All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams

Tanzania, Botswana, Italy friendlies

813 replies · 21,091 views
almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bullion wrote:

Bones wrote:

whitby fever wrote:
edward l wrote:
On that performance we could have drawn with Ryan Nielson at the back?


No we would have won. Most of their goals came from that weak point on the Right Back.

I have to say that hopefully this has envigorated Vicelich to stick around for the World Cup qualifier, because we need him. Here's hoping for the good confederation cup.


Bit harsh on Mulligan, the last two Italian goals were down to Brown.


Not harsh, just a discipline/concentration/position lapse. Mulligan on both occasion was pulled out of RB position into the centre when there was a centre defender sweeper already covering the man with the ball.

He needed to cover the man in his space, because there was no one else left in the line and there is always someone coming though there once in the box. It forces the centre defender to naturally adjust to accommodate a fellow defender when it was his (centre defender's) job to close the man with the ball down. Making two weak area unnecessary.[The centre defender has to close down and force the centre striker to shoot earlier and wide, we still have a keeper to shot stop, plus any re-bounds are covered by the wide backs] Position mistake in the box means no time to backtrack cover the space. Can't relied on anyone else to cover more ground than he would in the space given, no time.

But honestly he was actually doing well until those events. Fatigue added to his concentration and it became weaker in the second half. The defence line opened up at right back area.

If you watch Ryan Nelson play, he always cover the man in his space and leave the centre defence for the two players that are suppose to be there. He won't crowd the centre, There is really no need. Usually the defence outnumber the attack 4 to 3 with two centre defender to cover the middle at the last third in the box and the wide backs man to man against the wingers because of the limited space and time. Outside Ryan Nelson, we don't have a strong enough RB. Both Lochead and Mulligan are stronger on the LB rather than RB.

Not being harsh on him at all, It is very hard for a right boot right back. He is not alone in this. There is a natural drift movement to the left and he was up against an very quality attack. He will have the same problem against Spain but maybe not against South Africa or Iraq as much because he has improved at RB in this game, believe it or not.

What Ricki needs to do is to mark the time of when each player started to lose discipline due to fatigue in this game and be aware when to substitute them in the coming games. This is a larger concern to the coach in substitution. I understand Ricki not subbing early to extend the players match fitness and see where the players drop in fitness. This is a warm-up training session still, classified as a heavily session. Generally you have to very very pleased with their performance. The general energy of the team at a highly contestable level.

But no rest for the wicked . . . a massage session and rest with light carbs meals and then back into it a days later a light session, medium session and light session. Maintenance to keep energy up.
I can't say I have watched him much, but I thought Ryan Nelson was a Central Defender.
How often does Mulligan play LB? In all the games he has played in his life it would surely be a low single figure %


Ryan Nelson has done both centre defender and right defender. Whatever position he does, he keeps that space marked with good discipline because he has reliable defenders around him. He rarely makes mistake in his positioning and has an very high anticipation line and vision which is why he has been club captain. He has to be outpaced and tricked by the opposing left winger or left midfielder.

The thing is that Lochead is that he is really good at LB than Mully and Mully can do RB. You can swap them around but then you don't have Lochead drive down the wings on the right as he can do better on the left so it is not utilising as good. But Sigmund can do RB as well as CB and has a better backtrack. But Sigmund is very good as CB which is his prefer. Mully is better in the midfield than Sigmund.

Mully does not play as much on the LB as RB because there has been good players in that LB position wherever he has been to. Even Christie is challenging for the RB spot. Mully can be use a bit as RM in 3-5-2 but then Christie has that spot challenged as well. But Mully better than Christie in the centre midfield, and Chrsitie has a better drive down the right midfield which affects his backtracking if he gets too far ahead. However the CM spots are well covered in the squad and so Mully is not needed there. Mully has been used all over the field including striker even he didn't know where he was until recent times. Just a good all rounder hard working player with no special attributes that stand out much.

So yeah he can be a bit confusing but very useful depend on who is available and what the team strategy is.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I thought it was a fantastic performance, the only thing i have is that ricki only made 2 subs, each team was allowed to make 6. When the legs got tired it would have been better to put some fresh legs on, then we might have been able to hold on.
 
