WC Intercontinental Playoff vs Costa Rica | Tue 14th June (15th NZT) | 9pm (6am NZT)

AucklandPhoenix

mrsmiis

Think it's strange that people are writing off Sail for a single error, despite his ability being pretty damn evident over the past season

Would you find it strange and forgive him if he did it in against Costa Rica, we lost one nil and we didn’t go to the World Cup because of it? School boy errors from a goal keeper have no place at this stage 

He was given a chance to prove he was number one and unfortunately failed. 

Guess we can't play Marinovic either because of that mix-up he had with Reid vs. Peru in 2017 then

mrsmiis

AucklandPhoenix

mrsmiis

Think it's strange that people are writing off Sail for a single error, despite his ability being pretty damn evident over the past season

Would you find it strange and forgive him if he did it in against Costa Rica, we lost one nil and we didn’t go to the World Cup because of it? School boy errors from a goal keeper have no place at this stage 

He was given a chance to prove he was number one and unfortunately failed. 

Guess we can't play Marinovic either because of that mix-up he had with Reid vs. Peru in 2017 then

Matt Gould it is then.

Yes we have the talent to try and control the game against decent opposition, but Peru is a bit better than that.

People blaming Payne for the goal in any shape or form is laughable. Sail could have hit it first time if he wanted to. He obviously thought the pass was fine and that he had time otherwise he wouldn't of taken a touch.

Bad touches happen, this cost us. simple.

Hay has proven with Woud (on multiple occasions) that he is willing to forgive mistakes.

mrsmiis

AucklandPhoenix

mrsmiis

Think it's strange that people are writing off Sail for a single error, despite his ability being pretty damn evident over the past season

Would you find it strange and forgive him if he did it in against Costa Rica, we lost one nil and we didn’t go to the World Cup because of it? School boy errors from a goal keeper have no place at this stage 

He was given a chance to prove he was number one and unfortunately failed. 

Guess we can't play Marinovic either because of that mix-up he had with Reid vs. Peru in 2017 then

Marinovic did get back and save it after that mix-up, and kept a clean sheet in that game, if Sail had managed to get back to save Lapadula’s shot then, similarly, it’d be a non-event.
 
I haven’t written off Sail after one game, my opinion hasn’t changed in that I prefer Marinovic. That also doesn’t mean I think Sail is a bad keeper, but you can only play one. I can’t really recall him ever letting himself down in a New Zealand shirt, he was quite literally the difference between us and the island teams under Hudson, and kept things respectable in the big games in Russia and vs Peru in 2017. He himself was dropped for Sail after one goal-conceding mistake last season, so there’s no reason why it can’t be reciprocated. It’s a moot point though, Hay stuck with Woud and I suspect it’ll be the same now.

MetalLegNZ

Yes we have the talent to try and control the game against decent opposition, but Peru is a bit better than that.

People blaming Payne for the goal in any shape or form is laughable. Sail could have hit it first time if he wanted to. He obviously thought the pass was fine and that he had time otherwise he wouldn't of taken a touch.

Bad touches happen, this cost us. simple.

Hay has proven with Woud (on multiple occasions) that he is willing to forgive mistakes.

Peru yes, Costa Rica no. 

We shouldn't sit back with a defensive bias against Costa Rica. They are a good side, but not THAT good. We have the talent and ability to go out and control (or at least attempt to) the game. 

For this reason, I'd play a back 4, not a back 5. A back 5 is defensively biased. It gives the opposition more space, just by virtue of the formation, which allows technical teams like the Central/South American sides to just control and dominate possession. It's such a bad set up IMO.

It also means we are sacrificing a player like Rojas/Just/Lewis/etc, for a defender like Pijnaker/Boxall/Smith. We have to WIN this match, so we need to start a team that will take the initiative, rather than sit back and allow the opposition time and freedom on the ball.

He hasn’t stuck with Woud, he has dropped him. 

carlind

mrsmiis

AucklandPhoenix

mrsmiis

Think it's strange that people are writing off Sail for a single error, despite his ability being pretty damn evident over the past season

Would you find it strange and forgive him if he did it in against Costa Rica, we lost one nil and we didn’t go to the World Cup because of it? School boy errors from a goal keeper have no place at this stage 

He was given a chance to prove he was number one and unfortunately failed. 

Guess we can't play Marinovic either because of that mix-up he had with Reid vs. Peru in 2017 then

Marinovic did get back and save it after that mix-up, and kept a clean sheet in that game, if Sail had managed to get back to save Lapadula’s shot then, similarly, it’d be a non-event.
 
