All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams

bloody scalpers

85 replies · 5,327 views

over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The economic rationale beind scalping is that it expolits an event promoter's tendency to fairness. NZF decide that they want everyone to be able to go to the game, and set ticket prices accordingly. At the family price of $100, virtually anyone could afford it, even if they had to make it two weeks' worth of entertainment money (and take sandwiches and a bottle of water that is sealed and less that 1l

What scalping does is exploit the over-demand created by a fairly priced commodity. If all tickets were sold via auction, the average price would probably be around what they went for, depending on how they were sold - obviously the last ones would be more. To argue that this is a free market in action is patently absurd - it's exploiting a market distortion (fixed prices) to rort prices in the opposite direction, thus creating a different but in this case unwanted distortion.

Ticketmaster sell some tickets via auction - hope and pray my friends that they don't get their grubby hands on the RoF. The prices for Vector events are always extravagant and no doubt Ticketmaster take more than their share.

Addicks2009-10-22 09:56:53

14/11/09

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

No one is forced to pay more than they value their attendance at. That's not exploiting 'over-demand', that is pricing attendance at true market value.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I checked those tradme sellers out, some seem genuine, but others are just profiting, if they'd not over bought then someone else would have got them at $29/$39 not $180...

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

If someone is willing to pay $180 what is the problem?Arsenal2009-10-22 12:07:36

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The problem is that someone is taking advantage of NZ footballs generous pricing. It s NZ footballs product which they are profiting off wthout permission. NZ football have jeoperdised the large but previously unknown potential for ticket sales for this event. They did this so as many people would get to see the game as possible, a noble act. Now some scavaging vultures are taking advantage for their own profit. That is the problem Arsenal. And Im sorry that you ar enot a fan of NZ football.

Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

And you should know about finacne and football. You support a club that sold off the invinsibles, one of the greatest achievements in English football, within a few years just to finance a bigger stadium.

Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Arsenal wrote:

If someone is willing to pay $180 what is the problem?

The guy or girl at the other end making $141 or 151 profit

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

NZ Football had no idea that the tickets would be as popular as they have proved (indeed I doubt anyone on here thought they would sell out so quick).

They set a price that they are happy with receiving. They sold out. They are happy.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

But guys, this event has not been monopolised by scalpers. Tickets were on sale and freely available for a very long time. The volume of people on Trade Me selling their tickets to bidders is pretty low - 8 when I just checked.

If we had masses of fans missing out because they never got the chance to buy before scalpers got in - like the sevens - then I'd see the problem. My mate who missed out, who I would like to see get to the game, acknowledges that he should have just gone along and got a ticket himself instead of relying on another procrastinating friend.

I'm going to the game and I really want to be there - but if someone offered me $2000 for my ticket, I'm pretty sure I'd sell. Some people are being opportunistic and "only" want $180... so I have to agree with Arsenal on this one (a first btw!), what's the problem.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

It's already been mentioned on this thread. But I want to add my 4 cents worth.

The trademe auctions are not scalping in my opinion. People who are wanting to go to the game are paying what they feel would be a fair price for the tickets.

What the seller is doing is morally questionable, but I've seen a lot worse (i.e. more than 8 tickets being on-sold at higher prices).

Central Hawkes Bay Nix
and tragic follower of Charlton Athletic

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

trademe auctions are ticket scalping, but like it has been said before, these tickets were on sale for months before it sold out. no one is being forced to pay above face value.

No one is ripping off NZ Soccer. they decided on their prices, they have sold out of tickets. they are happy.
If they are unhappy in any way, they should have priced their tickets higher, but they didn't.

end of.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

What I think - and hope - NZF did when setting the ticket price was think, "What can WE do to help get this team to South Africa?"....and one of the answers was do all they could to get a full house which could/should have a positive effect on the AW's in this game.

The happy by-product if they do make it to SA is the massive financial windfall NZF will receive. I guess what they've done is gambled on that happening, rather than pricing tickets at around $50-60 to cash in, in the short-term.

It would be really interesting to know (and we never will) at what price-point this game would NOT have sold out.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

yea, i think they priced it right. i think they would be hard-pressed to get half capacity with tickets at $50 - 60. my ticket number was around #130, but i wouldn't be able to go if they cost much more.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

the guys on TM are selling above market price, they are simply taking advantage of the fact that it is a sell out. In my mind this is wrong. If they cared about actually getting fans to the game they'd have it selling at the same cost they paid for it and maybe enough to cover postage. These people on Trademe are making a profit which automatically excludes certain buyers which is wrong.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

market price equals whatever a buyer is willing to pay for the item. market price is best provided in auctions as its the buyers who determine what price the item sells for, as opposed to a set price that the buyer must agree to

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

If they open the auction at face value (as one looks like it did) then I have some sympathy for them.