Apart from that, It was awesom. Smeltz revived his career playing against wales, i wonder if killen will get offers from italian clubs??
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Kezzah01 wrote:
I thought it was a fantastic performance, the only thing i have is that ricki only made 2 subs, each team was allowed to make 6. When the legs got tired it would have been better to put some fresh legs on, then we might have been able to hold on.
 
Apart from that, It was awesom. Smeltz revived his career playing against wales, i wonder if killen will get offers from italian clubs??


Wasn't that header a beaut! Absolute thumper.

Don't know about Italy, but England and Scotland will be keeping an eye out and that wouldn't have hurt at all.

He would have known these were important games for his career, well done that man!
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What a game!!!!!
Couldnt believe it when Smeltz headed our first!
This game has been well covered: everyone at school was talking about it!
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Fantastic result. I thought Mulligan was pretty solid tonight so a little disappointed to hear him get a bit of stick, he gave an out to Brockie every time and made some nice runs up the line.
 
Thought he probaly kept possession just aswell as lochead, parlty because lochead cant throw a ball in, we kept giving it away and were stagnat in that area.
 
Ratings
 
Moss - 5 - Didn't have the greatest hands and didn't pull off any really top saves.
Mulligan - 7- - pretty solid against a very good attacking line up, made some good runs and supported Brockie well on the flank.
Lochead - 7 - good in the air and in the challenge, needed to make a few more overlapping runs maybe.
Boyens - 8 - top game with great munter challenge, very solid except for the second goal, too weak and didn't challenge the header, that was very poor.
Vicelich - 9 should still be playing pro.
Elliott - 9 - Best game i have seen him play. Normally bag him but stan corrected today!
Brown - 7 - Very good work rate, pity about his pass which lead to the equaliser.
Bertos -8 ried totake on his man and won some good corners. Set piece delivery excellent... where was it at the nix??
Brockie - 7 - not as much influence as bertos or other mids, but did well, lovely nut meg. Much better player today than 18 months ago.
Smeltz - 9 - best player on park, worked hard, good goal and excellent control, lovely to hear the italian commentators saying how impressive he was a couple of times.
Killen - 9 -TWO GOALS, good strength, his best game for a while.
 
Subs did not get enought time to make a difference.
 
Go the NZ team, hugely proud and makes me alot more confiedent for upcoming games including the wc qualifiers.
 
Go New Zealand!!!!
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Loved brockies meg, was that pirlo he got?? He kinda fizzed out in the 2nd half and didn't do asmuch, would like to have seen chris james come on for him
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Amazing game! NZ never looked intimidated and it was great to see them wearing our national colours as they gave it to the world champs! matty.j2009-06-11 17:00:39
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bullion wrote:

Bones wrote:

whitby fever wrote:
edward l wrote:
On that performance we could have drawn with Ryan Nielson at the back?


No we would have won. Most of their goals came from that weak point on the Right Back.

I have to say that hopefully this has envigorated Vicelich to stick around for the World Cup qualifier, because we need him. Here's hoping for the good confederation cup.


Bit harsh on Mulligan, the last two Italian goals were down to Brown.


Not harsh, just a discipline/concentration/position lapse. Mulligan on both occasion was pulled out of RB position into the centre when there was a centre defender sweeper already covering the man with the ball.

He needed to cover the man in his space, because there was no one else left in the line and there is always someone coming though there once in the box. It forces the centre defender to naturally adjust to accommodate a fellow defender when it was his (centre defender's) job to close the man with the ball down. Making two weak area unnecessary.[The centre defender has to close down and force the centre striker to shoot earlier and wide, we still have a keeper to shot stop, plus any re-bounds are covered by the wide backs] Position mistake in the box means no time to backtrack cover the space. Can't relied on anyone else to cover more ground than he would in the space given, no time.

But honestly he was actually doing well until those events. Fatigue added to his concentration and it became weaker in the second half. The defence line opened up at right back area.

