Football Ferns 2024 Paris Olympics

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

Olympics.  All about fair play. Surely Canada disqualified. Plenty of athletes get disqualified for breaking the most minor rules. This is a major rule.

 Given the news about their history of doing this I now think Canada will be trying to avoid liability for the sake of not incurring retrospective punishment. If they're disqualified from this Olympics and they've done this for years, then why would you not strip their previous title. Honestly I think that's can of worms for the IOC as well, which is perhaps why they've been slow to do anything more decisive. I can understand wanting to have thought this fully through tbh.

If the Olywhites can be stripped of the chance of going to the Rio Olympics by mistakenly playing an overage player in qualifying, then yes surely blatantly cheating like this deserves a stiff penalty. 

100%, one was a minor oooopsie the other is a blatant repeat offence.

I wonder if the format with two third placed teams making the quarters is impacting whether or not Canada is given point sanctions or whether Canada's group opponents get given the points from their games against Canada. The third placed teams in other groups can cry foul, NZ for example might go through to the quarterfinals as the third place team after 3 losses if they are given 3 points from the Canada game. FIFA/IOC can say, sorry our hands are tied on this as a result, if their preference is to do nothing, which as more and more time passes seems more and more likely. 

Regardless of what the Canadians did, I would feel very uncomfortable if we got 0pts or 1pt on-field but went through ahead of a more deserving team because of a potential Canada forfeit/annulment. 

Good decision - gives Canada a justifiably harsh punishment (but doesn't quite knock them out). But doesn't gift free points to other teams and mess things up for third place teams in other groups.

For us? I think it means beating Colombia would just about send us through

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/27/canada-womens-coach-bev-priestman-banned-from-football-for-a-year-after-spying-scandal

Herdman guilty too if Canada has been doing this for years?

Both of them were involved in NZF back in the day, did we do this too at some stage?

Marto

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/27/canada-womens-coach-bev-priestman-banned-from-football-for-a-year-after-spying-scandal

Herdman guilty too in Canada has been doing this for years?

Both of them were involved in NZF back in the day, did we do this too at some stage?

Back in the day. Drone technology wasn't at the same level as today. But I guess that now raises questions.

Ranix

Marto

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/27/canada-womens-coach-bev-priestman-banned-from-football-for-a-year-after-spying-scandal

Herdman guilty too in Canada has been doing this for years?

Both of them were involved in NZF back in the day, did we do this too at some stage?

Back in the day. Drone technology wasn't at the same level as today. But I guess that now raises questions.

In Canada - not shocked, seems to be a thing in Canada!
So with the Candians docked 6 points, they'll finish bottom of the table on 0, I assume the result goes in our favour then? or is the table made a complete mockery of and we'll have Canada with potentiall two wins and zero points and their opponents with the losses?

Herdman is a smug cod who has definitely been aware of and probably directing drone activity. Have a read of this:

Two years later, Honduras stopped a training session in Toronto during World Cup qualifiers after someone spotted a drone overhead.

I hesitate to say anything definitively, but there doesn't seem to any use of drones by us in Tokyo when we won gold. 

Those comments above by Herdman were when I was pretty sure we were doing this. But this sort of nonsense happens all of the time in CONCACAF. It's not always so technically advanced, but everyone is trying to gain an advantage and nothing is ever done about it.

One of the ironies for me is that it's been confirmed that we spied on Honduras before the World Cup qualifier. We definitely didn't spy on Mexico because they didn't train in Canada (they're no dummies)... the only home World Cup qualifier we didn't win is the one we definitely used a drone. 

I've always felt that this started with Herdman. The whole structure of how it was done is very John Herdman. So while Bev Priestman is taking the bullet at the moment, I don't think Herdman is going to get off clean in this.