Except you can set a buy now price at the value of the tickets

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

scarf.man wrote:

How the hell can you endorse someone snapping up tickets with the view to selling them at a higher price to football fans? Its not NZF theyre ripping off its the fans who missed out on tickets when they sold out within the week (including some on this forum).

those tickets the scalpers bought could have gone to some of those geniuine fans who missed out,and now have to buy them off these dickheads for 10 times the price.

Cannot believe people on here are siding with the scalpers,when it is us the football fans theyre leeching off of.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Tegal wrote:

scarf.man wrote:

How the hell can you endorse someone snapping up tickets with the view to selling them at a higher price to football fans?

See, that's the bit we don't think has happened. The game did not sell out for a long time. It's the knee jerk reaction that is losing sympathy amongst those of us (well me, anyway) looking at it dispassionately.

What I think is happening is that people are willing to part with their own tickets if someone pays them enough.

How much would you be willing to miss the game for? For some people it's less than for others.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I dont believe that is what is happening if its being posted on trademe. Sure,fair cop if your offered the money by some random in the street(though to me thats sort of a grey area),but these people are posting on trademe (before any offer is made).

Its still ripping people off. And the arguments i see above about it not being on a mass scale,who cares? What your saying is i could have bought an extra ticket and put it on trademe for a lareger price,and it wouldve been ok that i ripped one person off $100+,as long as i didnt do it on a mass scale

Im sorry ill never agree with anyone that selling a match ticket for a larger price than it is worth is ok.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

in 2 weeks i don't have any income. i have a wife and a child. i would sell my ticket for $1000 easy. if there was demand for it, i would do it. why? because i now need to pay rent and buy food more than i need to be at the game.

this game didn't sell out in weeks. it sold out in months. if "football fans" missed out, it really is their own fault. they knew when the tickets went on sale and how much they were selling at.
yea, some fans have genuine reasons for waiting so long, but many were just lazy.
We could also argue that those "real fans" that missed out would be more than willing to pay a higher price simply because they would get more satisfaction out of going to the match.

you snooze, you lose.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

f**k here goes the high and mighty again. The game sold out within a week after the first leg. Saying those who booked after the first leg arent real fans and who cares if they get ripped of is bullsh*t,and iof everyone on here has this attitude them im going to cancel my account.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I didn't read that as a high and mighty. I read that as a statement of fact - if you waited months to buy a ticket and missed out as a result, then you have no-one else to blame. I only know one or two people personally who missed out and both admit it's their fault. Neither can afford the asking prices on Trade Me, but they don't get angry calling it scalping when it's just a handful of opportunists. No-one predicted this game would sell-out, so there weren't people stock-piling tickets for the purpose of re-sale as there would have been no point!

You don't like it, you don't have to bid on Trade Me.

Now, however, watch the extra tickets get snapped up - they are at a genuine risk of becoming scalping fodder as we all know those will go very quickly.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Those tickets on trademe could have gone to other genuine fans at the price they were meant to,instead of making the scalpers money. Just because its only a handful of opportunists ripping a small number off doesnt make it right.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Everton FC wrote:

Arsenal wrote:

If someone is willing to pay $180 what is the problem?

ï¿½

The guy or girl at the other end making $141 or 151 profit

Communist?Dave572009-10-22 14:53:22

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I can't believe it a thread about scalping football tickets in N.Z.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Crazy days.

I have had a mate of my brothers offer me $260 for 2 tickets I have that may not be used depending on circumstances. Doesn't want me giving them away to anyone at face value!

If I accept does that make me a scalper?

And don't anyone PM me about them thanks.

What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Thing is, like others have said I don't think the scalpers on trademe intentionally went out brought up 8 tickets which they intended to sell when it sold out. More likely, a select few realised they would rather get $100 for their ticket than actually go. So, those that want genuinely want to go will hopefully end up with the tickets.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Yeah I guess that is the positive side. Those that pay 1-200 really want to be there. hellobeaver2009-10-23 00:18:55

Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

sanday wrote:

I can't believe it a thread about scalping football tickets in N.Z.

Misty-eyed days indeed. What a crazy mixed up world we live in!

