Ricki Herbert 2005-2013

can someone with more knowledge of football than me please tell me an example of great coaching from Ricki? I don't mean good results but good examples of awareness or tactics or whatever. That's not rhetorical; I'm curious.

It was Ricki's job to get this team ready for these 2 fixtures (using the ONC and Confeds Cup as the key fixtures).  He hasn't done that.  In many ways he has gotten lucky that Roux has turned up when he has so he has another option to play tonight - if this game was 3 months earlier, despite the obvious need for change we would be looking at the same uninspired team that we saw trot out in Mexico.

What should have happened is 3 years ago Ricki should have identified a replacement for any player who was possibly not going to be here in peak condition now, and stuck with those players. If it was Hogg, then Hogg is told that you are the number 2 left back now, and he is involved in every squad, and plays some significant minutes.  If someone better comes along, fine - we have a better option to replace Hogg.  But the key is if no one better comes along we have a viable option to play in the significant matches.  Lochead was a terrible option to play the other night, but (as has been pointed out on numerous occasions), we had no one else.  That should never had been the situation.

To your question about it being Hodgson's job to develop a replacement to his players, obviously it is not.  What is part of his job, though, is to ensure that there are options when players are unavailable, which is why someone like Kyle Walker has a dozen or so caps, and Lallanna is earning his second one against Germany.

It does seem to me that Ricki supporters credit Ricki with good results, and blame the players for bad ones (it wasn't Ricki who missed that tackle! etc)

2010 WC I saw players playing out of their skin, especially Paston. That could be cos of Ricki's motivation of course. But that's why I asked about examples of Ricki's coaching - maybe I'm wrong and he's done stuff that I haven't picked up on.

Which is the direct opposite of the Ricki non-supporters.

For the record, I'm neither - I want what's best for the All Whites, and for football in New Zealand. Ricki took the All Whites to the highest possible level, in conjuction with a couple of (by our standards) exceptional players with some able lieutenants. It was never going to happen again this WC cycle, we simply don't have the same quality as 09/10; or the depth to support them.

We do however have some potential... the next four years are about bringing the right people into NZF (not just a coach/mgr, but across the organisation) who can allow/enable us to maximise that potential over the next four years and beyond.

My only hope is that is allowed to happen.

My only fear is that it won't. 

Can't you say the opposite for Ricki haters. Blame Ricki for bad results, praise players for good.  Any reasonable person would say most results are dependent on having a good strategy (coaching), and being able to implement it successfully (players). It's always going to be a combination of both, so blaming just the coach, or just the players, is far too simplistic. 

In my view, Ricki has some weaknesses as a coach. All coaches do. But over the course of 8 years in charge, he's done a pretty good job. He probably could have done a better job at creating a succession plan in the event of Nelsen (likely) retirement before this World Cup, and shift to a more conventional back 4. In some ways that was made difficult by a complete dearth in right backs, and a lack of friendlies and time together to try blood replacements.

3 years ago I'm sure there are very few people here who said that his contract shouldn't have been extended. 

As a National coach your job is to mould  the team into an effective unit. You have to make do with the players available, good or bad.

Very difficult for a NZ coach as he has very limited time with players as a lot of them are from overseas. All these players come to training camps with different ideas of how to play and it will not be an easy job with the limited time available to change things to what you want.

, maybe it happened like this:

1) Ricki believes that he holds all the cards and does interview hinting he might stay on

2) NZF have a quiet word to him and tell him that there is no chance he is staying on

3) Ricki gives interview he is going to stand down

Would be a little like this:

1) Phoenix board tell Ricki that he has been relieved of his duties, but will announce it as moving him to a Director of Football Consultant

2) Ricki says that is not happening , and if they want shot of him they will have to pay out his full contract

3) board say that due to him breaching his contract he is getting no pay out and an either be sacked or move to a Football Consultant position.

4) Ricki officially gets moved to Football Consultant at the Phoenix.

What Ricki originally says and what actually happen are not always the same

I'm not sure how I feel about him staying on after the Honiara horror (there were factors in that whereby you cut him some slack but they should have never lost that) but you can certainly say that for the next coach coming in, there is a bloody good springboard of potential that has been around that squad. I know Hard News calls out the fact that a couple were at U20s and did stuff all etc but I think the next coach has been left a young team and not a team of old guys that need to be cut. Bertos, Lochhead and co know that their time has come. Smeltz may stick for a couple of years but the rest are done.

In that respect, with the results he has achieved, I think he has done a decent job.

