Life and death
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I thought that HB were all over Waikato for the first 10 to 15 minutes and Waikato looked very shakey defending set pieces. Their goal was against the run of play but from then on the rest of the half was theirs in terms of looking the better team. Reasonably even in the second half but I always had the impression that HB would equalise and it didn't surprise me when they went in front as they had been exerting a lot of pressure for 10 to 15 minutes prior. Waikato do move the ball around a lot but if I was to compare them to Auckland city, Auckland seemed to have a lot more purpose and looked like they might explode at any time, Waikato gave me the impression they moved the ball around a lot at the back but the final touch let them down. Probably more noticeable coming at the end of a 5/6+ series of passes than a 1 pass - duffer. I said Waikato deserved a result and maybe a draw would have been fair. I certainly wouldn't rate their attack impotent, 2 good goals on Sunday. I couldn't get over how young a lot of their players looked, I've got food in my fridge older than half of them.
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http://www.hawkesbaytoday.co.nz/news/football-winning-goal-boosts-contract-bargaining/1301873/
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Waikato's first goal came at the end of about 25 passes the length of the field.
 
The second goal was about 12 passes, and then Boyd broke through the middle.
 
The funny thing was the run of the play report and the match report completely overlooked Waikato hitting the woodwork, the turned down penalty shout and stuff like that. Pity the cameras weren't there.
 
I thought Waikato did quite a lot wkith their possession, they created some pretty good chances. They can't defend though.
 
I will stick my head out and risk being shot down here and say I think Waikato are really amazing for a bunch of kids. I have not been around the game as long as some of you, but Mr Edge is definitiely onto something with what he is developing, I think. Is anyone else in NZ doing stuff like this?
 
 
 
 
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Declan is a bellendDunking Donut2012-03-14 10:05:42
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Why this guy (DE) deserves so much attention? Is he some sort of celebrity or just an anonymous who wants to be in the headlines?

Who cares who he is or what he does. Waikato has 8 points out of 13 games, or approximately  half of what they had at the end of the last season. If that's achievement to be proud of, then my congratulations.
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I think he draws attention and discussion because he is trying to do something different.
 
He has taken a bunch of kids from his own district and made them into a useful, if not dominant national league team, playing a style of football not often seen here. And if I understand it right, they are doing it on the basis of, unlike every other team, not paying any one.
 
It may not look like much now, but if they stop making a few basic defensive errors, it could be big. It's interesting because we might be seeing the start of something, whereas i understand last season Waikato spent a fortune and had next to no Waikato players.
 
so fair play to the guy.
 
 
WeeNix
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Hello ASUS.
 
First time I had seen Dan Looker, so I'm reticent to make absolute judgements.
 
But he added a physical presence to Waikato up front, was athletic, and did not look out of place. I expect he will sharpen up with more play, and i hope to see more of him.
 
To the chap who compared a melville United website report with those pitched at a more general audience... you should be aware the Melville report is for a Melville audience,  makes no secret of viewing events from a Melville perspective, and is not trying to be anything else. Most will realise this of course, but thought i would point it out for those that don't.
 
 
 
 
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The only time Wakaito have kept the ball this season is when they knock it about between their goalkeeper, back four, and holding midfielder...exciting stuff
Marquee
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The only time Wakaito have kept the ball this season is when they knock it about between their goalkeeper, back four, and holding midfielder...exciting stuff


Yep, much better they spend tens of thousands bringing 3rd rate Aucklanders in to play 2nd ball football to finish one or two places higher on the table.
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aitkenmike wrote:
The only time Wakaito have kept the ball this season is when they knock it about between their goalkeeper, back four, and holding midfielder...exciting stuff


Yep, much better they spend tens of thousands bringing 3rd rate Aucklanders in to play 2nd ball football to finish one or two places higher on the table.


Just be nice to see a coach try and win the league rather than conceding it to the 2 Auckland teams before the season started...Canterbury stated they wanted to win it from the outset, recruited well and used local talent...at least their fans will be happy I suppose
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aitkenmike wrote:
The only time Wakaito have kept the ball this season is when they knock it about between their goalkeeper, back four, and holding midfielder...exciting stuff


Yep, much better they spend tens of thousands bringing 3rd rate Aucklanders in to play 2nd ball football to finish one or two places higher on the table.


I am not sure that you know what you are talking about?

Players who played for Waikato FC last year were not paid at all.

Auckland would be able to put together at least another two teams which would be better then this year Waikato team.

But, it is all about local footballers so, in my view its' OK to give the youngsters chance.

