All Whites v Socceroos | Sun 25th Sept | 4.00pm | Eden Park | Morningside Tavern

I often read through threads in this forum as I'm a big Nix and All Whites fan and can't get enough content about either, but hadn't felt compelled to make an account and post myself until now. But I was wondering what everyone thought about the use of a 5 at the back formation in these games. I think unless you have amazing central midfielders and TWO fantastic overlapping fullbacks (we have one), it will always be a cautious and defensive formation, and will hinder midfield control and attacking play. I can understand the use of it in backs to the wall games against superior opposition where there is a lot riding on the result. But today of all games, at home, a friendly, with a big crowd to entertain, against a second string Australian side (whose first team are not world-beaters)? And to add insult to injury, when we fell behind, we only made like for like subs, surely it would have made more sense to sacrifice tuiloma or Payne earlier for another attacker or midfielder.

I recall how good we looked playing 443 at the Des u20 WC, and at times under Hay at the Olympics (we played both formations there and I always thought we looked much better playing 4 at the back). I understand we had some decent forwards and attacking midfielders unavailable this window, but looking forward, how are we gonna fit in all or even most of Singh, garbett, stamenic, bell, Thomas, wood, just (and/or grieve & waine if they fulfill the potential I think they have) in a lineup going forward if we have to have 5 defenders on the pitch, most of whom are fairly average (apart from Libby) now that Reid is done and once smith & boxall are done? 

Anyway I could talk for hours about this, interested to hear the thoughts of others. 

I forgot to include lewis and Rojas in the list of midfielders and attackers who I think should be getting on the pitch for the all whites 

braces

Was really disappointing, not because of the nepotism but because Hay keeps selecting players that aren't performing or being selected for their club teams. Not playing at their best but going through the motions. The tactics just don't work.
There are plenty of talent playing across the world who will never get a look in.
Get away from the Ole/Suburbs, Hay & Wintersgirl.

Is there though?  Is there really a bunch of players more talented and capable than the current group (even with Singh and Thomas absent)?  Like I'm not being facetious, I am seriously curious -is there "plenty of talent playing across the world" better than the guys with EPL, Serie A and Bundesliga clubs?  I know Hudson gave chances to a swathe of players, not sure any proved to be massively better than what there was.  I'm the biggest fan of a dark horse emerging from the fringes, but I am genuinely curious if there are options who are demonstrably better than the group we currently have?  Because isn't this, on the whole, the group that did so well with Buckingham??  There may be some talented youngsters coming through (and we have a habit of over-promoting them based on junior achievements), but are there actually international quality players, playing regular first team football in professional environments, ready to step up for our national team?  I'm not being a d***, I'm asking genuinely. 

Lewis is injured.

martinb

Lewis is injured.

was this in response to me? I understand lewis was unavailable through injury, I was mentioning him in the context of looking into the future and fitting in all of our good midfielders and attackers into the team if we were still playing a back 5, hence my qualifier "I understand we had some decent forwards and attacking midfielders unavailable this window" before listing all of those players that we'd struggle to accommodate if we continue to use this formation  

imanixsupporter

I often read through threads in this forum as I'm a big Nix and All Whites fan and can't get enough content about either, but hadn't felt compelled to make an account and post myself until now. But I was wondering what everyone thought about the use of a 5 at the back formation in these games. I think unless you have amazing central midfielders and TWO fantastic overlapping fullbacks (we have one), it will always be a cautious and defensive formation, and will hinder midfield control and attacking play. I can understand the use of it in backs to the wall games against superior opposition where there is a lot riding on the result. But today of all games, at home, a friendly, with a big crowd to entertain, against a second string Australian side (whose first team are not world-beaters)? And to add insult to injury, when we fell behind, we only made like for like subs, surely it would have made more sense to sacrifice tuiloma or Payne earlier for another attacker or midfielder.

I recall how good we looked playing 443 at the Des u20 WC, and at times under Hay at the Olympics (we played both formations there and I always thought we looked much better playing 4 at the back). I understand we had some decent forwards and attacking midfielders unavailable this window, but looking forward, how are we gonna fit in all or even most of Singh, garbett, stamenic, bell, Thomas, wood, just (and/or grieve & waine if they fulfill the potential I think they have) in a lineup going forward if we have to have 5 defenders on the pitch, most of whom are fairly average (apart from Libby) now that Reid is done and once smith & boxall are done? 

