It's impossible to have both games. Fifa regs say...
" Representative teams shall play the two matches within an international window on the territory of the same confederation, with the only exception of inter-continental play-off matches. If at least one of the two matches is a friendly, they can be played in two different confederations only if the distance between the venues does not exceed a total of five flight hours, according to the official schedule of the airline, and two time-zones."
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
Trophy has a great history. But Socceroos being in AFC have a very congested calendar. Then when they do have space for friendlies, FA want them playing top tier teams like Ecuador, Uruguay or England (who they play at Wembley in October).
There is absolutely no chance the Socceroos play All Whites annually. Not even close. There were Aussie football pundits last year saying they shouldn't have played the AWs as it was poor prep for the World Cup. Earlier Sky Stadium offered itself for free, for a charity (Aussie Fire appeal) Aus verus NZ match and nothing happened.
You want to make it annual or biennial put it up for Womens internationals, or U20s/U23s. Or an ALM Australia selection verus ALM NZ selection, a week after the ALM grand final, or 2-3 weeks before ALM kicks off.
Trophy has a great history. But Socceroos being in AFC have a very congested calendar. Then when they do have space for friendlies, FA want them playing top tier teams like Ecuador, Uruguay or England (who they play at Wembley in October).
There is absolutely no chance the Socceroos play All Whites annually. Not even close. There were Aussie football pundits last year saying they shouldn't have played the AWs as it was poor prep for the World Cup. Earlier Sky Stadium offered itself for free, for a charity (Aussie Fire appeal) Aus verus NZ match and nothing happened.
You want to make it annual or biennial put it up for Womens internationals, or U20s/U23s.
The only way of getting close to annual fixtures would be to have games outside of the window, worked around the A League off season - or maybe somehow incorporated into a wider 'grand final buildup week'. That would restrict it to only players based locally, but otherwise I can't see it happening with any sort of regularity.
It'd obviously be great for us, because we don't get many home games/games in a non-4am time-zone, or many games against quality opposition.
Mexico and the US are quite accustomed to playing outside windows, they played each other in Arizona a couple days ago even. It means picking a squad weaker than usual, but so what? I don't think anyone has ever complained about too many All Whites games. Could even invite a couple island teams too and have a quadrangular tournament.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
It's really all just dependent on whether the FA could be bothered. It would need to stand up financially, but yes if it could be somehow built around the Grand Final (either pre or prior) there might be a window, for even 2 games H&A.
A League All Stars played last year against Barca, a few days prior the GF from memory. And then any game(s) would need to happen pre the June FIFA window. Or you change tact & put it somewhere in the ALM preseason, say in September.
But if Pragnell thinks he can convince the FA to make it an annual full strength Socceroos v AWs fixture he's in dreamland, and really out of touch with how the international football scene works. Which I already sometimes wonder if he is.
Elliot has got big pockets imo. Plenty of room for Swedish forwards.
Any All White who can put in a decent shift against Isak, in the form he's in, will definitely get noticed - as good as reason as any for our men to up their game.
Those Oct/Nov windows are awhile away but has gone pretty quiet on Pragnell's promise of AWs playing every window this year bar Sept. Seems that with the UEFA teams is only a small number that have a bye game (like Sweden) and then ain't already committed to a friendly elsewhere.
2nd game in June to be more 'winnable' than Sweden. And Wood's bad thigh injury was sustained with AWs in NZ, back in March. That won't have pleased Forest.
The All Whites’ match against Sweden in Stockholm will come days before their hosts take on Austria in a crucial Euro 2024 qualifier and will effectively be a free hit.
Their second fixture is likely to be more winnable, as it is believed to be against a team ranked outside the top 50 in the world by Fifa, but while Jordan had previously announced a match against New Zealand in Austria in June, it is understood it won’t be against them.
Chris Wood is expected to miss both fixtures, as he recovers from surgery on the injury he suffered to his right thigh while taking a penalty at the end of a training session during the last international window.