In addition,based on the one year only, it is hard to say "Declan FC" project is  success or failure. Next year will provide the answer to it if they are still part of this franchise.
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You would expect then that Declan's team would change significantly next year as the majority will be heading offshore to play professionally? Is that not right? Anyone know how long he intends to keep an individual before they either get a contract or are deemed past it? 
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If Waikato make the final of the white ribbon & beat Otago (which is quite possible) surely that's a good base for next season?
Cock
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You would expect then that Declan's team would change significantly next year as the majority will be heading offshore to play professionally? Is that not right? Anyone know how long he intends to keep an individual before they either get a contract or are deemed past it? 


THANK YOU!!

This is precisely the point I have been trying to make the whole bloody year. How can this be good for the franchise long term when his academy attendees are being groomed for pro contracts and thus, move away? It invariably means they are lost to the region or if they are not good enough, jettisoned.The only way its good for the region is if his academy attendees fail to get contracts elsewhere and end up staying, thus proving Declans acadmey system to fail or the quality of the attendee to be poor. (which means they not going to be good enough for Premiership football or Premiership football is really poor)

No one has yet to actually answer it objectively because I'm trying to see how this works for Waikato FC long term.

Jeff Vader2012-03-15 23:43:16
Life and death
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On those terms you'd have to ask the question wouldn't you? From a Waikato perspective it is best that Declan's boys fail to become pro footballers and stay in the region and play for WFC. That wouldn't fit in with Declan's plans because he'll want to restock his academy players with those he thinks might make it in the pro game and they're back to square 1 every year with a young team that has lots of potential but sits at the bottom of the table. Good for those players in terms of experiene etc but not doing a great deal for the NZFC competition.
 
I like what Declan is doing but we've got to realise that in the NZFC context they have to fail for WFC to be sustainable. The Youth League is probably the best place for them and Declan's model is something that other clubs could develop for their youth systems perhaps?
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Jeff Vader wrote:


You would expect then that Declan's team would change significantly next year as the majority will be heading offshore to play professionally? Is that not right? Anyone know how long he intends to keep an individual before they either get a contract or are deemed past it?�
THANK YOU!!This is precisely the point I have been trying to make the whole bloody year. How can this be good for the franchise long term when his academy attendees are being groomed for pro contracts and thus, move away? It invariably means they are lost to the region or if they are not good enough, jettisoned.The only way its good for the region is if his academy attendees fail to
get contracts elsewhere and end up staying, thus proving Declans
acadmey system to fail or the quality of the attendee to be poor. (which means they not going to be good enough for Premiership football or Premiership football is really poor)No one has yet to actually answer it objectively because I'm trying to see how this works for Waikato FC long term.


If you think about it like that then no club should ever do any youth development at all because the same holds for any program, not just Declan's.

If he has 11 players, even if he is hugely successful not all of them (or probably half of them) will go on to get pro contracts internationally. Those that are left may still be much better footballers than they would have been had they not been in the team/program and some will likely remain in the Waikato, thus strengthening the team from where they would have been. How is this any different than any other youth training programme for any other club? (remember this is all making the assumption his system is good at developing players, I have no idea whether this is the case or not.)
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Ridiculous comments!
Of course it would be good for the franchise if players got pro contracts as they would be financially rewarded as they have the players on long term contracts - right? WRONG, Declan has them on contracts so he will benefit from them getting contracts.. :(
Once they are all playing overseas Declan will restock his academy with the next generation - right? WRONG this has solely been set up around Declans son, Harry and nephew Jesse, there will not be a next generation!

So is Declan the anti-christ??? NO why shouldn't he set up an academy based around his own son and why shouldn't he benefit financially from helping some of these kids get pro-contracts?

I don't see WFC doing anything to provide an alternative, this season as many before was always going to have to be run on a shoestring, with players who would play for nothing! Until that changes and that requires a more forward thinking board/owner the team will lose, so it may as well lose trying to play football and develop good players, rather than just get in run of the mill Northern League players who will scrap and kick and chase!

If you rremember back a couple of years, when poms were brought in for relatively big $$ under Roger W, the team finished in a similar position and certainly didnt have the same 'glowing' reviews about the quality of football being played. Then Buncey took over and had a horror season of poor football and even worse results! Only Edmunson came close to doing anything remotely decent when they were top of the table at Christmas but faltered in the New Year.

