BAZEball - The Darren Bazeley Era

We are past the point of patience! We were patiently waiting for an announcement before the last international window only to have that fall through, now we are waiting for an even less clear announcement - ie there are no actual applicants, only an interim and a prefferred option who we all think is Herd (but he has effectively said "I'm staying with Canada, unless they sack him).
I have no faith in Pragnell and his team, they have bumbled their way through too many things.

Meanwhile in Fiji ex NZF Technical Director, Rob Sherman, is named their national coach!

https://www.friendsoffootballnz.com/2023/05/09/former-nzf-technical-director-rob-sherman-named-fijis-national-coach/?fbclid=IwAR3pNwHsR0jcfEZCGeV8Xz1kfKMqDaaSxALE3e48w4VJ8T2NC-RAs1lS7LQ

Ha ha ha, even Fiji are more organised than NZF. I think it is systematic with a lot of our National team organisations. Just look at NZRU, that was a total shambles, hockey, cycling etc all seem to have issues too.

I would have been happy with Sherman!

Just to remind everyone, someone from one news interviewed Pragnell in April and while it didn't show Pragnell saying this, the voiceover said that he was confident of getting the coach appointed "next month" i.e. May i.e. before Sweden. Of course they've missed deadlines before but before the march window they said that they were going to reassess after the window and stated that they might even not make an appointment until after June window, so I feel like they must have had some real confidence to say a may appointment was likely. So who knows, maybe we will get an appointment this month. 

If they don't announce it in May you know they will use the womens WC and not wanting to distract from it as an excuse to drag it out a few more months.

imanixsupporter

Just to remind everyone, someone from one news interviewed Pragnell in April and while it didn't show Pragnell saying this, the voiceover said that he was confident of getting the coach appointed "next month" i.e. May i.e. before Sweden. Of course they've missed deadlines before but before the march window they said that they were going to reassess after the window and stated that they might even not make an appointment until after June window, so I feel like they must have had some real confidence to say a may appointment was likely. So who knows, maybe we will get an appointment this month. 

So we are to ignore the fact that NZF screwed the whole recruitment process the first time, missed deadlines that were publically made and expect they'll meet/beat the current "we'll have a decision by" date? 
20 days to go and counting........
37 days till Sweden......

With the U20 World Cup about to start and Beazley leading the side, will he actually even be prepared himself to take the All Whites team for the Sweden game himself.

I'd be pissed off personally if he was doing anything, other than completely focusing on this tournament.

Well this certianly would be an 11th hour plot twist..

Screenshot_20230513-220619_Chrome.jpg 138.65 KB

He can dream, we need someone at a better stage of his coaching career than this.

Rock Hopper

Well this certianly would be an 11th hour plot twist..

Screenshot_20230513-220619_Chrome.jpg 138.65 KB

Really strange for him to post that publicly on Twitter. Great player, but he's got almost zero coaching experience... the main advantage would be making some Japanese fans cheer for NZ as their second team. Since he played for Victory he probably understands football in this part of the world better than most foreigners though. As an assistant/technical advisor type role, maybe... as a head coach we should be aiming much higher.

It does show one thing though, that the easier qualifying path will help us attract people wanting to coach us and go to a World Cup, who otherwise might not be interested.

Wasn't he a national headcoach when he was playing in the A-League?

Ryan

Wasn't he a national headcoach when he was playing in the A-League?

From Wiki (which I'll assume is accurate): "In August 2018, whilst still a player, Honda was named general manager of Cambodia. Under this arrangement, Honda will hold weekly conference with Cambodia coaching staff, and will be on the touchline when Cambodia's match is in FIFA International match Calendar,"

So not really from how I interpret that... 
They also (according to the same article) lost 10-0 and 14-0 (!!!) to Iran in the same period he was their 'general manager'.

So an immenant annoiuncement means more than 4 weeks away? Shambolic!

If there preferred candidate made himself unavailable (Des Buckingham and/or John Herdman) I'd prefer they take there time over this decision rather than rush in and announce someone second rate just to appease the public.
If its at all going to be Bazeley, which it still could well be. Then I would prefer they see how he goes at U20 WC and then in the next window against Sweden before appointing him.

don't worry. i think it's safe to say they are taking their time over this decision.

"New Zealand Football might yet have a permanent All Whites coach in place by the end of May – the latest in a growing list of target time frames chief executive Andrew Pragnell has stated publicly.

But with the June international window now less than a month away, Darren Bazeley is set to take on a caretaker role for the second time this year, even if a full-time appointment is made before it."

"With an official announcement understood to be imminent..."

