The WaiBOP United Thread
Who cares who he is or what he does. Waikato has 8 points out of 13 games, or approximately half of what they had at the end of the last season. If that's achievement to be proud of, then my congratulations.
Yep, much better they spend tens of thousands bringing 3rd rate Aucklanders in to play 2nd ball football to finish one or two places higher on the table.
Yep, much better they spend tens of thousands bringing 3rd rate Aucklanders in to play 2nd ball football to finish one or two places higher on the table.
Just be nice to see a coach try and win the league rather than conceding it to the 2 Auckland teams before the season started...Canterbury stated they wanted to win it from the outset, recruited well and used local talent...at least their fans will be happy I suppose
Yep, much better they spend tens of thousands bringing 3rd rate Aucklanders in to play 2nd ball football to finish one or two places higher on the table.
I am not sure that you know what you are talking about?
Players who played for Waikato FC last year were not paid at all.
Auckland would be able to put together at least another two teams which would be better then this year Waikato team.
But, it is all about local footballers so, in my view its' OK to give the youngsters chance.
In addition,based on the one year only, it is hard to say "Declan FC" project is success or failure. Next year will provide the answer to it if they are still part of this franchise.
THANK YOU!!
This is precisely the point I have been trying to make the whole bloody year. How can this be good for the franchise long term when his academy attendees are being groomed for pro contracts and thus, move away? It invariably means they are lost to the region or if they are not good enough, jettisoned.The only way its good for the region is if his academy attendees fail to get contracts elsewhere and end up staying, thus proving Declans acadmey system to fail or the quality of the attendee to be poor. (which means they not going to be good enough for Premiership football or Premiership football is really poor)
No one has yet to actually answer it objectively because I'm trying to see how this works for Waikato FC long term.
Jeff Vader2012-03-15 23:43:16
get contracts elsewhere and end up staying, thus proving Declans
acadmey system to fail or the quality of the attendee to be poor. (which means they not going to be good enough for Premiership football or Premiership football is really poor)No one has yet to actually answer it objectively because I'm trying to see how this works for Waikato FC long term.
If you think about it like that then no club should ever do any youth development at all because the same holds for any program, not just Declan's.
If he has 11 players, even if he is hugely successful not all of them (or probably half of them) will go on to get pro contracts internationally. Those that are left may still be much better footballers than they would have been had they not been in the team/program and some will likely remain in the Waikato, thus strengthening the team from where they would have been. How is this any different than any other youth training programme for any other club? (remember this is all making the assumption his system is good at developing players, I have no idea whether this is the case or not.)
Of course it would be good for the franchise if players got pro contracts as they would be financially rewarded as they have the players on long term contracts - right? WRONG, Declan has them on contracts so he will benefit from them getting contracts.. :(
Once they are all playing overseas Declan will restock his academy with the next generation - right? WRONG this has solely been set up around Declans son, Harry and nephew Jesse, there will not be a next generation!
So is Declan the anti-christ??? NO why shouldn't he set up an academy based around his own son and why shouldn't he benefit financially from helping some of these kids get pro-contracts?
I don't see WFC doing anything to provide an alternative, this season as many before was always going to have to be run on a shoestring, with players who would play for nothing! Until that changes and that requires a more forward thinking board/owner the team will lose, so it may as well lose trying to play football and develop good players, rather than just get in run of the mill Northern League players who will scrap and kick and chase!
If you rremember back a couple of years, when poms were brought in for relatively big $$ under Roger W, the team finished in a similar position and certainly didnt have the same 'glowing' reviews about the quality of football being played. Then Buncey took over and had a horror season of poor football and even worse results! Only Edmunson came close to doing anything remotely decent when they were top of the table at Christmas but faltered in the New Year.
At least this group of youngsters 'might' develop and provide the team with a bit of continuity for once from one season to the next...
get contracts elsewhere and end up staying, thus proving Declans
acadmey system to fail or the quality of the attendee to be poor. (which means they not going to be good enough for Premiership football or Premiership football is really poor)No one has yet to actually answer it objectively because I'm trying to see how this works for Waikato FC long term.
If you think about it like that then no club should ever do any youth development at all because the same holds for any program, not just Declan's.
