The Qatar statement is crap - basically he claims that he was the victim of racist slurs/taunts the whole game and that he has the backing of their FA.
Usual level of transparency by Qatar... whose word means very little as an organisation when one looks at all their flip flopping days out from the WC.
I hope the ref says, I heard this, but did not know its reference so did not act or similar, to atleast dismiss any of the Qatar BS being taken seriously.
This incident is another part of a much wider issue of racial abuse in the beautiful game. As someone else posted until you have been racially abused it's simply impossible to know how serious, hurtful an issue it is. A few years back I wandering around downtown built up Cape Town (was getting late), and it just suddenly dawned on me that there were no white people around me at all - and I was very much the odd one out. Was a sudden weird feeling. Like how a black African walking around Wellington or Christchurch would feel ever day. Like all eyes are on you, and your skin colour. A mini epihany. To just be kicking a football around whilst thousands of cowards chant monkey noises or whatever in the stands, directly at you, must be incredibly hurtful.
Do agree somewhat that the local Austrian referee was in between a rock & a hard place. What was he to do, send the Qatari off? What if he genuinely didn't hear the slur? He was probably in a relaxed mood in the sun officiating a soon forgotten friendly in front of no one, then suddenly in the blink of an eye he's in the midst of a shark storm. Human nature in a way just to hope it all went away.
This incident is another part of a much wider issue of racial abuse in the beautiful game. As someone else posted until you have been racially abused it's simply impossible to know how serious, hurtful an issue it is. A few years back I wandering around downtown built up Cape Town (was getting late), and it just suddenly dawned on me that there were no white people around me at all - and I was very much the odd one out. Was a sudden weird feeling. Like how a black African walking around Wellington or Christchurch would feel ever day. Like all eyes are on you, and your skin colour. A mini epihany. To just be kicking a football around whilst thousands of cowards chant monkey noises or whatever in the stands, directly at you, must be incredibly hurtful.
Do agree somewhat that the local Austrian referee was in between a rock & a hard place. What was he to do, send the Qatari off? What if he genuinely didn't hear the slur? He was probably in a relaxed mood officiating a soon forgotten friendly in front of no one, then suddenly in the blinl of an eye he's in the midst of a shark storm. Human nature in a way just to hope it all went away.
I was intrigued by the way the blog author posted the pics of the people involved...
seems to be trying to suggest that the Qatari player can't have made a racist comment cos he has darker skin than Boxall, bit of a weak arguement for mine.
seems to be trying to suggest that the Qatari player can't have made a racist comment cos he has darker skin than Boxall, bit of a weak arguement for mine.
seems to be trying to suggest that the Qatari player can't have made a racist comment cos he has darker skin than Boxall, bit of a weak arguement for mine.
See that's he's an Army (likely older) Major. The old school Forces still playing catchup in these changing times.
To my mind the team has to come to the media with what was actually said now, if they don't it's all just going to divulge into a game of he said she said.
Now of course most of us here believe the team when they say there was racist abuse but no one else is under any obligation to believe. If nothing comes to light it will just end up being a nothing event that's forgotten about except by kiwis that like to think we've done something special.
To my mind the team has to come to the media with what was actually said now, if they don't it's all just going to divulge into a game of he said she said.
Now of course most of us here believe the team when they say there was racist abuse but no one else is under any obligation to believe. If nothing comes to light it will just end up being a nothing event that's forgotten about except by kiwis that like to think we've done something special.
Agreed. Walking off was the wrong decision. We dont know what was said, maybe it was misheard/misunderstood. You have to let the officials run the game.
To my mind the team has to come to the media with what was actually said now, if they don't it's all just going to divulge into a game of he said she said.
Now of course most of us here believe the team when they say there was racist abuse but no one else is under any obligation to believe. If nothing comes to light it will just end up being a nothing event that's forgotten about except by kiwis that like to think we've done something special.
Disagree. Sharing the content now would fuel the gossip as then people would interpret/reinterpret about whether it was racists or not. I find the fascination on knowing the exact wording a distraction from the fact that it was said. We've made our first move to support our player, our next should be working with the FIFA anti-racism task force to get an outcome.
To my mind the team has to come to the media with what was actually said now, if they don't it's all just going to divulge into a game of he said she said.
