All Whites v Spain at Confeds Cup

But you do need lessons in the art of summarising information.

Ta, ok I bolded the points in the post now.

It's hard to summarize any other way because people would then ask me too much questions why and it gets hard repeating myself and justifying with a series of posts when people don't read everything.

But yes I have to summarize or I do lose track myself after read my post again and again

I was going to read your post AWB, but I decided to go for a quicker read and picked up War And Peace instead.

I thought that the only three players who looked like the could compete at that level was Killen, Smeltz and Bertos.

disagree. Elliott was prob our best. Only one who COULD find feet with passes (not every time but at least he was trying to control the game). But then again we always seem to have this disagreement.

Also agree with most of this. Elliott was my pick for best player, thought Vicelich looked out of place once or twice, but generally solid. I thought Mulligan was better than your rating. Boyens struggled, (but he was marking Torres), and his error for the 5th goal was worthy of a Phoenix contract .

With Brockie's subbing off, I was reminded of the Adelaide-Phoenix game from earlier in the year, where someone pointed out that the defence looked bad because the midfield weren't giving support. His failure to follow Capdevila's run before Fabregas' goal was a good example.

Whether the improvement that followed was due to Christie's presence or the Spanish relaxing is up for debate.   

Actually Killen, Smeltz, Elliot and Moss are capable to be solid but not magnificant. Moss was our best despite the scoreline and goal kicks distribution. IMHO, not much to really ask after the pressure he was under from his weak defence. Elliot was near, thereabouts.

The others are not in the running including Bertos who was a step down from those four. I felt that James should have more run in the midfield (not forward) rather than Brockie, but we can't tell enough without more match time, but I feel that he would be at Bertos level. Lochead another step down and then down to all the rest on the bottom rung.

BTW we are using the best team in the world to assess this world class ability in our players. A tough match assessmentAllWhitebelievr2009-06-15 16:20:12

Well, I thought it could have been a lot worse. While at times we were chasing shadows, and some of the passing was a bit woeful, there were other times I thought they played in a way seldom seen by nz teams. they did not just hoof it up field and hope- they were looking to make passes and move it around a bit (despite me yelling at the computer at least once "just kick the bloody thing away!). Some of the time in the second half there were wee passages of play where a number of quick, short passes were carried out well, even with spanish players being quite tight on ours.

Although not having seen iraq v sa, I am more confident than I was before the tournament that we might be able to nick a result.

Well. That was fairly bad. Scarily could of been alot worse.

I still believe we can get something from the Saffa and Iraq games. But we must tighten up at the back and utilise our set pieces to the fullest.

CMON YOU WHITES!!! (Looked brilliant in White too btw)

Elliot didn't look out of place against the best, same as the Italian game. I'm liking seeing a midfielder playing for the All Whites that can be that competitive. I can't remember anyone in the '82 side being as competitive (as Elliot) in the middle for us and in the 5-0 loss to the Brazilians back then we simply weren't in the game. Today, the first 30 minutes aside, I thought we went better than expected and settled down nicely. If Boyens hadn't kicked thin air then a 0-0 second half and that last 10 minutes of the first half were great.

I am extremely glad we played Italy and Spain before our crunch games against the next two. If we had played SA and Iraq first before Spain I would fear the worst. I have utmost confidence in the side after seeing what we are capable of in the last two matches. The first 30 mins aside today, I certainly have not seen an All Whites side so competitive against the best in the world before. It has always been about defence and keeping damage to a minimum, but we have height and some speed now to attack and look dangerous at times.
Bravo!!! Proud of the lads. Our first result is coming - I can feel it
Royal2009-06-15 17:18:23

Cesc looked f**king awesome though.

Spain was in first gear after getting their fourth - and still looked like they could score at will even when not trying. Only some poor finishing from Villa and a superb performance from the lino in the second half kept this in single figures.

We didn't threaten the whole game. Agree Elliott was prob our best, Smeltz and Killen tried hard and did some good work, but were simply outnumbered and outclassed to do much. Moss didn't do a thing wrong, but sure he's not happy with how exposed he was. Boyens and Vicelich don't cut it at this level as central defenders, but until Nelsen and Siggy are back, that's the best we have. Mulligan, as I've repeatedly said, is a waste of space.

Looking at the replay of that first goal -looks like Ivan steamed up and tried to double team the ball player - leaving Boyens with two men. Brockies tracking non existent on two of the goals. Dont spose he's had to track back into the box before.

yeah, looking at replay i was prob a bit tough on boyens re first goal. vicelich did him no favours

So inspired, watching gole ... Again

sh*te its magnificentMarius Lacatus2009-06-15 20:01:40

Elliot was definately the best. He had a couple of wayward cross field balls but apart from that I thought he linked up well when we actually had some possession. Mulligan was completely useless imo - he is NOT a right back. Right midfielder? Maybe. For the first 20-30 mins he was constantly caught up field.