If he has 11 players, even if he is hugely successful not all of them (or probably half of them) will go on to get pro contracts internationally. Those that are left may still be much better footballers than they would have been had they not been in the team/program and some will likely remain in the Waikato, thus strengthening the team from where they would have been. How is this any different than any other youth training programme for any other club? (remember this is all making the assumption his system is good at developing players, I have no idea whether this is the case or not.)
I disagree Mike. In this case, Waikato are unique because the player base (and I am going on what others say) primarily comes from an academy that is designed to get players playing elsewhere in the world. If you compare that to say Hawkes Bay United (I'll avoid using ACFC but the comparison is equally as fair), they are not grooming youth talent with a primary goal of getting a pro contract overseas (All youth are groomed to play higher levels but not so obviously stated as Declans academy). HBU would bring kids in with an option of playing 1st team football. i.e HBU are the end of the line at that club. With Declan wearing 2 hats, he is wanting his kids to get out of Waikato to play elsewhere. So thats why I come back to 'How does this benefit Waikato FC long term?' Talent development at HBU is for that club, at WFC, it is to go somewhere else.
I'm not saying its right or wrong or there is a better solution (or that this is a bad one) but its bloody hard to see how this benefits the team long term when the stated goal is to have these kids playing someone else in the world real soon.
I am being a little facetious obviously, but when you say there is a difference between the primary goal of Declan's academy and HBU's I would hope you are wrong. I would hope the primary goal of both (and any) academies is to make the players in it the best footballers that their potential will allow.
I think the reason why the microscope is so fixated on this one because the Waikato situation has been so over-reported that they are (majority) the kids from Declans academy and when he talks, that's the main thrust of what he talks about. I don't hear him often (he may do, but I am vague to remember) talk about Waikato first. Its taking pot shots at other franchises, his kids do that, being an All Whites shouldn't be a big deal to these kids as it changes nothing, his kids train 6 days a week his kids, his kids, his kids. It still doesn't get me away from my stated question that where is the benefit to Waikato FC. I accept that what Declan does with his kids is going to be good for 'football' because twice a day 6 days a week has to give a kid some benefit unless he is bloody rubbish, but how does it benefit the team long term when all the kids are groomed to piss off and play somewhere else?
Theres a reason kids/ people in general dont�watch Waikato...
And that is?
Maybe it is brainless comments from the coach like 'don't try and get involved in supporting the side in two years time if you weren't here when it was tough' or 'this is the best Waikato side ever'
A few years ago with a certain Marco Rojas playing Waikato were well supported at Ngaruawahia and were almost unbeatable at home, even beating Waitakere that season who were unbeaten other than that game on NZ soil that season!
A reality check is needed as this season of the NZFC / ASB has probably been the weakest ever with Manawatu the equivalent if a northern div2 side and Otago little better.
Yes Waikato have some good technical players but the coaching they have received is at best half cocked! Out I possession play is as important as in possession play, you only have to watch barcelona's structure and work ethic out if possession to realize that!
ACFC will always be themselves.
Canty have stepped up and will most likely be the other O League side because Waitak need an overhaul and will not win the league outright (well it would be against the run of play)
Wellington have had a major overhaul and are putting in some good results and football with a very young side. Average age of what, 21? If that side stick, they are going to be dynamite. Calcott has taken some lumps but my god they will be scary next year.
Otago played better under Richard Murray than Malcolm with out all the crap that came with it and young players that just played. They got robbed of some players mid season but their future looks promising.
HBU have some nice little players and as Greatholder said, they were starting to hit their straps. Can they do it from the start next year?
Waikato tossed the old model out and started again and as much as I am not a Declan fan, he didn't do any worse and his kids could be industrious (if the team does stick and they learn effective passing football, not just passing football)
Manawatu.. sh*t captain, sh*t attitude and I feel sorry for Stu being lumped with this lot.
In a couple of years, it could be promising for some of these young teams now.
ACFC will always be themselves.
Canty have stepped up and will most likely be the other O League side because Waitak need an overhaul and will not win the league outright (well it would be against the run of play)
Wellington have had a major overhaul and are putting in some good results and football with a very young side. Average age of what, 21? If that side stick, they are going to be dynamite. Calcott has taken some lumps but my god they will be scary next year.
Otago played better under Richard Murray than Malcolm with out all the crap that came with it and young players that just played. They got robbed of some players mid season but their future looks promising.
