Auckland City FC - Thanks a Trillion

i don't care if you sing or don't sing - i'm not a ACFC supporter and i don't feel unwelcome at Kiwitea Street.

But as a local auckland grassroots football person - i know that ACFC does sweet fuck all for local football and that's why practically no-one outside their small group of passionate fans could give two fucks about them.

And that's why i don't support a team in ASB premiership - ACFC = self serving arrogant club - nothing against the supporters - not your fault the club has it's head stuck up it's own ass.

Can't we all just get along? It's the same thing which has held back NZ Football since day dot - petty local jealousies and delusions of grandeur, eg clowns at places like Glenfield Rovers who think that there should be a club-based National League (just like back 'ome) and no understanding of the bigger picture. Like it or lump it the Phoenix are top of the pyramid in football here. Imagine if we all pulled in one direction....

Nothing wrong with passionately supporting your own team, but I sure don't get being grumpy about a team which is not even in the same competition as yours.

Well said - NZ football has always been held back by petty local jealousies. I just hope all these anti-ACFC outbursts on this forum don't make neutrals think Kiwitea Street is an unwelcoming fortress because it's not. Anybody is welcome to enjoy the passionate atmosphere, the good football, a great steak sandwich and a chilled beer at the best little ground in the land. You'll also find most of the City supporters very welcoming and friendly (like everywhere we do have the odd oddball), particularily if you turn up with a friendly attitude yourself. We love a laugh, a song and some friendly banter and most importantly watching football.

 Tribulietx keen on Phoenix job

O please. People have repeatedly said they're not anti ACFC on here. Any poor perception of ACFC fans comes from you guys coming on here and attacking the nix and its fans, as well as acting like you're too good for the ASBP and acting like saviours (the competition would be dead if it weren't for us). Granted most of you have changed your tune now and actually seem quite welcoming. Long may that continue.

I think most of us are pro asbp. I certainly am as that's the premier NZ comp. would love to see it grow with a goal of around 2000 fans to each game

I am pro ASB. The competition is fundamentally flawed but its better than any alternatives.

2000 fans a game would be reasonable. I suspect the only way that may happen is to move back to a winter league and play Sundays because those that are football people, thats kinda 'their time' of the year. The weather would not help (and I personally like the concept of football in the sun)

For me, Glyn Taylor has to go. Its nothing personal its just he runs the competition like Novopay and teachers wages. I have heard numerous stories of Glyn just sitting on his hands. The clubs need to be told that the league manager is the boss, ala the NBA. Issue an email on the the Tuesday: This week, this team will wear this colour, this colour and this colour etc. At the moment, its ridiculous with (and this is not a dig) City wear blue and the keeper wears silver against a team in yellow and the referees wear that silly purple. I think the league needs to limit the amount of 'non resident' players to 2 per team and at least be a pathway. Would that make much of a difference? Possibly not but if this is the standard bearer, then make it achieveable for NZ players rather than what the current situation is (again, not a dig)

Its a different conversation for a different thread but I can agree with you Ali in being pro ASB.

JV Glyn Taylor is leaving NZ Football last day is tomorrow (Sunday 3rd March)

 Jeez, that was quick! JV only posted that he should bugger off a couple of hours ago!

Rejoice.

I have contacts in high places.  There are a few more joining Glyn as ex NZ Football staffers see vacancies on their website: http://www.nzfootball.co.nz/index.php?id=vacancies

I know of Grant McKavanagh from his days working for Unistrut. He was a complete cock then and the good oil is that he is as equally unliked at NZF now.

Probably account for the cock-ups then.

Nice to hear you being positive - agree Glyn Taylor had to go - the competition needs someone who'll really fight for the competition within a NZF who seem rather indifferent. Don't think winter national league would work any better because of weather factor and fact that few grounds have many covered seats. I love following Central United in the winter northern league but it's a competition down to its bare bones club supporters.

Have to agree there needs to be a limit on foreign imports - I'd go for three per team in order to promote local players.

Would love to see crowds of 2000 per game but the fact is without much promotion nor tv coverage the ASBP is struggling to attract spectators and coverage. Outside of ACFC, Canterbury and Hawkes Bay the other clubs are usually down to a couple of hundred or less. I've noticed a drop off even at Kiwitea Street and most home crowds hover around the 500 mark except for big games. I remember the great days of Mt Wellington and Christchurch United and North Shore in the old national league when crowds of 2000 plus were frequent. The ASBP should at least be matching that considering football is now the most played sport in the land.

The ASBP definitely needs rejuvination which perhaps new franchises from South Auckland and Nelson could bring. Unfortunately the ASBP faces a strong headwind of indifference which we have to fight against. That's why I appreciate the atmosphere at Kiwitea Street so much. 

I can throw stones Trueblue but since I've been asking you lot to change your tune, I'll change mine. I do wonder how long it will last but I'll buy in and play along.

I think the problem is that the standard of football, save Waitakere and Auckland is well off previous national leagues halicon days. It'll never go back to that either which is a shame. I would argue this year, that the gap has really widened between the top and bottom half. There is a clear divide as to who can make the playoffs and who can't.

Lets be honest, Manawatu are absolutely dire, Waikato have had the shit end of the Declan stick and Otago showed promise last year but this year gave it a distinct feeling of 'meh'

Would new teams rejuvenate the league? If so then you may as well revisit the concept of relegation but thats a whole different discussion (that I am not sure I am in favour of)

I don't pretend to know the answers to low crowds in the ASBP, but doesn't the 'franchise' type set up make it harder for supporters to connect with a particular team? I feel absolutely no connection with ACFC or Waitakere, or Waikato for that matter. I may feel more interest for a South Auckland team.