Now of course most of us here believe the team when they say there was racist abuse but no one else is under any obligation to believe. If nothing comes to light it will just end up being a nothing event that's forgotten about except by kiwis that like to think we've done something special.
I think walking off is fine and not disclosing it is fine, maybe after an investigation but not before. The spontaneous reaction from a number of All White players meant it was certainly easily understood by those within earshot.
To my mind the team has to come to the media with what was actually said now, if they don't it's all just going to divulge into a game of he said she said.
Now of course most of us here believe the team when they say there was racist abuse but no one else is under any obligation to believe. If nothing comes to light it will just end up being a nothing event that's forgotten about except by kiwis that like to think we've done something special.
Disagree. Sharing the content now would fuel the gossip as then people would interpret/reinterpret about whether it was racists or not. I find the fascination on knowing the exact wording a distraction from the fact that it was said. We've made our first move to support our player, our next should be working with the FIFA anti-racism task force to get an outcome.
But you see the problem is that now I could, for example, simply say that nothing offensive was said and that the NZ players are lying. There's as much proof of that as there is of racist remarks atm, I think its very important to know what was said allegedly.
Those of us on this forum believe the team but really there's not even a case presented to us the public let alone proof, for all we know it was a language mix up gone wrong.
Now don't get me wrong, I believe Boxall personally, but without any info the public will eventually turn in opinion.
Without knowing what exactly what was said, how can we individually make our own assessment of whether it was racist or not? Sure we have the NZ players saying it was racist but this thread has shown we all seem to have different definitions and I want to know more before making my decision. reg22
Fitzy
I get that the point of forums is to talk shark and pretend we’re all experts, but fudge me the level of ignorance about racism in this thread is remarkable. It’s a major issue, directly relevant to NZ and can be perpetrated by anyone. Any argument along the lines of ‘but what about this other terrible thing’ is a ridiculous straw man argument. And anyone who thinks this is unfortunately just part of the game is showing their whole ass. Embarrassing behaviour.
Yeah, it's disappointing but not surprising. The excuses being offered are pathetic. There are no grey areas with racism.
Our team from our country took an affirmative stand where most have not in the past. There should be nothing but universal applause for what they did.
Anyone suggesting that they should have 'filed this thing in to a process' has never experienced racism or simply does not care that much about it.
I'm sorry, but if you have not been on the recieiving end of racism, you don't get to give it five minutes of thought and then file it under 'not a big deal'
(And to play the game with all the people who want to say oh he wasn’t dark skinned enough etc..though I do remember Boxy standing up for Brockie when his ‘White Boy Speed’ or some such was in the papers in SA!)
It’s up to us to either support our team or not.
There was clearly 4-5 players who heard something and were immediately incensed by it in a way I have never seen from an NZ team. They now have to follow the procedures and reports and try to find an outcome that will take things in a positive direction.
This is an incredibly embarrassing insect bite for Qatar and the way they have reacted suggests there’s not yet much chance of rapprochement. It could have some really unfortunate consequences for careers and our chances of getting games.
We have to either stand by our team while the local blowhards opine and the international organisations clean things up or we don’t.
I think if NZ does not offer more specificity to the public, in terms of at least what sort of slur it was and who exactly heard it clearly, it makes it much easier for those who aren't invested in this incident (i.e. everyone who isn't interested in Qatari or NZ football) to ignore/forget about it. Because as it stands there is a vague accusation and it is very uncertain exactly how likely it is that it was said or not said or misheard or misinterpreted.
And as far as FIFA goes, they'll be doing everything they can to sweep it under the rug. They gave the world cup to Qatar and backed them despite enormous amounts of bad publicity. This incident is nothing compared to that. I'm sure FIFA would be very keen to come down hard on a poor eastern European nation for the good PR/publicity of doing something about racism but not on a country which which their dealings have been very lucrative. And it isn't like NZ is a powerful influential or wealthy country that you don't want to piss off.
Without knowing what exactly what was said, how can we individually make our own assessment of whether it was racist or not? Sure we have the NZ players saying it was racist but this thread has shown we all seem to have different definitions and I want to know more before making my decision. reg22
Fitzy
I get that the point of forums is to talk shark and pretend we’re all experts, but fudge me the level of ignorance about racism in this thread is remarkable. It’s a major issue, directly relevant to NZ and can be perpetrated by anyone. Any argument along the lines of ‘but what about this other terrible thing’ is a ridiculous straw man argument. And anyone who thinks this is unfortunately just part of the game is showing their whole ass. Embarrassing behaviour.