When Wood was ruled out for the rest of the English Premier League season by his Nottingham Forest boss, Steve Cooper, the prognosis was that he would be out beyond the June window: “It will be middle of pre-season, if we’re lucky, not the start. If it all goes well then we’re looking at mid-July”.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
I guess as good as any from the Stamenic thread: Oskar’s team.
lineup.png109.35 KB I guess I’d look to have Stamenic replace Boxy in the future? Or Stamenic and Boxy start.
I think Bell (and Lewis) like to operate deeper, too? And McCowatt has been playing in a midfield rather than out wide… Maybe DM Bell/Lewis/Rufer… RCM Garbett/McCowatt LCM Thomas/Singh Wood and Waine both start, with Just on the left? Or with two wingers Just and Rogerson?
Hard to know- because you don’t want Singh, Thomas and/or Garbett trying to operate in the same space.
I'd like Bazeley to experiment with Stamenic as the central CB in a back 3/5 against Sweden or in the second (more winnable) June friendly. It's early in the WC cycle when you experiment.
Again come 2026 that midfield could be very crowded, but the CB stocks thin. Stamenic probably needs to beef up abit to be a long term CB option. Be interesting to see where Red Star play him.
Some more from Flying Kiwis analysis of the Brondby verus FCK game on the weekend.
But you know who did play? Marko Stamenic. In order to match their opponents, who’d debuted the back three against them a couple weeks ago, FCK decided upon a central defensive trio of their own. Which in turn meant finding another central defender... and Marko Stamenic was the bloke they settled upon. He has played this role for the club in the past although never in a game of this magnitude with FCK seeking a return to the top of the table – at least until Nordsjælland’s game kicked off.
Turns out central defender Marko Stamenic isn’t too dissimilar to central defensive midfielder Marko Stamenic. He operated in the middle of the trio and his task was much more about sweeping and covering and being a passing option in the build-up while the two regular CBs were the ones tasked with stepping out and challenging for the ball. However he did step into quite a few square crosses to belt them to safety. He was tidy and he as assured. He was also absolutely fired up, despite the fact that he’s leaving soon. Big character, mate.
Copenhagen had very little possession and committed lots of fouls as the home side began much sharper. Stamenic shoved a bloke over in the corner as part of the aggressive trend (although that one wasn’t even a free kick). FCK picked up two yellows inside twenty mins (Claesson & Lund)... but they also scored a goal. Their first hint of an attack occurred in the 18th minute... and the early cross from Elias Jelert was met by the guiding head of Viktor Claesson. Expertly done. They then spent the rest of the half defending stoutly albeit without looking overly troubled.
That changed after the break, as things often do. Brøndby came at them with a bit more pace to their play and that paid off after 54 mins as they won themselves a penalty. FCK were furious about it, feeling that Peter Ankersen had won the ball with his sliding challenge. He did technically brush the ball first... but not cleanly and he also battered the player so VAR didn’t bother saying anything as Ohi Omoijuanfro sent the keeper the wrong way to tie the game up at one apiece.
It soon took a very good save to deny Mathias Kvistgaarden putting BIF into the lead. Luckily they also had Stamenic hacking loose ball after loose ball out of their penalty area... and then, against the run of play once more, they were finally able to string a few passes together and next thing Jordan Larsson had tapped in a low pass across goal to restore the Copenhagen lead on 73’.
Ten minutes later the pressure of the occasion finally boiled over in the form of a rough challenge from Daniel Wass, lunging in on an FCK player. The ref rushed over to separate players from butting chests.
Marko Stamenic must’ve made a 40 metre sprint to get in there and he was right in amongst the shoves as one of his teammates was pushed over. Eventually the smoke cleared and a red card popped up for Wass (fair enough, awful challenge) while yellows were also shown in the directions of Stamenic, one of the BIF dudes (the one who shoved a bloke over), and also someone on one of the benches.
