All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams

World Cup Media Angst

609 replies · 23,263 views

almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I like Craig's reporting, it's just he doesn't seem to know a huge amount of football or show too much insight. But to be fair, neither do the majority of his audience so i'd say he's got it right.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Smithy wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

And I still honestly don't believe I qualify for being called "f**ked in the head"!

Well I guess you could say I'm simply expressing an opinion.

Yeah, you could. An opinion that is borderline in breach of your own forum rules. But then you're a moderator so you don't need to worry about that stuff.

Just for the record does Hepatitis now also qualify for being "f**ked in the head"?

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

So you haven't been there?

Then im taking Stanaways opinion that it is a dangerous place,since,you know,he is actually there and experiencing it. As well as the crime statistics etc etc

Having said that,Stanaway has come across as a bit of an arrogant guy on here,criticising Gourdies lack of commitment to football coverage when he has been the only one to cover football before the world cup,and TV1 has been the ones that have been missing.

Then criticising us who post on here,and say that is why he doesnt bother coming on here because we are all such idiots (terrible paraphrasing)

Allegedly

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I will wait till the end of the world cup to judge stanaway's perfromance, I have a wee bet though with a mate, about what he will say in tonight's report on tvnz news, on the eve of the world cup. brettdale2010-06-11 18:14:26

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

damn, its almost like because the story was done in SA it has to be about race...

if the exact same thing happened in a country with a poor white neighbourhood would it still be an issue of race?

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

It would be racist because it would show whites in a bad light.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

brettdale wrote:

I will wait till the end of the world cup to judge stanaway's perfromance, I have a wee bet thought with a mate, about what he will say in tonight's report on tvnz news, on the eve of the world cup.

Excellent amount of coverage on tvnz tonight, well done Mr Stanaway, I hope this is a sign of the coverage to come.

Excuse me now, while I adjust my tinfoil hat.

Thank you Mr Craig Stanaway, you just won me my bet with my mate.

I bet him, that during your report on Friday Night's news on the eve of the football world cup, there would be a rugby reference in your story and low and behold there was.

Now Im going to put the money on Rory Fallon being our top scorer, thanks again, Craig! If I win that bet on the tab, I'll buy you a beer if our paths ever cross.

brettdale2010-06-11 18:48:08

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Oceanic6 wrote:

darkhorse wrote:

Was there TV coverage on TV1 or TV3 for Steve Sumner's Order of Merit Award??

Don't think so, nor did Prime. I did hear it on Radio Sport though.

Craig is there a story coming?

Oh and please more shots of Mossy preferably without his shirt on, Thanks

there was a small item on the midday news on Sumners order of merit Showed the medal too. very shiney.

There was a piece on the news tonight, well done Steve

.. it couldnt have happened to a nicer person who has done a huge amount for football in NZ .... and you seemed to be mixing with the glitterati very well!!!

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Smithy wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

Smithy wrote:

If you think that was poor journalism you are f**ked in the head.

I think you are the racist. You saw Craig saying "there's a lot of people here and I feel unsafe" and what you heard was "there are a lot of BLACK people here and I feel unsafe" which is not what he said at all.

Summary: you are probably f**ked in the head.

The only support you can find for your view that Craig's piece was in any way inappropriate is three talking heads on Deaker on Sport, hardly a paragon of investigative intellectual journalism.

Smithy - those three "talking heads" (who happen to be media colleagues of Craig Stanaway) and I are simply expressing an opinion.

I can understand that as someone who quite obviously enjoys the doting patronage of the media through his association with YF it makes you uncomfortable to see those same journalists being subjected to any objective critique of their work.

I think you need to decide, however, whether that really excuses you from dismissing someone presenting another point of view to yours as being "f**ked in head".

By the way, if you really want to explore the issues around black representation in the media (or in fact any minorities - god knows muslims put up with enough sh*t) then just do a google search on those words. You will get literally thousands of hits, expressing opinions from every possible point of view. You can work out for yourself where you stand but please, at least acknowledge there is plenty of room for debate.

The doting patronage lavished on me by the media is not relevant. I don't need an excuse to call you f**ked in the head. Accusing someone of racism is not something you should do lightly, and certainly not from such a bollocks stand point as yours.

Your critique might be objective, but it is also misguided, uninformed, and ill considered.

You are now trying to sidestep the fact that you've been comprehensively shot down by broadening the debate to the representation of black minorities in the media.

Just give it away. You should realise you're pissing into a strong breeze when liberal folks like Buckle and I are telling you to pull your head in.

