Football Ferns

lthomas20

Success of Aus has definitely made me reconsider our own campaign - can't help but feel like missing RO16 at our own World Cup we hosted is a big missed opportunity. 

You can’t say any of that out loud! The Football Ferns have always been wonderful and treating them like professional sports people who can be criticised for poor performances is not okay! Really disappointed to hear this from Bowen.
 
The local football media has worked hard to find the positives from the dross we’d been served up pre-cup. Lucky they didn’t ask many of the fans. If that’s the mentality in the Ferns camp you’d think we won’t be building on these performances at all. 

A lot of people came out to see you and your sport. Pretending you were good pre-cup and that there’s nothing to see here won’t keep them coming back. One miserable performance in the rain and that’s that for the new casual fans. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/fifa-womens-world-cup-2023/132720366/fifa-womens-world-cup-the-politics-of-criticism-in-womens-football

You should read the piece you're linking too more closely if you think it backs up your angry venting.

Doloras

You should read the piece you're linking too more closely if you think it backs up your angry venting.

The question of whether women athletes should be criticised in the same manner as the men assumes that the two are equal to begin with. 

 Criticism can be healthy, but criticism of women’s sport is also too often rooted in misogyny, or as we have seen in the case of the USWNT this week, used as a pretext for making hollow political points.

If Will Jordan is beaten by his man on the outside to let in a try, it can be chalked up as a defensive lapse without critics emerging to suggest that maybe men aren’t suited to rugby.

Sure she says that. She doesn’t want to be accused of not supporting the Ferns!

She also says:

Nearby local football writers, who have dutifully covered the Ferns’ matches long before the women’s football bandwagon careened into town, listened in, brows furrowed.

Some of them had been fighting internal battles in their own newsrooms for years to cover women’s football. They’d written countless profiles on the team’s characters, brought attention to the injustices and ill-treatment players have faced, provided analysis of their games, and yes, offered criticism when they felt it warranted.

The Ferns had gone into their hometown tournament with a record of four wins in 24 matches since Jitka Klimkova took charge in 2021 - how do you hype up a team with a record like that? the football writers reasoned.

I personally haven’t seen misogyny, butI have seen A LOT of very valid football based criticism from the fans and tactfully stated notes from football scribes. 

Perhaps you also should read the whole article? 

If she was making a general point about women in sport perhaps I’d agree with her. But I think the football press in almost any of the country would have been much much more savage of the situation the Ferns have been in than the NZ football press has. Are you saying we should go easy in criticising their performance as they’re only women? It comes with professional sport, no? If you’re not good you will get journos analyising and saying what they think? 

For sure there will have been misogynotic critcism from fans. In reflection it's a line I may have even crossed myself. But the Ferns form pre the WWC, was truly awful.  

The Riley & Klimkova double act of 'We. Will. Beat. Portugal' - and then getting drubbed 5-0. You do a cringeworthy news conference like that, and then get absolutely smacked - you bring a lot of criticism upon yourselves, regardless of your gender.

If anything the NZ football media in the leadup were kind. But yes agree with some of what the writer said, about men not being called out for their body shape or other such dribble when they get beaten. But again didn't much read much along those lines about the Ferns in the buildup.

I think this article is a very balanced one. It makes the point that more criticism would be fair; but not all criticism is fair.

Doloras

I think this article is a very balanced one. It makes the point that more criticism would be fair; but not all criticism is fair.

Agreed. That’s the point the article was making. 
However Bowen was attacking the NZ football media it seemed? Which…
well it disappoints me that that is the case. 

After Norway the team needed to re-focus for the next game, The Philippines. It was not the time for Bowen to have a rant at the media.

For The first half of the Philippines game, they were very poor. At times they were lost as to what to do. Giving away stupid free kicks, passing suicide balls and no urgency which they had for the Norway game.

Interesting insight to the WC from Ali Riley here (and should add commentary on the progress of women's football on and off the field, and touches on period with Andreas Heraf as coach):

Mad how connected to everyone she is! 3 citizenships, American accent and speaks Swedish. 

I’m sad to see a lot of school fields fenced off on weekends now and other places shut too. When I started traveling I could just take a ball and go down to a park and there would be people playing and most of the time they’d be happy to include me. Football, like music, is really just one of those universal languages. It just brings people together.

