I don't buy in thats its too late. Get a Leon Birnie or Sam Wilkinson in there now and change it up.
Jiktka has already come out and said she wants to win a game at the world cup...ie. beat the phillipines to become NZs most successful coach at a world cup. You watch Pragnell come out and blow it up if it happens!!..to justify his 6 year deal for her. you could write the script now.
Seriously had enough.
I can back up your comments about the "old guard" of players having too much power. I was told in late 2021 by a parent of a young player brought into her first Ferns camp that the experience put her off ever wanting to play for NZ again. The senior players were very unfriendly and seemed mostly interested in protecting their own postion in the squad. That was a player named in Klimkova's first squad back in October 2021 to face Canada. I don't know if things have improved regarding welcoming new players into the squad since then - maybe they have. I also heard from the mother of an older Ferns player, a striker, when the Ferns played in Christchurch against Korea last year, that her daughter didn't always find Klimkova's coaching methods all that satisfying as a striker - Klimkova was always shouting "defend!, defend!, defend!" at the strikers which her daughter thought somewhat inhibited her attacking impulses.
Riley is not our number 1 right back..Neville is. Jitka won't sort out because Riley sorted her out. Typical NZF shambles.
NZF acted years ago and got Heraf out because a couple of the old guard got upset when they got dropped. Absolute player power " no one upsets our family"...girls cant travel and be with their girlfriends anymore! fact.
some of us at the time said it would come back to bite us in the bum. Proof has been in the pudding.
NZF are an absolute embarrassment. I actually don't blame some of the players because in fairness i think the effort is there and they just arent good enough at this level. BUT the least we can do is get a coach in with some professionalism and some new ideas and provide some kind of hope n spark.
I don't buy in thats its too late. Get a Leon Birnie or Sam Wilkinson in there now and change it up.
Jiktka has already come out and said she wants to win a game at the world cup...ie. beat the phillipines to become NZs most successful coach at a world cup. You watch Pragnell come out and blow it up if it happens!!..to justify his 6 year deal for her. you could write the script now.
Seriously had enough.
I can back up your comments about the "old guard" of players having too much power. I was told in late 2021 by a parent of a young player brought into her first Ferns camp that the experience put her off ever wanting to play for NZ again. The senior players were very unfriendly and seemed mostly interested in protecting their own postion in the squad. That was a player named in Klimkova's first squad back in October 2021 to face Canada. I don't know if things have improved regarding welcoming new players into the squad since then - maybe they have. I also heard from the mother of an older Ferns player, a striker, when the Ferns played in Christchurch against Korea last year, that her daughter didn't always find Klimkova's coaching methods all that satisfying as a striker - Klimkova was always shouting "defend!, defend!, defend!" at the strikers which her daughter thought somewhat inhibited her attacking impulses.
Well that's just glaringly poor stuff. No wonder we can't string any type of performances together - We're not only battling the opposition, but it seems we're battling ourselves...
All the classic signs of a slow moving trainwreck this is.
Of course the Womens Rugby Cup only had 3 teams I understand of professional players - NZ, England & France. Running around beating up on students, office workers, stay at home mums and the like.
I mean more, NZR managed a fast turnaround from Black Ferns losing heavily to both England & France in late 2021, and looking miles off the pace, with apparently a bit of a toxic playing/coaching environment - to beating both those teams a few months later. They recognised the issues, and made some smart appointments to try fix it. That's the comparison heading into a home WC very very soon.
Hate to say it but it was only due to a red card that we achieved that result. We would have likely got smashed by England otherwise.
The thing is NZR is soo much more professional and organised the NZF. We have been a shambles forever. Think how much better both the men's and women's game would be if they were running the show.
NZR IMO is a shambles, nothing professional about them. I have mentioned before that club Rugby is dying, Ranfurly Shield Fever is dead as is the NPC. Twenty years ago, stadiums were full for NPC games and last year's Waikato v Auckland game attracted a few hundred. Compare the number of Rugby Club teams with Football Club teams and you will see that Football is 4 to 5 times larger in terms of participation.
