All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams

All Whites v Spain at Confeds Cup

328 replies · 11,162 views
almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mulligan does get a bit more criticism than he deserves. He's not the worst All Whites player on the field in my opinion...
 
Having said that, our defence was average tonight, and his control was substandard. Still think our attack and passing was surprisingly good (given we were playing Spain).
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Player ratings from goal

Mulligan 3 - Started well but very quickly lost concentration and confidence: Capdevila had the run of the flank as he was beaten time and again.

Vicelich 3.5 - Tracked back well but was a spare body on the edge of the box. Kept on losing possession.

being the worst, thought Brockie was poor, as I mentioned earlier, the right mid should track the left back.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mully was rubbish.  End of.  Lochhead is the only defender who didn't make stupid errors.  Yes we were playing the best team in the world, yes I expected us to lose, BUT I did not expect us to make 6 year old's errors, I thought that we would not make mistakes and if we got outclassed that's cool but you can't miss the ball completely in your own box under no pressure (Boyens) when you have a man like Villa nearby
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
"On a side note, we have got to get out of Oceania!"

Know what you mean loyal  gunner but if we weren't in Oceania we wouldn't be at the Confeds Cup playing Spain and italy within 5 days! ..and unlikely to do so for at least a decade until we really got up to speed in Asia Confed.
NZ just needs to make the most of these rare opportunities  ..SA and Iraq games are key for NZ to step up a rung on the international ladder.Today was the football lesson..it wasn't the 13-0 thrashing of the past..plenty for the AWs to work on..  and, big plus.... no one team is currently a clear second yet in AW's group with the 0-0 draw from SA and Iraq.
 Both teams are likely to lose to Spain, so it could actually be up to the All Whites with positive results against both.
  Put your loss away now and get some focus guys its TOTALLY in your hands!

  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
jamesnz wrote:
Mulligan does get a bit more criticism than he deserves. He's not the worst All Whites player on the field in my opinion...
 
Having said that, our defence was average tonight, and his control was substandard. Still think our attack and passing was surprisingly good (given we were playing Spain).



He just always seems to run around like a rat in maze, no plan or idea what he's doing. Like I said he had a better 2nd half.

Still think there were positives from the match

Anyone wonder about Brockie getting the hump?
ForteanTimes2009-06-15 09:01:20

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Think they seem to have confused Viclich with Elliott there. They have Elliott as defender and Vicelich as midfielder.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Brockie 6 - A leading light of the side until his early substitution.


Wow...
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
linds wrote:
Player ratings from goal

Mulligan 3 - Started well but very quickly lost concentration and confidence: Capdevila had the run of the flank as he was beaten time and again.

Vicelich 3.5 - Tracked back well but was a spare body on the edge of the box. Kept on losing possession.

being the worst, thought Brockie was poor, as I mentioned earlier, the right mid should track the left back.
 
Probably agree with those two ratings, but to say (as the article does) that Smeltz was our standout tonight is ridiculous. I think (from the limited view of my TV screen) that Killen was the standout up front. Leo had an okay match and Elliot's passing through midfield was pretty solid.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
RedGed wrote:
"On a side note, we have got to get out of Oceania!"

Know what you mean loyal  gunner but if we weren't in Oceania we wouldn't be at the Confeds Cup playing Spain and italy within 5 days! ..and unlikely to do so for at least a decade until we really got up to speed in Asia Confed.
NZ just needs to make the most of these rare opportunities  ..SA and Iraq games are key for NZ to step up a rung on the international ladder.Today was the football lesson..it wasn't the 13-0 thrashing of the past..plenty for the AWs to work on..  and, big plus.... no one team is currently a clear second yet in AW's group with the 0-0 draw from SA and Iraq.
 Both teams are likely to lose to Spain, so it could actually be up to the All Whites with positive results against both.
  Put your loss away now and get some focus guys its TOTALLY in your hands!


Yep double-edged sword being king of Oceania.

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Normal service is resumed.

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Strangely I feel quietly confident of getting something out of our last two games after that. Yes we were completely outplayed, but this is Spain we're playing here... at full strength too. Torres is worth more than our entire squad put together!