Bullion

Interesting insight to the WC from Ali Riley here (and should add commentary on the progress of women's football on and off the field, and touches on period with Andreas Heraf as coach):

Yipe a good listen if you have the time. The stuck in traffic yarn pre the Norway game picked up by Stuff.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/fifa-womens-world-cup-2023/300950392/ali-riley-reveals-football-ferns-showed-up-late-to-fifa-womens-world-cup-opener

Thank you for giving me a space to talk about my World Cup experience and my optimism for the future, but also the darkest moment of my career and how it motivated me to fight for others ❤️ https://t.co/OHCeBr35Sv

— Ali Riley (@RileyThree) August 15, 2023

martinb

Mad how connected to everyone she is! 3 citizenships, American accent and speaks Swedish. 

I’m sad to see a lot of school fields fenced off on weekends now and other places shut too. When I started traveling I could just take a ball and go down to a park and there would be people playing and most of the time they’d be happy to include me. Football, like music, is really just one of those universal languages. It just brings people together.

Its a real problem with access to open areas to do anything like kick a ball etc.  The growth of the womens game and the massive growth in older age group sports has meant councils etc have found their available fields are pushed to the limits to cater for everyone. Schools in turn have similar problems, I went to Mt Albert Grammar and back when i was there we had 1500 students, now its 2500.  When I was 30 there were 2 Sunday league over age competitions in Auckland, now we have multiple over 30, over 35 and Sunday league competitions.  Then of course there are other sports having Sunday leagues and the growth of womens rugby and rugby league. Councils have been caught out not planning for this although on one level it probably wasnt something we expected to see, the huge growth in older age group team sports.

AlfStamp

martinb

Mad how connected to everyone she is! 3 citizenships, American accent and speaks Swedish. 

I’m sad to see a lot of school fields fenced off on weekends now and other places shut too. When I started traveling I could just take a ball and go down to a park and there would be people playing and most of the time they’d be happy to include me. Football, like music, is really just one of those universal languages. It just brings people together.

Its a real problem with access to open areas to do anything like kick a ball etc.  The growth of the womens game and the massive growth in older age group sports has meant councils etc have found their available fields are pushed to the limits to cater for everyone. Schools in turn have similar problems, I went to Mt Albert Grammar and back when i was there we had 1500 students, now its 2500.  When I was 30 there were 2 Sunday league over age competitions in Auckland, now we have multiple over 30, over 35 and Sunday league competitions.  Then of course there are other sports having Sunday leagues and the growth of womens rugby and rugby league. Councils have been caught out not planning for this although on one level it probably wasnt something we expected to see, the huge growth in older age group team sports.

The advent and use of artificial pitches has been great - I reckon its helped hugely lifting standard of play from low levels all the way up and also means you can play way more games on them without risk of cancellation. Councils should be investigating adding more asap

Bullion

AlfStamp

martinb

Mad how connected to everyone she is! 3 citizenships, American accent and speaks Swedish. 

I’m sad to see a lot of school fields fenced off on weekends now and other places shut too. When I started traveling I could just take a ball and go down to a park and there would be people playing and most of the time they’d be happy to include me. Football, like music, is really just one of those universal languages. It just brings people together.

Its a real problem with access to open areas to do anything like kick a ball etc.  The growth of the womens game and the massive growth in older age group sports has meant councils etc have found their available fields are pushed to the limits to cater for everyone. Schools in turn have similar problems, I went to Mt Albert Grammar and back when i was there we had 1500 students, now its 2500.  When I was 30 there were 2 Sunday league over age competitions in Auckland, now we have multiple over 30, over 35 and Sunday league competitions.  Then of course there are other sports having Sunday leagues and the growth of womens rugby and rugby league. Councils have been caught out not planning for this although on one level it probably wasnt something we expected to see, the huge growth in older age group team sports.

The advent and use of artificial pitches has been great - I reckon its helped hugely lifting standard of play from low levels all the way up and also means you can play way more games on them without risk of cancellation. Councils should be investigating adding more asap

All right for some.
I live in 1968. Guess how many gen 3 turfs we have.
Nearest we get is a couple of schools have concrete tennis courts with felt on it.