I believe that we can beat SA and Iraq. Especially Iraq. They were very poor. SA are better than us but it's still a winnable game.

I thought leo was alright. And Elliot played well. Didn't see what people saw in Smeltz. I mean obviously did not have much of a chance, with the way the game went. Thought the comentator was talking about him because there was no one else to talk about.

To think we can beat S A is a bit of a stetch for me, But a scrappy draw, and Iraq here we come.

Has anybody noticed how empty the stadiums have looked in the first two matches to date? Even South Africa vs Iraq looked sparse in the front rows.

My recollections of that game were- it was 4-0 to Brazil (not 5-0, sorry Royal!) I think we were more completely outplayed in that game than we were today, although Van Hattum had a good display in goal, being peppered with shots all day- and Woodin had some moments of real class, causing more than a few worries for the Brazilians.

for me, this NZ team look more composed (albeit a bit shell-shocked for the first 20 mins today) than any I can remember. Although at times wayward, and very definitely outplayed all over the park, on the whole they did not panic, and did look to play it out from the back and through the park rather than rely on the kick and chase of the past.

Raining I think, not many foriegn visitors for the tournament, big stadia, apparently there were 28k for our match.

Don't know if its been mentioned but why the f*ck was the crowd giving those bloody horns? They're annoying enough at the rugby and were AWFUl at the football, i'd much rather here cheering and drums than mono tone howling.

Was quite strange though when he decided to get his tits out.

I can't recall who said it, but i agree with the statement that even though we were severly outclassed we did still try to pass the ball and keep it whereas in previous years we just hoofed it up field.

Good to see that most people are not bagging the AW's.
The fact is that most of the Spanish players earn more in a month than the Kiwi players earn in a year. That is why they are number 1 and we are in the eighties.There is no way we can compete with players of this class.

That said, they did well with what they had. A pity one particular goal spoilt a brave effort

The point being, none of the backs (with possible exception of Lochead) are up to it at this level - especially Mulligan, who doesn't know how to play his position properly. He's a terrible right back - as an example, look at the third Spanish goal.

Brown's defending the cross coming in from Mulligan's flank - i.e. Brown's defending the space that Mulligan should be. Mulligan's in the box doing nothing in particular. And that kind of stuff happens all the time, which puts tremendous pressure on our defensive structure.

He also whines like a bastard and blames everyone else for his own failings.  Can't for the life of me understand why you'd want him near the squad.

Thats South African football. They have those horns at every match, domestic and international. Get used to it. We're going to hear them alot during this tournament and the W.C

I'm not sure how he gets in there either. Ricki must see something that we all dont.

It is odd that he cant get on the park for the Phoenix but plays for NZ

Add Jeremy Christie to the list aswell

That's because we have a Maltese international keeping him out of the starting eleven at the Nix.

Brown:
I thought that about Brown, didn't even hear his name get mentioned and hardly saw him, yet Elliott was all over the game. I know there is strong support for Brown on this forum, I live in London so don't get to see him play much in the A-league etc. I would rather have Chris James in the midfield with Elliott. I think they would link up well there with their short passing game.

Lochead:
Didn't seem to do much wrong on defense....lucky for him though that the attack was all down the other side hitting poor old mulligan and Brockie/Christie. When Lochead did get the ball further up the park, I think I saw him twice and from memory both times he lost possesion or couldn't get a cross in. Isn't that what he is supposed to be good at.
To me it kind of looked like he was trying to have a quiet game, do his job and kind of hope that if ignored the fact that we were being walked over and leave our CB's to look bad no one would notice.

Sorry bit harsh...just heard a lot about Lochead and again dont get to see him much and when i do, he seems pretty average and doesn't put in that extra effort or performance that would help lift the teams performance....


LondonChris2009-06-15 22:24:41

For my two cents worth. I felt that three of those goals should n oit have happened and soryy to say it but Mossy wants to start using his hands instead of sliding in with his feet. Against Italy he pulled off a blinder save and when he got up if he had have dived the same way again, they wouldn't have scored, but instead he tried using his feet to cut it out.

not sure how Moss was to blame

Mulligans free kick however was the highlight for me.

Boyens' grotesque miskick was the highlight for me. Now that I've stopped being angry about it I'm appreciating what great comedy it was. Poor bastard was beyond dreadful.

Guys, you do realise we are talking about playing professional soccer players who can probably run 100 meters in about 10.6 seconds as a team average.

Torres is known to run just under 10.2 seconds, so really people don't realise what a shock to the system when opposing players are dribbling with such natural agility. They find that they suddenly have less time to react.

Thought I should say something about that to get some perspective.AllWhitebelievr2009-06-15 23:20:21

My thoughts on the game: