Team Wellington... no longer an association with Ole. Chur

Had to pop back to comment. A team like TW, the way they're playing at the moment, deserve a much bigger crowd than a couple of hundred. Where are all Wellington's so-called football fans? This is a bloody exciting local team, probably the best you've had. They are giving ACFC a run for their money, and City have just drawn 0-0 with the full Uzbekistan side who beat the All Whites 3-0. 

Why wasn't 600-800 packing that little ground to watch TW play the O League champs? That's what we get at Kiwitea usually. Is Dave Farrington Park not a good location? Is TW too identified with Miramar now for local prejudices? Or could it be because of a certain Australian team.

I certainly hope TW attracts more local interest when it plays in the O League.

BM makes a totally relevant point. Why do 25 times as many people turn up for a team who play in an Australian league over a league in NZ. ACFC have a 100% win record against A-League opposition and now TW beat ACFC 4-0.

What more evidence do the public/media need to suggest that the ASBP is a long way from being crap.

Considering the Phoenix reserves have won half their games shows there is still a massive gap.

So Auckland get twice the crowd with over 3 times the population. 

Good one. 

Just out of interest - what sort of crowds are Phoenix Reserves getting?

about the same as TW I think. The 'derby' got more. 

I'm pretty sure crowds don't equal success or quality on the field - if your basing your whole argument on crowd numbers it's flawed. 

Yeah. The Phoenix should be bottom of the table in that sense.

More like 66% Lost 3-2 to Sydney in only competitive game v A-League team  

Phoenix Reserves results can hardly be taken seriously though when the make up of the team changes most weeks? But if they can then the defeats to Waitakere and TW and wins over the lesser lights of Southern and Wanderers would refute your claims possibly

I don't know what you are saying.

My point is that if the second stringers from the Phoenix can beat half the teams in the ASBP (and should have beaten Waitak, and were very unlucky against TeeDubs), then surely it means the first teamers would cruise through the ASBP.

They'd cruise through half of it just like top 2/3 teams do, but most players signed from ASB Prem have done well for Phoenix and not looked out of place, One of them even got your Player of Year didnt he after only playing what 15 games or so?

My point about Phoenix Reserves still stands though there results are completely irrelevant and cant be taken seriously when you have 6 1st team players one week and only 1 the next!!! 

I'm not sure it is that relevant a point. He is basically having a go at Wellingtonians for not going out and supporting TW. Some of the queries he raises are probably fair enough, but to blame it on the 'Australian league' or 'Australian team' doesn't make sense.

Do we berate Aucklanders for supporting the Warriors but not the Akarana Falcons in the domestic Rugby League comp, or perhaps the Breakers but not the Super City Rangers (given that the Auckland Stars/Pirates have pulled out for financial reasons)? You could make the argument that the Falcons play in the 3rd best domestic Rugby League comp in the world, but that doesn't seem to draw the punters.

I'm sure we'd all love for the TW attendances to be better but I don't think you can say it is the Nix's fault. I have only started going to TW games this year and probably wouldn't have done so if it wasn't for the fact I'm a Nix fan.

By the way, great result for ACFC. 

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/basketball/63613715/Wel...

Interesting article about Nick Mills from the Saints he clearly seems to think that teams playing in Aussie leagues are affecting NZ national leagues and teams, But he still wants the Saints to play in Aussie!!

This has been done to death before but surely no coincidence that Auckland Stars/ Pirates and NH Heat have folded since The Breakers started? And how have Tall Blacks done since Breakers started? World Champ Semis pre Breakers, Post Breakers..... Hmmmmm

The NBL were struggling financially long before the breakers. 

If anything it shows how unviable these kinds of leagues are in NZ financially. theyre worth having, but cost a lot of money - and the funding needs to come from somewhere otherwise teams (or the league) go broke. 

So Nick Mills is wrong then is he? The guy who has run an NBL team for how long? I think I'll take his view on it over yours anyday of the week!!! It may well of been struggling pre Breakers but The Breakers have done nothing to assist it then have they? For all the talk about raising profile of sports by having teams in Aussie Leagues all it seems to do is undermine our National League which I believe was the intial point raised was it not?

Maybe you are right that these Leagues arent sustainable but whats the alternative?  

in fact a number of Auckland teams have gone bust before the breakers even existed.

That last question is a good one. Maybe some extra revenue or at least awareness can come from streaming the sport online. This started with the NBL this year, but was poorly done. It is looking like it'll halpen with ASBP next season. Aside from that, I'm not so sure.

every now and then I will be really bored at work, and will notice that this thread has 50 unread messages. Then I open the thread and start to read them.  Then I want to stab my eyes out with a pencil.

I think what's being said here is really relevant, regardless of those that decry this thread and don't want to think about it. I don' think there is any question that having high-profile NZ teams in Australian competitions hurts local leagues. It has happened in rugby league, basketball and is happening in football. The Super Rugby competition involving teams from NZ, Oz and SA has also seen a marked decline in interest in provincial NZ rugby, once a hotbed of support. The local media simply aren't interested in local competitions when more "glamorous" Australian/international competitions are on offer. Media interest means bums on seats.