Not sure it's that cut and dried Smithy - I watched that article with an element of uncomfortability. I'm not sure that it's a "racist" piece specifically, but what did that piece actually say to anyone watching other than white man with camera draws a crowd in black area, white man becomes uncomfortable and leaves = this is the real Sth Africa. Is this an article about Sth Africa, or about Craig Stanaway? If craig is really determined to find the "real sth africa" I'd hope he continues to venture off the beaten track and explores (like many, many print journos have been doing e.g. this piece from the Times)

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/international/article2550359.ece

I'd also point out that Terminator X's three taling heads are three more than you've identified...unless you're counting yourself and Marius...

Also, accusing terminator_x of being racist, which you've done, is not really on.

Normo's coming home

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Doloras wrote:

Leggy wrote:

I am sure that some do exaggerate, but you do not know what you are talking about.

Well, let's put it this way - I'm not denying that there's a lot of violent crime in SA. There will be a lot of violent crime in any country where there are great disparities in income (cf USA). But the issue is, was crime really that much lower under apartheid? Or was it just that when the police were all white, and answered to an all-white government, the white population slept more soundly in their beds? As I'm not from SA, perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about, but these guys do.

As to ahmad: I don't know what things are like in Dunedin, but there are many parts of Auckland which are not "nice and safe".

The article had a lot of truth. I am not suggesting that there was no crime in the apartheid era. There has alway been a high crime rate in the surrounding city areas. The police force in those days was made up mainly of African with white officers.
The problem is that unemployment is now at over 40%, which is a lot higher than it was.The population has soared.Corruption is rife.There are many tribes in SA, and the only common language is English or Afrikaans. They have been killing each other for hundreds of years.There is high poverty. One could go on and on.
I am hoping like hell that SA get through to the next round. At least the people will have some joy then.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Footpaul wrote:

Doloras wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

It's just that I am already getting sick of the almost constant and complete presentation by the media of South Africa, and particularly black South Africa, as nothing more than a dangerous place full of criminals.

I think the tone for this is set by the thousands of white SA expats in New Zealand, who deliberately exaggerate these stories of "out of control crime" because it sounds better than "I didn't want to live in a country run by blacks". And this narrative is gradually seeping into mainstream Pakeha discourse, unfortunately.

To be fair to a lot of those who have fled South Africa, many experienced some horrific things that most New Zealanders cannot imagine. On the other hand, many who immigrated are straight up racist. I had a lot of SA friends when I lived on the North Shore and some were disgustingly racist but many were very liberal tolerant people, despite seeing traumatic things. I don't think many of us can appreciate that.I think while it is fair to criticise the media if football coverage is lacking, give credit when it is due. Both channels have upped their games, as have the newspapers. They really have to be all over the world cup because the interest is so high. But while games aren't being played, reporters have to come up with related stories, such as Stanaway's the other night.Reporters work very hard for very little credit!

I agree with that. In my experience, South Africans have this two-face side to them, but really for them it's just words and not actually their real intention to do harm or to down sized anyone. They are just straight up talkers but they are willing to help people just like anyone else. It's a cultural difference I think. Unless someone can enlighten me more with some new information that might say otherwise.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

james dean wrote:

Smithy wrote:

terminator_x wrote:

Smithy wrote:

If you think that was poor journalism you are f**ked in the head.

ï¿½

I think you are the racist.ï¿½ You saw Craig saying "there's a lot of people here and I feel unsafe" and what you heard was "there are a lot of BLACK people here and I feel unsafe" which is not what he said at all.ï¿½

ï¿½

Summary: you are probably f**ked in the head.

ï¿½

The only support you can find for your view that Craig's piece was in any way inappropriate is three talking heads on Deaker on Sport, hardly a paragon of investigative intellectual journalism.

ï¿½

Smithy - those three "talking heads" (who happen to be media colleagues of Craig Stanaway) and I are simply expressing an opinion.

ï¿½

I think you need to decide, however, whether that really excuses you from dismissing someone presenting another point of view to yours as being "f**ked in head".

ï¿½

By the way, if you really want to explore the issues around black representation in the media (or in fact any minorities - god knows muslims put up with enough sh*t) then just do a google search on those words. You will get literally thousands of hits, expressingï¿½opinions from every possible point of view. You can work out for yourself where you stand but please, at least acknowledge there is plenty of room for debate.

ï¿½

The doting patronage lavished on me by the media is not relevant.ï¿½ I don't need an excuse to call you f**ked in the head.ï¿½ Accusing someone of racism is not something you should do lightly, and certainly not from such a bollocks stand point as yours.

