Could be a very big year for us, Hay should know our best XI when fit now although I'm not sure based on the Jordan game where he's still tinkering with our defence.
I think it's time he went all Herbert and starts using a formation that gets or best XI out there. It's clear as day we are weak at RB so why not play 3 CBs and deep lying L and R midfielders/winners like Ricki did.
I'd have Marinovic ahead of Sail, not because I necessarily think he's better.. but he's played a lot more big matches (including the Peru matches 5 years ago) not to mention Sail has been injured and hasn't even played a single match for NZ yet.
Prefer a 4-3-3, and playing Singh wide left allows him to play alongside Bell, Thomas, Stamenic, and it’s where he plays for Regensburg. Still reckon Marco Rojas is first 11 quality, he already has half a dozen assists in the A League this season. Guys like McCowatt, Payne, Tuiloma and Just give a lot of versatility for other formations if needed as well.
Wood Barborouses Singh Rojas Thomas Stamenic Bell Cacace Reid Tuiloma Marinovich Subs: Sail Fenton, Boxall, Smith, Just Garbett Champness
Squad Woud, Payne, Grieves, DeVries, Old
Realistically we'd get absolutely slaughtered with only a back three but was doing this more as an top eleven I'd like to see on the field at any one time if there was a way to make it work. I know the RB situation is still up in the air but at this point I'd almost want to give Fenton a crack. Who knows how he'd play on the world stage but the boy plays with a lot of heart and that's gotta count for something. I might be the only one but wasn't too sold on Kirwan despite the goal in the end of year friendlies. Was lacking in pace and got beaten by his opposite number app matches.
I can't imagine we are seeing Ryan Thomas in the squad anytime this world cup cycle but as Piney mentioned in the Kiwi Football Fix he's one of those players if he's available come November you gotta have him.
Prefer a 4-3-3, and playing Singh wide left allows him to play alongside Bell, Thomas, Stamenic, and it’s where he plays for Regensburg. Still reckon Marco Rojas is first 11 quality, he already has half a dozen assists in the A League this season. Guys like McCowatt, Payne, Tuiloma and Just give a lot of versatility for other formations if needed as well.
think this is probably what we'll see come the pointy end of qualifications. I'd like to see Sail ahead of Marinovic though, assuming he is fit and can get game time ahead of Paulsen.
Yup that’s the team. Rojas playing as a right winger and Singh also for playing in a wide role for his club.
I suspect we’ll see both Boxall and Nando on Wednesday in a back 5 with Reid so that will be interesting. I still think that’s how Danny will line up if Thomas isn’t available for a one off game then revert to a 4-3-3 at the hour mark if need be and bring on a champness type of player to chase the game if necessary. carlind
Prefer a 4-3-3, and playing Singh wide left allows him to play alongside Bell, Thomas, Stamenic, and it’s where he plays for Regensburg. Still reckon Marco Rojas is first 11 quality, he already has half a dozen assists in the A League this season. Guys like McCowatt, Payne, Tuiloma and Just give a lot of versatility for other formations if needed as well.
Yup that’s the team. Rojas playing as a right winger and Singh also for playing in a wide role for his club.
I suspect we’ll see both Boxall and Nando on Wednesday in a back 5 with Reid so that will be interesting. I still think that’s how Danny will line up if Thomas isn’t available for a one off game then revert to a 4-3-3 at the hour mark if need be and bring on a champness type of player to chase the game if necessary. carlind
Prefer a 4-3-3, and playing Singh wide left allows him to play alongside Bell, Thomas, Stamenic, and it’s where he plays for Regensburg. Still reckon Marco Rojas is first 11 quality, he already has half a dozen assists in the A League this season. Guys like McCowatt, Payne, Tuiloma and Just give a lot of versatility for other formations if needed as well.
Yipe think this is likely very close to Hay's squad. Greive starting tomorrow against Uzbeks is interesting though. He could be the late bolter. Maybe for McCowatt. Champness offers that point of difference with his speed & dribbling - I think he stays.
