Wouldn’t all applicants have already been given the metrics? That would be what each would base their applications on. What they should want to know is how they were marked on each of the metrics. coochiee
ballane
coochiee
Strictly speaking it's true as all the NZ talent going through the club, are yes OFC players. Bit of artistic licence. Certainly I don't think their community engagement is 'unrivalled'.
I mean CU appear to have done more n the last 12 months to foster links to the rest of the OFC, than the Nix have done in 17 years. For sure CU's motivation to do that clearly driven by the ambition to enter the OFC League. Still they have gone out and done the networking.
That article contains lots of info on why the Nix think they should be in the league. Fair enough they are hurting and disappointed, but it's sort of inward looking only.
Maybe having CU & AFC in the comp is just the best outcome for the OFC League itself, ie simply what's best for the new league, which is rightly what the selection committee would have been focussing on. The Sth Island being a region without pro football, new commercial opportunities blah blah. Auckland such a hub for the Pacific, OFC headquarters, blah blah.
Granted the OFC not sharing the club selection metrics, makes it hard for the Nix to see how they measured up against the successful bids.
A statement from the OFC that expansion after Season One will be considered, wouldn't be a bad thing. Though think I read somewhere the league will be capped at only 8 teams, for first couple of years??
Are you aware of the work the Phoenix do in the community they do a lot more and spend a lot more than most people are aware of. Its not in the media because most media have shown a complete disinterest in the story. As for the players yes a massive "artistic licence" by numbers of OFC players yes there have been a few. But im sure you are as aware as im am that when it comes to the Island nations players there have been very few.
Admit im a one eyed Phoenix fan but i just dont get how people can be okay with one A League club being given a chance while the other is shut out of any chance of getting to the CWC. Whats so wrong with the Phoenix or someone associated with them putting through some of the reasons they should have been included. Because they sure as hell stack up against any Auckland can provide. Then again i suppose having Billionaires on board counts for double points. Because it sure as hell cant have anything to do with their player development.
But it's not the job of the OFC (or the selection committee who chose the successful bids) to decide whatever is fair re qualification to the CWC.
Their job was to pick the entrants that they think are the best fit for this new OFC Pro League. That's their sole scope. So that's what they have supposedly done, for a league that is going to face alot of challenges to survive.
The CWC is basically a FIFA issue.
Now should OFC share the club selection measurement results with the Nix? Probably.
But then if the Nix get access to that info, do they then lawyer up as in their opinion the results say they should have been included?? The last thing OFC want is for all the goodwill about this new league, to be potentially derailed by a legal sideshow mess, that threatens to overshadow everything.
Edit: that was meant to be replying to the post above yours Martin.martinb
You missed Sotirio!
I don’t think the Nix could have utilised the Pacific islands much more. It’s the same for Kiwis overseas. No free passes. If you’re good enough and determined enough, we can help find a way.
Those other A league guys moved to Aussie or grew up there? Hall for example wanted/wants to play for Aussie right? Mitch Cooper was an Aussie underage international, yeh?
Let’s not forget- NZ is the biggest nation in the OFC. NZ qualifying for the 2010 WC came with the Phoenix coach and a lot of the players. The Ring of Fire popped because Wellington was the home of football. There’s no A FC without the Nix. Popularising and showing pro football is possible in NZ is important for Oceania.
And you’re spot on on Krishna. Best in the league. But it was still a jump to the A league.
So CU invite a couple of Vanuatu grandees for a walk around and have that’s considered more than employing and training Fiji’s captain for 4-5 seasons?
Jesus Christ.
And Auckland have done more by virtue of being in Auckland? They haven’t got an an academy. Oli and Michael Woud are their keepers.
By that logic I recall a couple of first elevens that recruited players from the Islands. Surely then they’ve done more than anyone and should be in the pro league by forum metrics?
Maybe Taika can have a team with Oscar Kightley because they made last goal wins?
And there’s a bunch of us still going OFC = the Pacific Islands.
It’s the whole confederation, including New Zealand. It’s not (just ) about promoting inclusion for the native people of the region. Perhaps there was more for that that could have been done, but to say that’s the reason for excluding the Phoenix from this, especially when the bulk of that responsibility falls in the confederation and national bodies, is weasely BS at best.
The Phoenix was the sole professional team and they were trying to stay above water. We’re still not making money. No thanks for pouring your fortunes into the OFC’s only professional team?