I don't want to downplay what we did, because it's cheating and it's embarrassing. But I also don't think it's as uncommon as a lot of people are acting like it is. So I accept the punishment (while it is harsh on the players and I believe them when they say they didn't know. I wouldn't tell them if I were doing something unethical, it serves no purpose), but I do feel like it sets a pretty high bar.

imanixsupporter

Herdman is a smug cod who has definitely been aware of and probably directing drone activity. Have a read of this:

Two years later, Honduras stopped a training session in Toronto during World Cup qualifiers after someone spotted a drone overhead.

“I’d imagine there’s probably a lot of people in Canada that fly drones, I’m sure,” then-Canada coach John Herdman said at the time. “And when a big team like Honduras turn up I’m sure people are probably interested in what they’re doing when they come into our country. So I know for sure we won’t be heading into people’s countries too early because with drones these days, people can obviously capture footage. You’ve got to be really careful. So yeah, you got to be careful in CONCACAF. It’s a tricky place.”

Just imagine how awkward it would have been if Herdman took the All Whites gig and was coaching the Oly Whites right now.

it isn't the biggest deal, but as you say, it is cheating, and the Canada football staff and organisation have made it worse by trying to minimise and downplay it when caught.

Compare to Bielsa who when caught at Leeds (not using a drone, just sending a staff member to stand in a public place to watch their opponents' training) was upfront immediately, saying he didnt realise it was wrong, but admitted everything and apologised.

Bev priestman ludicrously tried to act like she didn't know what was going on, and Canada soccer & the COC tried to preempt sanctions by choosing their own punishment and hoping nothing further was done. Embarassment after embarassment. 

juneof86

I hesitate to say anything definitively, but there doesn't seem to any use of drones by us in Tokyo when we won gold. 

Those comments above by Herdman were when I was pretty sure we were doing this. But this sort of nonsense happens all of the time in CONCACAF. It's not always so technically advanced, but everyone is trying to gain an advantage and nothing is ever done about it.

One of the ironies for me is that it's been confirmed that we spied on Honduras before the World Cup qualifier. We definitely didn't spy on Mexico because they didn't train in Canada (they're no dummies)... the only home World Cup qualifier we didn't win is the one we definitely used a drone. 

I've always felt that this started with Herdman. The whole structure of how it was done is very John Herdman. So while Bev Priestman is taking the bullet at the moment, I don't think Herdman is going to get off clean in this.

I don't want to downplay what we did, because it's cheating and it's embarrassing. But I also don't think it's as uncommon as a lot of people are acting like it is. So I accept the punishment (while it is harsh on the players and I believe them when they say they didn't know. I wouldn't tell them if I were doing something unethical, it serves no purpose), but I do feel like it sets a pretty high bar.

Multiple U.S. Soccer sources told ESPN that they believe any investigation will find that John Herdman, who coached Canada's women's team from 2011 to 2018 and its men's team from 2018 to 2023, was a common denominator.

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/40654826/us-soccer-aware-prior-canada-spying-incidents

From that ESPN article posted by imanixsupporter - "Canada Soccer also acknowledged in its news conference that the men's team attempted to utilize drones to view training sessions during this past summer's Copa América, when it reached the semifinals."

That kinda sours their 4th place achievement last month if Canada Soccer are admitting to it at Copa America!

Also I know that it seems to be John Herdman who started a lot of this spying stuff - but he's not involved in either the Mens or Womens teams now and so Bev Priestman and other coaching staff are very much to blame that it is still going on.

And yeah it potentially ruins their sense of achievement for the gold at Tokyo with all these articles saying it's believed they did it there too - I hope it can be proven that they didn't do it at Tokyo because that'd suck for the players from 4 years ago.

So if Group A continues on form -> and it's Col > NZ, Fra > Can & then Fra > NZ, Can > Col then the table ends Fra 9 pts, Col 3 pts, Can (with 6pts for 2 wins then less the 6pt penalty) and NZ both on 0 pts.
The 3rd place team (be it Can or NZ) on 0 pts will be eliminated as both Group B and Group C 3rd placed team can only get a minimum of 1pt (from their fixture with their group 4th placed team).
Tough one to resolve without the penalty points deduction not being awarded to other teams in the group concerned.  
Currently both Group B and C benefit from the fact the 3rd placed team in Group A is likely to have fewer points given the loss of points within Group A.
 