Daniel Wass had been playing midfield so that might work out nicely for Joe Bell over the next couple weeks. Having said that, it’s Anis Ben Slimane who usually subs on for Wass and who also came on in his position after the red card here. Anyway, FCK scored again soon after the game resumed. Another Jelert cross (recovering after being on the wrong end of that tackle by Wass) headed in by Christian Sørensen. 3-1 was the final score after a fascinating and feisty game of football.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
Indeed will be interesting to see if Stamenic can do a job at CB for us, though I think it depends on whatever he establishes himself at club level as, don't want him trying to do both and potentially stop himself mastering either. I'd like to see if Rufer could transition there too, but based on Chiefy's comments that won't be happening this coming Nix season, sounds like the plan is a Rufer, Al Taay and Pennington midfield 3 supported by a promotion from the reserves for depth.
I think for the time being we need to stick with a back 4, I think we can count on a Boxall & (Pijnaker or Smith) pairing over the next year or two, to enable us to be able to play at least 3 of Garbett, Thomas, Bell, Stamenic and Lewis (I think Singh should be thought of more as a forward than midfielder). Then hopefully in that year or two the likes of Surman or Pijnaker or Stamenic or maybe others step up so that we can still have a functional back 4 after Boxall and Smith get too old. I'd rather we played to our strengths, rather than trying to compensate for our weakness in the CB position by shoehorning an additional average defender into our lineup at the expense of a much better midfielder.
Edit: I guess I completely forgot about Tuiloma but he has never really looked defensively solid/consistent enough to be a dependable international level CB, no matter how much he can bring with the rest of his game, though would love for him to prove me wrong.
Not a great look IMO considering Qatar's awful record on human rights and corruption, both of which are directly linked to football. Surely we could have organised to play someone else?
Hypocritical of NZ Football to criticise the reported Saudi Arabian sponsorship of the FIFA Women's World Cup but then to be organising to play Qatar who are just as bad if not worse.
Not a great look IMO considering Qatar's awful record on human rights and corruption, both of which are directly linked to football. Surely we could have organised to play someone else?
Hypocritical of NZ Football to criticise the reported Saudi Arabian sponsorship of the FIFA Women's World Cup but then to be organising to play Qatar who are just as bad if not worse.
The morals of both are yes questionable. Though whilst Qatar's human rights record is terrible, the continued involvement of Saudi in the Yemen Civil War is borderline horrific.
The All Whites have locked in AFC Asian Cup holders Qatar as their second opponent next month.
🇳🇿 v 🇸🇪 16 June 2023 (17 June NZT) Friends Arena, Stockholm
🇳🇿 v 🇶🇦 19 June 2023 (20 June NZT) Generali Arena, Vienna
— New Zealand Football 🇳🇿 (@NZ_Football) May 19, 2023
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
lthomas20
Not a great look IMO considering Qatar's awful record on human rights and corruption, both of which are directly linked to football. Surely we could have organised to play someone else?
Hypocritical of NZ Football to criticise the reported Saudi Arabian sponsorship of the FIFA Women's World Cup but then to be organising to play Qatar who are just as bad if not worse.
Take the matches and move on. We played China in the last window - Where was this kerfuffle then?
If we narrowed down the countries that we couldn't play because of human rights issues and corruption, we'd probably have to line up Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc in every window.
There is more of a chance of us switching confederations to UEFA than have that calibre of opponent line up to face us on the regular.
Not a great look IMO considering Qatar's awful record on human rights and corruption, both of which are directly linked to football. Surely we could have organised to play someone else?
Hypocritical of NZ Football to criticise the reported Saudi Arabian sponsorship of the FIFA Women's World Cup but then to be organising to play Qatar who are just as bad if not worse.
Take the matches and move on. We played China in the last window - Where was this kerfuffle then?