I haven’t written off Sail after one game, my opinion hasn’t changed in that I prefer Marinovic. That also doesn’t mean I think Sail is a bad keeper, but you can only play one. I can’t really recall him ever letting himself down in a New Zealand shirt, he was quite literally the difference between us and the island teams under Hudson, and kept things respectable in the big games in Russia and vs Peru in 2017. He himself was dropped for Sail after one goal-conceding mistake last season, so there’s no reason why it can’t be reciprocated. It’s a moot point though, Hay stuck with Woud and I suspect it’ll be the same now.

He hasn’t stuck with Would.

carlind

mrsmiis

AucklandPhoenix

mrsmiis

Think it's strange that people are writing off Sail for a single error, despite his ability being pretty damn evident over the past season

Would you find it strange and forgive him if he did it in against Costa Rica, we lost one nil and we didn’t go to the World Cup because of it? School boy errors from a goal keeper have no place at this stage 

He was given a chance to prove he was number one and unfortunately failed. 

Guess we can't play Marinovic either because of that mix-up he had with Reid vs. Peru in 2017 then

Marinovic did get back and save it after that mix-up, and kept a clean sheet in that game, if Sail had managed to get back to save Lapadula’s shot then, similarly, it’d be a non-event.
 
I haven’t written off Sail after one game, my opinion hasn’t changed in that I prefer Marinovic. That also doesn’t mean I think Sail is a bad keeper, but you can only play one. I can’t really recall him ever letting himself down in a New Zealand shirt, he was quite literally the difference between us and the island teams under Hudson, and kept things respectable in the big games in Russia and vs Peru in 2017. He himself was dropped for Sail after one goal-conceding mistake last season, so there’s no reason why it can’t be reciprocated. It’s a moot point though, Hay stuck with Woud and I suspect it’ll be the same now.

Woud got multiple chances before being "dropped".

A question Hay must be asking himself in regards to playing 4 or 5 at the back is, does he think we are more likely to score in open play or through a set piece? If it's a set piece you go with the extra timber in the back, play for fouls/corners etc. If through open play, you bring in a Rojas, someone who can hit a pass or beat a player at the expense of an extra defender.

Personally I think without Thomas and Singh, a set piece is more likely.

After the Peru match I think k you are right but beforehand I would have been amazed if neither Just or Rojas we starting in the front 3.

If CR do play a low block I don’t think that the diamond midfield  works and i think we will need three up front to pull their CBs out of position. Not a fan of this shape but if we do use it then I think you are right. 

Friar Tuck

Unless some players really show up or really disappoint vs Oman, I think this is pretty likely for the starting XI. Based on the Peru game I reckon we need Pijnaker’s passing/switching ability and Lewis changed the game when he came on. Not sure if Greive still starts but I’d probably still have him there for his shooting and ability to draw the foul.

DE9634B4-5CAD-43C8-AE30-613B6680E207.jpeg 412.82 KB

I think it had more to do with the strategy. Hay wanted guys up for the challenge and the press.running your arse off. That’s not Marcos game. But we need at least one of Just or Marco to create something. Otherwise we aren’t threatening moving forward outside a set piece or cross from a wingback.

Really hope Hay does away with the 5-diamond - 1. It’s a good shape to combat a combative midfield but not one to create much. Certainly hasn’t been our most effective shape to date. We’ve been better with 3 up too and isolating fullbacks with good  dribblers receiving an early ball or getting in behind. 

valeo

Does anyone genuinely think Grieve and Garbett are better options than Rojas who's in the form of his life? 

Also think it's a bit concerning that we don't have a keeper we can rely on. I love Oli but he's no Paston 

Loved Garbett's competitive, niggly attitude against Peru. Think Stamenic has it in him too, but he didn't have a good half in Barcelona. Lewis can also be a niggly customer, and be cunning with drawing a foul. Bell a bit different, not as aggressive. Anyway they need to get in the Ticos faces a bit, rattle them, get under their skins, not let Borges control the tempo. How the game is reffed could be crucial. Emiratis got away with it a bit today against Socceroos. Plenty of boots standing on ankles.

Following his strong performance against @SeleccionPeru, we caught up with Matt Garbett to ask about playing in front of over 30,000 fans at the @RCDEspanyol stadium and his huge last 12 months in football. pic.twitter.com/rMxjtYdpOg

— New Zealand Football (@NZ_Football) June 7, 2022

MetalLegNZ

Woud got multiple chances before being "dropped".

A question Hay must be asking himself in regards to playing 4 or 5 at the back is, does he think we are more likely to score in open play or through a set piece? If it's a set piece you go with the extra timber in the back, play for fouls/corners etc. If through open play, you bring in a Rojas, someone who can hit a pass or beat a player at the expense of an extra defender.

Personally I think without Thomas and Singh, a set piece is more likely.

First it's absolutely crucial we start rock solid at the back. Concede early and it's going to be very very tough to find an equaliser. They will drop deep, Navas is world class, and they will just use their vast experience to slow everything down milk pens all day long. Then try and find a killer 2nd goal on the counter.