If we beat Colombia tonight, we'd be pretty damn close to through. If we can't beat them, we won't beat France and deserve to go home.

They will have one of their better players in Ramírez (at Chelsea) suspended. She was sent off against France.

It's matchday in Lyon! 🇳🇿⚔️🇨🇴

Our Women's Football team take on Colombia in our second match of #Paris2024 🇫🇷

🎥 Watch live from 3am NZT on @skysportnz pic.twitter.com/EdXs9L1jxr

— New Zealand Football 🇳🇿 (@NZ_Football) July 28, 2024

How's Frasers injury?

Bowen is holding this together 

20240728_184751.jpg 2.66 MB

I keep thinking its so empty but then see bigger crowds at other games at this tourny... guess we are just not a drawcard!

Worried about this start - we are giving Colombia too much creative license and space to shoot.

That was coming...

Pretty similar to yesterday's game. Our midfield ain't winning it or distributing it,our towards cannot hold it up.
Our back 4 our battling their socks off,admirably for the most part

Don't let the score deceive anyone, that was one of the worst Ferns halves I've seen in recent memory.

No ability to keep the ball, giving the Colombians too much space and freedom, hardly any game plan even after we went behind. Bowen and Leat are doing alright, the rest not up to standard. Frankly we are lucky not to be down by 2 or 3 goals already. Taylor midfield experiment needs to end already, Steinmetz has gone backwards for the national team since having a great World Cup. It's hard to even tell who our forwards are supposed to be at times because they have to constantly drop deep to get the ball!

Just hoping the coaches have seen the same sharkshow we have and completely change things up for the second half. Oh, and we learn how to pass the football.

Subs Longo and Jale making a difference (replaced Steinmetz and Clegg). We still look second-best but a more even game now and we're at least having a real attack every now and then. Ally Green now replacing Jacqui Hand curiously.

Better second half, but we have to more positive 

 

 

Stotty almost scored goal of the tournament! Great control but volley from outside the box goes just wide

So similar to yesterday's mens game, just our rear guard work at the death was better. Bowen and Stott did well for me.  Barry tried hard and got better,but is better as a back up for Bowen and Stott I think. Foster should play left back. Longo added something ,but otherwise we were much of a muchness - out muscled by a Colombia side who weren't keen on giving the ball away - unlike us! Dunno where Colombia are ranked, but they were several steps up from us all round

Bowen, Stott, and Bott were very strong. Longo made a real difference. No one could hold onto the ball up front. Kitchen looked good till ran out of steam. Colombia too good.

Columbia's goals were very good, 1st one in particular. So many of our players in front of it though, someone should have blocked it - impossible for the keeper.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350358713/scandal-hit-canada-stun-france-last-gasp-goal-stay-alive-paris-olympics
whole pool is even more of a joke now, with Canada on 0 points after two wins and if they beat Columbia they could still qualify!

Hah, wait till they find evidence of spying on the French team too!

theprof

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350358713/scandal-hit-canada-stun-france-last-gasp-goal-stay-alive-paris-olympics
whole pool is even more of a joke now, with Canada on 0 points after two wins and if they beat Columbia they could still qualify!

 I mean if they beat every team they've played themselves out of the sanction, surely we can just let it go

MetalLegNZ

How's Frasers injury?

Jimmy Coenraets says he heard from New Zealand on @UtahRoyalsFC midfielder Macey Fraser’s injury at the Olympics and they said she will likely be out for tomorrow’s match against Colombia but could be back Wednesday against Amandine Henry and France.

— Caleb Turner (@calebturner23) July 28, 2024

Colombia looked a really good team with some players in a different class than us. We actually scrambled really well at the back a few times to keep the score to what it was.