The score could have been a complete blow out, but after the first 25 mins we managed to settle down and play some relatively decent football, especially in the 2nd half, bar a couple of glaring errors. We managed to get some decent passes together, and got he posession stat back to about 40-60 I think by the end of the game.
 
Spain's movement on and particularly off the ball is something our lads have never played against before and that's what really killed us. South Africa and Iraq do not have that kind of movement so am hopeful of good showings against them.



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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
those goal.com player ratings are complete bollocks! I dont reckon anything they said is even remotely accurate. they've just made sh!t up for the sake of it.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
??????
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
those goal.com player ratings are complete bollocks! I dont reckon anything they said is even remotely accurate. they've just made sh!t up for the sake of it.


+1 Yes just read this it is indeed mostly complete sh*te.
ForteanTimes2009-06-15 09:25:22

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
At least the All Whites can say it was probably the best performance by a New Zealand Team of the weekend.

All Blacks Vs France, and BlackCaps vs Pakistan. Id take a 5 nil loss to Spain.

All Aboard the Phoenix/ All Whites Bandwagon!!

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
To the guy in the big 4x4 Oceania Football Association van crossing the Harbour Bridge this morning, STOP CHEWING YOUR NAILS.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yeh what was with brockie? sitting out on the bench at half time?
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tough game to be sure, as Spain are incredible and had a huge advantage at every position but I felt the coaching staff failed insofar as the sum of the NZ parts seemed to be playing less than their individual potential.

I would think tactically, the coaching could have done something to maximize NZ's potential and minimize the tactical shortcomings vs Spain, but I just didn't see that out there.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sebsational wrote:
yeh what was with brockie? sitting out on the bench at half time?
 
To be fair he's entitled to be a bit miffed at being subbed before the break.
 
Here's hoping he gets over it.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm going to be very brutal in my match analysis on strategy and tactics.

Firstly, Spain was amazing in the first 20 minutes with quick rapid and accurate passes from the wings and the damage was done. After that they just held possession and pepper us whenever they feel like.

Secondly, those horns in the crowd was annoying buzz during the whole game.

Thirdly, our lateral backs was unsupported by our lateral midfield having compact defensive problems and then caught ball watching because of their slick passing.

Fourthly, we don't understand how to gain possession from a high class team. There is no 50/50 balls to contest which we are mostly familiar with at our level, which we usually are capable to get from physical gain. Therefore, it was almost pointless for our Gk to kick our goal kick away when it is the only time we can positively make use of possession. The way to combat that is to mix up the kicks with some short ball to the lateral backs as well as some medium balls to the wings. It helps with our build up of attacks. Also we need to pressure to the sideline so that we gain some throw ins in order to gain some possession effort.

Next we need to secure our possession. Since our long ball passing is easily defendable, we need to work on the medium and short passes first before venturing out to any long ball game that we were defaulting too readily. We look better then but of course they knew how to defend in small space well enough that we couldn't get much flow that we would like, but then immediately we need to able to pressure in tight small space without resorting to any real speed and pace on the lateral area and so can in turn if we have the hard passion, disrupt their flow as well and makes for an even battle ground (or some fighting chance)

We defaulted to the deep long crosses from the wing and that was not going anywhere as usual. Really didn't know how to attack from this area and few opportunities to do so. Essentially, there was no other options having little either in the way of speed or passing options to the centre midfield and forward positions (especially when Killen and Smeltz were marked well). without dribbling inwards or outwards against their backs, it offered little options for support in space by the central midfielders and lateral backs when Spain's lateral backs and lateral midfielders was closing down on the position. This is where occasionally the lateral backs helps secure possession by back passing and in fact is the first passing option more often than not. hence looking in the wrong passing option and maybe a hint that communication is not being use effectively.

Centre Midfielders had compact defensive issues and so had too much area to cover and could not link with the lateral midfield and lateral backs in either attack or defence. This lead to quite a number of goals in the overall scheme because of the lack of applying the right type of pressure. Initially their midfield line was too far ahead from the defensive line even more than their game against Italy. They need to drop it back 10 metres (which was 5 metres compared to Italy) Because of losing goals through the lateral back region, they panic and withdrew their midfield line too far back (15 metres) towards their defence line, allowing the opposition to run riot from the midfield thus creating four points of attack instead on the previous two points of attack (both wings). This is where trust with their teammates and control of their area was severely compromise.

