Am I alone in thinking that the Nix, as our only pro club, has to be better on issues like this than other teams? "He did it first / he did it worse" isn't an excuse we accept from 7 year olds, or at least I don't
Are you aware who Williams was and what he did?
Using whataboutisms isn't really helpful here - try keep to the topic of the player and the situation at hand.
Its more that Whataboutisms, he destroyed the lives of many young boys over 3 decades and many are still suffering today.
Am I alone in thinking that the Nix, as our only pro club, has to be better on issues like this than other teams? "He did it first / he did it worse" isn't an excuse we accept from 7 year olds, or at least I don't
Are you aware who Williams was and what he did?
Using whataboutisms isn't really helpful here - try keep to the topic of the player and the situation at hand.
Its more that Whataboutisms, he destroyed the lives of many young boys over 3 decades and many are still suffering today.
I agree that is absolutely horrific... people like that have no place on this earth, let alone in football... i am just not sure how it relates to what is being discussed here, apart from having a go at Petone as a club and making them look like monsters because they put a complaint in that, to be fair, every club would have done. But that doesn't change what was said... on a football pitch with a player representing a professional football team that is seen as the pinnacle of our game in NZ. I do agree that the kid shouldn't be ostracised for life, he will get second chances... in the heat of the moment silly things get said to attack someone because they know that is going to hurt them, or rark them up... and reality is he is most likely not a homophobe at all... it's just used to rip someone (who more than likely isn't gay). a step way too far, absolutely. Probably better off two footing the other player and getting a suspension, but I am sure he has a learnt a big lesson... as long as it isn't a consistent thing in his character and he isn't a dickhead at heart.....
(This is coming from someone who despises the Phoenix and believes it has harmed the local game with it's arrogance, taking clubs apart as they move in and leave them in tatters as they leave them WU and Lower Hutt are testament to this)
Wait, I just realised what is being said here. That because a Petone coach was a child molester, Finn Conchie has a free pass to call Petone players f*gs or whatever. That somehow manages to be double homophobic.
Not sure if Olympic has ever shown up to a club, taken it over and then left it for dead? not sure if Olympic as ever gone after all the Junior clubs who have invested in TDP to provide kids pathways so they take revenue and funding money away from big established junior clubs.... but hey, would love your take on how Olympic has harmed the local game. Also taking part of the quote, without full context. nice.Doloras
" This is coming from someone who despises the Phoenix and believes it has harmed the local game with it's arrogance "
Wow, blast from the past, now it's the Wellington Olympic Knitting Circle
I am merely pointing out, for the old-timers, that the argument that the Phoenix actively harms community football is the same that used to be made by the disgruntled Auckland City FC fans whom we used to call the "Knitting Circle".
I'm a Phoenix fan and this is a Phoenix forum but that doesn't mean they are above reproach either. I am in agreement with Olympic07 that the Nix have not done themselves any favours with how they have treated the local footballing community in Wellington. After going in and leaving Wellington United to pick up the pieces, I don't know if Lower Hutt will feel like they benefited much from being the Nix feeder club to get into National League. Though Lower Hutt was in a poor state anyway with loss of poker money from their pub owning committee member and the loss of Bell Park.
Lower Hutt have been decimated. They are now on their own, living in capital premier, where they are close to relegation after the Phoenix took their spot in central league. Pokie money will always be available when you have a base as big as Lower Hutt. Going a bit off topic from the original discussion, sorry. But losing clubs like Wellington United and Lower Hutt from the league is sad for Wellington football. These clubs have been around in different interations (Zelandia, Hungaria, Wellington city, diamonds etc and railways then Lower Hutt) for well before the Phoenix came into existence and will outlast the Phoenix. In the end we play our game and support our teams because of the history and what they do for our community. I just feel the Phoenix take advantage of the community and clubs here, until they are no longer useful.
Holy shark missed this saga. Defo not a football culture issue so much as a general culture issue.
Good on the kid for owning it. Take the time on the side to train up and learn from the mistake and he can come back stronger and better. Crossed fingers.
