Football Ferns

imanixsupporter

Yakcall

I'm sorry, they are going to finish 2nd in the group and play in Wellington instead...

Call yourself a Ferns fan with such pessimism?! But in all seriousness it's great that we have a great chance to play a knockout game at home and not join South Africa and Qatar in the club of World Cup hosts to go out in the group stage. Here's hoping a Switzerland/Norway draw follows us beating the Phillipines and we wrap it up with a game to spare.

Edit: suppose a Switzerland win would do the job for us too but would increase the risk of us finishing second rather than first

A dodge an even bigger embarrassing bullet of not becoming the first women's world cup host nation to fail to make it out of the group. What a relief.

So if we beat the Phillipines as expected there is still a chance we finish 3rd in the group.  If the Phillipines lose all 3 games then our last game against Switzerland will be pretty much a must win game.  Goal difference might be a factor.

And if the Swiss - Phili game is anything to go by. The Philippines will set up in a defensive block and try and frustrate us, and catch us out on the counter.
That Vietnam practice game could well prove to be a very valuable practice.

if we beat Phillipines then we only need a point vs the swiss. 7 points guarantees a spot in the round of 16

AlfStamp

So if we beat the Phillipines as expected there is still a chance we finish 3rd in the group.  If the Phillipines lose all 3 games then our last game against Switzerland will be pretty much a must win game.  Goal difference might be a factor.

Interesting yarn with Erceg. In her words lost of love for international football, and tired of battling NZF for equality for the Ferns.  Along those lines. Political stuff as she calls it.

Seems a bit out of touch with the Ferns when she mentions Nayler! & Longo as 2 NZ players to watch at the WWC. And Wilkinson has explosive pace!
 

"I just hope that the resources have been put in place to make sure once the tournament is finished, we can capitalize on that and really help grow the game in New Zealand." @abbyerceg joins the Attacking Third crew to discuss about the Haka, the World Cup and the NWSL. pic.twitter.com/ooHDC4ipm0

— Attacking Third (@AttackingThird) July 17, 2023

well to be fair she hasn't been in or around the group for a fair while now, Longo only just coming back from injury and Nayler hasn't been good for aaaaaages! Longo has looked good when she has come on, certainly added a sprk to the midfield, but her fitness will be well off playing a full 90.

It would be interesting to actually see what the men's team get that the woman's team don't. 

The Ferns have had 50 games in the last 5 years, the All Whites have less than 30 in that time. 

Speaking of games, the Ferns might be eliminated Sunday. I'm optimistic they won't be, I think they have every chance and are definitely capable of doing enough to make it through to the next round, but unfortunately I think they will be out of the tournament by the end of next week regardless, can't see a way past Japan or Spain. What will be next for the Ferns after that? 

imanixsupporter

The Ferns have had 50 games in the last 5 years, the All Whites have less than 30 in that time. 

Speaking of games, the Ferns might be eliminated Sunday. I'm optimistic they won't be, I think they have every chance and are definitely capable of doing enough to make it through to the next round, but unfortunately I think they will be out of the tournament by the end of next week regardless, can't see a way past Japan or Spain. What will be next for the Ferns after that? 

Olympic qualifying and Olympics at a guess

I hope the coach goes.
Absolutely no imagination or initiative to put pressure on the opposition. No change,no surprise,no variation. 
Played into the hands of the opposition 

Yet from an NZ Football position she led the team to their first win at a World Cup, a draw againsta strong Swiss team. Sure a loss against Phillipines but still a success. Especially after the buildup games. There was a clear improvement, sure one step back, but definately improvements which is what was needed. 
I doubt Pragnell will be asking for Klimkova's resignation anytime soon. She has 4 years to go so I'd expect to see her build the team back for Olympics and the next World Cup.

theprof

Yet from an NZ Football position she led the team to their first win at a World Cup, a draw againsta strong Swiss team. Sure a loss against Phillipines but still a success. Especially after the buildup games. There was a clear improvement, sure one step back, but definately improvements which is what was needed. 
I doubt Pragnell will be asking for Klimkova's resignation anytime soon. She has 4 years to go so I'd expect to see her build the team back for Olympics and the next World Cup.

She's tactically dogshark, had no idea how to make decent subs and continues to enable the bullying culture the is pervasive in the ferns camp. I'd be more than happy to see the end of her.

The first two are legitimate fan opinions, but the last one needs plenty of evidence or not to be said.

Monto

theprof

Yet from an NZ Football position she led the team to their first win at a World Cup, a draw againsta strong Swiss team. Sure a loss against Phillipines but still a success. Especially after the buildup games. There was a clear improvement, sure one step back, but definately improvements which is what was needed. 
I doubt Pragnell will be asking for Klimkova's resignation anytime soon. She has 4 years to go so I'd expect to see her build the team back for Olympics and the next World Cup.