The failure of Team Wellington to attract supporters, despite fielding a very good side, highlights the dilemma. That less than 200 bothered to go to Dave Farrington Park to see the recent game against ACFC, O League champions about to head off to the CWC, was a great shame. In fact I'd go as far as to say it was insulting to the players of both sides who are really delivering it on the field. At least the same fixture at Kiwitea Street would have pulled in over 1000. 

Now we have all of Auckland's so-called football media fixated on the fact the Phoenix are coming to Eden Park on the 13th. Probably 18,000+ will turn out for an A League game (please Mr Dome - don't move more Phoenix games to Auckland). Most of those who go wouldn't go to an ACFC or Waitakere game in the ASBP because it's not hyped or glamorous enough. ACFC recently drew with Uzbekistan and didn't even get a mention on TVNZ sports news.

you don't even read other posts do you? 

there isn't even correlation in many of these instances. Not that BM will take any notice of that #selectiveReading 

I genuinely don't know, but what were crowds like prior to the Nix, Kingz, Knights?  Was the top domestic competition considered a success at that time?  

crowds don't equal success...

happy to be corrected on any of this, but...TW had decent crowd to begin with. A lot of those were season passes given to association clubs. They then declined (pre-nix) as those clubs dropped out and now it's basically Miramar that runs it (and good on them)

But even then, nowhere near the 8000+ Crowd that professional football (nix, Knights, kingz) brings, yet these teams are apparently a bad thing? 

Free tickets or not they still turned up on Friday nights and Sundays in bigger numbers than they do now by some distance the reason for this I dont think we will ever agree on!!

Explain please.

Regardless, the crowds declined before the nix. So that kind of screws up your nix argument doesn't it? 

Plus I will take 50 less of a crowd in the ASBP if it means 8000 more people get out to watch a professional football match every 2nd week, and youngsters have an additional pathway to pro football within our own country. 

As I said we'll never agree!! But healthy debate all the same, 

it's only a debate if you take the other persons points into consideration. 

I have I just dont agree with it, As you dont agree with mine 

if crowd numbers were the only measure of success then some of the best leagues in world sport would be classed as second rate.

One example is the ITM Cup:

ITM Cup (probably considered the best national rugby comp in the world) - struggling with crowd numbers http://www.3news.co.nz/sport/itm-cup-struggling-to...

If you go up to Super Rugby some of those crowd numbers are pretty poor as well - but does anyone doubt that Super Rugby is the premier non-international competition in the world.

I know the Georgie Pie super smash isn't world class but they also have problems with crowds, but that competition isn't at risk because there is a fat paycheck up for grabs with the world 20/20 champs each year

you don't agree that NBL teams were going broke before the breakers. 

You don't agree that TW crowds were in decline before the nix? 

You don't agree that a crowd of 8000 is more than a crowd of 300-600? 

interesting. 

#1 Partly agree but Breakers havent helped or promoted game in way people claim if they had then teams wouldnt be going bust anymore because so many more people would be into Basketball due to Breakers.

#2 No dont agree at all. And crowds in Auckland declined post Knights 

#3 Dont recall ever disagreeing with you on that one....... 

Cricket only got its self to blame 5 games in a weekend some involving teams not even from the host City, Playing in November when nights usually cooler, Playing while top 20/25 players overseas and lastly playing majority of games in Hamilton. But thats to be expected when NZC Domestic Comps manager is ex ND man......

also a quote from an article today about NBL.

"6 out of 8 teams get full houses" 

Yeah the breakers are really killing that one. The problem there is funding, which is a similar problem the ASBP faces. 

ASBP crowds in wellington dropped pre-nix and stayed about the same. Funnily enough the biggest crowd was when TW played wee nix. 

The kingz were founded in 1999 and Knights in 2004. The ASBP (formerly NZFC) started in 2004 so you can't say those attendances dropped in Auckland after these teams were introduced because they were there first (or at the same time). So that's clearly rubbish. 

i think the point is they realise that crowds are not funding their competitions, TV coverage is.  Plus crowds were on the decline before this super smash concept.

1st year of NZFC/ASB Prem there was no Aussie team in NZ  so clearly NOT rubbish!!!

And the fact that biggest crowd was TW v Phoenix Reserves says it all really..... And shows just how gullable the NZ sporting public actually are

Be intereting to know which 6 of 8 teams left are getting full houses?? Certainly not the Rangers in Auckland and they only charge $4!!!

I only started attending TW games when I started getting involved with YF/Nix. I also started attending club matches (between 1 and 3  on a Saturday through winter). Personally this is all down to following the Phoenix. If they didn't exist I am not sure where the heck I'd be.

Due to previous non-involvement I don't profess to have any knowledge of previous TW attendance numbers. I do however know that since I started going, the numbers have remained reasonably steady and maybe even increased. I know for sure that there were a number of ASBP virgins in attendance at the TW v ACFC match the other week. A lot of these people have recently got more involved in the YF and decided to come along because of this.

As we all know, the YF exists because the Phoenix exist.

By my logic, this means having the Phoenix has assisted in raising awareness and attendance at these ASBP matches.

(My views only)