Also I'm not sure about Payne at RB. He needs to start there tomorrow and play well, to become the front runner. But it's a big ask. He hasn't played there for a long time, and as Hay himself has stated the fitness requirements especially, are so different to playing CB.
Be interesting to see if he gets a crack at RB at the Nix, if Wootton gets fit. Talay likes a left footed CB (Laws - who has been playing well of late). Wouldn't hurt Payne to get a few games at RB when Wootton finally starts.
Otherwise I think Kirwan will stay Danny's first choice starting RB.
And I wouldn't give up on Thomas. He's never been to a World Cup (though he'll likely get to USA 2026). He just needs to get his body right. He could come in even as late as June for a pre Intercontinental Playoff friendly, and still slot in pretty well. In his absence Stamenic is a locked in starter.
Carlind: "...still recon Marco Rojas is first 11 quality, he already has half a dozen assists in the A League this season".
Rojas has only ever seemed to play well in the A League. He's not stood up in Europe or the AWs. He's deffo in the squad but as an impact player. He wasn't even that effective against the Nix in the FFA Cup with his replacements destroying us after he got dragged off.
I think we'd line up better in a 352 formation with Kosta playing off Woodsy up top, but struggling to find a RWB to compliment Cacace on the other side.
There’s also the option of playing Pijnaker for his passing range, Sail depending on form, Grieve or Waine instead of Kosta and playing a front three if we don’t have all four midfielders available or with Singh on the left.
There’s also the option of playing Pijnaker for his passing range, Sail depending on form, Grieve or Waine instead of Kosta and playing a front three if we don’t have all four midfielders available or with Singh on the left.
You know ball. I'd have Sail ahead of Marinovic and the second CB debate's closer than it has been in a while due to Bill's recent great form, but I love your ideas in the first squad and your second side is absolutely spot on
Yes if you go 2 CBs I'd look at Tuiloma over M Boxall. Tuiloma has been in real good form at both ends of the pitch, and has been playing as left CB for the Timbers. Whilst Boxall like Reid plays on the right side mostly for Minny.
Actually impressed by some of Tommy Smith's passing with his left peg, in this OFC tourney. But yeah his role is now as a late sub especially if trying to protect a lead.
Unfortunately for Sail I just think he will run out of games pre the Playoff to push out Marinovic, unless big Stef has a howler tomorrow. Sail would have met many of his AWs team mates for the first time at this tourney, where he debuted. Marinovic just has a tonne of international experience now playing with the likes of Reid - and I think Hay values that.
Lets really hope Singh & Thomas are fit come June. A huge boost if so.
There’s also the option of playing Pijnaker for his passing range, Sail depending on form, Grieve or Waine instead of Kosta and playing a front three if we don’t have all four midfielders available or with Singh on the left.
You know ball. I'd have Sail ahead of Marinovic and the second CB debate's closer than it has been in a while due to Bill's recent great form, but I love your ideas in the first squad and your second side is absolutely spot on
In a playoff, especially at a World Cup, I can only see the team playing a very conservative way, similar to the way they did at the Olympics vs Korea. I think the use of the 3/5atb in these OFC qualifiers confirms that, because no point in playing an unfamiliar system, especially given the time constraints.
Marinovic probably has the edge, just for being around longer, Sail has come a long way in a short period of time, but has only two caps and both vs OFC teams, Marinovic has 30 odd. Backline, I’d expect Payne at fullback for solidity, and centre of Tuiloma, Reid, Pijnaker; Boxall is a toss up with Tuiloma to start, but Pijnaker’s the flavour of the month and probably as locked as Reid. Cacace is a non-debate.
There’ll probably be that same diamond midfield, as availability dictates, with Bell, Thomas and Stamenic all being closer to 6s, with Singh playing close to Wood.
I’d imagine similar tactics to how PNG played, where the main KPI is to keep a clean sheet, any goal scored is a bonus. Set pieces will be a target with guys like Wood, Reid, Tuiloma, Pijnaker all being big units, and that’ll probably be where the most chances would come from.