Point of attacks for the team. Like I had said before, Spain was going to go down their wings from the word go and they did that with extreme effectiveness. They had the speed and they knew our lateral back was our main weak points and our lateral midfielders have weak positioning. They knew our midfield defence was our strength. So there was no way we ever was going to pressure their first touch on the outer.

Our best chances to attack is not from either wings but through our centre midfield defence quickly distribute directly to our forwards feet coming back to set up the next player coming through the centre midfield on the counterattack. The only chance of catching their centre midfield out of position was when they were supporting their lateral attack. This opens up the centre briefly enough to counterattack accurately enough.

Simply, our lateral players are not coping with the speed of really world class team and so is not a firm enough point of attack but if they do win the odd ball they should go up as best they could without encountering the opposition and then look for the safe back pass to the free lateral player or a quick pass to the central defensive midfielders (which is our strength unfortunately) especially if they have support from a forward coming back for the next pass [always think two passes ahead] as the only time to get forward ground. The defensive midfielders other passing options is to the central defender or lateral defender so it is a safer option than one usually thinks. [Only pass to the lateral midfielder when there he is able to move up 5 metres more unmarked than he was after his passing.] This is simply because of the oppositions central midfield in a 4-4-2 is supporting the lateral attack so readily and is the only way to exploit it. We had demonstrate before against Italy on occasions but it was definitely not utilise in this game. Only a couple of times towards the end of each half was it used and only because the gap was more apparent by the opposition's drop in speed, but otherwise, they should be looking hard for it rather than waiting for it when it tailed off more towards the end of each half. If they had a 3-5-2 then the strategy would be very different but they used 4-4-2 so it was there for the looking.

Central defenders had a horrid time especially Boyens. The class of Torres and Villa was made to look easy by the lateral attack's ability to provide accurate ball service due to the lack of sustained lateral defence. This enabled their forward attack to gain more than a body length away from their markers after two touches, giving more than enough time for accurate shots on goal. Any pressure from the lateral defence would have forced the forwards to take three touches instead, increasing the central defensive chances by flow on effect. The other tactic, because of the weak lateral defence, is for the central defenders to literally step (outside the box) into the forward (shoulder to shoulder from the goal side) to ]b]physically annoy by hold (not force grabbing) a small part of the shirt (hence able to watch the ball and also know where the forward is moving towards at the same time) when the ref is not looking and timed when [just before] the opposition winger/lateral midfield is looking to knock the ball, it helps with the tight marking but also helps to dominate the space in front of the forward making the forward to move in an unfavourable position to get the ball and to score. It is a developing tactic to learn.

Also as I mention before, the lateral backs was coming from the midline/midcentre of the goal which is a mistake as the GK should be controlling that area (six yards box) totally. they should be coming out from the midline/midcentre front of the six yard box. This is to position the body against the lateral attack from the side of the 18 yard box better and make that short inside pass path to an opposition central midfielder slightly tighter and easier for the defensive midfielder to cover the threat.

Still think that counterattacking patterns would have made a great difference in this game. I have not seen this in this game. There was elements of this in the Italian game but that was much more open and therefore expected.

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What we did against Italy can work against South Africa and Iraq to a certain degree. They will resort to fouling us as seen in their recent clash. They don't have the speed of Spain. Even in pace across the park; a couple of paceman in the South African forwards but only in their counterattack. Seems to lack a solid targetman. We should be able to share the possession evenly with both of them. However I only saw 30 minutes in the second half (the best part of the game apparently) in patches (due to internet steaming) so it is an incomplete analysis and not much to work off, sorry.

