Manchester United (Part 2)

Most negative spin:

Got beat for most of the game against Chelsea, then counter attacked against an obviously shambolic defence. Absolute lack of quality against Crystal Palace, couldn't put a shot on target, and then same shark against Southampton with a dismal Rashford the lowlight.

Can't afford players misplacing 3 paces each all game - simply not good enough.

Most positive spin amongst the negativity to round off the weekend and before the international break:

For all our problems we're still above Chelsea. If VAR doesn't balls us and Lindelof doesn't miss two headers (against Crystal Palace and against Southampton) we're actually 10 out of the first 12 points. Christ, even the Wolves game was down to an absolute screamer.

Squad depth isn't there, we know that. We acknowledged this was a rebuilding season before we kicked off. We've moved some dead weight, still more to shift, and our new signings are actually playing well. Pogba seems to be getting himself around the park around a lot more too.

Honestly feel like we're heading down the right path this time. A few more signings to add (a true world class number 10 would be ideal) and....

With that I feel like we're almost going to get over the weird mental hurdle we have which means we can't see out games.

Pobga has not had a good game this season. Not saying he is not capable, but he had a shocker yesterday. He looks like he would rather be elsewhere.

It is rumoured  that he is not on the Utd calendar for 2020 which leaves me to believe that we will be selling him in the not too distant future. 

I am not so negative about the whole situation. We have certainly not played our best, both in front of goal and when conceding. But each game we should have done enough to win. The plan and style at the moment is promising, the majority of the players playing deserve to be playing and we have gotten rid of so much of the dead wood, its very relieving. 

Ole is still learning, he hasn't had perfect match days but there are many more positive signs than negative. 

In respect to yesterdays game, the end product was just really poor and Southampton punished us when they could. I know there are flaws in xG but it is worth noting that while we have definitely under performed vs xG since the Chelsea game, the opposition has also overperformed and I am optimistic

Thought that was actually our worst attacking performance of the season, but defensively we completely nullified a completely toothless Leicester.

Within context of each game, it's not actually a bad start to the season. We got screwed over against Palace, and conceded a screamer to a very good Wolves side.

I thought there was some signs of improvement in some of the general play, nothing major but some improvement. There were some one touch passing combinations which didnt come off but I thought I could see intention and maybe with more time those passing routines will become sharper. I saw something that Periera was doing that might be part of his inconsistency. When Chong came on he put real pressure on the ball carrier but when he actually lost the ball he tracked back very hard to apply pressure which in turn a couple of times forced errors. Periera however when he lost the ball tracked back but it didnt have the intensity of Chongs tracking back and rarely in those situations did Periera  force any errors. Conversely I did see he was near the top of the tackle and interceptions count. Thought Fred looked better than he has previously. Hope Chong gets some more time too. 

I've been hoping for a couple of seasons that Periera would make it at Utd, but I don't really think he is up to it. 

There's lots of people who (rightly) say players should be able to play any position, and should be happy during their youth years to play where asked.

I think Periera is the argument against that. Has had spells as a #10, left winger, right winger, and even a holding midfielder.

I can't fault Perieras work rate tbh, I thought he pressed well and was keen to win the ball. But they pretty much had him playing as a winger,which is a complete waste of time when we have talent like Chong and Greenwood on the bench. 

I was disappointed to not see Gomes get on. I'm really itching to see him get a run in the team. I genuinely believe this kid has all the qualities to become a top, top level footballer. 

Overall it was dour, but Leicester are a team that can take it to anyone so getting the 3 points and a clean sheet is a good start. 

Stolen from reddit but, long-term contracts at United:

• GK: de Gea (28), Henderson (22)
• Def: Shaw (23), Maguire (26), Lindelof (25), AWB (21), Tuanzebe (21), Dalot (20), McTominay (22)
• Attack: James (21),  Martial (23), Pereira (23), Lingard (26), Fred (26), Chong (19), Rashford (21)

Gomes, Pogba, and Greenwood are non long-term deals yet

As the commenter says, it looks like Ole has a plan with a bit of direction. Again, if some of those players can reach their potential (Rashford is still only 21) and we can sprinkle in a truly world class player I'm feeling positive about the future.

Greenwood finally scores, after Astana have repelled us for 72 minutes. Nice finish, underwhelming performance so far, but a very young side and lots of guys who haven't been involved yet.

To be fair, when we scored they literally had 8 guys in the box, embarassing really.

Wow can't believe de Gea is only 28, still a long way to go in that career. 

Was just about to post how defensively sound we've been, but we've just been undone by Yarmolenko.

Anyway, other thoughts from the game so far - Really poor.

Tempo - missing

Attack - missing

Pressure - missing

It's been a hard watch to say the least, actually it's been pretty awful. I'm unsure how our counter attacking setup is supposed to work against a side that is, what I'd say, only marginally more attack minded than we are, also feel they're setup well to nullify James and Rashford. They've definitely been a bit more dynamic and they've got their reward for it now too. Intrigued to see how this 2nd half will play out, however it plays out, needs to be far better than that 1st half display.

Watching on NBCSN and Rashford walked down the tunnel in a rage at the end of that first half too, he's been cutting a pretty disconsolate figure up the top end of the pitch for us so far.

Didn't look like scoring, Rashford injured and no positives to take out of that one. We weren't just flat, it looked like we'd just flat-lined. Worst performance of the season so far. Not really much else to say, other than that was a painful watch.