If we beat the Solomons, that game will be the last of the year we will be favourites/even for. If we don’t beat them, or don’t beat Costa Rica, then I’d imagine that it’d be back into international wilderness for a year or so, plus the quadrennial player/coach turnover of players who’d be likely past it by 2026, guys like Rojas, Boxall, Barbarouses, probably Reid even.
Distracted myself, but having a look, only 8 of the 23 picked for the Peru playoff were picked in the 30 for Qatar. Similarly, only 13 of the 23 for Mexico in 2013 were there in Peru 2017.
I reckon as long as AWs win tomorrow, and then don't great thrashed by Costa Rica - Hay will go another cycle in the job. And I wouldn't be opposed to that.
Been awhile since someone has been there for any long stretch, so some continuity wouldn't hurt for a change - especially even how little hands on time the coach usually gets with the squad over a WC cycle.
I also remain stupidly optimistic that some sort of AFC/OFC Nations League will happen 2023-2024, giving AWs some meaningful games, incl in NZ. Playing only the Island nations at home over a 4 year cycle is too depressing to stomach, Esp given the talent in this group, and not seeing them live, playing any 'big' games in NZ would be a massive shame.
lineup (15).png136.3 KB I think i'd like to see us do a 4-3-3 for our strongest lineup, I think with the narrow 4-1-2-1-2 you have to rely on the full backs providing the width and could be an easy way for teams to exploit.
lineup (15).png136.3 KB I think i'd like to see us do a 4-3-3 for our strongest lineup, I think with the narrow 4-1-2-1-2 you have to rely on the full backs providing the width and could be an easy way for teams to exploit.
Could always give Singh a fluid role where he can drift central and onto the left, would make for some nice overlaps with Libby
lineup (15).png136.3 KB I think i'd like to see us do a 4-3-3 for our strongest lineup, I think with the narrow 4-1-2-1-2 you have to rely on the full backs providing the width and could be an easy way for teams to exploit.
Could always give Singh a fluid role where he can drift central and onto the left, would make for some nice overlaps with Libby
I like this but would start both Rojas and Kosta on the wings and would put Singh on for Thomas who is highly unlikely to be anywhere near match fit for this game. Of course the same could be said for Singh.
Thomas is back training and now has a bit over 2 mths to hopefully get fit. That’s enough as long as there are no more setbacks
And Singh is already back playing at JR, so hopefully properly over his groin niggle.
This OFC tourney has basically gone perfectly for Hay. Got to integrate the ALM players at last (except Rojas). No one got injured. No one suspended for the Playoff game. AWs had 5 games in quick succession to further work on structures etc. Basically an invaluable 2 week training camp
At the same time they have likely in Costa Rica got the weakest CONCACAF opponent they could realistically hope for.
Hay will be a happy camper. He has a welcome headache picking a 23 man squad from the 30 at this tourney plus 5-6 big names (Rojas, M Boxall, Singh, Thomas, Woud & Tzanev) unavailable.
lineup (15).png136.3 KB I think i'd like to see us do a 4-3-3 for our strongest lineup, I think with the narrow 4-1-2-1-2 you have to rely on the full backs providing the width and could be an easy way for teams to exploit.
Could always give Singh a fluid role where he can drift central and onto the left, would make for some nice overlaps with Libby
I like this but would start both Rojas and Kosta on the wings and would put Singh on for Thomas who is highly unlikely to be anywhere near match fit for this game. Of course the same could be said for Singh.
I honestly doubt we'll see Rojas in a white/black shirt again. He's 30 now and there are other wingers pushing for spots and showing a willingness to be available when needed. The likes of Champness, Just, McCowatt, Kosta, De Jong (although I doubt he makes the WC squad) are ahead of Rojas. Hay would be hard pressed to select Rojas now for the playoff game let alone the final 23 for the WC should we make it.
lineup (15).png136.3 KB I think i'd like to see us do a 4-3-3 for our strongest lineup, I think with the narrow 4-1-2-1-2 you have to rely on the full backs providing the width and could be an easy way for teams to exploit.
