Arsenal 2023/24

I’m watching the replay now and there isn’t even any contact?

I thought there was some rule about not giving 2 punishments for the 1 infringement??? 

That's the one I'm trying to point out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36047575

While I appreciate the exact language pointed out I believe the BBC article articulates the intention behind the rule change.

Lets not forget Luiz got sent off earlier in the season, a last man challenge, that time there was intent to win the ball but same result - red card and penalty. So which one is it that isn't supposed to be a red card?

I don't think there's an arsenal bias or anything like that, but this stuff just shows the ridiculous inconsistency.

There's all sorts of clips flying round on social media showing calls vs non calls for no inexplicable reason. The FA really need to be taking stock and reviewing it all, and cleaning up the consistency for next season. 

VAR is here to stay, it just needs to be done better.

Obviously the inconsistency is very frustrating but by observing incidents like this you can see how fans perpetuate that inconsistency.

Case in point is this thread - the law is very clear. Luiz didn't play the ball. It feels harsh but that's the rule. Asking the referee to apply some kind of interpretation of "harshness" is what drives the inconsistency. 

This is particularly important with VAR - there is no room for grey area within the rules.

Pundits and commentators need to change their language from "it's not a red for me!!!!" to "it's a red as per the rules, but we should change that"

This cracks me up. How is the discussion in this thread "perpetuating" the referee's inconsistency? They aint reading it. It aint affecting them.

Nobody here is "asking the referee" anything, again, they aint reading this. 

How does our discussion "drive the inconsistency"?

No one but the referees and their administrators are to blame for it. And the examples are in your face, all the time. 

You could argue against the Luiz example, no problem (your explanation, while you want it to be clear cut, is not, going by the ex referees etc who disagree with you), that's fine, but then look at all the others. It's a non stop circus with the consistency. 

Bruno's "tackle" on xhaka last week was a really nice example. We've had multiple players sent off this season for less late, less violent challenges. 

I don't think anyone could argue that this is not an issue with VAR in the EPL at the moment, let alone blame the fans for it and tell them how they need to change.

I'm not saying fans are the reason, I'm saying that online conversation, public opinion, and media analysis drives the conversation which adds to the problem.

To word what I'm trying to say a different way... when players/fans/media demand this magical grey area when interpreting incidents like Luiz then the end result will always be inconsistency. Perhaps "this thread" is unfair, but a majority of online opinion that I see are saying the referee was wrong to send Luiz off.

Have you ever considered that you might be wrong about the Luiz decision?

Reason i ask is that the exct wording of the rule does not cover the luiz' scenario.

Mark Clattenburg has written in his column, with confidence, that it most definitely should not have been a red, and he references the laws of the game.

In addition, I find it totally bizarre that almost an identical incident occurred in that phoenix game, and it was accepted without question that it was accidental, so no penalty or card.

Even if you are correct, I think these facts alone show that it actually is a grey area that needs further clarification. And that was never a point that I set out to make in the first place. 

I just read Mark Clattenburg's column. He blatantly contradicts himself:

The Arsenal defender made accidental contact with Willian Jose as he ran clear on goal and that caused the forward to fall. No one can dispute it was a foul and the award of a penalty was the right decision.

However, a law exists that protects teams from conceding a penalty and losing a player to a red card if a genuine attempt to play the ball has been made.

The law was meant to see players sent off after conceding a penalty only if they had deliberately fouled an opponent to deny a clear scoring opportunity. Arsenal and Luiz should feel aggrieved.

So the law says only if there was a genuine attempt to play the ball. Yet Clattenburg wants the referee to ignore the rule as it is written, instead choosing to officiate based on the referee's interpretation of the intent of the rule.

Clattenburg's attitude entirely proves my point. If referees choose to "interpret" a black and white rule, the end result is a grey area that feeds inconsistency.

...But yes I agree. My point was that a lot of people are calling the referee wrong for applying the rules as they are written.

To underline how inconsistently this is being applied David Luiz has had his red card upheld, while Bednarak has had his red card overturned for two identical scenarios.

I havent rewatched the Bednarek incident to see how similar it was, assume it mustve also been an accidental contact rather than an attempt to play ball or man?

I guess the key difference is that one incident changed a game completely, whereas the other didn't, which makes it an even worse decision.

They're honestly the same scenario. But by there is less reputational risk to the FA to overturn the Bednarek decision as the game was lost. Fudgeing atrocious - even John Terry's come out in support of Luiz!

Well that was shark. The fact that the only goal came from Soares fudge up and a deflected shot only compounds our absolute lack of luck.

The only positive for me was see the way Martin O took us up a gear - kid plays the game at a pace above most of our team which is great to see.

We get a week to regroup, get Leno back in goal, and hopefully Tierney back.

But fudge me do we like making this hard.

We've had some really rotten luck, the team have had to go through a lot of adversity, but they stick together, the morale and attitude seems very good.

The last two games haven't gotten me down as much as I would've thought. You can see clear progression, excellent patterns of play, we're just not quite putting it altogether consistently.

Games like the Wolves one will happen, but as this squad matures with Arteta's methods, games like the Aston Villa one won't happen any longer. 

It's a long journey. 

How good was Mat Ryan on his debut? Apparently he's a proper Arsenal fan, love that, good on him. Very good to have a pretty solid back up now. Things may have been quite different with Runarsson in goal yesterday, who is quite raw. 

Man it will be good to have Tierney back.