Fascinating comments from Voerman. Aligns with One News reporting last month that Pragnell was confident in having a permanent appointment made in May. Also strongly implies Bazeley is not currently being seriously considered as a possibility for the role on a permanent basis. One wonders why a coach appointed this month couldn't be in charge of the June friendlies, would have to either be still under contract in June, or have personal issues, as Pragnell stated their preferred candidate claimed they had. 

What a saga this has been. 

I feel devalued as a fan, so much disrespect coming out of this organisation. In all honesty....I'm genuinely tired by it all.. the women's game is a mess...men's game there's always some turmoil in every campaign. I'm not sure as a fan i have anything left in the tank. My interest is definitely wavering. Not sure how others feel but my days are limited. The free ticket to a future world cup may just keep me alive

Tranquillo. Light some vanilla incense candles and turn on the Gregorian Monk Music tape.

It is messy, frustrating and Pragnell's competence has dropped alot in my eyes. But the AWs probably don't play a competitive game in 2 years, and the next World Cup is 3 years away. There is no rush. I'd rather NZF get the best gaffer they can, so if that means stumbling along for a few more months yet, so be it.

coochiee

Tranquillo. Light some vanilla incense candles and turn on the Gregorian Monk Music tape.

It is messy, frustrating and Pragnell's competence has dropped alot in my eyes. But the AWs probably don't play a competitive game in 2 years, and the next World Cup is 3 years away. There is no rush. I'd rather NZF get the best gaffer they can, so if that means stumbling along for a few more months yet, so be it.

That assumes that Prganell manages to get a decent/capable gaffer. I have my doubts that he even knows what the looks like.

theprof

coochiee

Tranquillo. Light some vanilla incense candles and turn on the Gregorian Monk Music tape.

It is messy, frustrating and Pragnell's competence has dropped alot in my eyes. But the AWs probably don't play a competitive game in 2 years, and the next World Cup is 3 years away. There is no rush. I'd rather NZF get the best gaffer they can, so if that means stumbling along for a few more months yet, so be it.

That assumes that Prganell manages to get a decent/capable gaffer. I have my doubts that he even knows what the looks like.

 Maybe Pragnell is waiting till Pragnell gets fired so we end up with the coach being hired by someone competent.

Maaaaaaatt

theprof

coochiee

Tranquillo. Light some vanilla incense candles and turn on the Gregorian Monk Music tape.

It is messy, frustrating and Pragnell's competence has dropped alot in my eyes. But the AWs probably don't play a competitive game in 2 years, and the next World Cup is 3 years away. There is no rush. I'd rather NZF get the best gaffer they can, so if that means stumbling along for a few more months yet, so be it.

That assumes that Prganell manages to get a decent/capable gaffer. I have my doubts that he even knows what the looks like.

 Maybe Pragnell is waiting till Pragnell gets fired so we end up with the coach being hired by someone competent.

That would be a surprisingly competent result. I somehow think that even Pragnell would screw it up.

The flack Pragnell is getting. Would you guys prefer Andy Martin back at the helm of NZF?

Ranix

The flack Pragnell is getting. Would you guys prefer Andy Martin back at the helm of NZF?

Pragnell is probably marginally the better of the two, so no - but that doesnt remove the shambles of an organisation that NZF remains since Pragnell came on-board.

Is there potentially an unnamed, third person that could be a CEO? Wasn't aware it was a coin flip.

It’s NZ football guys! Slightly ahead of Jamaican bobsled and Japanese cricket. We’ve actually punched above our weight a lot, but we have little clout or cash. Waiting or chasing a 40/60 proposition for a decent coach might be our best play in a situation. Let’s be honest, we as fans lack a certain something compared to ultras worldwide…

Pragnell seems to be a good operator at governance / corporate level

IMHO he come across as professional and with a decent emotional intellegence

He is the face of the recruitment process, and is not the only individual working on it. Unfortunately for him, it seems to have become accepted that NZF is Pragnell working full time on everything that NZF does, and stuffing the whole lot up.

reg22

Pragnell seems to be a good operator at governance / corporate level

IMHO he come across as professional and with a decent emotional intellegence

He is the face of the recruitment process, and is not the only individual working on it. Unfortunately for him, it seems to have become accepted that NZF is Pragnell working full time on everything that NZF does, and stuffing the whole lot up.

As the face of the organisation and the person with the "I'm the boss" title he holds all responsibility.

theprof

reg22

Pragnell seems to be a good operator at governance / corporate level

IMHO he come across as professional and with a decent emotional intellegence

He is the face of the recruitment process, and is not the only individual working on it. Unfortunately for him, it seems to have become accepted that NZF is Pragnell working full time on everything that NZF does, and stuffing the whole lot up.