Yeah, it's disappointing but not surprising. The excuses being offered are pathetic. There are no grey areas with racism.
Our team from our country took an affirmative stand where most have not in the past. There should be nothing but universal applause for what they did.
Anyone suggesting that they should have 'filed this thing in to a process' has never experienced racism or simply does not care that much about it.
I'm sorry, but if you have not been on the recieiving end of racism, you don't get to give it five minutes of thought and then file it under 'not a big deal'
because we trust our players (and their reaction). do you not?
To my mind the team has to come to the media with what was actually said now, if they don't it's all just going to divulge into a game of he said she said.
Now of course most of us here believe the team when they say there was racist abuse but no one else is under any obligation to believe. If nothing comes to light it will just end up being a nothing event that's forgotten about except by kiwis that like to think we've done something special.
Disagree. Sharing the content now would fuel the gossip as then people would interpret/reinterpret about whether it was racists or not. I find the fascination on knowing the exact wording a distraction from the fact that it was said. We've made our first move to support our player, our next should be working with the FIFA anti-racism task force to get an outcome.
But you see the problem is that now I could, for example, simply say that nothing offensive was said and that the NZ players are lying. There's as much proof of that as there is of racist remarks atm, I think its very important to know what was said allegedly.
Those of us on this forum believe the team but really there's not even a case presented to us the public let alone proof, for all we know it was a language mix up gone wrong.
Now don't get me wrong, I believe Boxall personally, but without any info the public will eventually turn in opinion.
The public opinion doesn't matter, if FIFA launches an investigation NZ will tell them.
FIFA have stated they are gathering reports from referee Manuel Schuttengrubber, New Zealand and Qatar before coming to a decision, but they are nevertheless investigating and an outcome will be reached
I messaged Boxall today and surprisingly got a reply from him. I did not ask for specifics but complimented the team of sticking together and supporting him in this incident. His response was along the line that he was very proud that the team stuck together. Good on him/them
Without knowing what exactly what was said, how can we individually make our own assessment of whether it was racist or not? Sure we have the NZ players saying it was racist but this thread has shown we all seem to have different definitions and I want to know more before making my decision. reg22
Fitzy
I get that the point of forums is to talk shark and pretend we’re all experts, but fudge me the level of ignorance about racism in this thread is remarkable. It’s a major issue, directly relevant to NZ and can be perpetrated by anyone. Any argument along the lines of ‘but what about this other terrible thing’ is a ridiculous straw man argument. And anyone who thinks this is unfortunately just part of the game is showing their whole ass. Embarrassing behaviour.
Yeah, it's disappointing but not surprising. The excuses being offered are pathetic. There are no grey areas with racism.
Our team from our country took an affirmative stand where most have not in the past. There should be nothing but universal applause for what they did.
Anyone suggesting that they should have 'filed this thing in to a process' has never experienced racism or simply does not care that much about it.
I'm sorry, but if you have not been on the recieiving end of racism, you don't get to give it five minutes of thought and then file it under 'not a big deal'
because we trust our players (and their reaction). do you not?
Believing people without question is pretty stupid tbh, regardless of who they are.
Repeating the slur publically just gives the hate more air time than it needs. The team dont need to justify to the fans why they didnt come back, we should be supporting them in their plight. The only people they have to convince the slur occurred are FIFA so they can act accordingly. Ref didnt hear it but there will be footage of it from some angle. If it's investigated then lip readers will have a go at it and once its determined what was said fines/bans should be applied. If it turns out that our guys said something first then no doubt the reaction will be oretty bad,
On what would I base my trust on? I do not know anyone involved on either side of the ball. It is equally easy to take the NZ version as it is take the Qatari side for people that aren’t NZers. I have been around long enough and had enough experience to know that you can’t take on trust anything without some specific knowledge of the situation or the people involved.mrsmiis
Napier Phoenix
Without knowing what exactly what was said, how can we individually make our own assessment of whether it was racist or not? Sure we have the NZ players saying it was racist but this thread has shown we all seem to have different definitions and I want to know more before making my decision. reg22
Fitzy
I get that the point of forums is to talk shark and pretend we’re all experts, but fudge me the level of ignorance about racism in this thread is remarkable. It’s a major issue, directly relevant to NZ and can be perpetrated by anyone. Any argument along the lines of ‘but what about this other terrible thing’ is a ridiculous straw man argument. And anyone who thinks this is unfortunately just part of the game is showing their whole ass. Embarrassing behaviour.