NZF is very disappointing. With basic issues such as recruitment, I doubt whether they seek any HR expertise given the many cocks that have been made on this front.
Of course the Womens Rugby Cup only had 3 teams I understand of professional players - NZ, England & France. Running around beating up on students, office workers, stay at home mums and the like.
I mean more, NZR managed a fast turnaround from Black Ferns losing heavily to both England & France in late 2021, and looking miles off the pace, with apparently a bit of a toxic playing/coaching environment - to beating both those teams a few months later. They recognised the issues, and made some smart appointments to try fix it. That's the comparison heading into a home WC very very soon.
Hate to say it but it was only due to a red card that we achieved that result. We would have likely got smashed by England otherwise.
The thing is NZR is soo much more professional and organised the NZF. We have been a shambles forever. Think how much better both the men's and women's game would be if they were running the show.
NZR IMO is a shambles, nothing professional about them. I have mentioned before that club Rugby is dying, Ranfurly Shield Fever is dead as is the NPC. Twenty years ago, stadiums were full for NPC games and last year's Waikato v Auckland game attracted a few hundred. Compare the number of Rugby Club teams with Football Club teams and you will see that Football is 4 to 5 times larger in terms of participation.
NZF is very disappointing. With basic issues such as recruitment, I doubt whether they seek any HR expertise given the many cocks that have been made on this front.
Yes very true at that grass roots, NPC level. But they have also got a lot right in the last 20 odd years at the elite, ABs level especially. NZ has a smaller rugby playing base than England, France & South Africa. And until the Silver Lake deal alot less cash than RFU England for sure.
Yet since rugby went professional the ABs have had a truly excellent 80% plus winning record. The rugby pyramid of schoolboy-club/NPC/age group-Super Rugby-ABs works very very well to make sure talented players are tracked closely, with not many falling through the cracks. It's a very centralised pathway managed by NZR that produces a stream of high class skilled players, plus importantly a big number of high class coaches. Note how NZers coach many of the world's international teams. Yes it's a tiny pond World Rugby compared to football, but the number of Kiwis coaching at a high level is still impressive. There is alot NZR got very right in the Steve Tew era.
Big Pete's comments above are interesting. A mate who works for Olympics NZ, had some less than flattering comments about dealing with the Ferns, them having overinflated opinions of themselves considering they only had to bully OFC teams to make an Olympiad.
At the risk of going overboard on the rugby analogies, in 2004 the first year Henry, Hansen & Smith took over the ABs - they viewed about halfway through the season an unprofessional, heavy drinking environment and it all came to a head when they got thrashed by the Boks in Sth Africa. Had an inhouse meeting with some senior players, incl a young Richie McCaw (captain in waiting). Went for a no dick head selfish culture (so basically end of careers of guys like Spencer, Justin Marshall etc), and adopted a team first ethos with senior players sweeping out the changing rooms after training etc. Young players encouraged to speak up in meetings etc. No one bigger than the team
It takes courage for any coaching setup to come into a long established international team, shake it up and make sweeping changes with a view they benefit in the longer term. But the best coaches often have that courage. Certainly likely why NZR plumped for Smith with the Black Ferns, as he'd sort of been there done that with the ABs.
I don't agree with everyting SN scribbles at all, but his view that an unconfident Klimkova is under the spell of Riley & others of the old guard may not be far from the truth.