But if AWs can keep it 0-0 deep in the game, or even better score early, the favoured Ticos under all that pressure back home, will start to get nervous, even with all that experience.

Libby is one of our best players, maybe at this moment on current form our best. We want him on the ball as much as possible. Does a back 3/5, allow that more than a back 4? It sounds like the Ticos right edge could be a weak link. Get the ball to Libby. Maybe he can draw some fouls in handy positions, and we can swing in some free kicks. Something that didn't happen against Peru. Kirwan I thought also looked pretty good at times against the Peruvians.

Sure we struggled to retain possession against Peru, but alot of that was due to poor decisions/passes as much as the setup. I'd start Lewis ahead of Stamenic, but having said that Marko will be a better for the experience against the Peruvians. Less nerves against the Ticos you'd hope. We should also have more space in midfield against CR, they will likely only have one young mobile midfielder to press the AWs hard, alongside the older slower Borges & Tejeda. They will play deeper than Peru.

I'd also start Pijnaker ahead of Smith, as thought he linked well with Cacace, and was our best cover defender - though helped he was pretty fresh that 2nd half. Tuiloma I don't know. His passing was poor, missed Libby at least twice with switches. He can't do that again - but another who maybe more relaxed/less tense 2nd time around. But Boxall could come in as right CB.

Real pity there is no Confeds Cup in this cycle to give us 3 tough games in front of proper crowds with real tension. Hay really only has this Peru game to go off re making some big selection/setup calls. Don't think the previous friendlies/OFC tourney games have much relevance to CR, as to what the best shape should be. Maybe only the Tahiti semi final game, when we had to be patient against a well coached team sitting deep. Hay felt Tahiti was AWs toughest game of late apart from Peru - massive step up that it was.

If it is 0-0 (or anything but AWs ahead) by mid 2nd half, then I wouldn't mind seeing a bold move by Hay, like bringing on an attacker for a CB. Go 4 at the back. This is what he did in the Japanese QF at the Olympics (Reid who was injured, off for McCowatt). And we went toe to toe with the heavily favoured Japanese. Could have won that game for sure. The older Ticos players could be starting to tire, so have a real crack at them. If it goes to pens (as it well could) they have a big big advantage with Navas in goal. As others have said he will be the best player on the pitch, and a huge presence.

Has the ref been named yet for the game? See a Slovenian is in charge of Aus verus UAE today
https://refereeingworld.blogspot.com/2022/05/fifa-world-cup-2022-qualifiers.html

Ninja

LG

How can Hay say he likes attacking football when he likes 5 at the back and the emphasis is on defend, defend, defend, hit them on the break, then defend, defend, defend.

I know you've got a bit of stick for this comment, but I agree with you 100%. 5 at the back is too defensive - it automatically sets the tone for the match and gives the opposition space to control the game. 

We have the talent these days to go out there are try and control the game against decent opposition. Let's use our talent and not divert to the usual defensive bias.

if, Hay was playing a flat 5 at the back then you're claim of being too defensive would be accurate. But,. he doesn't, he set us up with3 CB's and two wing backs - wing backs are an attacking option, but give us the defense needed when the opposition overloads the midfield. On attack the wingbacks become wingers, giving you 5 in the midfield to find the 2 up front. Very few international teams will line up 4-4-2, Most will be a variant of 4-3-3, or 4-5-1. Especially in games that matter. Friendlies are an opportunity to try things out, this game was a good one to test how we'd fare against a quality side - Peru tested us our defence and had probably 3/4 clear scoring chances, of which they scored one. If we can do that against CR then the pressure of WC quals could make the opposition panic and we get more scoring chances.

Defence wins you tournaments, and we have a solid unit at the back, we jusy need out scoring options to take the chances that we get - because we are never gonna see the AW's get 25+ shots against any opposition except the Pacific Island teams.

I can still see Marinovic scrambling now to claw that ball off the line lol

mrsmiis

AucklandPhoenix

mrsmiis

Think it's strange that people are writing off Sail for a single error, despite his ability being pretty damn evident over the past season

Would you find it strange and forgive him if he did it in against Costa Rica, we lost one nil and we didn’t go to the World Cup because of it? School boy errors from a goal keeper have no place at this stage 

He was given a chance to prove he was number one and unfortunately failed. 

Guess we can't play Marinovic either because of that mix-up he had with Reid vs. Peru in 2017 then

 

Presumably the open air trainings are late in the day/at night. The heat, but also if the Playoff goes to pens will be close to a midnight finish local time.