If we narrowed down the countries that we couldn't play because of human rights issues and corruption, we'd probably have to line up Sweden, Norway, Denmark etc in every window.
There would more of a chance of us switching confederations to UEFA than have that calibre of opponent line up to face us on the regular.
Chinas' abuses while utterly horrendous are not related to or the product of football. Same can be said for Saudi Arabia.
Qatars' corruption and bribery cast a long bloody stain on the game on football and hurt progress of the game, and also heralded in a terrible new age of successful sportswashing in football. More to the point - their hosting of the World Cup led to the deaths of thousands of deaths of workers, not to mention permanent injury to others, rape and egregious breaching of rights.
So no - I don't believe we should be condoning Qatars' actions in the football sphere by organising a friendly match against them. Surely we can find someone else to play...
Give it another 5 years... by then we will be cashed up and making more $$ especially with the Women's WC going to get the same amount of money as the men's.
Once that happens, I expect us to be a lot more aggressive in our pursuit of games and to actually growing the sport.
Argentina are several tiers above the All Whites, to be honest I reckon a game against them wouldn't be too great. Cool in theory but less so in practice. It'd probably play out similar to the USWNT game at Eden Park - defence vs attack, parking the bus barely getting a touch just trying to keep the score below 6, and that was with a a FFs side a lot higher ranked than the AWs. Add in being in Beijing you don't get either the cauldron Argentine away atmosphere or it being a home match in NZ.
Sweden and Qatar will still be a tough enough test. Probably won't end up being Sweden's first team, to quash any fears of Alexander Isak running at whoever, given they have a massive qualifier against top of the table Austria a couple days later, but they still have enough quality to leave out players from the 23 who would start for us. I mean the rankings gap is 78 places - same gap as NZ to St Vincent and the Grenadines. Qatar weren't great at the World Cup, but they had a tough group and two goal defeats to Ecuador, Senegal and the Netherlands aren't terrible. They are still Asian champions after all.
almost 3 years ago· edited almost 3 years ago· History
FYI - Just looking at Stamenic's Swedish team mates at FCK, in isolation. Stamenic (a squaddie at FCK) almost a locked in starter now for the AWs.
31 yr old midfielder Viktor Claesson has 12 goals this Danish Superliga season. He's got 64 senior Sweden caps.
17 yr old prodigy Roony Bardghji has 3 goals from midfield this season in the Superliga. Sweden U17s & U21s.
25 yr old Jordan Larsson. 3 goals in the Superliga this campaign. Ex Schalke. 5 caps for the National team. Good genes, being son of Henrik Larsson.
33 yr old keeper Karl-Johan Johnsson, with over 300 pro games in Sweden, Holland, France & Denmark. No 2 keeper at FCK (still 3 starts this season) now that Matt Ryan has left. Capped 8 times for Sweden over 10 years
All of these guys would yes make an AWs squad. So yeah Sweden will be tough enough.
Give it another 5 years... by then we will be cashed up and making more $$ especially with the Women's WC going to get the same amount of money as the men's.
Once that happens, I expect us to be a lot more aggressive in our pursuit of games and to actually growing the sport.
It’s possible that Women’s WC getting same money as Men’s WC means less money for Men’s WC. The money needs to come from somewhere, you can’t just make it magically appear.
Give it another 5 years... by then we will be cashed up and making more $$ especially with the Women's WC going to get the same amount of money as the men's.
Once that happens, I expect us to be a lot more aggressive in our pursuit of games and to actually growing the sport.
Is growing the objective? Does bigger make it better? Or do you mean something else by 'growing'? Legit question, not being facetious.
Give it another 5 years... by then we will be cashed up and making more $$ especially with the Women's WC going to get the same amount of money as the men's.
Once that happens, I expect us to be a lot more aggressive in our pursuit of games and to actually growing the sport.
Is growing the objective? Does bigger make it better? Or do you mean something else by 'growing'? Legit question, not being facetious.
