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Dave57 wrote:
Sepp blatter bloody goes on all the time about how football and politics should not be mixed. Look what he's just done... If it were more than just a goalkeeper being refused a visa then it'd be understandable. I dont blame the NZ govt-they set the restrictions and therefore have to stick to them otherwise they are pretty much worthless (and it would set a bad precedent). The blame lies with the Fijian football association-it is childish and disgusting that they would do this after players like Killen have risked their places in their respective club teams to make this fixture and NZF have spent 200G on the match.
 
I'd like to see some repercussions for Fiji. And NZ govt to continue to force the matter with fifa-they must learn to respect countries international policies.
 
but that is bollocks.  As I understand it, the rules are on family members - a future, possible, father in law is not a family member.  On the radio, the government just said that there is a relationship between the 2 people, so does that mean neighbours can't come, people work in the same office as someone whose family member is in the army can't come?
 
I can't wait for the Fijian 7's team to get turned away the day before the 7's start in a few months 
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Dave57 wrote:
Gumboot wrote:
I can't belive this.  Not only do we lose $200K but what about the impact it will have on Fiji. 
 
Um they are the ones that appealed to fifa and caused this..

Why shouldn`t they appeal? If it was our player refused entry to Fiji i would expect FNZ to appeal.
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Baiter wrote:

FIFA play games with how many countries politics ? 
 
Examples please.
 
It is a condition of FIFA affiliation that a country's FA is free from political involvement. FIFA only step in when politics interfere with football. Poland have been in trouble because the Polish FA has been taken over by the Polish government after match-fixing scandals - why wouldn't FIFA step in? Poland should know better, as Greece came close to the same thing when their government decided to interfere with their FA in 2006.
 
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Last political diatribe:
 
But answer these questions...
 
Question 1: Which country would you rather live in?
 
Fiji, China, Nth Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Cuba
 
Question 2: What country does the NZ Govt hate most?
 
f**king work that out...
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Dave57 wrote:
Um they are the ones that appealed to fifa and caused this..


I'm going to chuck in an ill-informed opinion here, but do we really think the 2nd and 3rd best keepers in fiji are much worse than the first ?

It's not like he plays in Serie A and the rest play in Fiji is it ?

They've done it to make a scene...
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Stevo wrote:
Last political diatribe:
 
But answer these questions...
 
Question 1: Which country would you rather live in?
 


Cuba... it looks lovely on telly.
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Dave57 wrote:
Sepp blatter bloody goes on all the time about how football and politics should not be mixed. Look what he's just done... If it were more than just a goalkeeper being refused a visa then it'd be understandable. I dont blame the NZ govt-they set the restrictions and therefore have to stick to them otherwise they are pretty much worthless (and it would set a bad precedent). The blame lies with the Fijian football association-it is childish and disgusting that they would do this after players like Killen have risked their places in their respective club teams to make this fixture and NZF have spent 200G on the match.
 
I'd like to see some repercussions for Fiji. And NZ govt to continue to force the matter with fifa-they must learn to respect countries international policies.
 
Yeah, look at what FIFA have just done. They've intervened when politics dictated who was allowed to play football. How dare FIFA stick to their word.
 
And yeah, how dare Fiji complain when the NZ government tells them which players who they can pick. They're just being childish. It's not as if we'd complain if Fiji decide Paston and Bannatyne aren't allowed in on Wednesday. Of course we wouldn't. Ricki would just play without a goalkeeper.
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Hard News wrote:
Dave57 wrote:
Um they are the ones that appealed to fifa and caused this..


I'm going to chuck in an ill-informed opinion here, but do we really think the 2nd and 3rd best keepers in fiji are much worse than the first ?

It's not like he plays in Serie A and the rest play in Fiji is it ?

They've done it to make a scene...
 
but they have every right to.
 
It sets a precident that could potentially stop Killen playing against the Asian 5th placed team (if, say, Taiwan declares war on Raumati, and anyone who ever lived on the coast cannot come in).  Imagine how the govt would react if that happened?
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Batty, Spellacy... I'm struggling to see a downside ?
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Well as far as not mixing sport and politics we mixed them first by not allowing their keeper in. It wasn't FIFA who started it by cancelling the match it was us who started it by getting politics involved in the first place and that's what's caused all this bullsh*t.
 