Comments from the Spanish Coach..

“It is often said that it takes a little time to realise an achievement like this, but I am perfectly aware,” he said.

“We have worked very hard, although there were people who did not want to let us work. I think we have to learn in Spain to value positive things. To let people do their job.

“That small percentage of people who were constantly frustrated and resentful must learn that you have to let people work.”

Makes me wonder...If we had kept Heraf where would we be now? One would imagine in a place much better. NZF should look at the Spanish and take note.

Showtime Nixie

Comments from the Spanish Coach..

“It is often said that it takes a little time to realise an achievement like this, but I am perfectly aware,” he said.

“We have worked very hard, although there were people who did not want to let us work. I think we have to learn in Spain to value positive things. To let people do their job.

“That small percentage of people who were constantly frustrated and resentful must learn that you have to let people work.”

Makes me wonder...If we had kept Heraf where would we be now? One would imagine in a place much better. NZF should look at the Spanish and take note.

If you can read that and say "that means we should have kept Heraf", you could say with equal sense "that means we should keep Klimkóva".

That is, if what you're getting out of it is "good results take time, value continuity"? Rather than "hire jerks who make women players uncomfortable", which is what I think you're saying

Showtime Nixie

Comments from the Spanish Coach..

“It is often said that it takes a little time to realise an achievement like this, but I am perfectly aware,” he said.

“We have worked very hard, although there were people who did not want to let us work. I think we have to learn in Spain to value positive things. To let people do their job.

“That small percentage of people who were constantly frustrated and resentful must learn that you have to let people work.”

Makes me wonder...If we had kept Heraf where would we be now? One would imagine in a place much better. NZF should look at the Spanish and take note.

Spanish coach is so much better that Heraf will ever be, probably even Klimkova

Doloras

Showtime Nixie

Comments from the Spanish Coach..

“It is often said that it takes a little time to realise an achievement like this, but I am perfectly aware,” he said.

“We have worked very hard, although there were people who did not want to let us work. I think we have to learn in Spain to value positive things. To let people do their job.

“That small percentage of people who were constantly frustrated and resentful must learn that you have to let people work.”

Makes me wonder...If we had kept Heraf where would we be now? One would imagine in a place much better. NZF should look at the Spanish and take note.

If you can read that and say "that means we should have kept Heraf", you could say with equal sense "that means we should keep Klimkóva".

That is, if what you're getting out of it is "good results take time, value continuity"? Rather than "hire jerks who make women players uncomfortable", which is what I think you're saying

Also didn't you constantly talk about sacking Uffie SN while a lot of other people made the point we shouldn't just sack him and pretty much made the exact point the Spanish coach made?

Travelling in South America I noticed that every spare piece of ground had some form of football field on it and people playing (both organised competitions and not) all day and well into the night. Of course we dont love football here to the same extent but really a love of any game should be enough to get you playing around anywhere you have room (and often not enough room - remembering broken windows as a kid). You are right though, closing parks doesn’t help does it?

AlfStamp

martinb

Mad how connected to everyone she is! 3 citizenships, American accent and speaks Swedish. 

I’m sad to see a lot of school fields fenced off on weekends now and other places shut too. When I started traveling I could just take a ball and go down to a park and there would be people playing and most of the time they’d be happy to include me. Football, like music, is really just one of those universal languages. It just brings people together.

Its a real problem with access to open areas to do anything like kick a ball etc.  The growth of the womens game and the massive growth in older age group sports has meant councils etc have found their available fields are pushed to the limits to cater for everyone. Schools in turn have similar problems, I went to Mt Albert Grammar and back when i was there we had 1500 students, now its 2500.  When I was 30 there were 2 Sunday league over age competitions in Auckland, now we have multiple over 30, over 35 and Sunday league competitions.  Then of course there are other sports having Sunday leagues and the growth of womens rugby and rugby league. Councils have been caught out not planning for this although on one level it probably wasnt something we expected to see, the huge growth in older age group team sports.

Beggars can't be choosers. But hope the Chileans are footing the bill. Long flights for all the squad for 2 friendlies, 1 not being visible.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/fifa-womens-world-cup-2023/300963459/football-ferns-to-play-behind-closed-doors-match-in-postfifa-womens-world-cup-return

The second fixture will be played behind closed doors at the request of the Football Federation of Chile.