She's tactically dogshark, had no idea how to make decent subs and continues to enable the bullying culture the is pervasive in the ferns camp. I'd be more than happy to see the end of her.

What bullying culture is this?

AlfStamp

Monto

theprof

Yet from an NZ Football position she led the team to their first win at a World Cup, a draw againsta strong Swiss team. Sure a loss against Phillipines but still a success. Especially after the buildup games. There was a clear improvement, sure one step back, but definately improvements which is what was needed. 
I doubt Pragnell will be asking for Klimkova's resignation anytime soon. She has 4 years to go so I'd expect to see her build the team back for Olympics and the next World Cup.

She's tactically dogshark, had no idea how to make decent subs and continues to enable the bullying culture the is pervasive in the ferns camp. I'd be more than happy to see the end of her.

What bullying culture is this?

You'd think if it was still a thing it would be widely reported, given all the media attention the team has gotten the last few months.

I don't disagree re tactics, bu t like I said from an NZF point of view she's led the team to their first WC win and one goal from exiting the pool.

I've got no particular love for Klímková, but I've noticed a disturbing trend in discussing women's football where "bullying" is used as a dog-whistle for "lesbianism". (You definitely saw it in the WSAFC drama - older players were accused of trying to manipulate younger players into doing something with them that they didn't really want to do. In that case it was "go on strike", but you see the similarity of the insinuations.)

First, the positives: 2 clean sheets. 1 win, 1 draw, 1 loss. Fantastic crowds to support the team and also attending the other games, remembering this is predominantly a Boofhead country. Very impressed. Auckland deserves a special mention mainly because in the past I have questioned their ability to turn up when needed...and they have.

Now the negatives: A 6 year contract for a one dimensional coach. Let's be honest, that win surprised everyone, including the team and the two follow up games showed business as per normal.

The lack of tactics was alarmingly obvious - Route One long ball or a cross to Wilkinson - everytime. Sadly, Wilkinson's inability to trap a ball or pass to another kiwi player was shown up. With her height and build it was the tactic of the high ball. Yes, she scored one in 3 games as the main striker, only striker. 

But after the Norway game, I think everyone else except Klimkova had worked out this tactic. Hence, the Philippines and the Swiss were easily able to handle it.

The rest of the team certainly gave it their best. Lots of running and effort but it comes back to the basics. How to trap a ball and how to complete a pass to a fellow team mate. This did not happen, way too often. The other teams didn't really need to challenge for the ball as it was given to them.

No plan B. Klimkova seemed to lack any other ideas other than get the ball to Wilkinson. Which as soon as that was worked out - halfway through the Norway game, She didn't change anything. Sure, she might have subbed various players but the tactics stayed the same and were easy to nullify.

It has been and is fantastic that we have this tournament here in this country and in Australia. A breath of fresh air. What is needed now is a clear out of players not lifting up to the standards required at this level. 

There is good news. There appear to be a lot of youngsters on the horizon, hungry to prove themselves. And after this tournament, hopefully there will be a lot of young girls out there trying to get the skills required to step up to a professional level at the very least.

Doloras

I've got no particular love for Klímková, but I've noticed a disturbing trend in discussing women's football where "bullying" is used as a dog-whistle for "lesbianism". (You definitely saw it in the WSAFC drama - older players were accused of trying to manipulate younger players into doing something with them that they didn't really want to do. In that case it was "go on strike", but you see the similarity of the insinuations.)

Nah it's not that at all. Just the opinions of lower key former ferns.

Monto

Doloras

I've got no particular love for Klímková, but I've noticed a disturbing trend in discussing women's football where "bullying" is used as a dog-whistle for "lesbianism". (You definitely saw it in the WSAFC drama - older players were accused of trying to manipulate younger players into doing something with them that they didn't really want to do. In that case it was "go on strike", but you see the similarity of the insinuations.)

Nah it's not that at all. Just the opinions of lower key former ferns.

Okay, then I would like a link to detailed accusations, or, if it's not actually published anywhere, some more details about what "bullying" has actually gone on

True, she has led our team to a first win etc.  But Herbert coached the All Whites to 3 draws in South Africa, and I didn't want him to stay either.

Doloras

Monto

Doloras

I've got no particular love for Klímková, but I've noticed a disturbing trend in discussing women's football where "bullying" is used as a dog-whistle for "lesbianism". (You definitely saw it in the WSAFC drama - older players were accused of trying to manipulate younger players into doing something with them that they didn't really want to do. In that case it was "go on strike", but you see the similarity of the insinuations.)

Nah it's not that at all. Just the opinions of lower key former ferns.