At least this group of youngsters 'might' develop and provide the team with a bit of continuity for once from one season to the next...
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Waikato just bet Manawatu 3-1, in Taupo, to make the final of the White Ribbon Cup (vs Wellington).
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Waikato last ASB Premiership match against Otago will be played on Sunday 25th March at Porritt starting at 1.00pm
 
The final of the White Ribbon Cup between Waikato and Wellington will be played on Sunday 1st April. The venue has yet to be confirmed.
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aitkenmike wrote:
Jeff Vader wrote:


You would expect then that Declan's team would change significantly next year as the majority will be heading offshore to play professionally? Is that not right? Anyone know how long he intends to keep an individual before they either get a contract or are deemed past it? 
THANK YOU!!This is precisely the point I have been trying to make the whole bloody year. How can this be good for the franchise long term when his academy attendees are being groomed for pro contracts and thus, move away? It invariably means they are lost to the region or if they are not good enough, jettisoned.The only way its good for the region is if his academy attendees fail to
get contracts elsewhere and end up staying, thus proving Declans
acadmey system to fail or the quality of the attendee to be poor. (which means they not going to be good enough for Premiership football or Premiership football is really poor)No one has yet to actually answer it objectively because I'm trying to see how this works for Waikato FC long term.


If you think about it like that then no club should ever do any youth development at all because the same holds for any program, not just Declan's.

If he has 11 players, even if he is hugely successful not all of them (or probably half of them) will go on to get pro contracts internationally. Those that are left may still be much better footballers than they would have been had they not been in the team/program and some will likely remain in the Waikato, thus strengthening the team from where they would have been. How is this any different than any other youth training programme for any other club? (remember this is all making the assumption his system is good at developing players, I have no idea whether this is the case or not.)


I disagree Mike. In this case, Waikato are unique because the player base (and I am going on what others say) primarily comes from an academy that is designed to get players playing elsewhere in the world. If you compare that to say Hawkes Bay United (I'll avoid using ACFC but the comparison is equally as fair), they are not grooming youth talent with a primary goal of getting a pro contract overseas (All youth are groomed to play higher levels but not so obviously stated as Declans academy). HBU would bring kids in with an option of playing 1st team football. i.e HBU are the end of the line at that club. With Declan wearing 2 hats, he is wanting his kids to get out of Waikato to play elsewhere. So thats why I come back to 'How does this benefit Waikato FC long term?' Talent development at HBU is for that club, at WFC, it is to go somewhere else.

I'm not saying its right or wrong or there is a better solution (or that this is a bad one) but its bloody hard to see how this benefits the team long term when the stated goal is to have these kids playing someone else in the world real soon.
Marquee
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So Hawkes Bay are trying to develop the talented youth in the area to achieve just the right balance between excellence and mediocrity to make them good enough for Hawkes Bay, but not get the attention of a Professional side?

I am being a little facetious obviously, but when you say there is a difference between the primary goal of Declan's academy and HBU's I would hope you are wrong. I would hope the primary goal of both (and any) academies is to make the players in it the best footballers that their potential will allow.
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Yeah I do get your point Mike entirely. I suspect (and I am working off my own guess) that ACFC groom their players to win championships first, play professionally somewhere else second. I would suspect that provided youth development did not get in the way of winning, then fine.

I think the reason why the microscope is so fixated on this one because the Waikato situation has been so over-reported that they are (majority) the kids from Declans academy and when he talks, that's the main thrust of what he talks about. I don't hear him often (he may do, but I am vague to remember) talk about Waikato first. Its taking pot shots at other franchises, his kids do that, being an All Whites shouldn't be a big deal to these kids as it changes nothing, his kids train 6 days a week his kids, his kids, his kids. It still doesn't get me away from my stated question that where is the benefit to Waikato FC. I accept that what Declan does with his kids is going to be good for 'football' because twice a day 6 days a week has to give a kid some benefit unless he is bloody rubbish, but how does it benefit the team long term when all the kids are groomed to piss off and play somewhere else?
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Waikato scored some great goals today but were held to 3-3 by Otago. Funny game, but some tremendous individual skills. Pity more juniors arent watching these games, seeing what is possible with a bit of clever passing and close skills. Some of these kids are genuinely talented.
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Theres a reason kids/ people in general dont watch Waikato... ASUS2012-03-25 20:10:19
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ASUS wrote:



Theres a reason kids/ people in general dont�watch Waikato...


And that is?

Maybe it is brainless comments from the coach like 'don't try and get involved in supporting the side in two years time if you weren't here when it was tough' or 'this is the best Waikato side ever'

A few years ago with a certain Marco Rojas playing Waikato were well supported at Ngaruawahia and were almost unbeatable at home, even beating Waitakere that season who were unbeaten other than that game on NZ soil that season!

A reality check is needed as this season of the NZFC / ASB has probably been the weakest ever with Manawatu the equivalent if a northern div2 side and Otago little better.