If you watch Ryan Nelson play, he always cover the man in his space and leave the centre defence for the two players that are suppose to be there. He won't crowd the centre, There is really no need. Usually the defence outnumber the attack 4 to 3 with two centre defender to cover the middle at the last third in the box and the wide backs man to man against the wingers because of the limited space and time. Outside Ryan Nelson, we don't have a strong enough RB. Both Lochead and Mulligan are stronger on the LB rather than RB.

Not being harsh on him at all, It is very hard for a right boot right back. He is not alone in this. There is a natural drift movement to the left and he was up against an very quality attack. He will have the same problem against Spain but maybe not against South Africa or Iraq as much because he has improved at RB in this game, believe it or not.

What Ricki needs to do is to mark the time of when each player started to lose discipline due to fatigue in this game and be aware when to substitute them in the coming games. This is a larger concern to the coach in substitution. I understand Ricki not subbing early to extend the players match fitness and see where the players drop in fitness. This is a warm-up training session still, classified as a heavily session. Generally you have to very very pleased with their performance. The general energy of the team at a highly contestable level.

But no rest for the wicked . . . a massage session and rest with light carbs meals and then back into it a days later a light session, medium session and light session. Maintenance to keep energy up.
I can't say I have watched him much, but I thought Ryan Nelson was a Central Defender.
How often does Mulligan play LB? In all the games he has played in his life it would surely be a low single figure %


Ryan Nelson has done both centre defender and right defender. Whatever position he does, he keeps that space marked with good discipline because he has reliable defenders around him. He rarely makes mistake in his positioning and has an very high anticipation line and vision which is why he has been club captain. He has to be outpaced and tricked by the opposing left winger or left midfielder.

The thing is that Lochead is that he is really good at LB than Mully and Mully can do RB. You can swap them around but then you don't have Lochead drive down the wings on the right as he can do better on the left so it is not utilising as good. But Sigmund can do RB as well as CB and has a better backtrack. But Sigmund is very good as CB which is his prefer. Mully is better in the midfield than Sigmund.

Mully does not play as much on the LB as RB because there has been good players in that LB position wherever he has been to. Even Christie is challenging for the RB spot. Mully can be use a bit as RM in 3-5-2 but then Christie has that spot challenged as well. But Mully better than Christie in the centre midfield, and Chrsitie has a better drive down the right midfield which affects his backtracking if he gets too far ahead. However the CM spots are well covered in the squad and so Mully is not needed there. Mully has been used all over the field including striker even he didn't know where he was until recent times. Just a good all rounder hard working player with no special attributes that stand out much.

So yeah he can be a bit confusing but very useful depend on who is available and what the team strategy is.



I can't remember the last time Nelson played at right back. Always been centre back The 30 or 40  times I've watched him.
Royal2009-06-11 17:03:48
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TouchMe wrote:
Fantastic result. I thought Mulligan was pretty solid tonight so a little disappointed to hear him get a bit of stick, he gave an out to Brockie every time and made some nice runs up the line.
�

Thought he probaly kept possession just aswell as lochead, parlty because lochead cant throw a ball in, we kept giving it away and were stagnat in that area.

�

Ratings

�

Moss - 5 - Didn't have the greatest hands and didn't pull off any really top saves.

Mulligan - 7- - pretty solid against a very good attacking line up, made some good runs and supported Brockie well on the flank.

Lochead - 7 - good in the air and in the challenge, needed to make a few more overlapping runs maybe.

Boyens - 8 - top game with great munter challenge, very solid except for the second goal, too weak and didn't challenge the header, that was very poor.

Vicelich - 9 should still be playing pro.

Elliott - 9 - Best game i have seen him play. Normally bag him but stan corrected today!

Brown - 7 - Very good work rate, pity about his pass which lead to the equaliser.

Bertos -8 ried totake on his man and won some good corners. Set piece delivery excellent... where was it at the nix??

Brockie - 7 - not as much influence as bertos or other mids, but did well, lovely nut meg. Much better player today than 18 months ago.

Smeltz - 9 - best player on park, worked hard, good goal and excellent control, lovely to hear the italian commentators saying how impressive he was a couple of times.