God damn I hope the next generation of kids gets rid of this shark.
Lower Hutt have been decimated. They are now on their own, living in capital premier, where they are close to relegation after the Phoenix took their spot in central league. Pokie money will always be available when you have a base as big as Lower Hutt. Going a bit off topic from the original discussion, sorry. But losing clubs like Wellington United and Lower Hutt from the league is sad for Wellington football. These clubs have been around in different interations (Zelandia, Hungaria, Wellington city, diamonds etc and railways then Lower Hutt) for well before the Phoenix came into existence and will outlast the Phoenix. In the end we play our game and support our teams because of the history and what they do for our community. I just feel the Phoenix take advantage of the community and clubs here, until they are no longer useful.
That's probably the story of professional sports everywhere to be fair.
Not sure if Olympic has ever shown up to a club, taken it over and then left it for dead? not sure if Olympic as ever gone after all the Junior clubs who have invested in TDP to provide kids pathways so they take revenue and funding money away from big established junior clubs.... but hey, would love your take on how Olympic has harmed the local game. Also taking part of the quote, without full context. nice.Doloras
" This is coming from someone who despises the Phoenix and believes it has harmed the local game with it's arrogance "
Wow, blast from the past, now it's the Wellington Olympic Knitting Circle
I dunno - but constantly flouting player payment rules and dishing out brown paper bags to get all the best players in Wellington probably hasn't helped the local game. Torn about that though as it's also good to finally see a local team competing against the likes of Auckland City etc.
Not sure if Olympic has ever shown up to a club, taken it over and then left it for dead? not sure if Olympic as ever gone after all the Junior clubs who have invested in TDP to provide kids pathways so they take revenue and funding money away from big established junior clubs.... but hey, would love your take on how Olympic has harmed the local game. Also taking part of the quote, without full context. nice.Doloras
" This is coming from someone who despises the Phoenix and believes it has harmed the local game with it's arrogance "
Wow, blast from the past, now it's the Wellington Olympic Knitting Circle
I dunno - but constantly flouting player payment rules and dishing out brown paper bags to get all the best players in Wellington probably hasn't helped the local game. Torn about that though as it's also good to finally see a local team competing against the likes of Auckland City etc.
Not sure there are that many left still on big bucks at Olympic. Once TDubz finished up they didn’t have to lure players away from Miramar with the promise of big dollars. Sube take what I say with a grain of salt though because I personally became a fan of Olympic when I was looking to fill the handy prem void.
Lower Hutt have been decimated. They are now on their own, living in capital premier, where they are close to relegation after the Phoenix took their spot in central league. Pokie money will always be available when you have a base as big as Lower Hutt. Going a bit off topic from the original discussion, sorry. But losing clubs like Wellington United and Lower Hutt from the league is sad for Wellington football. These clubs have been around in different interations (Zelandia, Hungaria, Wellington city, diamonds etc and railways then Lower Hutt) for well before the Phoenix came into existence and will outlast the Phoenix. In the end we play our game and support our teams because of the history and what they do for our community. I just feel the Phoenix take advantage of the community and clubs here, until they are no longer useful.
Don't totally disagree as I really believe that the Nix could do so much more in the Club space. What they don't seem to get is that by alienating the Clubs they are alienating a vast swathe of their potential support base. If the Nix were more approachable, consultative and humble I really do believe that most clubs would really like to get in behind them as the only pro club in NZ. Capital Football/NZF as the guardians of the game in Wellington have not helped with side deals with the Nix and the Nix flouting the rules of local competitions has not helped. If the Nix had any sense, they would go cap in hand to the Clubs and begin dialogue about how they can all co-exist harmoniously as if ever there was a time for a reset in the Club it is now given some of the most recent developments. That said, Wellington United and Lower Hutt were both in desperate need of a lifeline which the Nix provided. Instead of apportioning all the blame on the Nix for decimating these clubs, perhaps the executives of these Clubs should also be responsible for letting both clubs get to the state where they needed to partner with the Nix. Too many Clubs in Wellington but that is a subject for another day.......