I’m really impressed with Stott, both games she was a level above in terms of her technical skills and reading of the game. Esson made some great saves - will be disappointed she didn’t stop that first Nigerian goal. Hand looks like a better player than Rennie, and makes great runs. Having said that the last game was probably Rennies best. I don’t think Clegg should start, but is Jale a better option up top with Hand? Are we better to try 4231 and have an extra player in midfield to win and keep possession better? Or maybe play Stott and Chance in centre mid- as that is where we have the least depth. Lots of options at centre back- Bunge can come in there for Stott to push into midfield. We put lots of aerial balls into the box. But Wilkinson is outnumbered often and the crosses are loopy or too far out from the goal for her to head in. Would be more likely to score if we can get to the goal line and cut the ball back or whip it across the goal for a back post tap in. How often did the fullbacks get forward and overlap the wingers and create overloads in wide areas? We have the players that can do that. We also didn’t see much combination play and wall passes/ 1-2s from the forwards to each other in or around the box to get past players. And who in our team takes on and runs at defenders around the goal box? Only Liv Chance does that with any regularity. In the attacking third that is where the players should have free reign to try their luck and force the defenders to tackle them and win a free kick or penalty. Too often we give away free kicks from needless pushes or fouls that we had no chance of winning in the air but could force a mistake if we could let the play continue and keep our discipline. We need to be winning free kicks in the attacking third, not giving them away and relieving pressure. For me in our last match this could pay dividends- assuming Riley has to play as she is captain and others are fit, and Foster is on the field too as she could score long range goals and shoot with booth feet- 4231 Jale Foster Chance Hand Stott Percival Riley Bowen Bunge Bott Esson
Of course the Womens Rugby Cup only had 3 teams I understand of professional players - NZ, England & France. Running around beating up on students, office workers, stay at home mums and the like.
I mean more, NZR managed a fast turnaround from Black Ferns losing heavily to both England & France in late 2021, and looking miles off the pace, with apparently a bit of a toxic playing/coaching environment - to beating both those teams a few months later. They recognised the issues, and made some smart appointments to try fix it. That's the comparison heading into a home WC very very soon.
Hate to say it but it was only due to a red card that we achieved that result. We would have likely got smashed by England otherwise.
The thing is NZR is soo much more professional and organised the NZF. We have been a shambles forever. Think how much better both the men's and women's game would be if they were running the show.
NZR IMO is a shambles, nothing professional about them. I have mentioned before that club Rugby is dying, Ranfurly Shield Fever is dead as is the NPC. Twenty years ago, stadiums were full for NPC games and last year's Waikato v Auckland game attracted a few hundred. Compare the number of Rugby Club teams with Football Club teams and you will see that Football is 4 to 5 times larger in terms of participation.
NZF is very disappointing. With basic issues such as recruitment, I doubt whether they seek any HR expertise given the many cocks that have been made on this front.
Yes very true at that grass roots, NPC level. But they have also got a lot right in the last 20 odd years at the elite, ABs level especially. NZ has a smaller rugby playing base than England, France & South Africa. And until the Silver Lake deal alot less cash than RFU England for sure.
Yet since rugby went professional the ABs have had a truly excellent 80% plus winning record. The rugby pyramid of schoolboy-club/NPC/age group-Super Rugby-ABs works very very well to make sure talented players are tracked closely, with not many falling through the cracks. It's a very centralised pathway managed by NZR that produces a stream of high class skilled players, plus importantly a big number of high class coaches. Note how NZers coach many of the world's international teams. Yes it's a tiny pond World Rugby compared to football, but the number of Kiwis coaching at a high level is still impressive. There is alot NZR got very right in the Steve Tew era.
Big Pete's comments above are interesting. A mate who works for Olympics NZ, had some less than flattering comments about dealing with the Ferns, them having overinflated opinions of themselves considering they only had to bully OFC teams to make an Olympiad.
At the risk of going overboard on the rugby analogies, in 2004 the first year Henry, Hansen & Smith took over the ABs - they viewed about halfway through the season an unprofessional, heavy drinking environment and it all came to a head when they got thrashed by the Boks in Sth Africa. Had an inhouse meeting with some senior players, incl a young Richie McCaw (captain in waiting). Went for a no dick head selfish culture (so basically end of careers of guys like Spencer, Justin Marshall etc), and adopted a team first ethos with senior players sweeping out the changing rooms after training etc. Young players encouraged to speak up in meetings etc. No one bigger than the team
It takes courage for any coaching setup to come into a long established international team, shake it up and make sweeping changes with a view they benefit in the longer term. But the best coaches often have that courage. Certainly likely why NZR plumped for Smith with the Black Ferns, as he'd sort of been there done that with the ABs.