Who made the best save in training? pic.twitter.com/J9VKOlBHrF

— New Zealand Football (@NZ_Football) June 7, 2022

Warming up in the air conditioned Education City Stadium 🏟 pic.twitter.com/3z2hi5gdFw

— New Zealand Football (@NZ_Football) June 7, 2022

Surely the bench is the place to be?
If history has taught us anything, it's that the #1 keeper in the qualifiers will be #2 at the World Cup.

carlind

mrsmiis

AucklandPhoenix

mrsmiis

Think it's strange that people are writing off Sail for a single error, despite his ability being pretty damn evident over the past season

Would you find it strange and forgive him if he did it in against Costa Rica, we lost one nil and we didn’t go to the World Cup because of it? School boy errors from a goal keeper have no place at this stage 

He was given a chance to prove he was number one and unfortunately failed. 

Guess we can't play Marinovic either because of that mix-up he had with Reid vs. Peru in 2017 then

Marinovic did get back and save it after that mix-up, and kept a clean sheet in that game, if Sail had managed to get back to save Lapadula’s shot then, similarly, it’d be a non-event.
 
I haven’t written off Sail after one game, my opinion hasn’t changed in that I prefer Marinovic. That also doesn’t mean I think Sail is a bad keeper, but you can only play one. I can’t really recall him ever letting himself down in a New Zealand shirt, he was quite literally the difference between us and the island teams under Hudson, and kept things respectable in the big games in Russia and vs Peru in 2017. He himself was dropped for Sail after one goal-conceding mistake last season, so there’s no reason why it can’t be reciprocated. It’s a moot point though, Hay stuck with Woud and I suspect it’ll be the same now.

coochiee

Presumably the open air trainings are late in the day/at night. The heat, but also if the Playoff goes to pens will be close to a midnight finish local time.

Who made the best save in training? pic.twitter.com/J9VKOlBHrF

— New Zealand Football (@NZ_Football) June 7, 2022

Warming up in the air conditioned Education City Stadium 🏟 pic.twitter.com/3z2hi5gdFw

— New Zealand Football (@NZ_Football) June 7, 2022

The commentator in the UAE v Aussie game this morning, said the temp in the air conditioned stadium was 18 degrees....

We are buzzing for it. Going to be special out there. Any stray kiwis not linked in yet let me know

theprof

Ninja

LG

How can Hay say he likes attacking football when he likes 5 at the back and the emphasis is on defend, defend, defend, hit them on the break, then defend, defend, defend.

I know you've got a bit of stick for this comment, but I agree with you 100%. 5 at the back is too defensive - it automatically sets the tone for the match and gives the opposition space to control the game. 

We have the talent these days to go out there are try and control the game against decent opposition. Let's use our talent and not divert to the usual defensive bias.

if, Hay was playing a flat 5 at the back then you're claim of being too defensive would be accurate. But,. he doesn't, he set us up with3 CB's and two wing backs - wing backs are an attacking option, but give us the defense needed when the opposition overloads the midfield. On attack the wingbacks become wingers, giving you 5 in the midfield to find the 2 up front. Very few international teams will line up 4-4-2, Most will be a variant of 4-3-3, or 4-5-1. Especially in games that matter. Friendlies are an opportunity to try things out, this game was a good one to test how we'd fare against a quality side - Peru tested us our defence and had probably 3/4 clear scoring chances, of which they scored one. If we can do that against CR then the pressure of WC quals could make the opposition panic and we get more scoring chances.

Defence wins you tournaments, and we have a solid unit at the back, we jusy need out scoring options to take the chances that we get - because we are never gonna see the AW's get 25+ shots against any opposition except the Pacific Island teams.

The problem with this formation is that, so often, the wing backs get pinned back, which essentially forms a flat back 5. And furthermore, once we do get possession back, we're usually picking the ball up from deep in our own half, limiting the effectiveness of the wing-backs in an attacking sense.

You have to control the game, and possession, to allow the wing-backs to act as attacking wingers. Otherwise, the wing-backs cannot push up enough because you risk getting caught out with essentially a back 3. If you don't control possession, you're essentially playing counter-attacking football, which is a defensive style of football that gives the initiative to the other team.

I would actually contend that Attack wins you tournaments. You have to score goals to win football matches. If you are purely defending, you will never win tournaments. 

To be effective in attack, in the long-run (i.e. consistently effective), you need to set up with an attacking-biased team. Look at the best teams in the world - there are more skillfull, technical, and attack-minded players than defensive players. Look at the best teams in the world and I think you'll find it rare for them to set up with a 5-3-3 or 5-4-1 formation.