I always love this comment... it's as if Olympic is the only club in Wellington or in New Zealand who has ever paid for players. When others have done it, it has been said that the club's culture and pedigree is what has attracted them, or because they are "coaching" their massive junior base. But hey, perception is reality... it makes us sounds like a big heavy hitting powerhouse lol.
"That said, Wellington United and Lower Hutt were both in desperate need of a lifeline which the Nix provided. Instead of apportioning all the blame on the Nix for decimating these clubs, perhaps the executives of these Clubs should also be responsible for letting both clubs get to the state where they needed to partner with the Nix"
This is the part that a lot of people seem to be forgetting. when the nix first came along they had no academy, no youth team and no ability to develop their youth. so they approached Cap football to see if they could play a youth team in the league - declined. So thinking out of the box they joined forces with clubs who were struggling which allowed their younger players time on the field whilst helping clubs out of the financial sharkpile. Yes, when the contract was done and dusted the top players left with them. But that's not solely on the Nix, ht eplayers chose not to stay with the clubs that had been poart of the agreement. now that cap footy have allowed the Nix to field their own teams within the leagues it all balances out. Sure theres a few scars around the place, but you can't blame just the nix for trying to get their youth teams into the league. Blame capital footbal for being shortsighed and declining the request in the first place. Atribute some balme to the players who chased Central league gametime over loyalty to the club that brought them through the ranks.
That's fair, I agree Capital Football have absolutely played a part in this. This conversation can go on for months, depending on the club who has been affected and the point of view. For the Phoenix, having teams guaranteed in the top three leagues was a goal, they got it. Having the ability to go around and offer opportunities to young players to play for the "Phoenix" If they pay of course, means that, I am guessing, they could have pokie funding coming through (pure speculation) when you are a pro club. Lots of questions, lots of different answers. But getting your juniors ready for TDP is a massive investment for a club, time and money, or so I hear... I actually don't know. But Phoenix encroaching on junior football with clubs trying to focus on this development has left sour tastes in some clubs mouths.... and MoU's being signed between Capital football and Phoenix probably made it worse. But anyway, will be interesting to see how the Auckland franchise manages the situation with the Auckland clubs across the spectrum.
Also, don't see how you can blame players for leaving their clubs, when the phoenix move in and bring in their players (which they should do) there is no place for them anymore. The clubs selling their soul because they are struggling, sounds a bit predator like, don't you reckon. There is no lifeline really. With the phoenix in the top 3 grades, there is no need to worry about the senior football conversations anymore as they don't need a club to utilise. theprof
"That said, Wellington United and Lower Hutt were both in desperate need of a lifeline which the Nix provided. Instead of apportioning all the blame on the Nix for decimating these clubs, perhaps the executives of these Clubs should also be responsible for letting both clubs get to the state where they needed to partner with the Nix"
This is the part that a lot of people seem to be forgetting. when the nix first came along they had no academy, no youth team and no ability to develop their youth. so they approached Cap football to see if they could play a youth team in the league - declined. So thinking out of the box they joined forces with clubs who were struggling which allowed their younger players time on the field whilst helping clubs out of the financial sharkpile. Yes, when the contract was done and dusted the top players left with them. But that's not solely on the Nix, ht eplayers chose not to stay with the clubs that had been poart of the agreement. now that cap footy have allowed the Nix to field their own teams within the leagues it all balances out. Sure theres a few scars around the place, but you can't blame just the nix for trying to get their youth teams into the league. Blame capital footbal for being shortsighed and declining the request in the first place. Atribute some balme to the players who chased Central league gametime over loyalty to the club that brought them through the ranks.
Olympic are well known to be the Real Madrid of Wellington Football as are Auckland City the Barcelona of the north. Clubs around them are always going to struggle for ambition and stability because 1. they can't match what's on offer on and off the pitch and 2. Players (some) lose hope and give up due to the disparity. Someone mentions its about perception and they 100% correct - some will say good on Olympic because they lift the quality of football and set the bar for the region whereas some say paying over the 150 a week is unethical an against the rules. It is what it is. Its amatuer sport theres always going to be issues with it..always have been and always will be. Every now and then a club outside the big dogs will have a turn in the sun but will dissapear for a period of time. Those clubs like Lower Hutt will be back.