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

liverpoolfan1 wrote:

Lonegunmen wrote:

Maybe I am just too kind but if I had a spare ticket or three, i'd come on here and offer them at face value. I don't have any spare, just saying how I would do it if I did. If went on Trademe, I'd still sell them off for face value. Obviously true football fans (Un New Zealanders included) would really like to attend this most important game, why make it difficult for them??

Very noble LG, and not surprising from you. However, it's entirely possible someone would buy your face-value tickets then whack them back on Trade-Me for the highest bidder.

Just my 2 cents ... I'm not against scalping per se .... I believe in a free market with supply and demand etc and I have bought tickets off Trade-Me for sold out events I couldn't get tickets for through the usual channels. Someone made the very good point above that no-one expected this to sell out so quickly, so a very, very small percentage of people would have seen this as an opportunity to make money by buying multiple tickets then chucking them on Trade-Me when/if the game sold out.

And to say that "true" football fans will be missing out is a little misleading, given that tickets went on sale on August 25, and sold out on October 17. That's a pretty big window for "true" football fans to have bought their tickets.

this.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Id consider anyone who wants to be at the game a football fan,and anyone selling them at a profit as ripping off that football fan though. Regardless of the timeframe to buy...which was only less than a week for most people,as they would have waited until after the 1st leg before buying,which is a completely reasoable thing to do.

Just because someone has been lazy in getting tickets doesnt mean they are any less of a fan,and it most certainly doesnt mean they deserve to be ripped off.

Intent isnt an issue,trademe has a buy now price,of which people can use,or they could sell them at face value or give them away to a friend. Only possible grey area is being if someone offered you money for them,but even then its morally wrong.

I just cannot believe people are on these guys side.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I have used touts on a number of occassions (currently trying to get some concert tickets for Friday night via this method) and see them as a neccessary evil. People who didn't want to risk buying a ticket for a potentially pointless game (an attitude I cannot understand), or then within 5 days of knowing the result of the first leg really do not deserve any sympathy in my eyes.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I have to object to the idea that people who buy from touts are being ripped off. They are paying the amount that to them the ticket is worth, if that is more than the face price of the ticket. I'm a bit of a free market economist and to me it is a simple case of supply and demand especially in this case where the original tickets were widely available for a week. It's not like they sold out in 7 seconds

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Kylie on Friday Frankie mac?

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

Im not talking on an individual basis though. (see other thread

). Basically one way,fans get their hands on tickets for a low price,and the other way,fans get their hands on tickets,but some pay a higher price and the agent takes a nice fee having taken advantage. Surely option one is ideal. Except as you say,on a personal basis,scalpers can be handy if you can afford it.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

Kylie on Friday Frankie mac?

I wish.

Pink

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

scarf.man wrote:

unfortunately, scalpers are simply doing what the market demands as no one if forced to purchase tickets at a higher price, but if there is demand, it will happen. the buyer agrees to pay the price the scalper demands. if people were really that upset about it, they wouldn't buy the tickets off scalpers and would have purchased their tickets for the original price earlier. Leading to absolutely no market for scalping.

Edit: no, i am not scalping tickets! so don't hate me. it's just good economic theory put into practice.
this way everyone, who wants to, goes to the game at the price they place on the event

Perhaps these people might have missed out on tickets as scalpers were stocking up - that's where I have the problem. Edit - just read pages 3 &4 and realised this point is irrelevant in this case. Sorry.

However, if those selling on TradeMe and elsewhere bought the tickets with the intention of making a quick buck, then this is still unethical (and possilbly illegal) and relevant authorities should take some action. I'm with Tegal on this - I don't think this is a grey area.

I have attended the World Cup and had to supply a passort number when purchasing tickets online, and then show the passport both when I picked up the tickets, and when I entered the stadium (My name was on the ticket - if you purchsed more than one, you had to provide names and passport info of each person). While I understand that this is only a qualifier, it's an all-or-nothing playoff, not NZ vs Vanuatu FFS. I'm surprised that FIFA (and not NZF for obvious reasons) didn't make some sort of similar (but lesser) requirement for ticket sales for the playoffs in all confederations. (Or perhaps they've dealt with Ticketek before, and left us to our own devices

)

wolfman2009-10-23 05:03:41

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

This. No one is being ripped off. If you don't like the price being charged, don't buy it. Pretty simple really.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

They are being ripped off. Because there is only very small supply, I think there is about 10 tickets on trademe at the moment, the demand far exceeds the supply so prices for these few tickets are severly onflated over market value.

Oh Wellington is wonderful. We got the wind, the rain and the phoenix. Oh Wellington is wonderful.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

And people are paying what they want to, no more.

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