As the face of the organisation and the person with the "I'm the boss" title he holds all responsibility.

Yes, as CEO Pragnell carries responsibility for the wellbeing of the sport in this country. But does he carry blame? Is sacking Pragnell the answer?

Let's say we do, and we bring in the next sucker. Does blame just shift that next individual? 

The fact is, the organisation is broken and has been forever. The degree of broken-ness seems to have peaked under Andy Martin. We sacked Martin and got Pragnell. It takes a many years of incompetence to create a poor organisation and it will probably take even longer to fix it.  

The real question is, are we headed in the right direction under Pragnell or not? I think it would be prudent of the board to conduct a follow up review to the previous review for them to be sure that we are headed in the right direction.

The organisation screwing up a coaching appointment is not the only measure.

reg22

theprof

reg22

Pragnell seems to be a good operator at governance / corporate level

IMHO he come across as professional and with a decent emotional intellegence

He is the face of the recruitment process, and is not the only individual working on it. Unfortunately for him, it seems to have become accepted that NZF is Pragnell working full time on everything that NZF does, and stuffing the whole lot up.

As the face of the organisation and the person with the "I'm the boss" title he holds all responsibility.

Yes, as CEO Pragnell carries responsibility for the wellbeing of the sport in this country. But does he carry blame? Is sacking Pragnell the answer?

Let's say we do, and we bring in the next sucker. Does blame just shift that next individual? 

The fact is, the organisation is broken and has been forever. The degree of broken-ness seems to have peaked under Andy Martin. We sacked Martin and got Pragnell. It takes a many years of incompetence to create a poor organisation and it will probably take even longer to fix it.  

The real question is, are we headed in the right direction under Pragnell or not? I think it would be prudent of the board to conduct a follow up review to the previous review for them to be sure that we are headed in the right direction.

The organisation screwing up a coaching appointment is not the only measure.

True the appointment of a coach is one aspect of the job. But he was part of the team the appointed Klimkova for life! He's is also the face of the organisation that has said "we can't play the men's team at home because we're broke/focussing on the women" - I would have though his fiscal management of the organisation was a key part of his job.

And you're correct the organisation has been broken for a long period, wel;l before Pragnell and co, but I'm not conviced it has improved during his tenure.

theprof

reg22

theprof

reg22

Pragnell seems to be a good operator at governance / corporate level

IMHO he come across as professional and with a decent emotional intellegence

He is the face of the recruitment process, and is not the only individual working on it. Unfortunately for him, it seems to have become accepted that NZF is Pragnell working full time on everything that NZF does, and stuffing the whole lot up.

As the face of the organisation and the person with the "I'm the boss" title he holds all responsibility.

Yes, as CEO Pragnell carries responsibility for the wellbeing of the sport in this country. But does he carry blame? Is sacking Pragnell the answer?

Let's say we do, and we bring in the next sucker. Does blame just shift that next individual? 

The fact is, the organisation is broken and has been forever. The degree of broken-ness seems to have peaked under Andy Martin. We sacked Martin and got Pragnell. It takes a many years of incompetence to create a poor organisation and it will probably take even longer to fix it.  

The real question is, are we headed in the right direction under Pragnell or not? I think it would be prudent of the board to conduct a follow up review to the previous review for them to be sure that we are headed in the right direction.

The organisation screwing up a coaching appointment is not the only measure.

True the appointment of a coach is one aspect of the job. But he was part of the team the appointed Klimkova for life! He's is also the face of the organisation that has said "we can't play the men's team at home because we're broke/focussing on the women" - I would have though his fiscal management of the organisation was a key part of his job.

sound fiscal management is, quite literally, making decisions like that one

debaing the merits of these fiscal decisions is a different matter entirely. IMO there have been numerous bad calls and also quite a few screw ups. but an optimist would say that at least NZF no longer engage in illegal workplace practices, and you'd hope there are now less screw ups than before.

i actually have no idea whether we are in a better position or not. the board should know and many others around NZF would have some idea. if we are not, then yeah absolutely, Pragnell deserves all of the blame that he is getting.

It's irked me over the last 10-15 years the Ferns have played alot more than the AWs, when it's the AWs who have bought the cash into the International Teams Fund. 

But that's partly because the Ferns qualify for every WC & Olympics plus get invites to various other tourneys. Also to be fair to Pragnell the AWs have played 3 of their last 4 games at home - and against top 100 ranked opponents. Lets see how his promise of the AWs now playing in every window (except when Olywhites play) up to 2026 goes now.

He's had both pluses (winning cohosting WWC a big one) and minuses in his reign. Whereas with Martin it seemed wholly bad news.

coochiee

It's irked me over the last 10-15 years the Ferns have played alot more than the AWs, when it's the AWs who have bought the cash into the International Teams Fund. 