The government should just realise they can't push FIFA over. They aren't the IRB or the ICC, and the sooner they realise that the better.
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Dave57 wrote:
Sepp blatter bloody goes on all the time about how football and politics should not be mixed. Look what he's just done... If it were more than just a goalkeeper being refused a visa then it'd be understandable. I dont blame the NZ govt-they set the restrictions and therefore have to stick to them otherwise they are pretty much worthless (and it would set a bad precedent). The blame lies with the Fijian football association-it is childish and disgusting that they would do this after players like Killen have risked their places in their respective club teams to make this fixture and NZF have spent 200G on the match.
 
I'd like to see some repercussions for Fiji. And NZ govt to continue to force the matter with fifa-they must learn to respect countries international policies.
 
Oh for f**ks sake! Would we have accepted them turning away Chris Killen next week? The Fijian FA are just looking out for themselves.
 
Blatter's no angel but at least FIFA are being consistent and pragmatic. International football (in fact all international sport) simply couldn't operate under the conditions that our own government is trying to enforce.
 
 
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Hard News wrote:
Dave57 wrote:
Um they are the ones that appealed to fifa and caused this..


I'm going to chuck in an ill-informed opinion here, but do we really think the 2nd and 3rd best keepers in fiji are much worse than the first ?

It's not like he plays in Serie A and the rest play in Fiji is it ?

They've done it to make a scene...
 
Is that the point? Would it be okay then if FIFA brought in a skills-assessment criterion when determining if politics can dictate player selection?
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just been on Newstalk ZB to ensure the Fijian 7's team will not be here next year.
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Hard News wrote:
Stevo wrote:
Last political diatribe:
 
But answer these questions...
 
Question 1: Which country would you rather live in?
 


Cuba... it looks lovely on telly.

How about Thailand. Very friendly military in charge there.

sanday2007-10-12 16:28:18
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Yeah, wonder if Thaksin wants another football team ?
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Hard News wrote:
Stevo wrote:
Last political diatribe:
 
But answer these questions...
 
Question 1: Which country would you rather live in?
 


Cuba... it looks lovely on telly.
 
Cuba does look like a lot of fun.
 
I've got a future father-in-law. He's alright but if I thought he was going stop me going on my cheapo holiday to Fiji I would probably reconsider the situation!
 
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Dave57 wrote:
Sepp blatter bloody goes on all the time about how football and politics should not be mixed. Look what he's just done... If it were more than just a goalkeeper being refused a visa then it'd be understandable. I dont blame the NZ govt-they set the restrictions and therefore have to stick to them otherwise they are pretty much worthless (and it would set a bad precedent). The blame lies with the Fijian football association-it is childish and disgusting that they would do this after players like Killen have risked their places in their respective club teams to make this fixture and NZF have spent 200G on the match.
 
I'd like to see some repercussions for Fiji. And NZ govt to continue to force the matter with fifa-they must learn to respect countries international policies.
[/QUOTE]
 
Oh for f**ks sake! Would we have accepted them turning away Chris Killen next week? The Fijian FA are just looking out for themselves.
 
Blatter's no angel but at least FIFA are being consistent and pragmatic. International football (in fact all international sport) simply couldn't operate under the conditions that our own government is trying to enforce.
 
 
 
If we had that kind of political situation and mark paston got turned away because of a govt policy decided long before the game was an issue i dont think we'd have the right to complain. We'd just play Glen Moss. (chris Killen is hardly a good comparison). NZ govt simply had to stick to their policy whether they wanted to or not. There would simply be far to many repercussions if they didnt.
 
However the nature of the goalkeeper to the military member is an issue. But the sanction made by the govt were aimed to have an impact on fiji, that is the whole point of them.
 
It is just unfortunate that Fiji appealed to Fifa and Fifa took this stance. Though Fifa must worry about the precedent they would set if they allowed a player to be denied a visa in this way. Most of the blame is imo with Fiji.