Could always give Singh a fluid role where he can drift central and onto the left, would make for some nice overlaps with Libby
I like this but would start both Rojas and Kosta on the wings and would put Singh on for Thomas who is highly unlikely to be anywhere near match fit for this game. Of course the same could be said for Singh.
I honestly doubt we'll see Rojas in a white/black shirt again. He's 30 now and there are other wingers pushing for spots and showing a willingness to be available when needed. The likes of Champness, Just, McCowatt, Kosta, De Jong (although I doubt he makes the WC squad) are ahead of Rojas. Hay would be hard pressed to select Rojas now for the playoff game let alone the final 23 for the WC should we make it.
Yeah Just and McCowatt have taken Rojas’ spot as the winger/striker/attacking mid utility player
Would love to see us play friendlies against the Asian playoff winner (probably Aus but never know), as well as playing against Peru. Both those teams have reason to play with meaning rather than playing a team that has no significant international competitions upcoming. Unless we can sort a friendly against a team that has already qualified for the world cup. Most likely being an Asian team or potentially one of the African teams.
Would love to see us play friendlies against the Asian playoff winner (probably Aus but never know), as well as playing against Peru. Both those teams have reason to play with meaning rather than playing a team that has no significant international competitions upcoming. Unless we can sort a friendly against a team that has already qualified for the world cup. Most likely being an Asian team or potentially one of the African teams.
Tight scheduling makes a warmup game against Socceroos or UAE a bit unlikely.
Euro club seasons finish late May. For example Wood's Newcastle play final game May 22nd. UAE verus Australia is June 6th. AWs verus Costa Rica June 13th or 14th.
I reckon AWs will play someone early June in a friendly. Ideally Peru in Qatar behind closed doors away from peeping Costa Rican eyes. With maybe a chance of an earlier friendly late May, for those guys whose club seasons have finished earlier - like potentially any Nix AWs.
In discussing Rojas, consider the title thread - Strongest AW XI. If he is a player that makes the side stronger, then he has to be considered in footballing terms. If he has a disruptive or divisive personality that upsets the team culture or environment, then that becomes a legit consideration for not including him. I'm picking it would be a possible conversation for Hay and his senior players: if Hay believes Marco adds footballing strength, it would make sense that he sounds out the likes of Wood and Reid for their views as to how or whether he'd fit the team environment. Not a case of Danny shirking responsibility or asking them to do his job, but just doing the right thing in terms of dynamics and culture.
One big plus with Rojas is experience. He has been in these playoff scenarios before with the All Whites, and he's played in some big event matches at club level. One of the single biggest factors with Bahrain in 2009 was the experience of the players on the pitch - Nelsen, Elliott, Vicelich, Killen, Smeltz had all been there done that in their careers. Even relative newbies at the time like Rory Fallon had a lot of professional experience. I'm positive Danny will be wanting to maximise the experience factor also. The likes of Champness, McCowatt and Just can't match Rojas for that. In terms of current form or performance, Just would be the one pushing Rojas for a place, but as of now I say it'd be a bit of a stretch to say Champness and McCowatt offer better footballing considerations (not saying they're bad, just don't think they're playing as well as him).
Not being available for international duty is never helpful. And maybe him returning after that that would sour team culture, making it an easy decision for Hay. But other players have missed games for different reasons at different times and still returned to the fold effectively (Nelsen, Smith, Barbarouses, Rufer, Herbert - even Hay himself!). So there may be more to come in regards to this. But looking at some of the lineups created in this thread, we potentially have a VERY exciting team in the offing, and so I just think we need to consider if Rojas is an asset in that mix, and right now, on form, I'd suggest he is.
Agree with Khalil comments on Rojas. Remember Rojas was injured for most of last year. Broke his leg playing against the Nix. It is good to see him finally get regular starts and lots of assists this season, slowly getting back to level he was at.
Watch at about 1.30 in this clip - I know it's a few years back, but he can do stuff different from most of our players, and if a moment like this comes off in a playoff, it could make all the difference.