Yeah, it's disappointing but not surprising. The excuses being offered are pathetic. There are no grey areas with racism.
Our team from our country took an affirmative stand where most have not in the past. There should be nothing but universal applause for what they did.
Anyone suggesting that they should have 'filed this thing in to a process' has never experienced racism or simply does not care that much about it.
I'm sorry, but if you have not been on the recieiving end of racism, you don't get to give it five minutes of thought and then file it under 'not a big deal'
because we trust our players (and their reaction). do you not?
Oh my godddd bro some of these takes from people on this website are embarrassing. I thought Nix fans were supposed to pride themselves on tolerance and progressive thinking, but some of you losers couldn’t be further from that ethos.
The Qatari player OBVIOUSLY said something seriously offensive, that’s evidenced by the reaction of every all white within earshot.
Bell and the boys took the only real meaningful action they could have by refusing to continue. Do any of you really think FIFA would legitimately investigate a formal complaint against Qatar?? The country they let kill hundreds of migrant workers??
This team has demonstrated their character and unity on multiple occasions now. If you’re not gonna back Boxall, Bell and the rest of the team, then you can’t call yourself a true supporter.
Oh my godddd bro some of these takes from people on this website are embarrassing. I thought Nix fans were supposed to pride themselves on tolerance and progressive thinking, but some of you losers couldn’t be further from that ethos.
The Qatari player OBVIOUSLY said something seriously offensive, that’s evidenced by the reaction of every all white within earshot.
Bell and the boys took the only real meaningful action they could have by refusing to continue. Do any of you really think FIFA would legitimately investigate a formal complaint against Qatar?? The country they let kill hundreds of migrant workers??
This team has demonstrated their character and unity on multiple occasions now. If you’re not gonna back Boxall, Bell and the rest of the team, then you can’t call yourself a true supporter.
I'm pretty sure it was only 1 (or maybe 2) people, out of many, who you could be upset by their takes. Most Nix fans in this thread clearly 100% support the team decison to not come out after half time, and even those who didn't weren't coming at it from a racist pov (more of a 'if the ref couldn't hear it,then what can he do', which is reasonable).
In the European press this incident has been largely reported in a factual way with very little analysis. Basically ‘NZ players refused to play second half against Qatar because of an alleged racial slur’. There has been constant racism going on in European football for ages with some particularly ugly scenes in Italy and most recently in Spain targeting Vinicius Junior of Madrid. But despite widespread condemnation very little gets done. I say good on you kiwis, if every team responded in the same way then the authorities would be forced to act. Don’t expect FIFA to do anything other than say they condemn racism but as the match officials heard nothing the matter is closed. Qatar is a huge cash cow for FIFA so they are not going to upset the relationship.
they cant rule it 3-0 win for nz since this will bring a lot of situations of he said he said, I just think if there is an answere it will be qatar awarded a 3-0 win, and that's it , if not fifa will leave it as a weird case under investigation
what if a player fake some racism comments to get the upper hand? as Queiroz said this is a new chapter in football, and again what if boxall stomp on the lad, it would have been a zidane 2
I'm going against the grain here, but I personally don't think the AWs should have abandoned the match. The ref clearly missed the incident, or at the very least didn't do enough to address it. Finish the game, kick the guy to shreds (one big hit per player...he'll get subbed after 5 minutes!) and then lodge a formal complaint with FIFA.
How is this (as despicable as it was) different from the hundreds of spitting, verbal abuse or violent conduct incidents that have been missed over the years? Should these things happen? Absolutely not! But sadly they still do. Luckily there are avenues available to take the matter further which don't require walking off the pitch.
Great to see we presented a united front, these things are to be praised and will help with the collective growth of the team. On the other hand, playing and ideally getting a result vs a good team would also have done wonders for us.