 

[QUOTE=Hard News]
I'm going to chuck in an ill-informed opinion here, but do we really think the 2nd and 3rd best keepers in fiji are much worse than the first ?

It's not like he plays in Serie A and the rest play in Fiji is it ?

They've done it to make a scene...
 
My thoughts exactly. There is also the issue of the impact on supporters in your situation. Gutts mate.
Dave572007-10-12 16:33:55
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After all the credibility gained for football by the Phoenix and the Beckham show something like this gets us a big dose of egg on face.  An excellent opportunity, post World Cup Rugby debacle, to really push the beautiful game and we get this disgrace. 
 
Does anybody really believe Winnie P will suffer any consequences from this?  The Teflon MP?  Yeah, right.
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Next week.  The Bula Boys feeling fresh from the no game against the All Whites.  35 degree heat.  Fired up about their victory over the NZ do-gooders.  I'm starting to get itchy balls...
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Dave57 wrote:
If we had that kind of political situation and mark paston got turned away because of a govt policy decided long before the game was an issue i dont think we'd have the right to complain. We'd just play Glen Moss. (chris Killen is hardly a good comparison).
 
Thanks for clarifying. So NZ has a specific sanction against Fijian goalkeepers? That must be in the fine print somewhere!
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HN is dead right. Something smells especially as it looks like FIFA have done a U turn from 2 days ago. My guess is Fiji want the game played in a 'neutral' venue which suits them ie hot with a bumpy pitch with grandstands populated by raving anti-colonial pro Fiji supporters. That, along with NZ's  players who have come back from Europe and the US possibly not being available, would give Fiji a fighting chance against us.

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It is very hard to believe that not one Fijian sevens player had a similar "relationship"with a member of the military.Also the ability of the player refused a visa is irrelevant.
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sanday wrote:
Hard News wrote:
Stevo wrote:
Last political diatribe:
 
But answer these questions...
 
Question 1: Which country would you rather live in?
 


Cuba... it looks lovely on telly.

How about Thailand. Very friendly military in charge there.

 
Maybe we can arrange a friendly for Saturday against Burma?
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Dave57 wrote:
If we had that kind of political situation and mark paston got turned away because of a govt policy decided long before the game was an issue i dont think we'd have the right to complain. We'd just play Glen Moss. (chris Killen is hardly a good comparison).
 
Thanks for clarifying. So NZ has a specific sanction against Fijian goalkeepers? That must be in the fine print somewhere!
 
Yes, just the goalkeepers. We dont mind the strikers as they wont get the ball.
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Ill be voting National

Wolfben2007-10-12 16:40:13
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Dave57 wrote:
If we had that kind of political situation and mark paston got turned away because of a govt policy decided long before the game was an issue i dont think we'd have the right to complain. We'd just play Glen Moss. (chris Killen is hardly a good comparison). NZ govt simply had to stick to their policy whether they wanted to or not.
 
Like they didn't with the sevens? They didn't seem to mind about sticking to it then? And that's part of the problem - they already let Fiji around it once. Why would Fiji have any reason to suspect anything different this time.
 
The sanctions specifically quote sport as an allowable exception, hence they could have let the guy in and stayed within the policy - especially as it's not even the keeper's family, it's his girlfriend's family... they're not married.
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Could we play this game anywhere we want? How about in London in the european summer break. Or does it have to be played in Oceania?
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Dave57 wrote:
 
If we had that kind of political situation and mark paston got turned away because of a govt policy decided long before the game was an issue i dont think we'd have the right to complain. We'd just play Glen Moss. (chris Killen is hardly a good comparison). NZ govt simply had to stick to their policy whether they wanted to or not. There would simply be far to many repercussions if they didnt.
 
 
are you really that stupid that you think that this issue is restricted to only goalkeepers?  Is Killen a bad example because he is a striker?
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This is absolutely pathetic. I hope FIFA really show the NZ govt up and take the wind out of their sails!

I was in Fiji less than a month ago and learnt a bit about the Bainimarama government, and although it isn't democratic, if you get any info that doesn't come from a biased media outlet you will find that Bainimarama is actually doing a good thing - especially since his political rival is racist against the large Indian population in Fiji.