South Africa will have problems with team pressure and attacked through the centre mainly but Iraq is different, they use the laterals and sometime is able to initial their laterals from the centre midfield. They are looking to counterattack more but is somewhat out of placed when forced to playmake their game with the South Africa defaulting to defending their half. Hence was able to a bit more time to initial attack from the centre midfield. Whilst South Africa was able to attack directly through mainly the centre by quick counterattacking only to be halted by the GK a few times. South Africa were the better side and should have won 1-0 if it wasn't for their own striker clearing from the IRAQ GOALINE !! Iraq was average against a slightly better than average team. They were both boring and average for the first 60 minutes. A bunch of small fouls made it a stop-start affair.

[Updated post to bold points] AllWhitebelievr2009-06-15 15:15:02
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Those ratings are average just made up bollocks, and i woke up to it being 4-0 i was suprised as ever thought it was going to be a blow out.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

we got a bit of a pasting down that left flank, but hard to recall how responsible Brockie was.

Boyens gave Torres far too much space and time for that first goal (and I think he did exactly the same thing for Italy's fourth goal the other day - the shot that was parried to Iaquinta). He hangs off far too much in dangerous areas - that is why Sigmund must start ahead of him. Second and third goals came from our right side. I dont remember the build up very well, and whose fault it was they were able to get in behind us, but one of the three defenders near and around Torres (particularly, Lochhead) should have been able to cut out the cross for the second goal. Third was good cross, good header, dont remember who to blame. I was utterly demoralised at that point and thought our luck might change if I turned TV off for 10 mins so missed the fourth. Then Brockie got subbed. We all know what happened with the 5th.
 
we were also getting a hiding down the other side at times, but it didnt happen to cost us. Brockie may have been a bit hard done by, perhaps a bit of scapegoal, but Herbert had to do something.
 
my obervations otherwise ...
- Smeltz not at his best
- Mulligan panics on the ball, has poor touch and hits a lot of aimless passes
- Boyens has limitations
- did Brown touch the ball? I almost cant remember him making a pass - in fact i cant
- Vicelich read game quite well and made some good interventions
- Killen battled ok, won a bit of ball and quite a few headers
- Bertos did alright but let himself down with his crosses
- Elliott showed a lot of composure on the ball. A couple of loose passes, but stacks of good ones.
- Lochhead didnt seem to do too bad defensively, but didnt offer anything getting forward
- Moss was fine
- Christie had a few decent touches, but also passed ball away under pressure
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
my obervations otherwise ...
- Smeltz not at his best
- Mulligan panics on the ball, has poor touch and hits a lot of aimless passes
- Boyens has limitations
- did Brown touch the ball? I almost cant remember him making a pass - in fact i cant
- Vicelich read game quite well and made some good interventions
- Killen battled ok, won a bit of ball and quite a few headers
- Bertos did alright but let himself down with his crosses
- Elliott showed a lot of composure on the ball. A couple of loose passes, but stacks of good ones.
- Lochhead didnt seem to do too bad defensively, but didnt offer anything getting forward
- Moss was fine
- Christie had a few decent touches, but also passed ball away under pressure
 
I'd agree with most of those. For me, Elliot was our man of the match. Killen had a decent game, and Moss made a couple of good saves (he had no chance of saving any of those that went in today). Brockie didn't seem to be playing too bad from what I saw. Christie was definitely not an improvement.
jamesnz2009-06-15 10:50:57
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I don't think Vicelich is a CB more of a RB or Dm, I would prefer we lined up like this next match:



Killen - Smeltz

Bertos - Elliott - Brown - James

Lochhead - Sigmund - Boyens - Vicelich

Moss


Included Boyens as we don't have much other choice and theres no way I was going to include Old.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I don't think I've ever seen Ivan play right back.  Left back, but not right.

I'd leave Ivan in the middle with Siggy and play Duncan Oughton at Right back.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Highlights for both  Confed games  on Sky Sport H/L channel 11.30am.. for those who can.

  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We all knew in our hearts it would be this sort of score. Back in 82 Brazil knocked 4 past us, in 2005 the European champions of the time, France, knocked 5 past us. The reality factor kicks in, I told Timmy I thought it was going to be 6. Im not too fussed by it as its to be expected, we simply dont have the players to really give the big boys and their best 11 players a run for their money. The boys will be gutted.