While we're floundering I'm enjoying Mourinho's slow unravelling. No silverware on the cards this season, their fans bemoaning their lack of style and identity, pinning for Poch and highlighting he was sacked for less. Then the FA Cup loss - too good.

Speaking of FA Cup, I'm glad Soton knocked us out - denied Wolves the chance to go for the trebble!

Or we would have beaten Wolves and then got Bournemouth in the QF. 

Spurs still a chance in the League Cup Final so I'll be supporting Citeh all the way.

Does winning the league cup get you anything?

Direct entry into the Europa League and it's still a trophy.

Don’t forget the whopping £100K prize money

City is on track for the 500th win in a row of it anyway.

Great result for us today, Luiz showed why Holding should be starting and Willian continued to offer nothing. Pepe & Nelson should be offended every time he makes the pitch ahead of him.

Good result this morn. Thankfully that overturned penalty didn't need to be a talking point, honestly no idea how the ref considered that an obvious error. Wouldn't mind if that had been the way situations like that had been treated in other games through the season, but as we know the consistency of the VAR decisions is a joke in the premier league. 

Interesting to see Smith-Rowe and Odegaard in the same line-up, the technical passing and movement was exceptional with them and Saka playing it about. Ceballos' passing and tight-space work in midfield was really good this morning too, his skillset was perfect for that sort of game. 

We have a really hard run coming in the league now though. If we're going to have a go at european spots we're going to need to beat some decent teams. We know we're capable but I can't see us doing it consistently, particularly with Tierney and Partey struggling for fitness. 

Next 6 league fixtures;

Man City at home

Leicester away

Burnley away

Tottenham at home

West ham away

Liverpool at home

How many points would you be happy with out of that lot? I reckon perhaps 9 or 10 would be a good effort, then try and go on a strong run through the final 8 games of the season which are a lot kinder, and see where we end up. 

Obviously try and have a good crack at the Europa League too. You never know what can happen there.

Burnley and Westham must win games! Those are usually the ones we "drop" points on.

Leicester are beatable, Man C, Tottenham and Liverpool will be challenging, although the latter seems to be struggling right now.

West Ham away will not be easy. They are in great form this season hence their position on the table. Burnley is the only game I have a slight bit of confidence in. Hopefully Auba being back and scoring changes my attitude. Can't believe that was his first EPL hattrick considering his scoring record. 81 goals in 132 games.

Overtook Sanchez on our all time list, 26th now.

And looking at the list he would expect to go up a few places by the end of the season, there is some congestion above him. 

Saw a couple of rumours this past week. Firstly Arteta is considering extending Luiz another year, because of his influence on the younger players. I assume a lot would be unhappy with that, but personally I would be fine with it. I think he's been a positive for  us since signing him, overall.

Secondly I saw some chat about Arteta wanting to bring Ramsey back. Now that would seem a long shot, but I would be very happy if it happened. If Ceballos and Odegaard are not permanently signed then he would slot right in.

If you want Luiz for that reason offer him an assistant manager role, he shouldn't be near a playing role next season.

Ramsey is appealing for sentimental reasons, but he's just turned 30. He's the wrong age for us to be signing - especially with Xhaka & Partey at 28/27 respectively.

I'd be more interested in dropping £25m on Ceballos at 24 - can only imagine him getting better under Arteta as the wider squad picture comes right.

Willock & AMN loan moves are going well. Willock scored on debut and AMN is playing in CM including the full 90 in a draw with United on the weekend. One or both of them should be in contention for midfield playing time next season.

really? I think he has been very disappointing this season and don't think he offers us anything we don't already have in other players. 

I think he offers more in possession than Elneny does, has the capacity to improve still, and will only look better and better with the likes of ESR, Saka, MO11v2, Auba in front of him. I think he's unfairly being judged on our barren spells this season when we were so average on offence.

Dani is a good times player. He only really looks good when the rest of the team does, and usually disappears at the 60 min mark. He also likes to show 'how good he is' by doing dumb flicks and passes in our own defensive 3rd. Not a fan.

Who can we get that is better for the price being flagged? Genuinely interested :)

Well this aged well ??♂️??

Wow that was pretty insane

I took the day off work today to watch this (and do some other stuff) and for a while, it was looking bleak at 2-3 on aggregate and needing two goals. I like to think by wearing my Aubameyang shirt had something to do with the comeback :) Still some tough teams left in this and we haven't had the kindest of draws in the cup competitions this year.

not the prettiest of wins but I'll take it

So glad we locked in our annual fixture against Olympiacos. The Sokratis reunion will be fun, as will the desire to make up for last year!

Excellent win this morning. Nullified them pretty well, except for the soft goal. Bad giveaway from Xhaka/Willian, and Elneny should've come out to Tielemans I thought, but it was a good finish. That's what Leicester do, so dangerous when they win the ball, from anywhere on the pitch.

Overall we dominated the entire match though, and thankfully found ways to unlock them, even without Saka, Auba and Smith-Rowe (for the most part). 

Willian was surprisingly influential. Odegaard continues to improve since we got him. Pepe was Pepe really. When he gets a lot of ball in the attacking end things happen.

Xhaka was so influential in midfield and I love that Partey has been eased back in the last couple of games. 

Mari is low-key our best CB in my opinion. Good decision-maker, class on the ball, and is actually fast, despite his size. An unheralded signing as he's had a couple of injuries since coming in, but deserves a lot of kudos.

Good win this morning. Glad he finally gave the likes of Saka a rest. Need to prioritise the Europa from now on imo.