Finally, I'd really like to know what was said. Let's not forget a lot of people who aren't native English speakers may not know the exact degree of hurt some words may really inflict someone.
Just my two cents...
Have seen this take on social media as well... how the fudge is resorting to violence against said player a better option? If that's deliberate, which you're implying that it is, that's just sinking to their level.
Please tell me your are joking. "Resorting to violence"? I never said corner him in an alley somewhere and stick a knife in his thigh. Simply, show him he's gone too far and there are repercussions. Not a pretty approach for sure, but anyone who's ever player 5 minutes of football in their life will know there are certain unspoken rules. Just like players can talk about their opponents' mothers and their alleged escapades the night before, they are also allowed to use a degree of physicality to make a point.
Also, to everyone saying "if you don't back the boys, you aren't a true supporter", perhaps you are taking a very simple approach to the matter. Things are seldom so clear cut and being so blinfly certain of one's position could mean one hasn't really pondered the problem at hand.
We can all agree that racism = bad (I hope) but please let people have a preference on whether beating the bullies and then formally complain would have been better than just walking off.
And finally, let's not forget that we still have NO IDEA of what was actually said.
In the European press this incident has been largely reported in a factual way with very little analysis. Basically ‘NZ players refused to play second half against Qatar because of an alleged racial slur’. There has been constant racism going on in European football for ages with some particularly ugly scenes in Italy and most recently in Spain targeting Vinicius Junior of Madrid. But despite widespread condemnation very little gets done. I say good on you kiwis, if every team responded in the same way then the authorities would be forced to act. Don’t expect FIFA to do anything other than say they condemn racism but as the match officials heard nothing the matter is closed. Qatar is a huge cash cow for FIFA so they are not going to upset the relationship.
The problem is, it can't be up to a team to decide. That's why you have match officials, VAR and failing that a match review panel. Fifa should totally do a lot more. I can only think of a handful of situations where the referee stopped the game because of repeated racism issues. And yet we see and hear racism remarks, chants and gestures all the time.
There need to be clear and strict rules which are enforced by the refereeing team. Otherwise it's be impossible to manage.
Oh my godddd bro some of these takes from people on this website are embarrassing. I thought Nix fans were supposed to pride themselves on tolerance and progressive thinking, but some of you losers couldn’t be further from that ethos.
The Qatari player OBVIOUSLY said something seriously offensive, that’s evidenced by the reaction of every all white within earshot.
Bell and the boys took the only real meaningful action they could have by refusing to continue. Do any of you really think FIFA would legitimately investigate a formal complaint against Qatar?? The country they let kill hundreds of migrant workers??
This team has demonstrated their character and unity on multiple occasions now. If you’re not gonna back Boxall, Bell and the rest of the team, then you can’t call yourself a true supporter.
And if you have brown sugar in your porridge you can't call yourself a true Scotsman...
As an outsider I was pleased to see the All Whites stand up for what was right and refuse to play the second half. Same with the Irish U21s. Anyone who follows the sport knows that FIFA are deeply unserious people when it comes to anything beyond making as much money as humanly possible. They will do absolutely nothing which is why having individuals and teams actually take a strong stand is so important in my opinion.
I was just at the US-Mexico match where some of the Mexican supporters dared the match official to forfeit the match over their homophobic chant and while he ended it five minutes early, he didn't abandon it. They constantly call FIFA's bluff and they never follow through with their own protocols.
It's always very hard to prove anything in an incident like this, but by walking off this became international news and hopefully that has a small impact.
In the European press this incident has been largely reported in a factual way with very little analysis. Basically ‘NZ players refused to play second half against Qatar because of an alleged racial slur’. There has been constant racism going on in European football for ages with some particularly ugly scenes in Italy and most recently in Spain targeting Vinicius Junior of Madrid. But despite widespread condemnation very little gets done. I say good on you kiwis, if every team responded in the same way then the authorities would be forced to act. Don’t expect FIFA to do anything other than say they condemn racism but as the match officials heard nothing the matter is closed. Qatar is a huge cash cow for FIFA so they are not going to upset the relationship.
The problem is, it can't be up to a team to decide. That's why you have match officials, VAR and failing that a match review panel. Fifa should totally do a lot more. I can only think of a handful of situations where the referee stopped the game because of repeated racism issues. And yet we see and hear racism remarks, chants and gestures all the time.