Anyway I could talk for hours about this, interested to hear the thoughts of others. 

I think you will find 4 4 3 is not a formation and one more player then allowed

I haven’t seen enough of old at the nix but this year have sky so plan to do so. Is it my imagination however or does he seriously lack pace?

AucklandPhoenix

imanixsupporter

I often read through threads in this forum as I'm a big Nix and All Whites fan and can't get enough content about either, but hadn't felt compelled to make an account and post myself until now. But I was wondering what everyone thought about the use of a 5 at the back formation in these games. I think unless you have amazing central midfielders and TWO fantastic overlapping fullbacks (we have one), it will always be a cautious and defensive formation, and will hinder midfield control and attacking play. I can understand the use of it in backs to the wall games against superior opposition where there is a lot riding on the result. But today of all games, at home, a friendly, with a big crowd to entertain, against a second string Australian side (whose first team are not world-beaters)? And to add insult to injury, when we fell behind, we only made like for like subs, surely it would have made more sense to sacrifice tuiloma or Payne earlier for another attacker or midfielder.

I recall how good we looked playing 443 at the Des u20 WC, and at times under Hay at the Olympics (we played both formations there and I always thought we looked much better playing 4 at the back). I understand we had some decent forwards and attacking midfielders unavailable this window, but looking forward, how are we gonna fit in all or even most of Singh, garbett, stamenic, bell, Thomas, wood, just (and/or grieve & waine if they fulfill the potential I think they have) in a lineup going forward if we have to have 5 defenders on the pitch, most of whom are fairly average (apart from Libby) now that Reid is done and once smith & boxall are done? 

Anyway I could talk for hours about this, interested to hear the thoughts of others. 

I think you will find 4 4 3 is not a formation and one more player then allowed

Oops, that was a typo. 4-3-3

Sign Des, bring everyone back to full fitness, play an XI that looks a bit like one of these possibilities.

73345C05-4D2A-4882-8114-553DD38F0F78.jpeg 484.94 KB

Would be massive if we still had the likes of Boyd (can play an actual RW), Thomas (our biggest game changer) and Stensness (arguably better than Pijnaker), but we’ve still got a good squad, would just be nice to have a better RB, more AM/Winger options and a high level CB.

I don’t get all the Pijnaker  love. Has played poorly for the all whites in recent times. Boxall is a much better player, experienced  and playing at a much higher level.

Ditto Sail and Stefan, but league level likely closer

AucklandPhoenix

I don’t get all the Pijanker live. Boxall is a much better player and playing at a much higher level.

Boxall is also 34 and rarely gets released by his club. I’m not super happy with Pijnaker at the moment but we really don’t have many other options. Would’ve liked to see what Kyle Adams can do considering he’s a lefty as well.

The thing about 5 at the back formations is that they should allow us to get the best out of Cacace, who is probably our second best player at the moment, and if utilised correctly can be a game-changer. I would be interested to see him played as LM in a 4-2-3-1 formation, something like, 

             Wood
   Cacace Just Singh 
       Bell Stamenic
Sutton Boxall Tuiloma Kirwan 
            Marinovic 

Khalil Media

braces

Was really disappointing, not because of the nepotism but because Hay keeps selecting players that aren't performing or being selected for their club teams. Not playing at their best but going through the motions. The tactics just don't work.
There are plenty of talent playing across the world who will never get a look in.
Get away from the Ole/Suburbs, Hay & Wintersgirl.

Is there though?  Is there really a bunch of players more talented and capable than the current group (even with Singh and Thomas absent)?  Like I'm not being facetious, I am seriously curious -is there "plenty of talent playing across the world" better than the guys with EPL, Serie A and Bundesliga clubs?  I know Hudson gave chances to a swathe of players, not sure any proved to be massively better than what there was.  I'm the biggest fan of a dark horse emerging from the fringes, but I am genuinely curious if there are options who are demonstrably better than the group we currently have?  Because isn't this, on the whole, the group that did so well with Buckingham??  There may be some talented youngsters coming through (and we have a habit of over-promoting them based on junior achievements), but are there actually international quality players, playing regular first team football in professional environments, ready to step up for our national team?  I'm not being a d***, I'm asking genuinely. 