Who saw the Australia vs UAE game. Would you have preferred Australia in the play off?. I'm still more optimistic about Australia's chances to qualify than NZ. The Asian qualifiers are just as testing as Conmebol and concacaf. So peru and Australia will be equally battle hardened, compared to NZ vs Costa Rica 

morgenstern12

Who saw the Australia vs UAE game. Would you have preferred Australia in the play off?. I'm still more optimistic about Australia's chances to qualify than NZ. The Asian qualifiers are just as testing as Conmebol and concacaf. So peru and Australia will be equally battle hardened, compared to NZ vs Costa Rica 

I watched about half of it... I think Peru will beat them. They looked pretty shakey in defence especially on their right. 

I would say Peru is best of the 4 teams, then a gap to CR and Australia. Then another gap to NZ. 

Which is about what the world ranking say too. I would give us about a 35% chance vs both CR and Australia so no preference. Am sure Australia is wishing they got NZ though! 

Ninja

theprof

Ninja

LG

How can Hay say he likes attacking football when he likes 5 at the back and the emphasis is on defend, defend, defend, hit them on the break, then defend, defend, defend.

I know you've got a bit of stick for this comment, but I agree with you 100%. 5 at the back is too defensive - it automatically sets the tone for the match and gives the opposition space to control the game. 

We have the talent these days to go out there are try and control the game against decent opposition. Let's use our talent and not divert to the usual defensive bias.

if, Hay was playing a flat 5 at the back then you're claim of being too defensive would be accurate. But,. he doesn't, he set us up with3 CB's and two wing backs - wing backs are an attacking option, but give us the defense needed when the opposition overloads the midfield. On attack the wingbacks become wingers, giving you 5 in the midfield to find the 2 up front. Very few international teams will line up 4-4-2, Most will be a variant of 4-3-3, or 4-5-1. Especially in games that matter. Friendlies are an opportunity to try things out, this game was a good one to test how we'd fare against a quality side - Peru tested us our defence and had probably 3/4 clear scoring chances, of which they scored one. If we can do that against CR then the pressure of WC quals could make the opposition panic and we get more scoring chances.

Defence wins you tournaments, and we have a solid unit at the back, we jusy need out scoring options to take the chances that we get - because we are never gonna see the AW's get 25+ shots against any opposition except the Pacific Island teams.

The problem with this formation is that, so often, the wing backs get pinned back, which essentially forms a flat back 5. And furthermore, once we do get possession back, we're usually picking the ball up from deep in our own half, limiting the effectiveness of the wing-backs in an attacking sense.

You have to control the game, and possession, to allow the wing-backs to act as attacking wingers. Otherwise, the wing-backs cannot push up enough because you risk getting caught out with essentially a back 3. If you don't control possession, you're essentially playing counter-attacking football, which is a defensive style of football that gives the initiative to the other team.

I would actually contend that Attack wins you tournaments. You have to score goals to win football matches. If you are purely defending, you will never win tournaments. 

To be effective in attack, in the long-run (i.e. consistently effective), you need to set up with an attacking-biased team. Look at the best teams in the world - there are more skillfull, technical, and attack-minded players than defensive players. Look at the best teams in the world and I think you'll find it rare for them to set up with a 5-3-3 or 5-4-1 formation.

 
If we beat Costa Rica, we have a World Cup group with Spain, Germany and Japan, all of whom are better than Peru. Against those three we would likely have, at most, a third of the ball, so might as well train how you’re going to play. I wouldn’t be surprised if that has played at least a small part in Hay’s thinking as to how to approach these games, just as how he played 3 centrebacks in the OFC qualifying.

A midfield three of Bell, Singh and Stamenic/Lewis is good for previous standards for a NZ team, and they’re all are relatively young, but they’d get eaten alive by a Gündogan/Kimmich/Goretzka, Koke/Rodri/Gavi or even a Kamada/Endo/Minamino midfield. We have to be realistic in that we aren’t going to beat those teams at their own game of possession and high-pressing, it’ll be by stoic defence and counter-attacking. The best chance of getting a result at the World Cup would be by shoring up the defence, and best way is to play a 5-3-2 (or the more adventurous 3-4-3), as opposed to lining up 4-3-3, getting overrun, and end up on a 4/5/6-0 hiding.

If Australia did qualify and NZ didn't, I'd be doubtful they would want to come all the way to NZ for friendlies in September. I would assume it would be a mostly domestic squad in those two friendlies if none of them qualify. 

Australia will want to make sure they are getting their best players together as much as possible once qualifying as with everyone else.

It will be a full strength squad. Everyone wants to be front and centre of the coaches thinking so close to the main event.

siac

morgenstern12

Who saw the Australia vs UAE game. Would you have preferred Australia in the play off?. I'm still more optimistic about Australia's chances to qualify than NZ. The Asian qualifiers are just as testing as Conmebol and concacaf. So peru and Australia will be equally battle hardened, compared to NZ vs Costa Rica 

I watched about half of it... I think Peru will beat them. They looked pretty shakey in defence especially on their right. 