After co-hosting the highest attended Women’s World Cup on record, the women’s game has never had a higher profile in New Zealand than it has right now.

Klimková spoke of wanting to “keep up the momentum” when the fixtures against Chile on September 23 and 26 (NZT) were announced on Saturday morning, but the Ferns must wait until 2024 to play another match in front of their home fans who showed up in record numbers throughout the World Cup.

Another overseas tour is close to being finalised for November, potentially against another South American opponent as the rest of the world is tied up with qualifiers for the Paris Olympics.

It's a shame the second fixture is behind closed doors and that we're not at home, but playing friendlies in the Americas is a long way better than playing friendlies in Europe when it comes to timezones.

I'd expect the first game to be at about midday or early afternoon on Saturday 23rd in NZ time... surely that timing works pretty well to be televised in NZ!

To be fair to NZF, there would have been a serious lack of options re Ferns games. All the other Confeds are busy.

AFC Olympic qualifying (eg Matildas playing Iran, Philippines & Chinese Taipei).
Pan American Games (CONMEBOL & CONCACAF).
UEFA Women's Nations League.
CAF Olympic qualifying.

Matildas momentum shows no signs of slowing after the FIFA Women's World Cup. Next three games are all sold out: 20,000 x 2 and 60,000.

Meanwhile, after playing two games in Chile last month, including one behind closed doors, the Football Ferns are not active this window. https://t.co/OuN4NznVef

— Phillip Rollo (@ByPhillipRollo) October 25, 2023

It amazes me that anyone thinks NZ can possibly sustain any so-called "momentum" in football support when we are in OFC. Our international fixtures, mens or womens, over a four year period is literally perfect for bandwagon/one-off fans. 

My pick - NZ Football will try bring the Ferns back next year, get a dismal crowd like the Black Ferns have been getting, and will hardly bother again after that. 

Sorry to be negative!

There must be a few 100 camp ferns rightly worried about some of the classy young ladies at the Nix taking their spots right now!

No doubt it's hard, but NZF need to somehow get the Ferns playing at home to capitalise on the WWC. They must be so thankful the Nix ALW team are doing so well.

Macey Fraser callup?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/301009238/football-ferns-to-face-colombia-twice-in-bogot-to-finish-the-year

Football Ferns v Colombia
December 3, 10am (NZT), Estadio El Campin, Bogotá, Colombia

December 6, 9am (NZT), Estadio Metropolitano de Techo, Bogotá, Colombia

If Macey Fraser isnt called up then the womens game is officially dead here

Showtime Nixie

If Macey Fraser isnt called up then the womens game is officially dead here

 Or, they could just leave a player 4 games into her professional career to stay in the setup that she's currently developing & thriving in? Wouldn't surprise me if she is called up (and she definitely will be at some stage), but giving her more time right now wouldn't call for that complete overreaction. 

Some people have realised they get engagement and attention from being permanently angry and predicting doom

I know it works for me

Maybe a volcano will see Fraser picked for an unavailable Hassett.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/133296429/icelandbased-football-fern-betsy-hassett-on-edge-due-to-volcano-threat

Macey Fraser has had more of an impact in 4 games than Hassett has in the last 4 years. She had only a handful of great games for the Nix, I really expected more from her. Most of the time she struggled to dominate like a player with 100 plus caps should do. 
Macey Isn’t 18, shes 21? And she’s been to two world cups and been on international tours. 
The Brazilian men’s team calls up a player 17 years old Emrick. 
So age has nothing to do with it. She is exactly what the Ferns need and I hope she’s off to Europe next year and the Nix get a $400k fee. 🤞

Unused sub

Macey Fraser has had more of an impact in 4 games than Hassett has in the last 4 years. She had only a handful of great games for the Nix, I really expected more from her. Most of the time she struggled to dominate like a player with 100 plus caps should do. 
Macey Isn’t 18, shes 21? And she’s been to two world cups and been on international tours. 
The Brazilian men’s team calls up a player 17 years old Emrick. 
So age has nothing to do with it. She is exactly what the Ferns need and I hope she’s off to Europe next year and the Nix get a $400k fee. 🤞

Hassett was pretty decent last year and it was noticeable when she wasn't on the pitch. I think Satchell, Rolston were the disappointing signings and contributed to a very poor offensive performance that season. 