There are none really. 
Obviously Singh, Thomas, Lewis, Smith (may retire), de Vries, Kirwan & Marinovic all come back into AWs frame when fit & available.

As mentioned elsewhere Jack Iredale at Bolton, could be eligible for the AWs, but I think he's stated a desire to try play for the Socceroos.

Calvin Harris I don't think is eligible, but he'd be a great pickup if he was.

No one else at all can think of, that could come straight into the AWs setup and make a difference. I don't think many are critcising Hay for the squads he's selecting - one blessing he has (or had) picking from a small pool of pro players.

Lets hope the U20s go well at next years WC in Indonesia, and that launches a few careers.

Khalil Media

braces

Was really disappointing, not because of the nepotism but because Hay keeps selecting players that aren't performing or being selected for their club teams. Not playing at their best but going through the motions. The tactics just don't work.
There are plenty of talent playing across the world who will never get a look in.
Get away from the Ole/Suburbs, Hay & Wintersgirl.

Is there though?  Is there really a bunch of players more talented and capable than the current group (even with Singh and Thomas absent)?  Like I'm not being facetious, I am seriously curious -is there "plenty of talent playing across the world" better than the guys with EPL, Serie A and Bundesliga clubs?  I know Hudson gave chances to a swathe of players, not sure any proved to be massively better than what there was.  I'm the biggest fan of a dark horse emerging from the fringes, but I am genuinely curious if there are options who are demonstrably better than the group we currently have?  Because isn't this, on the whole, the group that did so well with Buckingham??  There may be some talented youngsters coming through (and we have a habit of over-promoting them based on junior achievements), but are there actually international quality players, playing regular first team football in professional environments, ready to step up for our national team?  I'm not being a d***, I'm asking genuinely. 

There are none really. 
Obviously Singh, Thomas, Lewis, Smith (may retire), de Vries, Kirwan & Marinovic all come back into AWs frame when fit & available.

As mentioned elsewhere Jack Iredale at Bolton, could be eligible for the AWs, but I think he's stated a desire to try play for the Socceroos.

Calvin Harris I don't think is eligible, but he'd be a great pickup if he was.

No one else at all can think of, that could come straight into the AWs setup and make a difference. I don't think many are critcising Hay for the squads he's selecting - one blessing he has (or had) picking from a small pool of pro players.

Lets hope the U20s go well at next years WC in Indonesia, and that launches a few careers.

AucklandPhoenix

I don’t get all the Pijnaker  love. Has played poorly for the all whites in recent times. Boxall is a much better player, experienced  and playing at a much higher level.

Ditto Sail and Stefan, but league level likely closer

Pijnaker is still really young and has heaps to develop, it would be great if he could still be learning and deveoping as a sub but he's probably the best young centre back we have, barring Surman and he's doing his time in the under 20's. As mentioned abouve our current stock of CB's are mainly over 30 we need to bring in our younger guys and get them gametime.
This squad is very young, and like Hay, Wood and many others have said they need to be playing at every opportunity - and not jys beating up on Pacific island nations. Home games over the coming years are going to e crucial, finding those could be tough. 
Bell - underperformed in the last two games, he looked off the pace and struggled
The other midfielders really hammered home their spots, Garbett looked really good, Wood needs someone up front with him, I think his days leading the line by himself and beating defenders are gone. He holds the ball well but needs someone running off him, like a Grieve, or Singh. The future is looking pretty good, assuming we play toour strengths and I dont think Hay is the coach to do this, he doesnt really seem to know how to get the best out of this group.
I dont know who is around or who wants the job but if DEs is the man we need to get him here immediately and give him the time to get his group together. I really dislike the 5-4-1 shape we have adopted. On the team sheet it reads as 3-4-3 nut in reality the wing backs rarely get foward and the wingers sit in the midfield. I'd rather we had 4 at the back and went 4-3-3 or 3-5-2.

Garbett definitely deserves to be making his Torino debut for how well he's played throughout these two friendlies.

I'm not angry, just disappointed.

I can't be angry that Payne is shark. He just is. He tries really, really hard - but he's not good enough. Not good enough as a midfielder, not good enough as a central defender, not good enough as a full back or wingback. The only reason I didn't self-immolate when I saw him start was that petrol is very expensive.

I can't be angry that Pijnaker cannot pass the ball accurately. He hasn't done so in any match I have seen, so why would he now?