Next 3 Premier League fixtures - Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool.

The current Manchester United player: presses once and then needs to have a rest for 20 minutes, can't pass 10 yards, 6 defenders can't nullify 6 West Ham players. Jack Wilshire (not even good enough to start for West Ham) comes on and starts acting like a cocky bellend.

After that shameful performance I doubt any supporter thinks that  we will finish in the top 6.  If so, then they are dreaming.

I said it earlier - can't remember if it was on this forum or on Twitter - we'll struggle to make the top 8. The game finished 8 hours ago and they could still be playing now and we wouldn't have scored.

Completely gutless. Ole talks the big talk when it comes to the youngsters (and yes I know Greenwood has been getting some good minutes) but Gomes should have been on for Mata or Pereira 20-25 minutes before he was eventually called on.

What happened to the pressing style of football we were playing in pre-season? It seems like we've just completely given up on that now and if one person does press the rest just stand there and watch. 

Anyone who gets their knickers in a twist, get onto Spotify and download the Rant Cast podcasts. Unlike some other podcasts, they know we are rubbish, have been for a while, and will be for a while yet. We aren't who we were, this season will be a disaster, so just relax and enjoy it when we get some good results.

It's very easy to get emotional at 3am in the morning...

End of the day as some have said - we've taken a step backward to go forward. We are crap and these results are going to happen.

"Hammered"??

Absolutely pish again. Our club is rotten to its core.

Im starting to wonder about the quality of training sessions etc. Liverpool played a bunch of youngsters and looked exciting, the style of play and quality of performance was light years ahead of ours. God I hated writing that.

Greenwood looks a decent player to be fair, I'm yet to see anything at all from Chong though.

Greenwood's a baller. And so far his goals he's had to make himself. Imagine if he had some players around whom could give him the ball in some space.

I see Rashford is out of the Arsenal game. Martial still injured.

What is your likely starting eleven? 

Lacazette is still injured for us, and it's probably too early for Bellerin, Tierney and Holding to start. 

Hard to say with Emery, but I'm guessing we might go with:

                       Leno

Chambers-Sokratis-Luiz-Kolasinac

     Torreira-Xhaka-Guendouzi

       Pepe-Aubameyang-Saka

Honestly anyone's game I reckon. We were good yesterday but Forest let us play. We've been a bit sh*t for the most part, oddly managing not to lose though... we have a pretty bad record at OT in recent years, especially when you guys have looked ripe for the picking, funnily enough. You seem to get up for us. Perhaps this game comes at a good time for you in that respect, a win could kickstart your season. In fact a win in this one would be a really big boost for either side to be fair, it's a big game. 

I think it will be:

                 De Gea

AWB-Lindeloff-Maguire-Young

            Pogba---McTominay

                   Mata

Andreas---Greenwood---James

Would have maybe had Chong above Andreas before his dismal performance this morning. Mata or Lingard is up for grabs as well.

I'd be more confident with Martial in the squad. Or even someone like Gomes starting above Mata. But don't think the latter is going to happen.

Honestly, if Arsenal are clever and prevent our counter you could be in for a big win.

what's the chance of a relegation fight? Love Ole, and think he's possibly going in the right direction, but he needs a few results and a buffer. And the Maguires, McTominays etc. to really prove they're worth playing for Man U.

He's certainly going in the right direction if he gets them relegated.

Think Neville said it right - we've taken a step backward to go forward. Probably a bigger step backward than we'd like. 

As long as Anderas & Mata start then we would have no show. Both not nearly good enough. The last two games Anders has been embarrassing. Today the MEN reporters gave him a  3, which just about summed him up. 

The share price is sliding mainly due to projected  revenue dropping on expectations that they will be unable to qualify for the Champions League in the next few years. 

The Glazers are reported to be selling a 15% stake for 300M Pounds with the puchaser having no voting rights.

Hmm: Interesting times 

If Gomes is fit I would definitely start him centrally over Mata but it won't happen. Think Lingard will play just because he seems to do alright against Arsenal. Certainly the weakest United-Arsenal match-up in my living memory.

As long as David Luiz is playing we have a chance.

It feels like we are starting from scratch. Fergie got it so wrong with Moyes and we are now having to actually do a rebuild.  I think the current situation all comes from that first mistake. LVG and Mourinho both wrong choices after Moyes, Mourinho might have been better if he had started when Moyes took over. Its going to be a slow process, wonder how patient some fans will be. Im of a mind to give ole a decent amount of time but only if there are improvements in style and quality of play, can deal with results not kicking in quickly if we at least look like we are improving.

The rot started waaaaay before Moyes. A lot of people believe it began during that Rock of Gibraltar fiasco - I know there was a definite change when we sold Ronaldo and bought in David Bellion Gabriel Obertan etc......and then the demolition by Barca in the CL final the following year. Nothing from that point (2009) was anywhere near as good as beforehand, either on the pitch or how the club was structured and operated. Fergie was a suck up to the Glazers, as he is bound to be, and has to take some of the responsibility. In their combined arrogance and short sightedness, United have allowed City, Liverpool, Spurs to streak ahead in terms of cattle on the field, facilities, scouting, etc.

The Ole thing is funny - while he clearly needs to be given time, he clearly isn't the right man for the job. So what do you do?

Can't speak to too much of that, but FYI David Bellion was signed before Ronaldo......

So who is?

Who am I thinking off? Obertan?? Same point, but worse!

That's the $64m question!

Both signed in 2003.