I don't agree with everyting SN scribbles at all, but his view that an unconfident Klimkova is under the spell of Riley & others of the old guard may not be far from the truth.
NZ Rugby's problems start from the bottom up. If the foundations are not right then the game will crumble from the top. Where are all of the talented young players bursting onto the scene such as we had twenty odd years ago?
We have colleges who cannot field a team. You may have read the article a couple of years ago regarding Nae Nae college who only had 4 boys wanting to play Rugby. The 4 players joined up with Hutt Valley High which has a roll of 2k and they could only muster 3 teams.
The All Blacks recent form is not great. They lost to Ireland for the first time a few years ago and got dicked last season by Ireland at home. Ireland has less players than Taranaki Rugby, it is a very, very minor sport in Ireland.
Rugby in Aussie is about their 5th or 6th largest sport so no one really cares a toss. NZ Rugby also have a history of churning out bullshark. They claimed that 4 Billion viewers would watch the 2011 World Cup and also claimed that it was the World's third biggest sports Tournament.
Sure, NZ Football have been poor for decades but the comparison with NZ Rugby does not stack up IMO.
Of course the Womens Rugby Cup only had 3 teams I understand of professional players - NZ, England & France. Running around beating up on students, office workers, stay at home mums and the like.
I mean more, NZR managed a fast turnaround from Black Ferns losing heavily to both England & France in late 2021, and looking miles off the pace, with apparently a bit of a toxic playing/coaching environment - to beating both those teams a few months later. They recognised the issues, and made some smart appointments to try fix it. That's the comparison heading into a home WC very very soon.
Hate to say it but it was only due to a red card that we achieved that result. We would have likely got smashed by England otherwise.
The thing is NZR is soo much more professional and organised the NZF. We have been a shambles forever. Think how much better both the men's and women's game would be if they were running the show.
NZR IMO is a shambles, nothing professional about them. I have mentioned before that club Rugby is dying, Ranfurly Shield Fever is dead as is the NPC. Twenty years ago, stadiums were full for NPC games and last year's Waikato v Auckland game attracted a few hundred. Compare the number of Rugby Club teams with Football Club teams and you will see that Football is 4 to 5 times larger in terms of participation.
NZF is very disappointing. With basic issues such as recruitment, I doubt whether they seek any HR expertise given the many cocks that have been made on this front.
Yes very true at that grass roots, NPC level. But they have also got a lot right in the last 20 odd years at the elite, ABs level especially. NZ has a smaller rugby playing base than England, France & South Africa. And until the Silver Lake deal alot less cash than RFU England for sure.
Yet since rugby went professional the ABs have had a truly excellent 80% plus winning record. The rugby pyramid of schoolboy-club/NPC/age group-Super Rugby-ABs works very very well to make sure talented players are tracked closely, with not many falling through the cracks. It's a very centralised pathway managed by NZR that produces a stream of high class skilled players, plus importantly a big number of high class coaches. Note how NZers coach many of the world's international teams. Yes it's a tiny pond World Rugby compared to football, but the number of Kiwis coaching at a high level is still impressive. There is alot NZR got very right in the Steve Tew era.
Big Pete's comments above are interesting. A mate who works for Olympics NZ, had some less than flattering comments about dealing with the Ferns, them having overinflated opinions of themselves considering they only had to bully OFC teams to make an Olympiad.