Just CU who have never kicked a professional ball or sustained a professional team are somehow clearly better for the OFC?
You’d think the OFC would want to utilise all its pro football talent and experience seeing as how short on the ground that is in the confederation, rather than bin it off for whatever reason.
I mean ffs, Logan Rogerson is a professional player who came through the Nix set up and was able to parley that into a career in Europe.
Now some half arsed ‘metrics’ count by forum members is crediting Auckland for his career.
Ggf. With all due love etc of course. But let’s stop doing the Nix contribution down. Especially for long time forum members. There’s plenty of one season football fans who don’t know any difference.
The percentage of Maori and Pasifika isn’t a metric and it’s a problematic one if you think it should be introduced. TAHW for example had a go and was eventually released. OPPORTUNITIES should be given, but the coach picks his or her team.
This is not something that should be a factor in OFC league football at this stage in this way. And we keep talking like it is when we have absolutely no idea what the criteria was that we’ve allegedly failed.
The percentage of Maori and Pasifika isn’t a metric and it’s a problematic one if you think it should be introduced. TAHW for example had a go and was eventually released. OPPORTUNITIES should be given, but the coach picks his or her team.
Don't think i've ever been in such agreement with you martin.
It seems like a f- you very much for money spent this far and please just keep it coming.
I hope there’s a lot of effort going into behind the scenes work convincing them to rethink the league so that 3 NZ teams can participate. It’s mental to include South Melbourne, but exclude the Nix.
The only other option is to go to court to push another NZ team out which seems suboptimal.
I have zero idea whether Lambert Maltock notices the Nix has a lack of Pasika players or even cares.
But again it’s probably not a bad idea for Nix to have a bit of a think about how they maybe perceived within OFC.
Fair enough they are asking for access to the assessment data as to why they missed out. But I really hope they don’t look to drag this into some sort of messy legal spat.
It’s a league administered by the OFC, they had a selection committee and that committee has made its decision. Presumably based on what they think is best for the league
I mean as you and others have said, it’s a courtesy to get to know about the country of the president and the other entrants, and to invite them to see your bid.
It’s not a silly thing to do.
But if the bid is that close that that action decides if your team is in or out, you need to expand the league, surely.
Conversely, we need to ask what France, the US and any other soccer powers with an interest in the region , perhaps say Australia, are doing to help prepare these less fortunate nations for professional football and to provide pathways.
It probably matters little to people outside NZ and the success or failure of the league if it’s CU or the Phoenix, but it’s a definite attack on the Nix and will/may make things more difficult for them. It might make the owners reconsider their generosity for starters, if all they get in return is a two fingered salute from the confederation.
Responding to Dome’s suggestion it was "nonsensical" for Christchurch United to have scored higher than them, Edwards was focused on the bigger picture.
“What we were told from the very outset was that this is not a league about New Zealand. It's a league for developing professional football in the islands and New Zealand just happens to be part of that process.
“This isn't about us. It's about what we can do in that space, hence our collaborations with Solomon Islands and the Vanuatu Federation as part of this process – we want to be genuinely helping the island communities.
“It is also about growing football in regions that don't have it. (The) 1.2 million population of the South Island doesn't have pro football, so, obviously, they are hitting their purpose for why they put this league in place by giving us a place.
“I saw in (the Phoenix’s statement last Friday) that they talked about what their club is and what they've provided.
“I'd say Slava has started his academy in 2014 and merged it with Christchurch United in 2016 and has spent 10 years slowly chipping away with a lot of investment. He’s built these amazing facilities. We have an academy from age four – soon to be from age two – all the way up to the senior first team.
“We've had a go at the women's game, and we are going to push into the women's game in the future, but we are a massive club with a full academy structure and we have a long history in the game.
“We put a very strong case together for our bid, so we are 100% there on merit.”
Some Stuff football comments in reaction to that article that actually for once, that are that rare thing in actually being quite sensible
KBJ20
It seems from the information in this article that Christchurch United focused on how they could help advance football in the South Island and the Pacific region, and the Phoenix focused on how they could use this as a way to get to the Club championship. It would seem that the OFC felt that the United approach was closer to what they envisaged.
sportsfannz
I agree with your comments. I believe that OFC have targeted the OPL as a means of improving quality across Oceania to try to get two qualifiers at future world cups not as a tournament for A-League clubs chasing financial rewards.