I can't be angry that Tuiloma is beyond average. I can't be mad that every single one of his free kicks is a danger to the Australians shins. As it always was, so shall it always be.

I can't be mad that Garbett runs around a lot, but is always on the periphery.....like a modern day Leigh Kenyon. I know he must be good as he is with a Serie A club, but deary me.....every game is the same - he does nothing when on the ball.

I can't even be mad that Bell and Stamenic were AWOL yesterday - they are young, and international football is an unforgiving environment. I can't even be mad that every single corner Bell takes is atrocious.

I'm not even mad that Grieve offers energy and endeavor, but absolutely no control or guile. Again, every other game is a track record. Or that Ben Old played - another player who shouldn't be near the team.

What I CAN be mad about is.....
Sail's ability to distribute the ball is worse - somehow worse - that Marinovic's. Every kick was wayward, every throw was lobbed rather than arrowed.....any report of him catching the eye of anyone in the UK is waaaaay of the mark.

I can be mad that Cacace seems to think that 6/10 effort-wise is ok - even in the WCQ vs Costa Rica.

I can be mad that Just was taken off. He was our only decent player in the first half - it was Just and 10 average plodders.

I can be mad that we insist of playing 5-3-2, yet don't really have the players for it. We don't have 3 good centre backs, so playing 3 centre backs only means we have 3 shark players on the field. We have good wingers, so why not go 4-5-1? Or even try inverted full backs - so Cacace on the right, Ingham/Roux on the left? Try something.

I am mad that Sideshow Bob didn't get on. OK, he might not be good enough, and international football is international football - but he flew over from the States, and got nothing. Chuck him 5 mins at the end of the match for Nando's or Tuiloma. 

I can be mad that we don't let someone else kick the ball when it's stationary - Just or Stamenic or ANYONE who isn't Tuiloma or Bell. 

We can't be upset that we were outplayed - Australia are better than us. Much better. What we can realistically be pissed about is that we rolled over and let our tummies be rubbed, there wasn't much inspiration coming from the bench.

On that, in both this match and the Costa Rica match, we were abysmal in the second half - what message is being said at half-time?

Just was really good in the first half, Waine pretty good in the second.....Eden Park touted itself as a cashless venue, yet programmes were $10 cash only. 

Rusty Dunks

I'm not angry, just disappointed.

I can't be angry that Payne is shark. He just is. He tries really, really hard - but he's not good enough. Not good enough as a midfielder, not good enough as a central defender, not good enough as a full back or wingback. The only reason I didn't self-immolate when I saw him start was that petrol is very expensive.

I can't be angry that Pijnaker cannot pass the ball accurately. He hasn't done so in any match I have seen, so why would he now?

I can't be angry that Tuiloma is beyond average. I can't be mad that every single one of his free kicks is a danger to the Australians shins. As it always was, so shall it always be.

I can't be mad that Garbett runs around a lot, but is always on the periphery.....like a modern day Leigh Kenyon. I know he must be good as he is with a Serie A club, but deary me.....every game is the same - he does nothing when on the ball.

I can't even be mad that Bell and Stamenic were AWOL yesterday - they are young, and international football is an unforgiving environment. I can't even be mad that every single corner Bell takes is atrocious.

I'm not even mad that Grieve offers energy and endeavor, but absolutely no control or guile. Again, every other game is a track record. Or that Ben Old played - another player who shouldn't be near the team.

What I CAN be mad about is.....
Sail's ability to distribute the ball is worse - somehow worse - that Marinovic's. Every kick was wayward, every throw was lobbed rather than arrowed.....any report of him catching the eye of anyone in the UK is waaaaay of the mark.

I can be mad that Cacace seems to think that 6/10 effort-wise is ok - even in the WCQ vs Costa Rica.

I can be mad that Just was taken off. He was our only decent player in the first half - it was Just and 10 average plodders.

I can be mad that we insist of playing 5-3-2, yet don't really have the players for it. We don't have 3 good centre backs, so playing 3 centre backs only means we have 3 shark players on the field. We have good wingers, so why not go 4-5-1? Or even try inverted full backs - so Cacace on the right, Ingham/Roux on the left? Try something.

I am mad that Sideshow Bob didn't get on. OK, he might not be good enough, and international football is international football - but he flew over from the States, and got nothing. Chuck him 5 mins at the end of the match for Nando's or Tuiloma. 