I wish the club did, life would be much easier… you’d have to ask the committee. But the truth the only reason the club keeps going is because of a handful of people who are involved at the time as caretakers and custodians, until a new generation takes over, mostly Greeks plus people who join the club and love the feeling and want to get involved. We have to be real, every dog has his day and for the last couple of years it has been with Olympic. But before that it was Miramar and Wests year in year out, they attracted all the best players. Swings and round abouts, but for I think we always have the ambition to be the best we can possibly be because it reflects on our community. It’s more than just a club, it’s our identity in NZ. Doloras
So what's Wellington Olympic's source of finance? I hope they don't have a "cozy relationship" with a pokies trust like ACFC
I dunno but $158k on coaches in one year seems an awful lot. Is this actually going to coaches, or this just disguised player payments?
Is this ACFC?
They got ~$600k from trullion last year, Central Utd got roughly $450k and the super city academy got ~$200k not a bad day at the races in terms of funding from a single source before you look at money from other trusts and sponsors.
All their payments are up in the Trullian website. If you want to know how much money your club is getting just search the monthly payments from the trusts that sponsor them. I haven’t found any clubs in Wellington that are getting consistent money like Auckland City are.
Likewise Eastern Suburbs rout their juniors to fund the men’s team and they also get a reasonable amount from Trullian as well.
I personally have a few reservations about taking pokey money. If you can’t have alcohol or tabaco sponsorship on the basis of societal harm surely gambling and pokies are on the same level.
^^^^ I'd have to agree with the last paragraph above. But replacing tobacco sponsorship took years and a big Government subsidy during the transition. I can't imagine either PM CHippy or Luxon will be very interested in that in an era of "bread and butter budgets"
^^^^ I'd have to agree with the last paragraph above. But replacing tobacco sponsorship took years and a big Government subsidy during the transition. I can't imagine either PM CHippy or Luxon will be very interested in that in an era of "bread and butter budgets"
Especially when they use lottery funding to prop up Sport NZ and HPSNZ to the tune of nearly $80 million a year!
I am guessing you are saying that Olympic received $158k for coaching? That doesn’t seem like a lot when some directors of football are on $80k + at other clubs alone? So $158k for all coaches in the club, over a 12 month period as we playing national league also. WallyWilliams
I dunno but $158k on coaches in one year seems an awful lot. Is this actually going to coaches, or this just disguised player payments?
Not wanting to relitigate the whole weenix conversation but Steve Coleman is a joke. I was stood pretty close to half way tonight and the weenix had two head injuries to players and an Olympic coach walks over to him and says they need to do something about it and they don’t even send on their physio.
Imagine paying $7k per year to have your kid treated as disposable because you wanted to beat an amateur team in a local league. Absolute joke.
Tremendous win(3-2) for Olympic after being down by 2 at half time.
Actually 2-1 at half time if Tribe is to be believed. Don’t care about the result myself, but slightly disappointing to see Weenix only used one sub - again if Tribe is to be believed. No issue with trying to win, but main focus for those boys should be player development. You don’t get a lot from 90 minutes on the bench.
The Academy account tweeted out that it was 2-0 at HT & that JHS scored in the 71st min, Watto in the 75th and Mata from the spot in the 90th. So Tribe must be wrong about that.
Apparently it was a younger than normal squad, with a few of the more senior players out. So might be why the lack of subs?
Watched North Wellington vs Whanganui on YouTube. What an exciting end to the match! Not much quality on show on the plastic pitch, but a thoroughly enjoyable chaotic last half hour.
The Academy account tweeted out that it was 2-0 at HT & that JHS scored in the 71st min, Watto in the 75th and Mata from the spot in the 90th. So Tribe must be wrong about that.
Apparently it was a younger than normal squad, with a few of the more senior players out. So might be why the lack of subs?
Tribe had Watson’s goal at 9 mins, but maybe an entry error.
