ASB Youth League 2014

So Waitak look decent this year...

Nothing against Ellerslie or you.

Just the company you seem to liase with on this forum sometimes....

As Ive said before the guys a total cock (His words not mine before the hypocrits start banning again) 

Were as you seem like a decent fella who can have a bit a banter 

As for ACFC/Nix thing I've no interest in either team so no problem there either

lol guilty by association - it's not often Vader and I agree on things - so not sure can consider us "forum buddies" but if he comes up with a gem I can respect that.

Anyway moving on - Yes - Waitak do look good this year.  I have to wonder how much the ACFC policy of not taking 94's in their squad is hurting them and helping United and Waitak.

The chat in this thread just highlights how meaningless this league is.

You mean the whole summer league as a whole??

A league that 2 of the teams in it cant win it? One an U20 team with no registered players who get points from a team that beat them that didnt have a player fully registered, Or a reserve team who no one wanted to coach and who treat the league as a play thing for themselves and there opponents get a say in who plays for them......

Where's the problem????

interesting point - i recently asked the Auckland City twitter man to confirm a starting lineup for a ACFC Youth game (live updates were being done) and was told they didn't have that information.  I think crowds and general interest for this league will be lowish (just like NRFL reserves compared to first team) but for people with a vested interest (ie clubs with players ONLY in youth league squads) it would be nice to see some good comms/promotion.  It dosn't bode well for someone like Auckland United either when their promotion of their side is woeful.

Dont think Auck United are going to do much, ACFC only got themselves to blame really maybe it is that they went for younger players or maybe that they changed a coach that lost 1 game in 3 years???

Still plenty of time for ACFC to climb the ladder. I think it's clear that some teams are in this to develop players, others to win the league.

Clearly you havent seen them play yet??

Last 3 years ACFC managed to do both.

But your comment does beg the question, Can you not develop players and win at the same time?

If not why bother developing players than arent winning?  

Well obviously you can.

Not shite. Actually of a reasonable standard. It just has no point. It's a sort of half way house for kids that aren't likely to make the next national squad in their age group, and aren't good enough to play ASBP, and aren't really going anywhere. Then they play in this league for a short number of games...not enough to be meaningful in terms of development or genuine competition. Nobody of significance goes to watch on a consistent basis, so it's not a scouting mechanism. It's just pointless.

Literally the only people who care are the parents of kids playing.

I haven't really thought about a better alternative. I'm not sure we need to do anything to be fair. But maybe we do. In deciding what that thing is, it would be useful to know what the point is SUPPOSED to be? 

Once upon a time this league was to identify future U20s and U17s players. But now it isn't used like that. It has been superceded by whatever the Wanderers is. So what's it there for? Evidence would suggest there is zero percent chance of leapfrogging into the national team from the youth league.

I don't think it's a good use of resources.

I believe Ole and APFA both discourage kids from bothering with it. And I can't think of a good argument against that policy.

Chris not re-appointed I believe he was keen to continue

Yeah totally pointless league its not like any players who have played in it have gone anywhere is it....

Dylan Burns, Conor Tracey, Oli Sail, Matt Ridenton, Bill Tuiloma to name but a few who have never progressed there careers since playing in it

There are always going to be people that progress because of laws of averages. You've pulled out 5 names... out of how many.... 

Would they have progressed with out it? Most likely.

Ok well that's dumb of them

Yeah great point you're completely right, without the "national" youth league those players would certainly never have played beyond social football.

Cheers for deconstructing my argument so thoroughly.

Yeah sorry my bad law of averages it is then lets just scrap every comp that someone doesnt like.

Its not like any other league around the world has a youth comp is there.

As for only 5 names i'm sure there's a lot more out there that have gone to bigger and better things whether thats because of this league rather than inspite of it only Vader of course will know the exact answer to that.

Do we not need kids playing as much football as possible? Is it not NZFs job to provide avenues for them to do so which they are doing with this  league

Guess you guys would not support that as it would threaten your little monopoly.

Aha. A good question.

If we want more football for these kids, and that's the goal, then there'll be better (cheaper, more games) ways to structure the league.