I would say Peru is best of the 4 teams, then a gap to CR and Australia. Then another gap to NZ. 

Which is about what the world ranking say too. I would give us about a 35% chance vs both CR and Australia so no preference. Am sure Australia is wishing they got NZ though! 

Based on what I saw, definitely Peru.

In my excitement for the play-off, I whipped up a rip off version of the posters made by @PaniniCheapskates.

06772D3D-64FF-439B-8E58-4BAB0954E6C9.png 3.68 MB

(It’s just for fun btw, I have no intention to try profit off of someone else’s work.)

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2022/6/8/all-whites-vs-peru-the-preparation-continues

There are areas in which the All Whites absolutely need to improve if they’re to beat Costa Rica. Gotta create better shooting opportunities. Gotta earn more attacking set pieces. Gotta be more clinical in the passing game. Can’t concede a soft-arse goal like that.

Great to be with All Whites on journey from Barcelona to Doha, as the countdown begins.

A fascinating behind the scenes experience.

(Good team unity too, as some players swapped their business class seats with others halfway through...)https://t.co/INrpI6lFdG

— Michael Burgess (@mikeburgess99) June 7, 2022

morgenstern12

Who saw the Australia vs UAE game. Would you have preferred Australia in the play off?. I'm still more optimistic about Australia's chances to qualify than NZ. The Asian qualifiers are just as testing as Conmebol and concacaf. So peru and Australia will be equally battle hardened, compared to NZ vs Costa Rica 

No way is AFC qualifying (or CONCACAF) as tough as CONMEBOL. Not only is the standard higher in South America (only Venezuela of the 10 teams are consistently weak) but the all the sides use home advantage to the max.

Colombia play their home games in the scorching heat of Barranqullia even though it is only the 4th biggest city in the country with 1/5 the popn of Bogota. Ecuador play their games in Quito at 2,900 metres, even though their football heartland (where most of the players come from) is in Guayaquil. Bolivia play at 3,600 metres in La Paz, and have a formidable record there.

8 of the 10 CONEMBOL sides are FIFA ranked virtually in the top 50 (yes Paraguay is at 51). Only Venezuela & Bolivia are lower ranked. AFC has 6 teams in FIFA top 50, and CONCACAF has 4 teams in the top 50.

Peru are better than Australia, and the core of their side has been together a few years now. Coach was there in 2017. Socceroos look a bit of a panicked mess at the moment, Arnie chopping & changing. Big upset I think if they win. One advantage is they know the Middle East well, whilst is somewhat out of the Peruvians Latino comfort zone (unlike Barcelona which was basically Lima for them).

carlind

Ninja

theprof

Ninja

LG

How can Hay say he likes attacking football when he likes 5 at the back and the emphasis is on defend, defend, defend, hit them on the break, then defend, defend, defend.

I know you've got a bit of stick for this comment, but I agree with you 100%. 5 at the back is too defensive - it automatically sets the tone for the match and gives the opposition space to control the game. 

We have the talent these days to go out there are try and control the game against decent opposition. Let's use our talent and not divert to the usual defensive bias.

if, Hay was playing a flat 5 at the back then you're claim of being too defensive would be accurate. But,. he doesn't, he set us up with3 CB's and two wing backs - wing backs are an attacking option, but give us the defense needed when the opposition overloads the midfield. On attack the wingbacks become wingers, giving you 5 in the midfield to find the 2 up front. Very few international teams will line up 4-4-2, Most will be a variant of 4-3-3, or 4-5-1. Especially in games that matter. Friendlies are an opportunity to try things out, this game was a good one to test how we'd fare against a quality side - Peru tested us our defence and had probably 3/4 clear scoring chances, of which they scored one. If we can do that against CR then the pressure of WC quals could make the opposition panic and we get more scoring chances.

Defence wins you tournaments, and we have a solid unit at the back, we jusy need out scoring options to take the chances that we get - because we are never gonna see the AW's get 25+ shots against any opposition except the Pacific Island teams.

The problem with this formation is that, so often, the wing backs get pinned back, which essentially forms a flat back 5. And furthermore, once we do get possession back, we're usually picking the ball up from deep in our own half, limiting the effectiveness of the wing-backs in an attacking sense.

You have to control the game, and possession, to allow the wing-backs to act as attacking wingers. Otherwise, the wing-backs cannot push up enough because you risk getting caught out with essentially a back 3. If you don't control possession, you're essentially playing counter-attacking football, which is a defensive style of football that gives the initiative to the other team.

I would actually contend that Attack wins you tournaments. You have to score goals to win football matches. If you are purely defending, you will never win tournaments. 

To be effective in attack, in the long-run (i.e. consistently effective), you need to set up with an attacking-biased team. Look at the best teams in the world - there are more skillfull, technical, and attack-minded players than defensive players. Look at the best teams in the world and I think you'll find it rare for them to set up with a 5-3-3 or 5-4-1 formation.