But if it was Central, Waitakere or Melville, would you feel any connection then? I suspect not and underdstandably so. The whole point of the franchise system was to have teams in 'catchment' areas and have total support as opposed to the club format.

That's all nice in theory. But then you have these franchises being quite obviously aligned with a certain club. This I'm sure puts a lot of people off. More work needs to be put into making all clubs of the franchises area involved in the concept, then perhaps people will buy into it more and feel an attachment. 

Not saying its THE solution. I suspect there isn't just one major problem with the league, but rather a series of smaller problems, this being one of them. 

Edit: I'm not just talking ACFC here either. 

club based = survival of the fittest = best players playing national league = higher standard

Since no-one actually mentioned the game yesterday, just putting on record that Auckland City beat Canterbury 2-1 in Christchurch in the first leg of the semi-final. Waitak beat Hawke's Bay 4-1 in the Bay in the other semi, so look like we're all set for an all-Auckland final.

I think the whole question of franchise vs club based system isn't going to make much difference to be honest. The franchise system was designed to maximize sponsorship and catchment area. Probably only Canterbury is the most successful diverse franchise. ACFC and Hawke's Bay are essentially club based - Central United and Napier City Rovers. Waitakere is mean't to represent a host of clubs and is very successful on the field but attracts little support unless there's a local derby with ACFC.

The old national league involving club sides was unworkable because travel/player costs are high and most clubs couldn't keep up with them. I like the idea of club sides but how many such clubs in NZ could attract more than a few hundred loyal supporters? The winter leagues show this.

The only answer for improving low crowds in the ASBP is for NZF to find major investment in the competition to augment O League prizemoney and sponsorship. ACFC is the most successful set-up and is a model. Likewise Canterbury and Hawke's Bay have a good set-up. The rest are struggling.

But they do have one - ASB. It's just the money is not funnelled into it.

neutral supporters used to attend national league games in droves

add team wellington to the list of clubs in disguise as franchises (miramar rangers)

central united would probably want to keep their auckland city 'brand'

the hawkes bay united umbrella means nothing to me.  napier city rovers has far more authenticity and i don't care about offending macenvale, they are a pointless blip as shown by their disgraceful central league effort last season

agree with true blue about canterbury - this is working very well.  the old christchurch united would be proud

There would be flaws with any system so as it is this is what we've got in this country so let's get in behind it and make it work.

disclaimer: This is not a dig but a genuine question -

For those who don't feel a connection to any of the ASBP teams - Do you feel a connection to the Phoenix?

I'm not sure how I would feel if ACFC for whatever reason ended up playing in the A-League - I suspect I would struggle with it as one of the things I love about the ASBP is the local rivalries etc.

For the record, I've never been to a Kingz, Nightz or Phoenix game.

I feel oddly more connected to the Phoenix because I identify it as representative of my city Wellington, and i feel proud to have a pro side here. The owners are having a good go at alienating that mind you. Whereas team Wellington I just see as miramar in disguise, so to be honest barely feel a connection at all. But I turn up to support the ASBP more than anything, plus I enjoy watching a game of football in the sun - its a day out (when I happen to have the day off work)

An Auckland vs Wellington rivalry in the A league would also be very cool. 

It could turn out messy too. Especially in the forums. I think it would be one of those 'we are supporting the Kiwi team, until we play each other'

I spent 15 years watching the famed club-based National League. I'm not getting into a debate whether the standard now is better or worse - probably the same to be honest. However, average crowds were no better than they are now and there is no way that crowd sizes will improve just because it is a local based FC playing instead of a franchise. Do you really think 2000 people are going to watch Waitakere City vs Palmerston North Marist instead of Waitakere United vs Manawatu?
The reality is that a local national league is never going to attract big crowds on a regular basis - people have a lot of choices in the weekend and unless we get funding from the Middle East to start a pro league with the likes of Del Piero playing, it's never going to be top of mind for the the non-diehards.

Better off spending funding on kids football, coaching coaches and improving facilities

I have to agree. I think one reason there was a lot of interest in the initial club-based national league in the 70s/80s was there was so few other entertainment options in NZ. Now people are bombarded with options for their spare time. I think realistically the ASBP should aim for crowds of around 500 which is what the top three franchises get. Big derby games in Auckland bring out some extra neutrals and top 1000-1500. I have to say I'm disappointed that interest in Team Wellington has dropped away so much but in truth sharing the city with the Phoenix must be like being in bed with an elephant (this isn't a dig at the Phoenix). I can remember when Team Welliington first launched it would attract upwards of 1000 to Newtown Park. Now it's just a rump of a few hundred at Miramar's ground.

A club-based ASBP wouldn't work any better and in fact would probably bankrupt local outfits as happened with the old national league because of high participation costs. I just think the current set-up needs rejuvination and the under-performing franchises need to be culled. Bringing in Nelson and South Auckland would be a boost. However NZF have to devote time and resources on the ASBP to help it lift it's game. The indifference shown by NZF's management towards its showcase national league to date has been scandalous.

Don't share your anti-Aussie sentiments, I actually like watching the A League and admire what has been achieved there.

I don't think there will ever be an ACFC in the A league because it would require a big step-up in financing and would take ACFC out of the O League, which is its primary focus. I don't rule out another go at an Auckland A League franchise however but that would require someone with deep pockets. It would also hurt interest in ACFC but the club's base is solid enough to survive.

Acfc v canty - kiwitea st - Sunday - 2pm. Do it... Go on you know you want to. NZ football at its best.