My point (if you'd bothered to think about it) is that the league at the moment doesn't do anything well. If we need something for this group (I'm not convinced we do) then let's figure out what we're trying to do and structure a competition accordingly.

The current league is short, full of mostly second tier players, and nobody scouts from it. So what is the point?

You guys?

So it is not the job of NZF to provide opportunities for people to play football in NZ and regulate and facilitate that process?

So who's job is that then? 

Its a youth league of course there are going to be 2nd tier players in it! As there are in any league around the world, Vince Lia anybody..... Reira etc far better players than him but he still plays in same league not every player is of same abilty 

What things arent they doing well? 

How do you do it cheaper? Go back to North and South groups? Still expensive for the South Group and joke travel arrangements in North section.

Can they play more games in summer for the franchises? Probably not with Napier, School and club commitments the ASB Prem struggles to fit in 16 games  And if they did play more games doesnt that increase the cost?

Are crowds revelevant at youth level? 

The scouting point is a good one is it because the respective age group coaches are coaching during the season so cant watch games or have they already picked most players based on winter club/school form and training camps

Auckland City 1 (Thomas Konusi 42') Auckland United 2 (Wiaswayot Kochasira 62' 64') 

Nelson Yute beat a really really underwhelming Wanderers side by some goals etc

Hello there,

If we accept the proposition that there is a wider good for the code of making it mandatory under regulations to include a quota of youth players in ASB premiership squads, would it not also make sense to extend that thinking to the Youth League?

How about if there was a requirement to include a certain number of U17s in the youth league teams when it is U19, or a smilar quota of U18s in the years when it is U20?

I've read elsewhere here views of some posters suggesting the youth league doesn't make sense when we already have a national youth squad selected for higher duty.

And I can see the argument for that point of view (even though I don't ultimately accept it myself).

I've watched a couple of Youth league matches this season and been slightly disappointed that "my" team has fielded guys who i don't believe will ever play a meaningful role at national league level - while a clutch of encouragingly talented 16-year-olds I've been really keen to see in action struggle to get much game time.

I accept it is the coach's role to field the strongest possible team under the rules, but do wonder if the youth league might be an even MORE important place to acknowldedge the "development" role of national competition than the premiership by tweaking those same rules.

My argument is that if if a "youth" component is good enough for the premiership regs - it would be incongruous not to also demand a parallel in the Youth League itself.

However that's just me. Appreciate the thoughts of others.

The bit in bold is the key. 

Any players in Phoenix Reserves who will never play a meaningful role in the A-League??

Probably. But the bulk of them have a shot at it. 

Conversely, in the youth league, the majority of players are unlikely to play ASBP let alone anything higher.

Providing a national league for potential professionals to play in is one thing, providing a league for a minority of potential ASBP players to play in is extravagance in my view. They have perfectly good winter leagues to prove themselves in, and the best ones already get picked up straight into ASBP franchises. So there is no need for what the ASB Youth League is providing anymore.

Just out of curiosity though...

How many ASBP places are filled by import players currently ?

Youth League seems an ideal place for talented 15-17 y/o players to gain more game time and hopefully develop into senior franchise players. Too much $$$ at risk (i.e. FIFA Club World Cup) for the big boys to risk blooding that age-group in the ASBP competition on a regular basis.

Any results?

Waitakere 2-1 over Wanderers

Hawke's Bay upset Nelson Falcons 3-1

Waitak won 3-1 after being down 1-0. 1 goal straight from corner and two penalties, with the first one being very, very questionable.

I also think City won 2-1(?) over Canterbury and Southern drew 1-1 I believe

Canty Youth lost 3-1 to Auckland today.

Just looking quickly at the local game from Saturday I'd say not heaps. In the TeeDubs I think the left back Colligan is foreign, and Bechar, and Luis Corrales if you're being really picky (but he's been in the country for years).

I don't know the WaiBop players though.

A few good imports is important I think.

I like how they have two number 3s listed for Teedubs.

Cowen as CB. Clarke in goal. Robertson at RB. Fleming didn't play.