ï¿½

Your critique might be objective, but it is also misguided, uninformed, and ill considered.ï¿½

ï¿½

You are now trying to sidestep the fact that you've been comprehensively shot down by broadening the debate to the representation of black minorities in the media.ï¿½

ï¿½

Just give it away.ï¿½ You should realise you're pissing into a strong breeze when liberal folks like Buckle and I are telling you to pull your head in.

ï¿½

Not sure it's that cut and dried Smithy - I watched that article with an element of uncomfortability.ï¿½ I'm not sure that it's a "racist" piece specifically, but what did that piece actually say to anyone watching other than white man with camera draws a crowd in black area, white man becomes uncomfortable and leaves = this is the real Sth Africa.ï¿½ Is this an article about Sth Africa, or about Craig Stanaway?ï¿½ If craig is really determined to find the "real sth africa" I'd hope he continues to venture off the beaten track and explores (like many, many print journos have been doing e.g. this piece from the Times)

ï¿½

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/international/article2550359.ece

ï¿½

I'd also point out that Terminator X's three taling heads are three more than you've identified...unless you're counting yourself and Marius...

ï¿½

Also, accusing terminator_x of being racist, which you've done, is not really on.

I agree.

Smithy, Terminator_x does have a point. It was not that Craig Stanaway is racist (he is not, of course) but he is just like many other people who call things as they see it but the problem is that there is a fair bit of naive thinking rather than real horrible intent behind it. Most of the public wouldn't notice it but the minority so notice it. T_x was just pointing out something that we all are not so mindful or sensitive about thing simply because we live in different parts of the world and so it is not in the frontmost in our minds. No malice involved at all, just some ignorance. South Africa is a polarised place and it is easy to fall into stereotypes unintentionally.

Anyway, settle down boys and be glad that we have media people that is willing to get out to this forum and be upfront about things. I would welcome Craig Stanaway contribution here in the future and would not be put off. His hard work is appreciated and with hard work, there is going to be plenty of untidy stuff that we don't see.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I think the name calling in this thread is a bit pathetic.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

did anyone watch crowd goes wild tonight? Whose butt was it? looked like Killen's to me, even though he claims he's tanned!!. was a funny piece.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Tegal wrote:

So you haven't been there?

Then im taking Stanaways opinion that it is a dangerous place,since,you know,he is actually there and experiencing it. As well as the crime statistics etc etc

Tegal, I don't see how it's relevant whether I've been there (I haven't).

My complaint is that Stanaway's piece lacked balance and was biased towards the kind of negative stereotyping of blacks, and black South African townships specifically, that is far too common in the Western media.

Try this. Watch the scenes in Daveyton with the sound off. It's difficult when you already know what he says but ask yourself whether the footage itself presents anything like the picture Stanaway is describing. I don't think it does. Is it possible that what he is actually reporting is his own pre-conceived notions of what a black township is like, rather than what is actually there right in front of his face?

Yes, the crime rate in South Africa is terrible. But that doesn't mean it is everywhere, all the time and that every black township is riot waiting to happen, as Stanaway would have us believe.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I have to watch the piece again, i persume he was doing the piece on that city because it did have a high crime rate.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

TVNZ have had $100k equipment stolen whilst they were out having dinner. someone jemmied their room door open and it was gone.

Not good.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/tvnz-victim-100-000-world-cup-theft-3585208
Oceanic62010-06-13 14:08:05

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

...but slightly amusing based on some of the opinions in this thread.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

brettdale wrote:

I have to watch the piece again, i persume he was doing the piece on that city because it did have a high crime rate.

The main reason seemed to be that the opportunity presented itself with the All Whites training in Daveyton being delayed. That may have been part of the problem because it seemed that very little thought or research had gone into it. The biggest irony was that according to Stanaway's voiceover the police actually wanted to show them around to demonstrate how safe the town is!

I think that part of the reason some people are struggling to see any element of racism in the piece (and are probably thinking that this is just a load of PC nonsense) is that it is so consistent with the sort of biased, one-dimensional stories about Africa that we are used to seeing in the Western media - stories that typically marginalise and demonise Africa and Africans.

For another perspective on that scan some of these (even just reading the conclusions is interesting):

Images of Africa in the Western Media
The Western Media and It's Exploitation of Africa
Western Media and Africa: Balanced Reporting?
Western Media Reporting On Africa Rooted in Colonial Times
Africa in the Western Media

Now I'm not pretending that these articles present the "right" view, or a definitive view but they definitely present a different point of view about the images of Africa that we are largely presented with here in the West.

I'd challenge anyone who reads the above articles and then reviews Stanaway's piece to not at least see the possibility of a different point of view.

terminator_x2010-06-13 15:19:26

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Oceanic6 wrote:

Can't wait to see how TVNZ report that one tonight!