 
If we beat Costa Rica, we have a World Cup group with Spain, Germany and Japan, all of whom are better than Peru. Against those three we would likely have, at most, a third of the ball, so might as well train how you’re going to play. I wouldn’t be surprised if that has played at least a small part in Hay’s thinking as to how to approach these games, just as how he played 3 centrebacks in the OFC qualifying.

A midfield three of Bell, Singh and Stamenic/Lewis is good for previous standards for a NZ team, and they’re all are relatively young, but they’d get eaten alive by a Gündogan/Kimmich/Goretzka, Koke/Rodri/Gavi or even a Kamada/Endo/Minamino midfield. We have to be realistic in that we aren’t going to beat those teams at their own game of possession and high-pressing, it’ll be by stoic defence and counter-attacking. The best chance of getting a result at the World Cup would be by shoring up the defence, and best way is to play a 5-3-2 (or the more adventurous 3-4-3), as opposed to lining up 4-3-3, getting overrun, and end up on a 4/5/6-0 hiding.

Yipe by NZ standards the midfield trio to play Costa Rica - Bell, Garbett and Stamenic/Lewis - are all very good players. 3 of those are very young, with hopefully high ceilings. They may all end up playing in a top 5 Euro League. Garbett is almost there now.

But compared to the Ticos, they are inexperienced pups. 34 yr old Celso Borges spent 4 seasons (14/15 to 17/18) with Deportivo La Coruña in La Liga. So a tonne of experience against some of the super stars of world football at Barcelona, Real Madrid and the other big Spanish clubs. He's going to have plenty of experienced team mates all around him, who have been there done that through this Golden Generation for CR. Man for man, they will likely be more skillful & technical than us. Certainly a shark load more experienced, especially, especially in midfield.

But our wingbacks (certainly Cacace) look maybe better than theirs. Their likely LB 32 yr old Oviedo, didn't play 1 game for FC Copenhagen this season. And sounds like they are still unsure who their RB will be.

Again we need to start the game very safe defensively, use our wingbacks to attack, but also bring Wood into the game more. Use his great hold up play, like he does in the EPL week in week out. Hopefully he will be sharper, better for the outing against Peru. He barely played the last month in the EPL for Newcastle. Peru was his first start since Man City 8th May, and after that just 20 mins against Burnley.

Then maybe be brave in the 2nd half and look to change the shape, go more attacking, lift the pace as some of their older & slower players hopefully (hopefully) start to fatigue. We don't want it going to pens.

PS. Japan (WR 23) ain't better than Peru (WR 22). FIFA has them as par as you can get, and I agree. Peru are a bloody good, well drilled side. It was the perfect hit out against them.

coochiee

carlind

Ninja

theprof

Ninja

LG

How can Hay say he likes attacking football when he likes 5 at the back and the emphasis is on defend, defend, defend, hit them on the break, then defend, defend, defend.

I know you've got a bit of stick for this comment, but I agree with you 100%. 5 at the back is too defensive - it automatically sets the tone for the match and gives the opposition space to control the game. 

We have the talent these days to go out there are try and control the game against decent opposition. Let's use our talent and not divert to the usual defensive bias.

if, Hay was playing a flat 5 at the back then you're claim of being too defensive would be accurate. But,. he doesn't, he set us up with3 CB's and two wing backs - wing backs are an attacking option, but give us the defense needed when the opposition overloads the midfield. On attack the wingbacks become wingers, giving you 5 in the midfield to find the 2 up front. Very few international teams will line up 4-4-2, Most will be a variant of 4-3-3, or 4-5-1. Especially in games that matter. Friendlies are an opportunity to try things out, this game was a good one to test how we'd fare against a quality side - Peru tested us our defence and had probably 3/4 clear scoring chances, of which they scored one. If we can do that against CR then the pressure of WC quals could make the opposition panic and we get more scoring chances.

Defence wins you tournaments, and we have a solid unit at the back, we jusy need out scoring options to take the chances that we get - because we are never gonna see the AW's get 25+ shots against any opposition except the Pacific Island teams.

The problem with this formation is that, so often, the wing backs get pinned back, which essentially forms a flat back 5. And furthermore, once we do get possession back, we're usually picking the ball up from deep in our own half, limiting the effectiveness of the wing-backs in an attacking sense.

You have to control the game, and possession, to allow the wing-backs to act as attacking wingers. Otherwise, the wing-backs cannot push up enough because you risk getting caught out with essentially a back 3. If you don't control possession, you're essentially playing counter-attacking football, which is a defensive style of football that gives the initiative to the other team.

I would actually contend that Attack wins you tournaments. You have to score goals to win football matches. If you are purely defending, you will never win tournaments. 