The next two games will be interesting, I watched the Iraq/South Africa game and if we can weather the initial onslaught by those 2 teams we could do well. Both those sides showed a lack of discipline in their team shape and movement. Heres hoping.

The Rufers played Ivan at right back against Melbourne in the rain one night. But thats the only time I can ever remember it. Im not a mulligan fan at all but I did think he was let down by the lack of support from Brockie.

God knows why that clown Brockie even makes it in to a NZ side. However I think Im the only one who thinks like that, for some unknown reason tons think he is god. His first touch is worse than Hardnews's
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sec138 wrote:
Tough game to be sure, as Spain are incredible and had a huge advantage at every position but I felt the coaching staff failed insofar as the sum of the NZ parts seemed to be playing less than their individual potential.

I would think tactically, the coaching could have done something to maximise NZ's potential and minimise the tactical shortcomings vs Spain, but I just didn't see that out there.


I think Spain are probably the best and scariest team in the world at the moment, playing so well with pace and accuracy that is even streets ahead of the best Italy can do.

5 - 0 was par, with the other two sides drawing, if we can get a win and a draw against them, we have a good chance to progress, as Spain will win all of theirs.

How we want the table to look at the end of the round

1. Spain 3-0-0 9pts
2. NZ     1-1-1 4pts
3. Iraq   0-2-1 2pts
4. S A    0-1-2 1pts

Which of the two are we most likely to beat?
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I couldn't believe how slick Spain were  for the first half hour, unbelievable quality possession, passing and finishing.

I think we were lucky that there was a combination of them slackening off, and us getting it together more, or the score could have doubled.

Dont know what happened with Brockie, if it was his decision to stay out there, he shouldnt play again this tournament. Thought the rest were average, noone stood out.

That is how it was always possibly going to be, Spain really on, us off,  time to move forward to the next one.


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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
big.soccer wrote:


The best result for New Zealand today. . . the game between RSA and Iraq







The South African striker clears the ball off the IRAQ GOAL LINE !!

0-0
Good result for NZ. (hehe)
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I thought the assistant referee on our left flank was our most valuable player in the 2nd half. 
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I felt Moss was very unsure (like everyone), didn't command the high ball, should have gathered it in. Let us down a bit after the whole team had allowed them to waltz up to us.
 
Would like to see Paston get some practice in for WCQs.
 
Still a Moss fan though.

Botafogo - Rio de Janeiro and Wellington Phoenix, my two teams til death do us part.

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think Brockie was meant to be used as more of an attacking winger, however when we went 4-nil down early on Herbert felt we needed a more defensive player on the field and Brockie had to come off for Christie. I don't think it was because Brockie was playing bad, more a case of having the wrong player on the field at the wrong time. Hope he comes back and does well
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
chrispy wrote:
I think Brockie was meant to be used as more of an attacking winger, however when we went 4-nil down early on Herbert felt we needed a more defensive player on the field and Brockie had to come off for Christie. I don't think it was because Brockie was playing bad, more a case of having the wrong player on the field at the wrong time. Hope he comes back and does well


Agree, too attacking in hindsight, tactical error from Ricki that needed to be rectified, unfortunately for Brockie it was down his side and Leo is more likely to create something from the other side.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Corkster wrote:
I thought the assistant referee on our left flank was our most valuable player in the 2nd half. 
 
Couldn't have put it better. From what I saw we really picked our game up in the second half, however if we crumble under pressure then thats average!
 
But MAN I love watching Spain play, i'm adopting them as my team for tournaments where NZ isn't represented
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen Ivan play right back.  Left back, but not right.

I'd leave Ivan in the middle with Siggy and play Duncan Oughton at Right back.



Typical, had to ruin my post....but your plan does make much more sense...
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
caseym wrote:
Hard News wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen Ivan play right back.  Left back, but not right.

I'd leave Ivan in the middle with Siggy and play Duncan Oughton at Right back.



Typical, had to ruin my post....but your plan does make much more sense...
 
yeah Boyens has to go. Fingers crossed Siggy is ok to have a run. Oughton ar RB, and I'd rather have Baron there over Mully too.

Founder

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