To me it's more taking football in NZ to it's full potential. Which is 2 even 3 stable ALM clubs (Christchurch will soon have a new shiny roofed stadium after all), plus the Ferns and All Whites both playing 2-4 games at home every year. So even the non football sports followers become aware of NZ's best footballers. That and clear pathways for young NZ players, male & female to become the best they can be.
It's 'growth' to get the code to it's full yes limited potential, in a small country of only 5M people. At the moment the code is not operating at that level.
A lot of the above. Basically I think there is a lot of untapped potential in football in NZ, in part due to the restraints we have financially. Getting more money in will allow us to simply do more, which in turn generates more buzz, more media/attention etc etc. I personally think Football is a sleeping giant in this country - more kids know of Messi than McCaw.
Perhaps not apples with apples - Messi is still playing, Richie hasn’t played for how long?MetalLegNZ
A lot of the above. Basically I think there is a lot of untapped potential in football in NZ, in part due to the restraints we have financially. Getting more money in will allow us to simply do more, which in turn generates more buzz, more media/attention etc etc. I personally think Football is a sleeping giant in this country - more kids know of Messi than McCaw.
I'm looking forwards much more to the AW's qualifying for the next World Cup in North America now that FIFA have overturned their original decision to go with three team first round groups and have gone back to four team groups. 32 teams will advance to the second round as well, giving the AW's much more chance of going through. We would have gone through to the next round in South Africa under this format. I've just caught up with this: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/14/world-cup-2026-four-team-groups-104-game-tournament-approval-fifa
"World Cup 2026: four-team groups and 104 game-tournament confirmed by Fifa
- Extra 40 games will raise questions about player welfare
Four-match, 16-day international window to start in 2026
The 2026 World Cup finals in the United States, Canada and Mexico will feature a record 104 games, including a new last-32 stage, after Fifa scrapped its controversial plans for three-team groups.
The extended 48-team tournament will run for 38 or 39 days – instead of 32 in Qatar – and consist of 12 groups of four, with the top two and the eight best third-placed sides progressing to the knockout stages. There will be 40 more matches than were played at Qatar 2022, raising fresh concerns about player welfare."
I'm looking forwards much more to the AW's qualifying for the next World Cup in North America now that FIFA have overturned their original decision to go with three team first round groups and have gone back to four team groups. 32 teams will advance to the second round as well, giving the AW's much more chance of going through. We would have gone through to the next round in South Africa under this format. I've just caught up with this: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/14/world-cup-2026-four-team-groups-104-game-tournament-approval-fifa
"World Cup 2026: four-team groups and 104 game-tournament confirmed by Fifa
- Extra 40 games will raise questions about player welfare
Four-match, 16-day international window to start in 2026
The 2026 World Cup finals in the United States, Canada and Mexico will feature a record 104 games, including a new last-32 stage, after Fifa scrapped its controversial plans for three-team groups.
The extended 48-team tournament will run for 38 or 39 days – instead of 32 in Qatar – and consist of 12 groups of four, with the top two and the eight best third-placed sides progressing to the knockout stages. There will be 40 more matches than were played at Qatar 2022, raising fresh concerns about player welfare."
At the last World Cup, 4 teams played 7 matches. Only 4 teams will play 8 matches, but have up to 6 extra days to play that extra match. That’s less onerous than a EPL side through march if still in Europe and FA cup. No other team will play more than 7 matches in the competition.
Still don’t agree with a 48 team WC though. The whole 3rd best in a group of 4 going through is a) inherently unfair, and b) just not the spirit of cup football.
Congrats NZF, well done to convince the FA to play us again so soon. Loftus Road? Might be more a 2nd eleven Socceroos, as for sure they are going to run out their top team at Wembley 4 days prior.
The match will be played in London four days after the Socceroos play England at Wembley Stadium.
NZ Football is still weighing up whether to arrange a friendly of their own for the first half of the October window.