I can be mad that we don't let someone else kick the ball when it's stationary - Just or Stamenic or ANYONE who isn't Tuiloma or Bell. 

We can't be upset that we were outplayed - Australia are better than us. Much better. What we can realistically be pissed about is that we rolled over and let our tummies be rubbed, there wasn't much inspiration coming from the bench.

On that, in both this match and the Costa Rica match, we were abysmal in the second half - what message is being said at half-time?

Just was really good in the first half, Waine pretty good in the second.....Eden Park touted itself as a cashless venue, yet programmes were $10 cash only. 

Congratulations on spelling "stationary" correctly; not too keen on the rest of the rant though.

austin111

Really disappointed with that game. Seems like same old problems stalk NZF. No money, no preparation, no viable program for the AW,s, no culture for improvement. It all just seems so amateur. The poor AW fans have to put up with the same lack of direction every year. As much as I support the AWs it seems undeserving that they will qualify directly for future World Cups simply by beating a bunch of teams from coral atolls. I would rather they had a proper program of regular matches than being cannon fodder at the WC.

now oceania has a full  berth  for wc

for me    NZ  MUST BE  for next match  

-.------------------MARINOVIC-----------------------

        ROUX       BOXALL  TUILOMA   PIJNAKER/DE VRIES 

       GARBETT      BELL  STAMENIC    CACACE 

                       WOOD           GREIVE   

Doloras

Let's all remember that there was also the idea that we'd have an AFL franchise in Wellington

Thank the good Lord that didn't happen.

NZ needs experience at the back   and  the midfield of those 4 is ok, up front someone more  
Champness must return to the team as  for  other players too,  Just  and De Jong,  who i thought was good in australia , are  an option from the bench.

from the rb  players  from the bunch I think Roux is the better  from kirwan payne and the other fellow.   the good thing about that line up is they can switch formations depending on

Ryan Thomas,  Rojas and Singh are very important as for Lewis for option with rufer and old ,  maybe bring another young centerback,  and waine and another young 9  that you have there at wellington  with a french surname.  that frenchie  kid seems class above  

from now i would give the gloves to marinovic

kwlap

Lewis is out injured. Hope it isn’t anything serious

It's nothing serious for the team

JAVIER16

Their 10 The Touluñuse playmaker has been invisible so far

I disagree.  Sharke is always visible.  He has been that for them.

nufc_nz

Bell ain’t up to it. Just was out beat player and been subbed.

Hay has to go tbh. We haven’t score in how many games now?

I think Bell has been out there trying hard as always.
Totally agree that Hay has to go.  This group has the potential to be the greatest  NZ team to date yet Hay has achieved nothing with them, except waste precious resources.

Jtoml3

nufc_nz

Bell ain’t up to it. Just was out beat player and been subbed.

Hay has to go tbh. We haven’t score in how many games now?

I don't think Hay will be renewing his contract. 

Hopefully he is not given the chance to.  But NZF were stupid enough to put him there to start...

Np

I think the fact is at the sum of everything we are not better than the Aussies 

Certainly not if one includes the coaches in the equation.  I believe the players have the potential to do a lot better.

siac

We missed Lewis quite a lot I reckon. Midfield didn't look particularly match fit to be playing so many minutes over 4 days.

I didn't miss Lewis.  We missed a medal at the Olympics because of Lewis.  He was hopeless throughout that tournament.
For whatever reason he is unable to take that next step up to Internationals in my view.

dunnix

For all the crap Joe Bell got in the comments, Pijnaker was a LOT worse.  Reminded me of a baby deer on ice every time he got the ball.

Should’ve been hooked for Boxall at HT

I thought he was okay, but he needs a lot of work to get up to standard.  Perhaps goes better in a back four, though appears to be second choice at lowly Sligo.

Rock Hopper

What a strange nosedive to end danny hays tenure. There was so much hope and promise 4-5 months ago. But possession is all well and good but if there's no goal scoring instinct it's not going to cut it. 

Oh well see you all again in 2026 at sky stadium where no doubt we face off against Urugauy in an anticlimactic return home on the back of a 0-4 aggregate after slipping on a banana skin against Tahiti a few months prior

A predictable nosedive I thought.

coochiee

Crowd 34,985.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/129989684/all-whites-star-chris-wood-says-it-would-be-silly-if-danny-hay-isnt-kept-on-as-coach

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/129986115/all-whites-lose-to-socceroos-in-captain-winston-reids-farewell-from-international-football

Third-largest football attendance in New Zealand history, after the World Cup playoff draw with Peru in 2017 (37,034) and the World Cup playoff win over Bahrain in 2009 (35,179).