In a similar vein I seem to remember from the Capital Football awards last year that Andrew Pragnell was distinctly lukewarm (and that is being generous) about NZ clubs participating in the proposed OPL. Of course all that changed at NZF when the CWC pathway opened up. Maybe the writer could ask NZF about this.
"We're the only pro club and we want it!" worked so well for so long it's not surprising they haven't adapted. It's all a bit Veruca Salt if you ask me.
What have the Nix had handed to them by a sugar daddy? Verruca Salt might apply to a Gold Coast type club.
The Nix have long been a Charlie Bucket type team and club.
Owners are Charlie’s mum dealing with bedridden, unhelpful grandparents in the league and both sporting bodies and yet still managing to take care of Charlie.
It seems like a f- you very much for money spent this far and please just keep it coming.
I hope there’s a lot of effort going into behind the scenes work convincing them to rethink the league so that 3 NZ teams can participate. It’s mental to include South Melbourne, but exclude the Nix.
The only other option is to go to court to push another NZ team out which seems suboptimal.
Still wonder if NZF would have preferred AFC & the Nix being accepted, with football folk in the Sth Island to channel their resources on pursuing an A League bid.
NZ Football chief executive Andrew Pragnell was not available for an interview this week.
“With OFC having proceeded through their club licensing process in relation to their Professional League, we look forward to liaising with both clubs to ensure they meet the necessary licensing and compliance requirements to confirm their participation.
“While it is good to see this decision opens the door for professional football in Christchurch, it does not change our ambition to see a third A-League side in Aotearoa New Zealand based in the South Island.“
Whatever it is, it’s a mess that it wasn’t sorted out before this point.
It really shouldn’t be up to NZ pro-clubs to be the main drivers of developing Island players. That’s not their job. And as the coach was saying above when quoted by Coochie they want to keep their players at home if possible. I mean sure make academy space available or special scholarships or something, but they’ve got to be ready to a certain level to take up those spaces.
Christchurch speaking out both sides of their mouth: We talked to some academics who said close to home is best which why we’re better than Wellington AND we’re happy to develop players from the islands through our academy which is close to Vanuatu…
It seems like a f- you very much for money spent this far and please just keep it coming.
I hope there’s a lot of effort going into behind the scenes work convincing them to rethink the league so that 3 NZ teams can participate. It’s mental to include South Melbourne, but exclude the Nix.
The only other option is to go to court to push another NZ team out which seems suboptimal.
I dunno- they were talking about a judicial review before?
As soon as their house is in order add in a side from there and the Nix. Job done.
As things stand, the Nix have far bigger fish to fry then this competition. We've gone from being the big fish in a microscopic pond to being eaten alive by an upstart. We can all list issues covering the last 18+ months e.g. the Paulsen sale.
I really worry about how the Nix will get on in the A League this year and wonder if this is being used as a diversionary tactic to hide the fact that we've looked very bad so far this season on the park and must be haemorrhaging casual NZ football fans to Auckland.
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites
Ryan will be solely focusing on GM role for the OFC League, (story in The Press this morning) so United announcing their OFC League coach next week. Maybe Rob Sherman, who already as connections with United and a great working knowledge in the Oceania Region. coochiee
Find it kind of funny Ryan Edwards is both GM of CU (so Dome) and head coach (so Chiefy).
And he has a do or die game to prepare for at Nelson Suburbs this weekend. Busy busy boy
With the greatest of respect I wonder if United might make a more forward-thinking choice. Sherman been around a while and didn't exactly promote a progressive style with Fiji
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I still don't understand what the Nix's argument is.
They've called it a disgrace, and says the process lacks transparency. Yet they haven't actually given any examples which support that. Now that OFC have released their respective report cards, the opposite seems true.
Other than "we're the Phoenix" can someone cite an argument made by Dome that they'd be a better choice than Auckland or Christchurch?
Do you have a link to the OFC report card please?20 Legend
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I still don't understand what the Nix's argument is.
They've called it a disgrace, and says the process lacks transparency. Yet they haven't actually given any examples which support that. Now that OFC have released their respective report cards, the opposite seems true.
Other than "we're the Phoenix" can someone cite an argument made by Dome that they'd be a better choice than Auckland or Christchurch?
Do you have a link to the OFC report card please?20 Legend
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I still don't understand what the Nix's argument is.
They've called it a disgrace, and says the process lacks transparency. Yet they haven't actually given any examples which support that. Now that OFC have released their respective report cards, the opposite seems true.
Other than "we're the Phoenix" can someone cite an argument made by Dome that they'd be a better choice than Auckland or Christchurch?