At the risk of going overboard on the rugby analogies, in 2004 the first year Henry, Hansen & Smith took over the ABs - they viewed about halfway through the season an unprofessional, heavy drinking environment and it all came to a head when they got thrashed by the Boks in Sth Africa. Had an inhouse meeting with some senior players, incl a young Richie McCaw (captain in waiting). Went for a no dick head selfish culture (so basically end of careers of guys like Spencer, Justin Marshall etc), and adopted a team first ethos with senior players sweeping out the changing rooms after training etc. Young players encouraged to speak up in meetings etc. No one bigger than the team
It takes courage for any coaching setup to come into a long established international team, shake it up and make sweeping changes with a view they benefit in the longer term. But the best coaches often have that courage. Certainly likely why NZR plumped for Smith with the Black Ferns, as he'd sort of been there done that with the ABs.
I don't agree with everyting SN scribbles at all, but his view that an unconfident Klimkova is under the spell of Riley & others of the old guard may not be far from the truth.
NZ Rugby's problems start from the bottom up. If the foundations are not right then the game will crumble from the top. Where are all of the talented young players bursting onto the scene such as we had twenty odd years ago?
We have colleges who cannot field a team. You may have read the article a couple of years ago regarding Nae Nae college who only had 4 boys wanting to play Rugby. The 4 players joined up with Hutt Valley High which has a roll of 2k and they could only muster 3 teams.
The All Blacks recent form is not great. They lost to Ireland for the first time a few years ago and got dicked last season by Ireland at home. Ireland has less players than Taranaki Rugby, it is a very, very minor sport in Ireland.
Rugby in Aussie is about their 5th or 6th largest sport so no one really cares a toss. NZ Rugby also have a history of churning out bullshark. They claimed that 4 Billion viewers would watch the 2011 World Cup and also claimed that it was the World's third biggest sports Tournament.
Sure, NZ Football have been poor for decades but the comparison with NZ Rugby does not stack up IMO.
Sure rugby is 2nd now to football in Auckland and Wellington but it’s still the number 1 code everywhere else in NZ. If not always participation wise then certainly profile wise. Don’t forget the average adult will retire from rugby much earlier than football due to its pure high collision nature. I played rugby into my mid twenties (plus a lot of medium distance running) and had hip resurfacing surgery done early at age 48. There are far more Masters leagues in the round ball code.
But those guys who stopped playing rugby at school still strongly follow it. The talent is still coming through, it will just year upon year have an every increasing Polynesian look to it’s elite playing base. Sort of head in a NFL direction where most kids stop playing at school, and increasingly only those looking to be pro players continue playing. I wouldn’t rule out an upset ABs win at the World Cup this year
Rugby in Ireland is yipe behind football, hurling and Gaelic football but it has a strong following. They pack out the 60,000 Avía Stadium for Irish internationals. It’s the one code that has a unified Ireland team. They have actually adopted a bit of a centralised NZ model with their 4 provinces, and yes certainly now bounce above their weight off a smallest player base.
But in summary I’d agrue NZ Rugby have got alot (though far from everything) right in that elite player space, with a very effective clear pyramid pathway. But yes they have definitely dropped the ball re the amateur/club/NPC base and player numbers will continue to fall. Though I’m not sure it will hurt the ABs/Super Rugby much, as most of that fall out will be skinny Pakeha kids who were never going to be Richie McCaw anyways. It will go more like the NFL
Can NZF learn much from NZ Rugby? Probably not. How likes of Croatia, Uruguay & Iceland pull above their football weights maybe of more relevance. Or if we are talking the Women’s game, Canada which has become a powerhouse of recent times
I don't want to be the one stirring poop but the question should be asked. Should NZF fire Jitka and just bring in a big name to take the team to the WC? Of course many of the best coaches are already going to the WC, but there is bound to be one or two unattached ones who would jump at the opportunity.
I haven't followed the Ferns as well as I used to but the results speak for themselves. The players and what they are, there is no changing that. But perhaps brining in a better coach for the tournament might help. Just a suggestion and keen to hear people's thoughts.
a kiwi for a kiwi world cup - someone relatable! I've said before someone like Leon Birnie (great team culture at world cups and some decent results) or a Sam Wilkinson who from all reports is an intelligent/detailed up incoming coach and suites to both men's and women's game. I would bring someone like Maia Jackman into the support staff and get rid of Klimkovas extended mob. Jackman may even be able to get Abby back who knows but it wont be under Riley and Klimkova.