The big picture
NZ Football chief executive Andrew Pragnell has pledged to have the All Whites home at least once a year going forward, which is a promise that will take some work to keep, but worth it when you get a crowd like Sunday’s. There’s also now the matter of whether Hay will be continuing as coach heading into a new World Cup cycle.

Yes well.... Perhaps Pragnall should go before Hay.   
As for silliness, that has been NZF's specialty of late.

JasperNix

Napier Phoenix

Simply put, Aussie pressed where we did not (unlike in Brisbane) and that put pressure on our backline and goalkeeper. Sail probably the most at fault there as his touch and kicking was Northern League Division 4 standard. We also tended to play it across the back 3 too much rather than getting the ball forward to our midfield. There was a period in the middle of the 1st half where we did that and were more successful. With our attack, it’s the same situation Wood has at Newcastle. At NUFC they don’t play to his strength (because of an abundance of other attack weapons) and so he is not scoring goals. Compare that to his time at Burnley where they were set up for him and his striking partner. On that note, Grieve should start up front with him, he was very good when he came on, showed a bit of grit and I think would make more space for Wood to operate as he does best. 

Really disappointed with the game, a lot (but not all) because I actually expected us to beat this team and we just didn’t front up.

Agree 100%. I was expecting us to step up from Thursday and smash these guys with intensity and pace and endeavour. Instead that was laboured, timid and left the crowd bored. I was pumped for this match and enjoyed the first half but the guys didn’t 1) go out and enjoy and express themselves or 2) go and kill them so I’m not sure what the half time team talk was. 

The technical area was very flat. No energy. Seemed content to go through the motions. I was sitting behind them and it left me really frustrated to be honest. 

That's the History of Hay.  He seems incapable of any positive drive for the lads, let alone the ability to manage of change plans to cope with issues on the pitch.
In summary, Hay's clueless.

Genuine questions for the Hay critics - if he goes, who does NZ get in that's better? 

No competitive games until 2024 remember. 

I'm open to the idea of him going but not too keen on the possible replacements. The best coaches domestically atm (probably talking Bazeley, Riera, Jose Figuera, Scott Hales, etc.) aren't up to the level of managing the All Whites, but the foreign options we are able to attract may be obscure, won't know the NZ scene and not very good either (like Hudson and Fritz Schmid). Unless there are any Aussies we think we could make a play for?

lthomas20

Genuine questions for the Hay critics - if he goes, who does NZ get in that's better? 

No competitive games until 2024 remember. 

I'm open to the idea of him going but not too keen on the possible replacements. The best coaches domestically atm (probably talking Bazeley, Riera, Jose Figuera, Scott Hales, etc.) aren't up to the level of managing the All Whites, but the foreign options we are able to attract may be obscure, won't know the NZ scene and not very good either (like Hudson and Fritz Schmid). Unless there are any Aussies we think we could make a play for?

Des is the best and most obvious choice, that is if we can convince him to come back after  unceremoniously dumping him for Hay. He did wonders with our U20s and a good 2/3rds of our senior team were in that crop. If we can’t get him back then it’s a real tough one, could try Ramon or (extremely unlikely) snag Uffie.

Des is 100% the best choice if we can get him though, that man put more effort into his last stint with us than Herbert, Hudson, Schmid and Hay combined.

That 2nd half yesterday was awful, and worst performance under Hay, since international football restarted last year.

Otherwise since the Olympics it's been mostly an upward trend.

Olywhites knocked out in Tokyo on pens to host Japan in QF
3 good AWs wins over non OFC teams (plus Algeria 'A') Oct-Nov windows last year. Worth noting Singh was playing.
A dip with a loss to Jordan in Jan window. Many players out of season, a Woud howler & first glimpse at AWs sans Singh
Winning OFC Tourney in March conceding only 1 goal, 5 wins from 5 games.
A pass mark against Peru, overcoming early stage fright to produce a good 2nd half in the first game against a real top level side, with fans present for years. Sail & Payne communicate better, or Waine stays onside & maybe it's a draw.
Then the big big game against Costa Rica when with about 70% possession, the AWs were very unlucky to lose.