Killen - 9 -TWO GOALS, good strength, his best game for a while.

�

Subs did not get enought time to make a difference.

�

Go the NZ team, hugely proud and makes me alot more confiedent for upcoming games including the wc qualifiers.

�

Go New Zealand!!!!


Wow. Calm down mate.

Moss was much better than 5. Mulligan was average to say the least. Vicelich and Boyens were OK in first 20, then both got shown up to be lacking at this level.
The midfield was OK - very good work from both Brown and Elliott. Brockie was good in the first half, and Bertos was doing well as well. Smeltz's workrate was very impressive, Killen did well too, but all these 8s and 9s?

You'd have thought we won this 6-0.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You do realise we were playing italy and not Tahiti, so yeah 8's and 9's!!
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TouchMe wrote:
Elliott - 9 - Best game i have seen him play. Normally bag him but stan corrected today!
 
 
dont you bag me for not bagging him?

Founder

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Still buzzing over the game
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Does anybody know what the Italy coach/players said at his press conference
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
"What a mistake-a to make-a!"  (well almost)
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Kezzah01 wrote:
I thought it was a fantastic performance, the only thing i have is that ricki only made 2 subs, each team was allowed to make 6. When the legs got tired it would have been better to put some fresh legs on, then we might have been able to hold on...
 
The only reason I could think of was that we had already done the business (be competitive) and the players who started were going to get more out of playing 90 minutes (especially at altitude) than a sub would've got out of playing 20 minutes.
 
While it would've been great to win the game, and also more likely if we got more fresh legs out there, the more important thing is preparing for the next three games (and the WC qualifiers).
 
In those games you can't make six subs, and 7 of your outfielders are going to have to battle for 90+ minutes.  So maybe Ricki wanted to keep the match situation more realistic.
 
Top stuff regardless.  Can't wait for the Spain game!
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I felt Ricki should have subbed more earlier when I was watching the game live, especially right after the Italian Big Guns came on ...pressure ftw, if you like.
but thinking about what you've just said, Energy 24.7 ..You're right!
That was much smarter of Ricki to get as many first choice players as possible battle-hardened for these upcoming games..games with more at stake. Good call.


  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Thats a very good point. The only thing i would have done differently would be too get Chris James on for Brockie just after half time and he tired quickly. All in all I think Ricki's management was top class and he got his tactics spot on for the most part. Well done all whites!!! BTW where they the leading story on the sports news tonight?!?!?
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nzmanu wrote:
Thats a very good point. The only thing i would have done differently would be too get Chris James on for Brockie just after half time and he tired quickly. All in all I think Ricki's management was top class and he got his tactics spot on for the most part. Well done all whites!!! BTW where they the leading story on the sports news tonight?!?!?


on tv3 they were
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[QUOTE=nzmanu BTW where they the leading story on the sports news tonight?!?!?[/QUOTE]
 
Yes tthey were..on TV3.  Didnt watch TVNZ

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Decent.... Usually the leading story is a video of the All Blacks training... bloody ridiculous. To be honest I wouldnt have been suprised at all if the leading story had been Rudi Wulf's injury!! At least they got it right this time.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Stuck in Prague now so missed the game.  Have just watched the youtube highlights.  WOW.... We seam to play better in black, from memory our best result at the other two confeds cups cam when we wore that colour.
 
Another point:  That has to be the most headed goals I've ever seen in a pro game ever.
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TouchMe wrote:
You do realise we were playing italy and not Tahiti, so yeah 8's and 9's!!


So what would they have got if we'd got a draw?

12? 78? 356?

Some perspective needed.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Your a sour guy aren't you?
 
If we got a draw i think i would have given the same marks to be honest, maybe a .5 higher,
 
q? Would you complain with those marks say for beating a team like Taiti 5 zip?? I know which one i'd consider to be the harder task.
 
Killen got a brace against th reigning world champions playing for a team which had amatuers on the field... to get a shot in the game let alone to score a couple. .. yeah 9's come with alot of perspective.
 