Okay, then I would like a link to detailed accusations, or, if it's not actually published anywhere, some more details about what "bullying" has actually gone on

From memory someone posted about a year ago, how the daughter of a friend got called up as a young player for the Ferns for the first time. Something about how the experience was pretty horrible, some senior players protective of their spots went out of their way to make her feel unwelcome etc etc. 

Something along those lines. All second hand stuff obviously, believe what you want. No mention of player sexuality being the issue. More some senior players being quite horrible to young players coming in. Can't remember if the post mentioned when this was, or who was the coach. Could have been years ago it happened.

This type of problem (if it exists) is hardly a new issue unique to womens football. For years the All Blacks had a 'back seat of the bus' culture where older heads went out of their way to protect their spots in the team. Various successful cricket teams have had team mates who hated the sight of each other.

But remember with the Heraf saga, there was a split within the Ferns squad. Some players actually sided with Heraf. NZF to their credit after the wholly mess it became, and the damning report that followed - did throw significant resources at the Ferns in way of counselling services etc trying to create a united squad going forward.

Did find it interesting that when Erceg was on US TV last week she mentioned Longo, Wilkinson & Nayler as Ferns players to watch at the WWC! Nayler a very odd selection, almost like she was a close friend/favourite of Erceg's during her time as captain. Maybe I'm looking for dirt when none exists, but when Erceg was captain did she push for older players she was more close friends with to be selected over younger players. Who knows.

But this current squad looks pretty united to me. Agree with others Katie Bowen should be the new captain going forward. Suspect she would be popular choice amongst both older & younger players. You could see she was absolutely gutted about the Swiss result. Ferns obviously mean alot to her.

Be interesting to see if Klimkova 'transitions' any older players out of the team now. Again I see most of them wanting to continue going until Paris 2024.

And hopefully NZF can secure some quality friendlies for both Ferns & AWs at home, to build off the WWC. Though yes appreciate that ain't so easy.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/fifa-womens-world-cup-2023/132661534/fifa-womens-world-cup-football-ferns-coach-backed-for-another-knockout-push-in-2027

The year ahead (Football Ferns)

September 18–26: Two-match international window
October 23–November 1: Three-match international window
November 27–December 5: Two-match international window
February 5–March 10: Oceania Olympic qualifying (16-day window in this period)
April 1–9: Two-match international window
May 27–June 4: Two-match international window
July 8–16: Two-match international window
July 25–August 10: Paris Olympics (if qualified)

With Olympics only a year away and considered a major tournament in womens (unlike in mens), don't see a lot of players wanting to step away just yet. But hopefully after that tournament, you'd hope Ali Riley, Ria, Betsy Hassett, Flea, Nayler and Wilko will move on. 

lthomas20

With Olympics only a year away and considered a major tournament in womens (unlike in mens), don't see a lot of players wanting to step away just yet. But hopefully after that tournament, you'd hope Ali Riley, Ria, Betsy Hassett, Flea, Nayler and Wilko will move on. 

Is the Olympics for women also u23 with only 3 overaged players allowed?

siac

lthomas20

With Olympics only a year away and considered a major tournament in womens (unlike in mens), don't see a lot of players wanting to step away just yet. But hopefully after that tournament, you'd hope Ali Riley, Ria, Betsy Hassett, Flea, Nayler and Wilko will move on. 

Is the Olympics for women also u23 with only 3 overaged players allowed?

No. Senior womens like the World Cup.

After the quality we have seen at this world cup, perhaps its time to change to the same format as the men.

coochiee

siac

lthomas20

With Olympics only a year away and considered a major tournament in womens (unlike in mens), don't see a lot of players wanting to step away just yet. But hopefully after that tournament, you'd hope Ali Riley, Ria, Betsy Hassett, Flea, Nayler and Wilko will move on. 

Is the Olympics for women also u23 with only 3 overaged players allowed?

No. Senior womens like the World Cup.

Has Wilkinson retired? After those performances, it might be time. Ok, she scored a goal but she should and could have scored a lot more.

I wonder if its possible for NZ football to check out what Japan are doing...the women's team especially seems to be able to do things NZ can only dream of (passing, good tactics, scoring etc)...can we send a delegation over there?

Sidi 1

I wonder if its possible for NZ football to check out what Japan are doing...the women's team especially seems to be able to do things NZ can only dream of (passing, good tactics, scoring etc)...can we send a delegation over there?

Apparently the growth women's football stalled a bit after their 2011 WWC win (they were also runnersup in 2015), but they launched a fully pro women's league 2 seasons ago.

https://www.jluggage.com/blog/sports/why-is-the-japanese-womens-soccer-team-so-good/

Found this interesting, from above article.

Mixed-Gender Practice: A Unique Approach
One unique aspect of Japanese sports culture is the common practice of mixed-gender training. This inclusive environment has allowed female athletes to focus on personal development, playing in a more relaxed and effective manner.