And what does the NZ govt think the goalie is going to do? It's not like he's going to blow up NHS. It's just a shambles and whoever didn't give that goalie the Visa should get sacked and have to give NZ Football and Fiji Football compensation!

I also strongly plead with all yellowfever members in Wellington to go to the Beehive and protest.loyalgunner2007-10-12 16:44:42
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rightstr wrote:

HN is dead right. Something smells especially as it looks like FIFA have done a U turn from 2 days ago. My guess is Fiji want the game played in a 'neutral' venue which suits them ie hot with a bumpy pitch with grandstands populated by raving anti-colonial pro Fiji supporters. That, along with NZ's  players who have come back from Europe and the US possibly not being available, would give Fiji a fighting chance against us.

 
I don't think it's as complicated as that. We tried to ban their goalkeeper. They got pissed off and complained. FIFA enforced their own rules. The only people who didn't see this coming were our own Government.
 
 
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After all the credibility gained for football by the Phoenix and the Beckham show something like this gets us a big dose of egg on face.  An excellent opportunity, post World Cup Rugby debacle, to really push the beautiful game and we get this disgrace. 
 
Does anybody really believe Winnie P will suffer any consequences from this?  The Teflon MP?  Yeah, right.


On National radio their sports commentator has smugly  made the point that this is good news for rugby after last weeks debacle in Cardiff  and the on going Howlet v's Peugeot cars saga!!
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what about when Ba played here?  I take it there were no relationships with any military staff from any of there players or staff.
 
Because I do imagine that Winston checks all Fijians trying to come to the country.
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santy wrote:
I just wana go to parliament and start sing who are ya!!!!!!
 
Brilliant idea - I'm keen
 
ok so far we have four people. Plenty to make an impression - especially if we get our shirts off
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Dave57 wrote:
 
If we had that kind of political situation and mark paston got turned away because of a govt policy decided long before the game was an issue i dont think we'd have the right to complain. We'd just play Glen Moss. (chris Killen is hardly a good comparison). NZ govt simply had to stick to their policy whether they wanted to or not. There would simply be far to many repercussions if they didnt.
 
 
are you really that stupid that you think that this issue is restricted to only goalkeepers?  Is Killen a bad example because he is a striker?
 
(are u really so thin that u'd dance around topless on international tv)
 
Um no-i dont. and in this one i was just trying to talk about the equivalent for nz (my post before was a sarcastic one)
 
The player denied visas would probably have an impact on whether they (or we-if we were in that situation) would appeal. He's a bad example because he's our star player and really would have an impact on the game if we didnt have him.
 
 
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Who the player is just isn`t relevant. 
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sanday wrote:
Who the player is just isn`t relevant. 
 
true, i got carried away defending a point id made .
 
I'm looking forward to seeing the news. Hopefully the tough Qs will be made to Winston, fiji fa and fifa
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Kiwi Jambo wrote:
After all the credibility gained for football by the Phoenix and the Beckham show something like this gets us a big dose of egg on face.  An excellent opportunity, post World Cup Rugby debacle, to really push the beautiful game and we get this disgrace. 
 
Does anybody really believe Winnie P will suffer any consequences from this?  The Teflon MP?  Yeah, right.


On National radio their sports commentator has smugly  made the point that this is good news for rugby after last weeks debacle in Cardiff  and the on going Howlet v's Peugeot cars saga!!
 
And it must be a novel experience for NZ Football being shot in the foot by someone other than themselves!
 
terminator_x2007-10-12 16:53:03
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See below - this means that the Fiji Sevens team will always be granted Visa's, as the sevens is an international tournament.... so we will see the Fiji team here next year...  Its not quite a double standard

Fijian sports teams and Fijian sportspeople at all levels will be banned from coming to New Zealand for the purposes of sport, unless international sporting and legal obligations require otherwise.

As provided for in arrangements after the 2000 coup, where New Zealand is hosting an international sports tournament which requires acceptance of international participants, entry will not be banned, subject to those concerned meeting other immigration requirements.




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