In discussing Rojas, consider the title thread - Strongest AW XI. If he is a player that makes the side stronger, then he has to be considered in footballing terms. If he has a disruptive or divisive personality that upsets the team culture or environment, then that becomes a legit consideration for not including him. I'm picking it would be a possible conversation for Hay and his senior players: if Hay believes Marco adds footballing strength, it would make sense that he sounds out the likes of Wood and Reid for their views as to how or whether he'd fit the team environment. Not a case of Danny shirking responsibility or asking them to do his job, but just doing the right thing in terms of dynamics and culture.
One big plus with Rojas is experience. He has been in these playoff scenarios before with the All Whites, and he's played in some big event matches at club level. One of the single biggest factors with Bahrain in 2009 was the experience of the players on the pitch - Nelsen, Elliott, Vicelich, Killen, Smeltz had all been there done that in their careers. Even relative newbies at the time like Rory Fallon had a lot of professional experience. I'm positive Danny will be wanting to maximise the experience factor also. The likes of Champness, McCowatt and Just can't match Rojas for that. In terms of current form or performance, Just would be the one pushing Rojas for a place, but as of now I say it'd be a bit of a stretch to say Champness and McCowatt offer better footballing considerations (not saying they're bad, just don't think they're playing as well as him).
Not being available for international duty is never helpful. And maybe him returning after that that would sour team culture, making it an easy decision for Hay. But other players have missed games for different reasons at different times and still returned to the fold effectively (Nelsen, Smith, Barbarouses, Rufer, Herbert - even Hay himself!). So there may be more to come in regards to this. But looking at some of the lineups created in this thread, we potentially have a VERY exciting team in the offing, and so I just think we need to consider if Rojas is an asset in that mix, and right now, on form, I'd suggest he is.
Worth establishing a fact: The only sense in which Marco has been unavailable is because travel restrictions were in place (last year) or matches were scheduled outside Fifa windows (earlier this month)
Rojas is also just getting back to match fitness, perhaps they agreed not to pick him as to risk him getting injured.
The island nations are not the softest teams to play, let alone the impact of lots of games in short succession and travel.
He's been playing consistently for the Victory. If I recall correctly he's snubbed playing the Island teams before, but I might be wrong. Pretty hard to include him in the starting 11 or even squad now.
Think it’s pretty premature to start thinking about Thomas as a starting player. Not to say he won’t, and he’s still young but hasn' played much in the last 4 seasons. In fact he played more in the 17/18 season (3,998 minutes) than he has in the last 4 seasons combined.
It was mentioned in another thread, but there’s probably a chance there might be bigger squads than 23. Euros last year had 26 man squads, and AFCON in January had 28. Covid will still be a factor and FIFA will be damned if they see teams having to do a Vanuatu at their flagship event. It’ll still be 23 man matchday squads, but could well be up to 30 players in a squad.
Think it’s pretty premature to start thinking about Thomas as a starting player. Not to say he won’t, and he’s still young but hasn' played much in the last 4 seasons. In fact he played more in the 17/18 season (3,998 minutes) than he has in the last 4 seasons combined.
18/19 – 0 minutes
19/20 – 923 minute ~ 10 games
20/21 – 1375 minutes ~ 15 games
21/22 – 235 minutes ~ 2 games
Fair comment. But Reid has been similarly low for a few years now, and he's still club less but going okay. From Soccerway -
Though yes the physical running load for a midfielder like Thomas can be a lot higher than a CB like Reid.
Flying Kiwis actually raised a point recently, that maybe Reid is not too seriously looking for a club. Very much focusing on the AWs in 2022, and trying for another WC. Nurturing his body. Lets face it that last West Ham deal, was a very nice one financially for him. Who knows??
In discussing Rojas, consider the title thread - Strongest AW XI. If he is a player that makes the side stronger, then he has to be considered in footballing terms. If he has a disruptive or divisive personality that upsets the team culture or environment, then that becomes a legit consideration for not including him. I'm picking it would be a possible conversation for Hay and his senior players: if Hay believes Marco adds footballing strength, it would make sense that he sounds out the likes of Wood and Reid for their views as to how or whether he'd fit the team environment. Not a case of Danny shirking responsibility or asking them to do his job, but just doing the right thing in terms of dynamics and culture.