The bench pretty much reflected starters age wise, a 17 year old Jesper Edwards, who is a solid lad, 3 18 year olds and Josh Rudland who is 19. And all of them can play. Hayden Thomas is of slight build, Ryan Watson is not tall, and Dan Makowem broke his ankle at Western Springs U17 but been back since April, so unless Olympic were being particularly nasty, I’d have still trusted them out there.
Edit to add: Weenix have in the past fielded sides in CL with _average_ age less than 18.
The Academy account tweeted out that it was 2-0 at HT & that JHS scored in the 71st min, Watto in the 75th and Mata from the spot in the 90th. So Tribe must be wrong about that.
Apparently it was a younger than normal squad, with a few of the more senior players out. So might be why the lack of subs?
Tribe had Watson’s goal at 9 mins, but maybe an entry error.
The bench pretty much reflected starters age wise, a 17 year old Jesper Edwards, who is a solid lad, 3 18 year olds and Josh Rudland who is 19. And all of them can play. Hayden Thomas is of slight build, Ryan Watson is not tall, and Dan Makowem broke his ankle at Western Springs U17 but been back since April, so unless Olympic were being particularly nasty, I’d have still trusted them out there.
Edit to add: Weenix have in the past fielded sides in CL with _average_ age less than 18.
While I don’t particularly like the Phoenix, their development side outperforms any of the A Leagues academy teams. I watch quite a bit of NPL in Australia and lots of the teams. Don’t even have players anywhere near the top leagues, let alone compete in them.
Given the national League finished in early December it would pretty cool to see an A League academy tournament to round out the calendar year.
The Academy account tweeted out that it was 2-0 at HT & that JHS scored in the 71st min, Watto in the 75th and Mata from the spot in the 90th. So Tribe must be wrong about that.
Apparently it was a younger than normal squad, with a few of the more senior players out. So might be why the lack of subs?
Tribe had Watson’s goal at 9 mins, but maybe an entry error.
The bench pretty much reflected starters age wise, a 17 year old Jesper Edwards, who is a solid lad, 3 18 year olds and Josh Rudland who is 19. And all of them can play. Hayden Thomas is of slight build, Ryan Watson is not tall, and Dan Makowem broke his ankle at Western Springs U17 but been back since April, so unless Olympic were being particularly nasty, I’d have still trusted them out there.
Edit to add: Weenix have in the past fielded sides in CL with _average_ age less than 18.
While I don’t particularly like the Phoenix, their development side outperforms any of the A Leagues academy teams. I watch quite a bit of NPL in Australia and lots of the teams. Don’t even have players anywhere near the top leagues, let alone compete in them.
Given the national League finished in early December it would pretty cool to see an A League academy tournament to round out the calendar year.
There were plans for exactly this last year (actually I think poss last 2 years) but cancelled due to ‘covid’ uncertainty and potential for disruption.
Watched North Wellington vs Whanganui on YouTube. What an exciting end to the match! Not much quality on show on the plastic pitch, but a thoroughly enjoyable chaotic last half hour.
The result has set up an interesting avoid relegation battle between those 2 teams for the remaining five games. Nw 4 points, Whanganui 3 points & a combined 1 point from the 24 fixtures (from 72 points!) with other teams. Both will be targeting their game with 8th place Stop Out who have dropped off as a top-4 prospect.
Incredible finish to match, one best away days I’ve been on in a long timeRusty Dunks
Watched North Wellington vs Whanganui on YouTube. What an exciting end to the match! Not much quality on show on the plastic pitch, but a thoroughly enjoyable chaotic last half hour.
In other news, and I’m not sure if it’s fully public, but there’s a move to re-install a second Central League from 2025.
Presume it aims to help the teams outside of Wellington/ Capital football. Maybe be costly for the big clubs who have second teams in Central League two.
I hate this idea. It use to be the case back in the early 2000s i think before the CL came back. It leads to some big spankings. You'll have WO reserve who are second in CP plaing against SO and NW reserves who are struggling to stay in Cap 1. That's of no value.