To be effective in attack, in the long-run (i.e. consistently effective), you need to set up with an attacking-biased team. Look at the best teams in the world - there are more skillfull, technical, and attack-minded players than defensive players. Look at the best teams in the world and I think you'll find it rare for them to set up with a 5-3-3 or 5-4-1 formation.

 
If we beat Costa Rica, we have a World Cup group with Spain, Germany and Japan, all of whom are better than Peru. Against those three we would likely have, at most, a third of the ball, so might as well train how you’re going to play. I wouldn’t be surprised if that has played at least a small part in Hay’s thinking as to how to approach these games, just as how he played 3 centrebacks in the OFC qualifying.

A midfield three of Bell, Singh and Stamenic/Lewis is good for previous standards for a NZ team, and they’re all are relatively young, but they’d get eaten alive by a Gündogan/Kimmich/Goretzka, Koke/Rodri/Gavi or even a Kamada/Endo/Minamino midfield. We have to be realistic in that we aren’t going to beat those teams at their own game of possession and high-pressing, it’ll be by stoic defence and counter-attacking. The best chance of getting a result at the World Cup would be by shoring up the defence, and best way is to play a 5-3-2 (or the more adventurous 3-4-3), as opposed to lining up 4-3-3, getting overrun, and end up on a 4/5/6-0 hiding.

Yipe by NZ standards the midfield trio to play Costa Rica - Bell, Garbett and Stamenic/Lewis - are all very good players. 3 of those are very young, with hopefully high ceilings. They may all end up playing in a top 5 Euro League. Garbett is almost there now.

But compared to the Ticos, they are inexperienced pups. 34 yr old Celso Borges spent 4 seasons (14/15 to 17/18) with Deportivo La Coruña in La Liga. So a tonne of experience against some of the super stars of world football at Barcelona, Real Madrid and the other big Spanish clubs. He's going to have plenty of experienced team mates all around him, who have been there done that through this Golden Generation for CR. Man for man, they will likely be more skillful & technical than us. Certainly a shark load more experienced, especially, especially in midfield.

But our wingbacks (certainly Cacace) look maybe better than theirs. Their likely LB 32 yr old Oviedo, didn't play 1 game for FC Copenhagen this season. And sounds like they are still unsure who their RB will be.

Again we need to start the game very safe defensively, use our wingbacks to attack, but also bring Wood into the game more. Use his great hold up play, like he does in the EPL week in week out. Hopefully he will be sharper, better for the outing against Peru. He barely played the last month in the EPL for Newcastle. Peru was his first start since Man City 8th May, and after that just 20 mins against Burnley.

Then maybe be brave in the 2nd half and look to change the shape, go more attacking, lift the pace as some of their older & slower players hopefully (hopefully) start to fatigue. We don't want it going to pens.

PS. Japan (WR 23) ain't better than Peru (WR 22). FIFA has them as par as you can get, and I agree. Peru are a bloody good, well drilled side. It was the perfect hit out against them.

Just on the Japan/Peru thing - I think the consensus would be that Japan certainly has the more talented players, but Gareca is a monster of a coach who has got absolutely everything he can out of this Peru squad. Reckon they're about even as you say

So... after our two warm up games are we feeling more or less confident?

I honestly don't know how to feel, way to nervous even this far out!

MetalLegNZ

So... after our two warm up games are we feeling more or less confident?

I honestly don't know how to feel, way to nervous even this far out!

Confidence was way up after Peru, it’s been tempered following 0-0 vs Oman.

Well Garbett, Cacace and Lewis were our main attacking threats against Peru? 
Hard to know how the creative player ms played against Oman. 

Our defence isnt really a concern, but the lack of shots and goals is causing me stress. I dont mind if we win 1-0 in extra time but after 180 mins of footy we've not taken any opportunities.

Dbl posted for some reason…

Wrong thread see Oman thread for interview with Hay post Oman game.

The lineup put out next Wednesday morning will play the game of their lives, stepping up on the big occasion and doing everything they can to get the result - which will go in our favour.

Feel free to mock me if that doesn't happen, but for now that is my prediction.

Okay potential team if we keep 3 at the back:
                   Wood
                           Rojas
                  Garbett 
     Libby       Bell Lewis       Niko
             Pijnaker Reid  Tuiloma 
                         
Rojas with kind of a free role I guess, not knowing how he played last night. Interesting points will be Lewis and Pijnaker. I think the rest is relatively uncontroversial. However Hay said he sees Marco as a midfielder, so it seems unlikely we’ll have him and Garbett, which is perhaps unfortunate with Singh out. 

This our current strongest 11? 

Haven’t named a keeper as if Marinovic plays in goal then Sail either plays up front or as a regista behind Bell Garbett.