Unused sub

Macey Fraser has had more of an impact in 4 games than Hassett has in the last 4 years. She had only a handful of great games for the Nix, I really expected more from her. Most of the time she struggled to dominate like a player with 100 plus caps should do. 
Macey Isn’t 18, shes 21? And she’s been to two world cups and been on international tours. 
The Brazilian men’s team calls up a player 17 years old Emrick. 
So age has nothing to do with it. She is exactly what the Ferns need and I hope she’s off to Europe next year and the Nix get a $400k fee. 🤞

Endrick has played 56 professional games for Palmeiras, Macey has played 4 for the Nix.

I do actually agree though that she should be called up.

lthomas20

Unused sub

Macey Fraser has had more of an impact in 4 games than Hassett has in the last 4 years. She had only a handful of great games for the Nix, I really expected more from her. Most of the time she struggled to dominate like a player with 100 plus caps should do. 
Macey Isn’t 18, shes 21? And she’s been to two world cups and been on international tours. 
The Brazilian men’s team calls up a player 17 years old Emrick. 
So age has nothing to do with it. She is exactly what the Ferns need and I hope she’s off to Europe next year and the Nix get a $400k fee. 🤞

Hassett was pretty decent last year and it was noticeable when she wasn't on the pitch. I think Satchell, Rolston were the disappointing signings and contributed to a very poor offensive performance that season. 

Out of curiosity checked out Satchell's stats at London City Lionesses (English 2nd tier). To date 8 games, 6 starts, 0 goals.
Lionesses 8th out of 12 teams in The Championship, after 10 games. Grace Neville has started 9 games.

Stating the obvious but Ferns will never improve, if the likes of Satchell are still the best we have.

https://us.soccerway.com/teams/england/millwall-lionesses-lfc/5255/

Tommy Rogic went from basically park football to win a Nike football academy challenge then snapped up by the mariners, then Celtic and Aussie national team. If you are good enough then select them. Fraser isn’t overwhelmed by any opponent seen so far and is very comfortable on the ball. I’m more than sure she would hold her own technically with any Football Ferns training camp. Can’t see why the previous Nix women’s coaches didn’t bring her into the squad, looks like she is more able to affect the game than a fully fit Whinham and stronger too so doesn’t get pushed off the ball as much. Maybe 2-3 years older than Whinham too? Anyway would be great to see her at least selected for their upcoming trip and then they can see how she compares say to Cleverly or Steinmetz. Imo if we have Percival then we don’t need Steinmetz as well. To win games and score goals we need more attacking players and just one defensive mid is enough. 

Cleverly, Percival and Steinmetz are all DM's so yes do we need all 3 in the squad. Out of all of those Steinmetz is playing the most regular football.
To Frasers advantage, Chance won't be in the Ferns for a while and Wisnewski is obviously injured. So she is competing with Longo, Collins and Hassett for an AM position. Her timing might be good considering other injuries / non availability.
Though I would still prefer to see Fraser focused on performing week in week out for the Nix rather than get too far ahead of herself after only a handful of pro games. (Keeping in mind Whinham needed a break from football mid Nix season, for what ever reason but was after a lot of public/media expectations put on her). But you would like to think the coaches would be in a good position to gauge where Macey is at mentally, and if such a quick call up and travel around the world is something she is up for and can handle.....without affecting her Nix performances.
Wilkinson is suspended for these games. Real bugger that Clegg is currently injured. So interested to see who will get called up in the forwards. With those absentee's I imagine Satchell will be included, but I agree with the comments above. 
Brown not really getting game time, But Hannah Blake has been playing well for Adelaide.

SN will be happy.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/301009394/the-rise-of-wellington-phoenix-midfielder-macey-fraser-and-her-imminent-football-ferns-callup

Blimey, back to Mikaela Moore. I'd gave given up on that one. Sooner have Van Der Meer.

https://stuff.co.nz/sport/football/133315718/football-ferns-recall-meikayla-moore-after-world-cup-selection-heartbreak