Yes Waikato have some good technical players but the coaching they have received is at best half cocked! Out I possession play is as important as in possession play, you only have to watch barcelona's structure and work ethic out if possession to realize that!
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I would not accept the statement that it is one of the worst however it has got signs now for a better league and I'll explain that.

ACFC will always be themselves.
Canty have stepped up and will most likely be the other O League side because Waitak need an overhaul and will not win the league outright (well it would be against the run of play)
Wellington have had a major overhaul and are putting in some good results and football with a very young side. Average age of what, 21? If that side stick, they are going to be dynamite. Calcott has taken some lumps but my god they will be scary next year.
Otago played better under Richard Murray than Malcolm with out all the crap that came with it and young players that just played. They got robbed of some players mid season but their future looks promising.
HBU have some nice little players and as Greatholder said, they were starting to hit their straps. Can they do it from the start next year?
Waikato tossed the old model out and started again and as much as I am not a Declan fan, he didn't do any worse and his kids could be industrious (if the team does stick and they learn effective passing football, not just passing football)
Manawatu.. sh*t captain, sh*t attitude and I feel sorry for Stu being lumped with this lot.

In a couple of years, it could be promising for some of these young teams now.
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Jeff Vader wrote:
I would not accept the statement that it is one of the worst however it has got signs now for a better league and I'll explain that.

ACFC will always be themselves.
Canty have stepped up and will most likely be the other O League side because Waitak need an overhaul and will not win the league outright (well it would be against the run of play)
Wellington have had a major overhaul and are putting in some good results and football with a very young side. Average age of what, 21? If that side stick, they are going to be dynamite. Calcott has taken some lumps but my god they will be scary next year.
Otago played better under Richard Murray than Malcolm with out all the crap that came with it and young players that just played. They got robbed of some players mid season but their future looks promising.
HBU have some nice little players and as Greatholder said, they were starting to hit their straps. Can they do it from the start next year?
Waikato tossed the old model out and started again and as much as I am not a Declan fan, he didn't do any worse and his kids could be industrious (if the team does stick and they learn effective passing football, not just passing football)
Manawatu.. sh*t captain, sh*t attitude and I feel sorry for Stu being lumped with this lot.

In a couple of years, it could be promising for some of these young teams now.
 
Vader, you are talking about potential... I was talking about the current quality of the league;
ACFC good as usual, maybe not as good as there WCC successful season but not been pushed.. (=)
Canty - yes an improvement on a few years ago. (+)
Waitakere - worst Waitak side in many a year, needs a clear out!(-)
Team Wellington - good young side, due to many young players moving to Wellington for age group recognition and training with Phoenix.(+)
HBU - poor side, much worse than when Gould had them. 1 or 2 decent players, Margetts for example.(= or -)
Otago - better prospects than in previous years but again a poor side. (=)
Waikato - again real prospects but clearly not as good as some of the previous sides ie. Mathews, Pearce, Rojas, Margetts, Hogg, Mayne team or the Wilkinson, Sole, Williams, Woods team..(- but admittedly a + for potential)
Manawatu - well seriously this is by far the worst side to have ever played NZFC! (-!)
 
In terms of the quality of the league this season, here and now, in my opinion this is the weakest season of the NZFC/ASB.
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Some photos of the Waikato v Otago game

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sideliNextlickr/sets/72157629677733089/
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I agree that this may be the weakest ASB/NZFC on record. When you think what the teams like Jones and Posa' ACFC or Milicich's Waitakere would have done to the teams in this year's version of the league you have to wonder if this is now the true state of our domestic players in NZ?
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The Waikato FC records were in their programme on Sunday.
 
Most Appearances:
David Samson 66
Aaron Scott 52
Che Bunce 50
 
Most goals:
Steven Holloway 14
Matt Williams 10
Michael Gwyther 10
(all others in single figures)
 
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I wonder what people think after the weekend game, would Gower park be a better venue for Waikato that Poritt Stadium? There is no grandstand, but it is better to watch at and has a nicer feel. Does anyone agree?
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Its interesting that a lot of people say that this years NZFC is the weakest it has been in years, because i have heard more about NZ players at a NZFC level than ever before...
 
and the names i'm hearing is that of young players coming up through the ranks and looking to make an impact. Galbraith / Fenton / Rowe from Wellington, Sam Margetts, both Edge boys, Lovemore for city, Bevan when he was back from the states....
 
Whilst there may have been a fall of in terms of standards is it likely in a year or two to move to the highest standard it has ever been.
 
For so long its been a two horse race and now you have Canterbury and Wellington competing and looking to get in the O - League. This can only be good for the game.
 