Also interesting fact (but i wait to be corrected), but if you add up all the transfer fees paid over the last 20 years for all NZ professional it wouldn't add up to the single one time transfer fee of half of their players.
 
That was almost the perfect underdog performance. Take some prozac and get happy!!
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Every time I watch the youtube footage of Killen's header and his reaction afterwards I get the tingles.... This is a brilliant first step towards the WC playoff.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mossy should have pushed that last goal round the post instead of to the striker. Glad he's left the Nix..

Founder

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I still give him a 9.5 though.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He did well getting to Gilardino's header that nearly went over him and into the net.  And he did well making sure he didn't take the ball into the goal with his bodies momentum. loyalgunner2009-06-12 00:34:10
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nzmanu wrote:
Decent.... Usually the leading story is a video of the All Blacks training... bloody ridiculous. To be honest I wouldnt have been suprised at all if the leading story had been Rudi Wulf's injury!! At least they got it right this time.
 
It basically was on The Crowd Goes Wild, which lets be honest is the best sports show there is.
 
But that was mainly because of McOnie's love for Masaga who's been called in as a replacement for Wulf.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oh and by the way, how much do I want one of those Black tops!  Brilliant.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I told you all Gilardino was class! Just look at the avatar and sig! 
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Torne wrote:
I told you all Gilardino was class! Just look at the avatar and sig!�


He scored a couple of sitters against New Zealand.... Big Deal
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nzmanu wrote:
Decent.... Usually the leading story is a video of the All Blacks training... bloody ridiculous. To be honest I wouldnt have been suprised at all if the leading story had been Rudi Wulf's injury!! At least they got it right this time.
 
All blacks led on TV1. Basically coz the pie man is a rugby head doof lol...
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
Mossy should have pushed that last goal round the post instead of to the striker. Glad he's left the Nix..
 

A dog with a bone :)

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
nzmanu wrote:
Decent.... Usually the leading story is a video of the All Blacks training... bloody ridiculous. To be honest I wouldnt have been suprised at all if the leading story had been Rudi Wulf's injury!! At least they got it right this time.
 
Bloody TV1 had an injured All Black story. Turned to TV3 in disgust...

14/11/09

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
disco_mart wrote:
Stuck in Prague now so missed the game.  Have just watched the youtube highlights.  WOW.... We seam to play better in black, from memory our best result at the other two confeds cups cam when we wore that colour.

I'm all for going back to black, but our best results at a Confed Cup were the losses in '99 (2-1 vs USA, 2-0 vs Germany, 2-0 vs Brazil) where they played in the all white strip. They played in black twice at the French tournament and lost 3-1 to Columbia and 5-0 to France.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
And our best result in recent times is the 2-2 draw with Wales in our blue kit.
 
MEH!

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
TouchMe wrote:
Your a sour guy aren't you?
�

If we got a draw i think i would have given the same marks to be honest, maybe a .5 higher,

�

q? Would you complain with those marks say for beating a team like Taiti�5 zip?? I know which one i'd consider to be the harder task.

�

Killen got a brace against th reigning world champions playing for a team which had amatuers on the field... to get a shot in the game let alone to score a couple. .. yeah 9's come with alot of perspective.

�

Also interesting fact (but i wait to be corrected), but if you add up all the transfer fees paid over the last 20 years for all NZ professional it wouldn't add up to the single one time transfer fee of half of their players.

�

That was almost the perfect underdog performance. Take some prozac and get happy!!


Dude, you gave a 9 to a centre-back who played in a defence that conceded 4 goals...and gave a 5 to a keeper who didn't really do much wrong.

Yes, it was a good effort, but you can't rate individual performances based on the level of the opposition. You rate the individual's performance of the tasks he's supposed to do in a game.

Although I admit both Killen and especially Smeltz deserve high marks for their efforts.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
matty.j wrote:

(2-1 vs USA, 2-0 vs Germany, 2-0 vs Brazil) where they played in the all white strip. They played in black twice at the French tournament and lost 3-1 to Columbia and 5-0 to France.


Pretty sure we played the USA game in black, and Colombia game in white.
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