I suspect they won't take the angle: Karma visits Western media outlets who have been demonising Africans for years. TVNZ prompted to apologise to people of Daveyton for unnecessarily negative and racist story denigrating their town - "if we promise to never do it again can we please have our gear back?"!

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

"all of a sudden, in my posh hotel I felt uncomfortable."

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Oceanic6 wrote:

f**k yeah, South Africa all up in their grills.

Not surprised at all.

We will never fully decide who has won the football.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Excepting wall to wall coverage of all whites, tonight and tomorrow.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

More brilliant Chris Rat Poo logic: Ivan hasn't had a run at centre-mid in the warmup games, so it's a disastrous piece of last-gasp gambling which shows that we don't have a clue. Sack Ricki.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Does he not realise Ivan spent most of his career playing as a holding midfielder at Roda?

Three for me, and two for them.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Any question related to football which begins "Does Chris Rattue not realise..." can be safely answered "No".

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Junior82 wrote:

"all of a sudden, in my posh hotel I felt uncomfortable."

Actually the hotel didn't look posh at all, and she (Donna Marie Leaver (?)) said she actually felt quite safe...which seemed a strange response given that they were just robbed...!

"You can never get a bloody tradesman at Easter, it's a wonder Jesus got crucified" - Karl Pilkington

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Doloras wrote:

More brilliant Chris Rat Poo logic: Ivan hasn't had a run at centre-mid in the warmup games, so it's a disastrous piece of last-gasp gambling which shows that we don't have a clue. Sack Ricki.

but he did! The Chile game right?

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Sack Rattue.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Azevo wrote:

[QUOTE=Oceanic6] TVNZ have had $100k equipment stolen whilst they were out having dinner. someone jemmied their room door open and it was gone.

Not good.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/tvnz-victim-100-000-world-cup-theft-3585208

Have they looked in Gourdeys room for the stuff?....Go TV3!!!!!!!!

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10651478

Nice editorial.

Notice today the paper has a story about how the All Blacks will be wearing white at training and tialata is tweeting them. ok good solidarity, but inconsistent. Waiting for Andy Haden or his mates to come out with no-one watches poof ball.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

martinb wrote:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10651478

Nice editorial.

Its more of a marketing thing for the all blacks, i think.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

brettdale wrote:

martinb wrote:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10651478

Nice editorial.

Its more of a marketing thing for the all blacks, i think.

Honestly, I think this is great that the AB's / Warriors are getting behind the AW's.

They're a bit up against it with some of you guys. They do something & people say they're using it for their own marketing / riding the bandwagon. Don't do anything & everyone says they're up themselves & think rugby/league is more important than the WC.

I read both articles and thought that both teams seemed pretty genuine in their support.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

hlmphil wrote:

They're a bit up against it with some of you guys. They do something & people say they're using it for their ownï¿½marketing / riding the bandwagon. Don't do anything & everyone says they're up themselves & think rugby/league is more important than the WC.

ï¿½

I read both articles and thought that both teams seemed pretty genuine in their support.

Agree - we always seem to find something to complain about.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

hlmphil wrote:

brettdale wrote:

martinb wrote:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10651478

Nice editorial.

Its more of a marketing thing for the all blacks, i think.

Honestly, I think this is great that the AB's / Warriors are getting behind the AW's.

I read both articles and thought that both teams seemed pretty genuine in their support.

I beleive the warriors were genuine with their support, and the all blacks werent.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The All Blacks are wearing white customised training jerseys today and then are auctioning them off for charity... where is the not geunine part?

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Anyone hear Brendon Telfer' show this morning he got a text complaining that he will only do about twenty minutes devoted to the football.

Telfer went on to say in his 30 year career he has always hated preview shows about sports, and have hardly done them in hism career.

His reasoning was, that nothing has happen, that is why he wont spend a lot of time talking about an event that hasnt happen yet.

He said it will be the same before the rugby world cup final, he ended up my saying he doesnt like doing preview shows.

They had an commerical, then when he came back, he had some netball chick on, doing a preview for the weekends netball.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

bopman wrote:

The All Blacks are wearing white customised training jerseys today and then are auctioning them off for charity... where is the not geunine part?

They are doing to keep in the spot light. The charity they are doing it for is their own offical charity, which gives shoes and all black merchandise to poor kids.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Heres hoping tvnz and tv3 do a good job tonight.

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almost 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

brettdale wrote:

bopman wrote:

The All Blacks are wearing white customised training jerseys today and then are auctioning them off for charity... where is the not geunine part?

They are doing to keep in the spot light. The charity they are doing it for is their own offical charity, which gives shoes and all black merchandise to poor kids.

Get over yourself.

E + R + O

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