One big plus with Rojas is experience. He has been in these playoff scenarios before with the All Whites, and he's played in some big event matches at club level. One of the single biggest factors with Bahrain in 2009 was the experience of the players on the pitch - Nelsen, Elliott, Vicelich, Killen, Smeltz had all been there done that in their careers. Even relative newbies at the time like Rory Fallon had a lot of professional experience. I'm positive Danny will be wanting to maximise the experience factor also. The likes of Champness, McCowatt and Just can't match Rojas for that. In terms of current form or performance, Just would be the one pushing Rojas for a place, but as of now I say it'd be a bit of a stretch to say Champness and McCowatt offer better footballing considerations (not saying they're bad, just don't think they're playing as well as him).
Not being available for international duty is never helpful. And maybe him returning after that that would sour team culture, making it an easy decision for Hay. But other players have missed games for different reasons at different times and still returned to the fold effectively (Nelsen, Smith, Barbarouses, Rufer, Herbert - even Hay himself!). So there may be more to come in regards to this. But looking at some of the lineups created in this thread, we potentially have a VERY exciting team in the offing, and so I just think we need to consider if Rojas is an asset in that mix, and right now, on form, I'd suggest he is.
Worth establishing a fact: The only sense in which Marco has been unavailable is because travel restrictions were in place (last year) or matches were scheduled outside Fifa windows (earlier this month)
But Payne travelled over to Qatar inside the FIFA window dates. Hay & Rojas either decided it would be unnecessary to bring Marco over, or Rojas made himself unavailable. Who knows.
But I think KM's point about Hay consulting his senior players, about Rojas is now very valid. Would there be disharmony if he was bought in now late on? How would say Just react if his good mate McCowatt, who had made himself available for every window was dropped for Rojas. Same other ex Ole Alumini AWs who are probably close to McCowatt & Just. You want a unified squad, not a fractured one.
From memory Wood & Rojas, were once good mates (probably still are), both being from the Tron. So imagine Woodsman's views will be important to Hay.
If Rojas had a valid reason and Hay accepted it, or he simply wasn't selected, i have no problem with him being selected. If not, then - no, you need people that want to play for their country. We dont actually need him like we did Nelsen for example. Personally I don't think he will make the cut.
lineup (15).png136.3 KB I think i'd like to see us do a 4-3-3 for our strongest lineup, I think with the narrow 4-1-2-1-2 you have to rely on the full backs providing the width and could be an easy way for teams to exploit.
This is pretty similar to the lineup that I arrived at. Although for me Sail has to play ahead of Marinovic. This is starting to look like a very strong starting 11 and wider squad, assuming everyone is fit. Looking at the Aussie's, I'm pretty convinced we have a much stronger side now.
Think it’s pretty premature to start thinking about Thomas as a starting player. Not to say he won’t, and he’s still young but hasn' played much in the last 4 seasons. In fact he played more in the 17/18 season (3,998 minutes) than he has in the last 4 seasons combined.
18/19 – 0 minutes
19/20 – 923 minute ~ 10 games
20/21 – 1375 minutes ~ 15 games
21/22 – 235 minutes ~ 2 games
I think what will sway it is if he can get fit and play a few games before the end of the season and see how his form is. If he's back up to close to his old standard then you'll have to put him in the team if not than I wouldn't start him
Think it’s pretty premature to start thinking about Thomas as a starting player. Not to say he won’t, and he’s still young but hasn' played much in the last 4 seasons. In fact he played more in the 17/18 season (3,998 minutes) than he has in the last 4 seasons combined.
18/19 – 0 minutes
19/20 – 923 minute ~ 10 games
20/21 – 1375 minutes ~ 15 games
21/22 – 235 minutes ~ 2 games
As others have said, its a pretty similar situation to Reid, but he is still without doubt or best centre back. 4 years with not much first team football isn't insignificant, but I still think he will absolutely have a starting spot nailed down if he's fit. You have to be an extremely good player to play for PSV, and none of our other midfielders have got close to his ability (yet).
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