Moreover, training alongside male counterparts from early ages has enabled Japanese women players to develop a competitive edge, learning to counter the speed and power of Western players.

Maybe Western Springs can lead the way in the local game.

Sidi 1

I wonder if its possible for NZ football to check out what Japan are doing...the women's team especially seems to be able to do things NZ can only dream of (passing, good tactics, scoring etc)...can we send a delegation over there?

When he was in charge of Player Development and coaching with NZFootball John Herdman developed the whole of football plan, he spent lots of time with different organisations observing and discussing best practice. He obviously went to England setup at St George and Clairfontain in France band spoke about how many thousand times wingers practiced certain movements or run’s during the 10,000 hours long term player development models. I was lucky enough to have a chat with him about it on a residential age group camp. This was 2011, and Japan training methods was certainly part of the mix to include. A lot of this is on the nzfootball website and is similar to the Aussie player development plan that is on their website too. Playing a variation of 4-2-3-1 or 433 and trying to develop more attacking players but recognising that we are not Spain or Brazil so trying to put a Kiwi spin on things. 

As the plans are all on line, we should all be on the same page as a country with our intentions. 

The best thing would be to make ALL coaching and referring courses free of charge and having mentors for coaches that are aspirational. That would help us develop a bigger pyramid of players and then the national coaches have more to choose between those that rise to the top. 

watching_from_far

Maybe Western Springs can lead the way in the local game.

... I don't get it

When is the next window for the Ferns? Hopefully they pick an under 30 team. That would be interesting. The older generation have had a heap of chances to show what they can do. Maybe include Esson so that they have an experienced keeper but give one of the next two matches to Leat. 

Unused sub

When is the next window for the Ferns? Hopefully they pick an under 30 team. That would be interesting. The older generation have had a heap of chances to show what they can do. Maybe include Esson so that they have an experienced keeper but give one of the next two matches to Leat. 

I suspect most of the old heads won't move on until after the Olympics. And maybe that's not such a bad thing. 

Don't mind if some of the old heads stick around a bit longer. but Klimkova has to start addressing our goal scoring issues by nurturing through younger potential. It's time for Wilkinson (if she continues at international level) to be a bench player, she might have more impact coming off the bench and using her size against tiring defences.
And I don't just mean Milly Clegg when I talk young players. Brown and Wisnewski proved at age group level that they can score goals that matter at big tournaments. Hannah Blake in the age group before them. These kind of players are at that age now where they need to be nurtured through and given opportunities with the likes of Hand, Rennie and I-P Riley. 
Otherwise we will just keep doing the same thing but expect different results. Which we know doesn't work.

Success of Aus has definitely made me reconsider our own campaign - can't help but feel like missing RO16 at our own World Cup we hosted is a big missed opportunity. 

I think what this world cup has really shown is just how far women's football has come and just how much potential it has. I'm not really sure sticking with the old hands, who are never going to improve much technically, is going to help us move the quality of out game forward.

Sure we will undoubtedly continue to slide down the rankings, thats ok its simply reality, but what we can't afford is for our game to stagnate or regress. Improvements must be made.

With that being said, I'm sure klimkova will simply pick her faves and ignore nurturing the young talent.

Ranix

Don't mind if some of the old heads stick around a bit longer. but Klimkova has to start addressing our goal scoring issues by nurturing through younger potential. It's time for Wilkinson (if she continues at international level) to be a bench player, she might have more impact coming off the bench and using her size against tiring defences.
And I don't just mean Milly Clegg when I talk young players. Brown and Wisnewski proved at age group level that they can score goals that matter at big tournaments. Hannah Blake in the age group before them. These kind of players are at that age now where they need to be nurtured through and given opportunities with the likes of Hand, Rennie and I-P Riley. 
Otherwise we will just keep doing the same thing but expect different results. Which we know doesn't work.

Klimkova got her WC selection pretty much right. So she should have with 20 plus games in the build up, and lots of opportunities to experiment. But it's a myth of think that she has favourites. If anything she's bought in quite a few fresh faces since Sermani's reign - helped by yes likes of Erceg, Anna Green & Rosie White exiting the Ferns. But mostly the young players coming through as yet ain't doing enough, to go into a Ferns run on 11.

Whether Klimkova got her sub choices right in the Filipino & Swiss games is however another debate. Jale on earlier? Why not give Clegg a crack?

But likes of Clegg, Brown, Wisnewski & Blake now need to stand out in the ALW as an absolute minimum. Like Wilkinson has in her time in the ALW. You have to stand out playing adults, not in age group stuff.

lthomas20

Success of Aus has definitely made me reconsider our own campaign - can't help but feel like missing RO16 at our own World Cup we hosted is a big missed opportunity. 

It's only going to get alot more difficult from here to get out a WC pool. That's unless FIFA expand the WWC to 48 teams, same as the men's.