No need to be flippant... Dome has the report and barely even mentioned it. The club is trying to make a point that OFC lack transparency yet they've given us no indication as to what the report card was missing.
So far the message has been "it's unfair" without any actual rationale. I'm looking to understand what the club's actual argument is, because so it's all just baseless claims.
It’s not common in New Zealand to preempt a potential court case, or whatever they were talking about, in the media.
It’s a mess. Something will happen. Have a bit of patience. And then when it’s happened you can have a good gloat.
But it seems that Dome is representing the club’s and owners’ position, given the way the club has responded overall. And if the Nix men are not great currently, they’d be a lot worse off if some or all of the owners upped sticks.
I wish Done would pull his head in a bit. Some of his statements are embarassing( speed dialing) The Nix are coming across as winey and entitled. Its difficult to get a handle on whats happening but just listening to Pineys two interviews, with Dome and then the GM of CU made it clear to me why CU got picked. They had obviously done their homework on exactly what the Oceania committee were looking for and tailored their application appropriately. Unfortunately Dome banged on about how much money the owners had spent and how great our academy system is. It hurts as a Nix fan to have missed out but it appears to me that the Nix management have badly screwed up.
I disagree. He's doing exactly what I expect him to be doing after missing out. I don't want the club to invest millions and then accept a generic "no thanks" email. His job is to put the nix forward and I see him doing that. People can speculate about our bid but you can't say he's being entitled or petulant until there is more evidence in this story. And I'd say without Domey pushing for it, doubt we'd see it. I feel this is more about people who have made up their minds about the guy and are looking for anything to further their claim. Odd modern day witchhunt sort of thinking. Reminds me of McCarthyism of the 1950s where people were branded as a red(communist) without any evidence to back it up. Also parallels with the position of ACT and NZ First that climate change isn't real. Neither had clear evidence but uses any possible piece of information or twists information to discredit others. (Sorry, wrong thread)
I have an amazing ability to find my way out of mazes. I'm pathological.
It was a serious question that you ‘answered’ but raised another one. A link to somewhere that says Dome has that report please? I haven’t seen it reported anywhere, has anyone else?20 Legend
Napier Phoenix
Do you have a link to the OFC report card please?20 Legend
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I still don't understand what the Nix's argument is.
They've called it a disgrace, and says the process lacks transparency. Yet they haven't actually given any examples which support that. Now that OFC have released their respective report cards, the opposite seems true.
Other than "we're the Phoenix" can someone cite an argument made by Dome that they'd be a better choice than Auckland or Christchurch?
No need to be flippant... Dome has the report and barely even mentioned it. The club is trying to make a point that OFC lack transparency yet they've given us no indication as to what the report card was missing.
So far the message has been "it's unfair" without any actual rationale. I'm looking to understand what the club's actual argument is, because so it's all just baseless claims.
It’s not common in New Zealand to preempt a potential court case, or whatever they were talking about, in the media.
It’s a mess. Something will happen. Have a bit of patience. And then when it’s happened you can have a good gloat.
But it seems that Dome is representing the club’s and owners’ position, given the way the club has responded overall. And if the Nix men are not great currently, they’d be a lot worse off if some or all of the owners upped sticks.
Dome hasn't been shy about speaking to the media about this, so that doesn't really explain the lack of a genuine argument for me.
I'm genuinely not here to gloat, I'm trying to understand what their perspective is, but so far they haven't actually offered anything beyond "we're a professional club"
It was a serious question that you ‘answered’ but raised another one. A link to somewhere that says Dome has that report please? I haven’t seen it reported anywhere, has anyone else?20 Legend
Napier Phoenix
Do you have a link to the OFC report card please?20 Legend
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I still don't understand what the Nix's argument is.
They've called it a disgrace, and says the process lacks transparency. Yet they haven't actually given any examples which support that. Now that OFC have released their respective report cards, the opposite seems true.
Other than "we're the Phoenix" can someone cite an argument made by Dome that they'd be a better choice than Auckland or Christchurch?
No need to be flippant... Dome has the report and barely even mentioned it. The club is trying to make a point that OFC lack transparency yet they've given us no indication as to what the report card was missing.
So far the message has been "it's unfair" without any actual rationale. I'm looking to understand what the club's actual argument is, because so it's all just baseless claims.
Fair enough - the stuff article posted in this thread claimed the Nix have received feedback on their submission.