Look maybe Buckingham is a better coach than Hay, I don't really have an opinion. Senior player, and captain going foward the Woodsman, rates Hay - and is not in favour of letting him go. Wood didn't have to say that.

Certainly yes Des was treatly poorly by NZF, and Hay maybe even undermined him, who knows. But now Des is a City Group Football employee, why would he give that up for likely a drop in salary to coach a team, that could barely play over the next 1-2 years.

So NZF get a new coach in now, and some of the forward momentum over the last 12 mths could be lost.

For these Socceroos games, the AWs literally had 2-4 training sessions in total. It would be the same for the next few years up to 2024 Nations Cup (if it happens) - when you might get the team together for 3 weeks. The limited time in a normal FIFA window is next to useless for entrenching a game plan, philsophy etc.

But I think Hay is gone anyway. Likely for things it seems away from the pitch. The fact no one at NZF has spoken to him about a new contract is telltale. In Peru post their playoff loss, there was huge angst as the whole nation pleaded for the much beloved coach Ricardo Gareca to stay. But despite being on $USD3.7M per year, he couldn't agree new terms with the Peru FA! Yet he basically didn't get his team much closer to the WC than what Hay did.

But yeah don't expect NZF with their paupers funds, to sign any supercoach any time soon. I did see that someone spotted Ernie Merrick on their plane!

 

an unemployed a-league coach is our best option and would probably be a significant step up from hay. 

Ernie Merrick is employed by the Australian FA

coochiee

That 2nd half yesterday was awful, and worst performance under Hay, since international football restarted last year.

Otherwise since the Olympics it's been mostly an upward trend.

Olywhites knocked out in Tokyo on pens to host Japan in QF
3 good AWs wins over non OFC teams (plus Algeria 'A') Oct-Nov windows last year. Worth noting Singh was playing.
A dip with a loss to Jordan in Jan window. Many players out of season, a Woud howler & first glimpse at AWs sans Singh
Winning OFC Tourney in March conceding only 1 goal, 5 wins from 5 games.
A pass mark against Peru, overcoming early stage fright to produce a good 2nd half in the first game against a real top level side, with fans present for years. Sail & Payne communicate better, or Waine stays onside & maybe it's a draw.
Then the big big game against Costa Rica when with about 70% possession, the AWs were very unlucky to lose.

Look maybe Buckingham is a better coach than Hay, I don't really have an opinion. Senior player, and captain going foward the Woodsman, rates Hay - and is not in favour of letting him go. Wood didn't have to say that.

Certainly yes Des was treatly poorly by NZF, and Hay maybe even undermined him, who knows. But now Des is a City Group Football employee, why would he give that up for likely a drop in salary to coach a team, that could barely play over the next 1-2 years.

So NZF get a new coach in now, and some of the forward momentum over the last 12 mths could be lost.

For these Socceroos games, the AWs literally had 2-4 training sessions in total. It would be the same for the next few years up to 2024 Nations Cup (if it happens) - when you might get the team together for 3 weeks. The limited time in a normal FIFA window is next to useless for entrenching a game plan, philsophy etc.

But I think Hay is gone anyway. Likely for things it seems away from the pitch. The fact no one at NZF has spoken to him about a new contract is telltale. In Peru post their playoff loss, there was huge angst as the whole nation pleaded for the much beloved coach Ricardo Gareca to stay. But despite being on $USD3.7M per year, he couldn't agree new terms with the Peru FA! Yet he basically didn't get his team much closer to the WC than what Hay did.

But yeah don't expect NZF with their paupers funds, to sign any supercoach any time soon. I did see that someone spotted Ernie Merrick on their plane!

 

But coaching an international team might be an exciting challenge for Ernie, at his age. One thing that he hasn't done in his career.

Out of curiosity ex NZF Technical Director Rob Shearman I see is back in NZ (working for OFC). He might have worked with Merrick at Football Australia.

Ernie would be great. I like his playing style.

The minimum that I expect from our national team coach is to have the team well organised, to have a plan for obtaining possession, a plan for scoring goals. and to be able to make simple and logical adjustments when required.

I'm not sure if hay ticks any of these boxes. 

It was astonishing that he dropped a DM in front of a back five when chasing he game. And yes, it was a back five, not a three.