JV spreads the meme that I'm a brain-dead Ricki lover, but that's just because he can't understand that I don't scapegoat him for, as we all agree, the last 12 months being a cluster-fuck. It's partly his fault, partly the players, partly NZF's. I didn't think it was smart of him to go to the papers on the weekend, but I can totally understand - JD is saying "he got all the credit back in 2010-11", but you know that's bullshit, the usual suspects here and elsewhere were giving the credit to Simon Elliott and Ryan Nelsen.

As far as I am concerned, it's this: Ricki has made many enemies, whether deserving or not, and they would never give him credit for anything. I think that it's the right time for him to go but I think we should pat him on the back as he goes. This does not mean I endorse him shitting on roulette tables, although if he does that tonight while on the piss I'll probably laugh.

shitting on roulette tables - that's a messed up fetish right there

Yeah JV...

We don't need your grossed sh*ts.

No one here believes it was Elliott and Nelsen - only the two minute trolls that turn up and push that line. He got the Halberg, he got lauded, the press hung on his every word about an assistant gig in the EPL (was it with Avram Grant?)

You are a brain dead Ricki lover. Do you give Ernie Merrick the same liberties? You've already tossed him out before the 1st game kicked off.

Whoever come in, please keep the direct, kick and run style for NZ football!!!

What I am implying is the team that is left for the next manager, has potential. Reid, Smith, McG, Rojas, Kosta, Wood, Roux, Tuiloma.... That's a team of potential for the new manager to inherit who have at least 7 years ahead of them (McG maybe not). 6 of those players are regulars, throw in new comers Roux, Tuiloma, Moss, another CB (Boxall, Fitzgerald) and a striker to partner Wood.... You must admit that team has potential. There is also Payne, Howieson, Keat.... All young. These players have been near that team for a while.

I may not have phrased it in that way but it's left a team for the new man to work with. Potential

Na. He has left in it good shape but the next guy has to unlock it

Thanks Ricki!

Thanks ricki now onwards and upwards

Just watched Ricki's interview with Dewhurst after the game. 

Likely his only genuine one of the week (understandably).

Respect.

Thanks Ricki.  you have done some amazing things for nz football over the past 8 years.

cheers

But overall, I hope he takes some time off and rethinks his approach to the game.  He's still got something to give in NZ, but unless he modernises his approach he could become an anachronism.  I do think he's become very stubborn and quite arrogant - partly because he seems to have alienated most of the football media in the country and a lot of the fans as well.  He needs to move on from 2010 now and start looking forward not backwards.  I still can't quite believe he didn't thank the fans for either the AWs or the Phoenix.

He did thank the fans on sky last night

in a touch of pure class from some of the locals, one of ricki's cars has been egged overnight #disgusted

I am a local but didn't egg his car . pretty sad .

thanks ricki . i'll shout you a beer at the boundary some time

All the best Ricki.

Thought this was a good piece:

All Whites have work cut out to make it back to World Cup

Makes a couple of good points about Herbert...

"In charge of the All Whites for the last time, Herbert was afforded generous applause after the final whistle. He oversaw a period in which much of the general sporting public came to care enough to get angry about football in a way they didn't before, even if there remains a level of ignorance about how tough it is to excel in football from those who follow non-global sports such as rugby.

Contrast that with the lack of an outcry after the 4-2 loss to Vanuatu which effectively ended New Zealand's 2006 World Cup campaign"

True - for all the shit he gets at least more people give a shit now. Good point about a general level of ignorance concerning how tough it is to compete globally in football too. That's even been evident in this forum in recent months.

"From a personal standpoint, Herbert's biggest mistake was perhaps not signing a lucrative contract with a Middle Eastern club when his stock was at its highest after the 2010 World Cup. But Herbert demonstrated the kind of loyalty that has all but disappeared from football by staying with the All Whites and Phoenix. One wonders if the leading offshore All Whites will show similar loyalty to their national team in the next World Cup cycle, especially if New Zealand draws a much tougher qualifying path through South America".

It will certainly be interesting to see what he does next. Seems to be commonly assumed he will get another job at NZF but I noticed that Kevin Airs from Aus 442 sent this tweet the other day:

"The sound of eyebrows being raised is heard in Jets/Heart offices RT @Andrew_Gourdie Ricki Herbert set to stand down http://kev.gs/1bAikm0"

Might just be joking of course, but at the same time I think that away from NZ there probably isn't half the shit talked about Herbert that there is here. For the same reason I think its possibly not too late for him to pick something up in the Middle East. Maybe not a top job but something lucrative anyway.

+n (where n is a very large number)

To paraphrase Chuck D: "Yeah, you tellin' Terminator X we got to let 'em know"