There need to be clear and strict rules which are enforced by the refereeing team. Otherwise it's be impossible to manage.
Of course its up to the team to decide if they want to play against people who have racially abused them, Infantino said as much last week - “There is no football if there is racism! So let’s stop the games.”
If the refs can't or won't protect the players, the players have every right to protect themselves by walking off. Its a game of football, not forced labour.
The lack of enlightened minds in this thread is concerning. Hopefully not a true reflection of the Phoenix fan base.
Someone doesn't immediately jump on a band wagon and wants to see more evidence = unenlightened.
if it's one persons opinion versus another maybe, but the reaction from everyone that heard it was pretty blatant. Surely the amount of witnesses is all the evidence that you need?
On what would I base my trust on? I do not know anyone involved on either side of the ball. It is equally easy to take the NZ version as it is take the Qatari side for people that aren’t NZers. I have been around long enough and had enough experience to know that you can’t take on trust anything without some specific knowledge of the situation or the people involved.mrsmiis
Napier Phoenix
Without knowing what exactly what was said, how can we individually make our own assessment of whether it was racist or not? Sure we have the NZ players saying it was racist but this thread has shown we all seem to have different definitions and I want to know more before making my decision. reg22
Fitzy
I get that the point of forums is to talk shark and pretend we’re all experts, but fudge me the level of ignorance about racism in this thread is remarkable. It’s a major issue, directly relevant to NZ and can be perpetrated by anyone. Any argument along the lines of ‘but what about this other terrible thing’ is a ridiculous straw man argument. And anyone who thinks this is unfortunately just part of the game is showing their whole ass. Embarrassing behaviour.
Yeah, it's disappointing but not surprising. The excuses being offered are pathetic. There are no grey areas with racism.
Our team from our country took an affirmative stand where most have not in the past. There should be nothing but universal applause for what they did.
Anyone suggesting that they should have 'filed this thing in to a process' has never experienced racism or simply does not care that much about it.
I'm sorry, but if you have not been on the recieiving end of racism, you don't get to give it five minutes of thought and then file it under 'not a big deal'
because we trust our players (and their reaction). do you not?
The clear reaction by every NZer surrounding Abdurisag after the slur was allegedly said. The audible "woah, woah"s, Mata screaming "You can't say that, ref! You can't say that! Ref! Ref!", Tuiloma and Boxall instantly chasing Abdurisag, etc.
I trust that they are correct in their judgment, rather than collectively creating a huge lie and playing along to make themselves look like faux knights of progressivism
Oh my godddd bro some of these takes from people on this website are embarrassing. I thought Nix fans were supposed to pride themselves on tolerance and progressive thinking, but some of you losers couldn’t be further from that ethos.
The Qatari player OBVIOUSLY said something seriously offensive, that’s evidenced by the reaction of every all white within earshot.
Bell and the boys took the only real meaningful action they could have by refusing to continue. Do any of you really think FIFA would legitimately investigate a formal complaint against Qatar?? The country they let kill hundreds of migrant workers??
This team has demonstrated their character and unity on multiple occasions now. If you’re not gonna back Boxall, Bell and the rest of the team, then you can’t call yourself a true supporter.
It doesn't surprise me that one of the guys who thinks the NZ team walked off for no reason and there wasn't any real racism is also that guy who went off at one of the Nix women wearing a "woke" (Pride) armband. There are as many reactionaries and Tories here as liberals.
But I do have to re-iterate that question - if the Qatari hadn't said something unfeasibly offensive, why do you think the team would have taken the unprecedented walkoff action? Do you think that's something they just did for fun, when they were 1-0 up?
The really funny thing about the line that "the Qatari was darker than Boxall, how could it be racist" is that the people saying that are exactly the same people who keep saying that brown people are being racist against white people.
The Qatar allegations, if even made against another team I would question as there is no evidence. No reaction during the game prior to the incident, nothing said to the ref etc, which is highly unlikely.
But with NZ - you can clearly see the reaction - the only thing saving the Qatar player was Mata's head obscured his as he got up and clearly said something.
Players don't spontaneously erupt in universal anger and condemnation towards an opposition player. Something what was said, what we don't know, but it clearly has no place on the pitch.