NZ Football clearly is getting better, look at how many players are beginning to make a go of it overseas... if the competitions were really droppng off in standard this shouldn't happen.
 
Perhaps its not so much the standard but our expectation that has changed. I know mine are alot higher than 3 - 4 years ago.
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Interesting piece in the Waikato Times about Waikato football: http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/sport/7112952/Edges-talented-Waikato-teens-are-in-the-sights-of-New-Zealands-top-teams

 

Edge talks a lot of sense, added with the usual controversial/unlikely comment - 7 or 8 players making the A-League or higher might be a bit of a stretch.

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http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/sport/7664751/Edge-going-shopping-for-Waikato-FC


Some people may criticise for doing so, but I reckon it's a must-do for Waikato to have any chance of accomplishing things this year, any thoughts?

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So basically he is eating his words. He's gone from "I'll produce players that will be better than anything seen from this region and will play overseas" to "we haven't got players good enough and need to get them in"

A: it never stopped him playing players out of their depth last year so why is this year different?

B: As stated previously, his scheme will not benefit Waikato football. If it did, why does he need to bring in players?

C: If he believed in his philosophy so much, then develop those kids. He has had them 12 months at Waikato and then at Melville

Getting relegated at NRFL proved his scheme was bollocks (with mostly the same Waikato players) and now it's about ego and wanting to win. I commend Calcott for picking a young Wellington side last year. Look how they performed once they found their stride. The key is "young players that could perform". Edges kids can't when they are getting coached with every kick for 90mins

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Haven`t heard from "Bruce H"  for a while ??       Hopefully he hasn`t given up on the Declan cause ??

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Jeff Vader wrote:

So basically he is eating his words. He's gone from "I'll produce players that will be better than anything seen from this region and will play overseas" to "we haven't got players good enough and need to get them in"

A: it never stopped him playing players out of their depth last year so why is this year different?

B: As stated previously, his scheme will not benefit Waikato football. If it did, why does he need to bring in players?

C: If he believed in his philosophy so much, then develop those kids. He has had them 12 months at Waikato and then at Melville

Getting relegated at NRFL proved his scheme was bollocks (with mostly the same Waikato players) and now it's about ego and wanting to win. I commend Calcott for picking a young Wellington side last year. Look how they performed once they found their stride. The key is "young players that could perform". Edges kids can't when they are getting coached with every kick for 90mins


Yeah Melville definitely did not go down well, but that fact does remain that without a goalkeeper and striker Waikato will likely finish last and he will get sacked. I still think the majority of the side will be young, Waikato-based players, as many as we can while still making them competitive. So I think Declan's hand has been forced, but I mostly agree with what you are saying. It'll be intresting to see how things go, there were some real promising signs last year, but losing Hicks will hurt.
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Wholeheartedly agree with Jeff V. Ironic d e is now looking for an out n out striker.................. he had Mike Thompson as an option last year but of course M T wasn't the kind of guy d e could bully, bet he'd give his eye teeth for him now. WaiFC will struggle to finish off the bottom, both their best and most skillful players, Hicks and Ballan not there this year. Few token signings from Ham Wanderers will get sick of making up the numbers on the training feild.......................... Still we can look forward to the progress of the Edge boys.

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Yikes! Only a 2-2 draw in a pre-season practise match against a mid-table First Division Ngaruawahia team that hasn't trained together for two weeks today?! (Could have lost 1-2!)

 Both WFC goals were soft, the first coming early in the first half from a Ngara own-goal off a well-taken WFC corner kick. From a distance, it almost seemed to be blown in by the wind (but was actually a deflection that ballooned over keeper Danyon Drake), and certainly had no help from WFC once it had left the corner. The second came in the dying minutes to salvage the draw after a debatably off-side cross from a rare run up the right by Josh Thomas, which resulted in the ball somehow finding it's way into the net.

The Ngaruawahia goals, on the other hand, were actually constructed, and then well finished by Herve Kadiya and Tim Kautai. Tim's goal, which gave Ngara the lead 2/3rds of the way thru the second half, came from a great piece of work by Ben Latham, who had swapped to the right after an injury substitution. WFC, on the other hand, seemed to have no idea how to break down the Ngarra defense, and created very few chances on goal once Ngara had remembered how to play together again after the first 20 minutes.

Some pictures from the game can be found on the Ngaruawahia club web sit, and include shots of some of the Auckland/Birko etc guys who have joined the squad.

http://ngaruawahiasoccer.co.nz 

http://ngaruawahiasoccer.co.nz/photos/2012-photo-galleries/ 

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