HBU have some nice little players and as Greatholder said, they were starting to hit their straps. Can they do it from the start next year?
Waikato tossed the old model out and started again and as much as I am not a Declan fan, he didn't do any worse and his kids could be industrious (if the team does stick and they learn effective passing football, not just passing football)
Manawatu.. sh*t captain, sh*t attitude and I feel sorry for Stu being lumped with this lot.
In a couple of years, it could be promising for some of these young teams now.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sideliNextlickr/sets/72157629677733089/
Interesting piece in the Waikato Times about Waikato football: http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/sport/7112952/Edges-talented-Waikato-teens-are-in-the-sights-of-New-Zealands-top-teams
Edge talks a lot of sense, added with the usual controversial/unlikely comment - 7 or 8 players making the A-League or higher might be a bit of a stretch.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/sport/7664751/Edge-going-shopping-for-Waikato-FC
Some people may criticise for doing so, but I reckon it's a must-do for Waikato to have any chance of accomplishing things this year, any thoughts?
So basically he is eating his words. He's gone from "I'll
produce players that will be better than anything seen from this
region and will play overseas" to "we haven't got players good
enough and need to get them in"
A: it never stopped him playing players out of their depth last year so why is this year different?
B: As stated previously, his scheme will not benefit Waikato football. If it did, why does he need to bring in players?
C: If he believed in his philosophy so much, then develop those kids. He has had them 12 months at Waikato and then at Melville
Getting relegated at NRFL proved his scheme was bollocks (with mostly the same Waikato players) and now it's about ego and wanting to win. I commend Calcott for picking a young Wellington side last year. Look how they performed once they found their stride. The key is "young players that could perform". Edges kids can't when they are getting coached with every kick for 90mins
Haven`t heard from "Bruce H" for a while ?? Hopefully he hasn`t given up on the Declan cause ??
So basically he is eating his words. He's gone from "I'll
produce players that will be better than anything seen from this
region and will play overseas" to "we haven't got players good
enough and need to get them in"
A: it never stopped him playing players out of their depth last year so why is this year different?
B: As stated previously, his scheme will not benefit Waikato football. If it did, why does he need to bring in players?
C: If he believed in his philosophy so much, then develop those kids. He has had them 12 months at Waikato and then at Melville
Getting relegated at NRFL proved his scheme was bollocks (with mostly the same Waikato players) and now it's about ego and wanting to win. I commend Calcott for picking a young Wellington side last year. Look how they performed once they found their stride. The key is "young players that could perform". Edges kids can't when they are getting coached with every kick for 90mins
Wholeheartedly agree with Jeff V. Ironic d e is now looking for an out n out striker.................. he had Mike Thompson as an option last year but of course M T wasn't the kind of guy d e could bully, bet he'd give his eye teeth for him now. WaiFC will struggle to finish off the bottom, both their best and most skillful players, Hicks and Ballan not there this year. Few token signings from Ham Wanderers will get sick of making up the numbers on the training feild.......................... Still we can look forward to the progress of the Edge boys.
Yikes! Only a 2-2 draw in a pre-season practise match against a mid-table First Division Ngaruawahia team that hasn't trained together for two weeks today?! (Could have lost 1-2!)
Both WFC goals were soft, the first coming early in the first half from a Ngara own-goal off a well-taken WFC corner kick. From a distance, it almost seemed to be blown in by the wind (but was actually a deflection that ballooned over keeper Danyon Drake), and certainly had no help from WFC once it had left the corner. The second came in the dying minutes to salvage the draw after a debatably off-side cross from a rare run up the right by Josh Thomas, which resulted in the ball somehow finding it's way into the net.
The Ngaruawahia goals, on the other hand, were actually constructed, and then well finished by Herve Kadiya and Tim Kautai. Tim's goal, which gave Ngara the lead 2/3rds of the way thru the second half, came from a great piece of work by Ben Latham, who had swapped to the right after an injury substitution. WFC, on the other hand, seemed to have no idea how to break down the Ngarra defense, and created very few chances on goal once Ngara had remembered how to play together again after the first 20 minutes.
Some pictures from the game can be found on the Ngaruawahia club web sit, and include shots of some of the Auckland/Birko etc guys who have joined the squad.