But that's partly because the Ferns qualify for every WC & Olympics plus get invites to various other tourneys. Also to be fair to Pragnell the AWs have played 3 of their last 4 games at home - and against top 100 ranked opponents. Lets see how his promise of the AWs now playing in every window (except when Olywhites play) up to 2026 goes now.

He's had both pluses (winning cohosting WWC a big one) and minuses in his reign. Whereas with Martin it seemed wholly bad news.

Exactly, people screaming and howling that everything is terrible and needs reform over one bungled up coaching appointment is absurd. 

I for one think they've done a mostly good job with reforming the NZ National League for example. Helped get WWC bid over the line. Helped bring in Wellington Phoenix A-League Women team. 

But nope, just because people are impatient for one coaching announcemet for a team that won't play competitively until mid 2024, clearly it means the whole NZF is fudgeed and should all clear out. 

lthomas20

coochiee

It's irked me over the last 10-15 years the Ferns have played alot more than the AWs, when it's the AWs who have bought the cash into the International Teams Fund. 

But that's partly because the Ferns qualify for every WC & Olympics plus get invites to various other tourneys. Also to be fair to Pragnell the AWs have played 3 of their last 4 games at home - and against top 100 ranked opponents. Lets see how his promise of the AWs now playing in every window (except when Olywhites play) up to 2026 goes now.

He's had both pluses (winning cohosting WWC a big one) and minuses in his reign. Whereas with Martin it seemed wholly bad news.

Exactly, people screaming and howling that everything is terrible and needs reform over one bungled up coaching appointment is absurd. 

I for one think they've done a mostly good job with reforming the NZ National League for example. Helped get WWC bid over the line. Helped bring in Wellington Phoenix A-League Women team. 

But nope, just because people are impatient for one coaching announcemet for a team that won't play competitively until mid 2024, clearly it means the whole NZF is fudgeed and should all clear out. 

think you're forgetting the years of the emn's team being AWOL from NZ, ac couple of good wins things doesnt erase the errors.

theprof

lthomas20

coochiee

It's irked me over the last 10-15 years the Ferns have played alot more than the AWs, when it's the AWs who have bought the cash into the International Teams Fund. 

But that's partly because the Ferns qualify for every WC & Olympics plus get invites to various other tourneys. Also to be fair to Pragnell the AWs have played 3 of their last 4 games at home - and against top 100 ranked opponents. Lets see how his promise of the AWs now playing in every window (except when Olywhites play) up to 2026 goes now.

He's had both pluses (winning cohosting WWC a big one) and minuses in his reign. Whereas with Martin it seemed wholly bad news.

Exactly, people screaming and howling that everything is terrible and needs reform over one bungled up coaching appointment is absurd. 

I for one think they've done a mostly good job with reforming the NZ National League for example. Helped get WWC bid over the line. Helped bring in Wellington Phoenix A-League Women team. 

But nope, just because people are impatient for one coaching announcemet for a team that won't play competitively until mid 2024, clearly it means the whole NZF is fudgeed and should all clear out. 

think you're forgetting the years of the emn's team being AWOL from NZ, ac couple of good wins things doesnt erase the errors.

Yes but that again was mostly Martin and before. I don't remember when Pragnell came in (first as interim). But Hay's first matches were in Nov 2019, then Covid happened before the next March 2020 window. Basically as soon as the borders allowed it, we have had home AWs games. On getting the mens national team to play at home, Pragnell done good.

Lets see how AWs programme eventuates going forward, who eventually is appointed AWs coach (bumbling mess it currently is), and how the Ferns & Klimkova go - before #Pragnell Out becomes a thing. He's made some mistakes hopefully he can fix them up.


 

Please don’t go on about this guys sound financial management from this car salesman.  Next thing you will be telling me how much salary we have saved not appointing a national coach 

I don't have NZ Herald premium anymore, what's the new Burgess article saying 

imanixsupporter

I don't have NZ Herald premium anymore, what's the new Burgess article saying 

Brings nothing new to the discussion.  Just restates Canada Soccer is in a bit of disarray, and Herdman might like the lifestyle here. And a guaranteed WC place could be enough to lure Buckingham away from CFG. Same stuff we've heard for the last 6 months just rinsed and repeated with a slightly different headline.

imanixsupporter

I don't have NZ Herald premium anymore, what's the new Burgess article saying 

https://archive.is/B4kvQ

Just a lot of rehashed points that have already been covered. Nothing else really in it.

I did laugh at this sentence though.

'Pragnell also said that they hoped to finish the process by June.'

So we should know who's got the job by October...