Don't let Riley chose the next coach and don't act on everything in an independent report. Use some common sense. And who ever comes in give them a 2-3 year contract.
Pragnells completely and utterly shaaaarked the whole thing with the 6 year deal to please the wrong people. Clear and obvious he cannot pay her out!! A CEO in hiding. Maybe we can do a whip around and see how much we can come up with?
I don't want to be the one stirring poop but the question should be asked. Should NZF fire Jitka and just bring in a big name to take the team to the WC? Of course many of the best coaches are already going to the WC, but there is bound to be one or two unattached ones who would jump at the opportunity.
I haven't followed the Ferns as well as I used to but the results speak for themselves. The players and what they are, there is no changing that. But perhaps brining in a better coach for the tournament might help. Just a suggestion and keen to hear people's thoughts.
Well,they would certainly have something to work with ,with this extended camp coming up. Mind you,the squad will have been selected by then. Time for a Pritchard call up,lol!
Sounds like they need Anthony Hudson when he didn’t select Mossy, Brockie and one other… Remember listening to it on the Between two Beers podcast with Brockie.
Of course the Womens Rugby Cup only had 3 teams I understand of professional players - NZ, England & France. Running around beating up on students, office workers, stay at home mums and the like.
I mean more, NZR managed a fast turnaround from Black Ferns losing heavily to both England & France in late 2021, and looking miles off the pace, with apparently a bit of a toxic playing/coaching environment - to beating both those teams a few months later. They recognised the issues, and made some smart appointments to try fix it. That's the comparison heading into a home WC very very soon.
Hate to say it but it was only due to a red card that we achieved that result. We would have likely got smashed by England otherwise.
The thing is NZR is soo much more professional and organised the NZF. We have been a shambles forever. Think how much better both the men's and women's game would be if they were running the show.
NZR IMO is a shambles, nothing professional about them. I have mentioned before that club Rugby is dying, Ranfurly Shield Fever is dead as is the NPC. Twenty years ago, stadiums were full for NPC games and last year's Waikato v Auckland game attracted a few hundred. Compare the number of Rugby Club teams with Football Club teams and you will see that Football is 4 to 5 times larger in terms of participation.
NZF is very disappointing. With basic issues such as recruitment, I doubt whether they seek any HR expertise given the many cocks that have been made on this front.
Yes very true at that grass roots, NPC level. But they have also got a lot right in the last 20 odd years at the elite, ABs level especially. NZ has a smaller rugby playing base than England, France & South Africa. And until the Silver Lake deal alot less cash than RFU England for sure.
Yet since rugby went professional the ABs have had a truly excellent 80% plus winning record. The rugby pyramid of schoolboy-club/NPC/age group-Super Rugby-ABs works very very well to make sure talented players are tracked closely, with not many falling through the cracks. It's a very centralised pathway managed by NZR that produces a stream of high class skilled players, plus importantly a big number of high class coaches. Note how NZers coach many of the world's international teams. Yes it's a tiny pond World Rugby compared to football, but the number of Kiwis coaching at a high level is still impressive. There is alot NZR got very right in the Steve Tew era.
Big Pete's comments above are interesting. A mate who works for Olympics NZ, had some less than flattering comments about dealing with the Ferns, them having overinflated opinions of themselves considering they only had to bully OFC teams to make an Olympiad.
At the risk of going overboard on the rugby analogies, in 2004 the first year Henry, Hansen & Smith took over the ABs - they viewed about halfway through the season an unprofessional, heavy drinking environment and it all came to a head when they got thrashed by the Boks in Sth Africa. Had an inhouse meeting with some senior players, incl a young Richie McCaw (captain in waiting). Went for a no dick head selfish culture (so basically end of careers of guys like Spencer, Justin Marshall etc), and adopted a team first ethos with senior players sweeping out the changing rooms after training etc. Young players encouraged to speak up in meetings etc. No one bigger than the team
It takes courage for any coaching setup to come into a long established international team, shake it up and make sweeping changes with a view they benefit in the longer term. But the best coaches often have that courage. Certainly likely why NZR plumped for Smith with the Black Ferns, as he'd sort of been there done that with the ABs.
I don't agree with everyting SN scribbles at all, but his view that an unconfident Klimkova is under the spell of Riley & others of the old guard may not be far from the truth.
NZ Rugby's problems start from the bottom up. If the foundations are not right then the game will crumble from the top. Where are all of the talented young players bursting onto the scene such as we had twenty odd years ago?
We have colleges who cannot field a team. You may have read the article a couple of years ago regarding Nae Nae college who only had 4 boys wanting to play Rugby. The 4 players joined up with Hutt Valley High which has a roll of 2k and they could only muster 3 teams.
The All Blacks recent form is not great. They lost to Ireland for the first time a few years ago and got dicked last season by Ireland at home. Ireland has less players than Taranaki Rugby, it is a very, very minor sport in Ireland.
Rugby in Aussie is about their 5th or 6th largest sport so no one really cares a toss. NZ Rugby also have a history of churning out bullshark. They claimed that 4 Billion viewers would watch the 2011 World Cup and also claimed that it was the World's third biggest sports Tournament.
Sure, NZ Football have been poor for decades but the comparison with NZ Rugby does not stack up IMO.
Sure rugby is 2nd now to football in Auckland and Wellington but it’s still the number 1 code everywhere else in NZ. If not always participation wise then certainly profile wise. Don’t forget the average adult will retire from rugby much earlier than football due to its pure high collision nature. I played rugby into my mid twenties (plus a lot of medium distance running) and had hip resurfacing surgery done early at age 48. There are far more Masters leagues in the round ball code.
But those guys who stopped playing rugby at school still strongly follow it. The talent is still coming through, it will just year upon year have an every increasing Polynesian look to it’s elite playing base. Sort of head in a NFL direction where most kids stop playing at school, and increasingly only those looking to be pro players continue playing. I wouldn’t rule out an upset ABs win at the World Cup this year
Rugby in Ireland is yipe behind football, hurling and Gaelic football but it has a strong following. They pack out the 60,000 Avía Stadium for Irish internationals. It’s the one code that has a unified Ireland team. They have actually adopted a bit of a centralised NZ model with their 4 provinces, and yes certainly now bounce above their weight off a smallest player base.
But in summary I’d agrue NZ Rugby have got alot (though far from everything) right in that elite player space, with a very effective clear pyramid pathway. But yes they have definitely dropped the ball re the amateur/club/NPC base and player numbers will continue to fall. Though I’m not sure it will hurt the ABs/Super Rugby much, as most of that fall out will be skinny Pakeha kids who were never going to be Richie McCaw anyways. It will go more like the NFL
Can NZF learn much from NZ Rugby? Probably not. How likes of Croatia, Uruguay & Iceland pull above their football weights maybe of more relevance. Or if we are talking the Women’s game, Canada which has become a powerhouse of recent times
I disagree with you stating that Rugby is still the number 1 code outside Auckland and Wellington. In the Wairarapa Football is clearly number 1. Greytown Football only started up about 12 years ago and they have 5 senior teams and 150 kids playing meanwhile Greytown Rugby struggles. In Featherston they now do not have a Rugby team and Football has taken over their Facilities. In the Taranaki two former power houses of the province's club Rugby, Stratford and Inglewood have now amalgamated to form one team.
Try watching Grass Roots Rugby and you will become aware of the massive drop off with so many Rugby Clubs now in recess. Some of the smaller provinces are down to 3 or 4 club teams.
