Manchester United (Part 2)

United have not signed a ton of players. From when Mourinho started, United have bought 11 first team players, which includes Zlatan (gone), Mkhitaryan (gone), Dalot (19yo) and Grant (3rd GK). City = 15, Liverpool = 14 and Arsenal = 13 for the same period. 

Bailly and Lindelof were 22yo when they signed, so its unlikely that they are to be world class defenders from the first season, regardless of money spent. We have spent a lot of money, yes, and I agree that some of them have not performed. But not every signing does. And how many are those that you would expect to be in a Mourinho team? Maybe 5? Over three seasons? That's not supporting the manager. 

Secondly, I just think that Mourinho looks out for himself by trying to win games and trophies. He has high expectations. He expects players to be disciplined, to counter attack quickly and to win the physical battles. And when he doesn't have players that can do those things, then both the players who can't play that way and the manager who doesn't win games lose out. 

I ultimately think that Mourinho was just the right man at the wrong time. The players needed to buy in to his methods and the board needed to respect who they had hired. 

It's not even about player attitude and enjoyment. - it's about doing what you're good at.

Mourinho was asking his team to do things they weren't good at. Ole is asking them to do things they are good at.

That's management 101 whether you're building a football team or whether you're running a company.

When Mourinho came in he spoke about growing youth, scoring goals, playing attacking football, and winning trophies. He refused to adapt to any of those things. Personally, I commend the board for not doubling down and backing him further or else United truly would have lost all remnants of its roots. 

The only mistake was hiring him in the first place.

11 buys and only Matic an established starter out of those when he left. That's a failure in anyone's books, especially when you look at the fees, and when you consider that only one (Grant) was bought to be an actual back-up.

Everyone knows Mourinho isn't a developer of younger players, so Bailly initially looking high quality before fading isn't a surprise. Then you look at expensive, proven performers, as that seems to be Mourinho's forte, but I would have looked at how top class players like Pogba, Sanchez and Matic appeared to get worse under him, and that would've made me reluctant to outlay anything on guys like Alderweireld if I was Woodward.

So what I'm saying is that I agree he wasn't supported in his final season, but that's all, and there was good reason for it in my opinion. 

Could you personally imagine sitting in your office and trying to justify signing a $100,000,000 cheque for a player on the word of someone who reports to you when he's struggling to to beat teams whose entire squad is less than 1/5th of that?

No surprises the money dried up.

I think this is a pretty good point. His selfishness is absolutely fine when it also benefits everyone else, because as you say, he ultimately wants to win, and that's what the club and the fans want too.

However when that doesn't happen, that's when you see the worst side of him I feel - his me-first attitude suddenly conflicts with what is best for the club/fans when the wins dry up, and he starts making decisions to make a point, and talking sh*t about his own players in his press conferences. 

To the same extent that Mourinho has a responsibility to use tactics that suit players and players that suit tactics, the players have a responsibility to perform under those tactics. Everyone has to buy in and for the first two seasons, enough players bought in enough of the time to win two trophies and get a second in the league. 

Again, I think the board is making too many footballing decisions and undermining the person they employ as the football manager. If you don't agree with the way that the manager is doing things, then part ways. The board has to respect the way in which the manager wants to run the football club to the same extent the manager has to respect the way in which the board wants to run the football club. 

And it is great when the board and the manager are on the same path. Its happening at Spurs with Pochettino, maybe at Liverpool and thus far with Ole at United. But not at Chelsea with Mourinho or Sarri as the board do what they want and the manager has to deal with it. I would argue that Guardiola has more power than the City board and that club is being run how Pep wants. Sancho and Diaz would never have been able to leave at other clubs. 

To your point about Mourinho's me-first attitude, its funny that actually the decisions to make a point and the roasting players publically dried up in the third season. Shaw and Martial, the players who he attacked the most, actually came good and are better for it. But we won't speak about this. 

Yes, he does actually talk sh*t on his own players in press conferences regardless of how the team is performing, I forgot about that. I guess that's a trait he has all the time, not just when he is losing. 

I think you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to try and fashion his treatment of Shaw and Martial into a success story. To me they came good despite the treatment, not because of it. All I see is wasted time in their career development where Mourinho wasn't improving them, and publicly smashing them. They also had their own adversity to deal in this period with which would've given them more life experience and mental strength than anything Mourinho said. 

Now they are starting to look like what they looked like before Mourinho got hold of them, in my opinion. I don't think Mourinho bashing them publicly had anything to do with their upward trajectory. 

Mou seems to have a one size fits all approach to dealing with players, at least from what we see publicly, and it won't work for all of them. LI think Shaw is the exception rather than the rule.

Yea agreed, and I imagine that the one size approach is meant to align the players with the style / traits he wants in his teams. Martial and Pogba do not fit and did not align, and maybe that's why they didn't perform. 

There is also the arguement that the world has changed and players need to be treated in a different way. But if you want tough players that are disciplined and will give 100% towards the cause then you are more likely to treat them with some tough love. Because while its all nice with Martial, Pogba, Rashford, Herrera etc with Ole now, Lukaku, Mata and Sanchez are yet to even be selected much. 

The difference being that Mata and Sanchez aren't the future, and Lukaku simply isn't good enough.

Stand corrected on shaw with those comments to be fair,  good point. Agree on the one size fits all theory with mourinho too. A bit dated with the latest generation, seems to be all hugs and kisses with the modern managers.

Sorry United fans but I did actually laugh when i read this.... Almost a "Do you know who I am?" scenario......

Oh Dear.

Easily done LG. If I was in that situation and was presented with some famous American Baseball/Grid Iron/ Basketball, or Ice Hockey players I would not have a clue as I don't follow any of those sports.

True Leggy But Pogba? other than a walking fashion statement is also a globally known player except to the United fan's parents.

Jurgen Klopp. Three years at Liverpool. Nil trophies won but 300,000 hugs given.

Probably on a par with AW over the last 7 years.

Hahahahahahaha, never change Leggy, never change. 

I have heard of beginners luck but really? Why are they even bothering looking at anyone else to take on the job? You don't need a big name to manage, you just need a intelligent person. SAF was not that flash a name at Aberdeen when he then arrived at United, but he had the brains.Just make OGS's position permanent before you lose him.

What's that? 8 games in a row?

Fantastic stuff. Loved Lingard's finish.

Spot on LG, just a manager who can play a way that suits the club. We don't need no stubborn philosophy journeyman.

Alex Ferguson had achieved 100 times more than Solskjaer has before managing Man Utd. Was already extremely highly regarded, and it was just a case of which 'big club' he'd end up in.

Ferguson's achievements at Aberdeen were pretty remarkable

1 Scottish Cup win.

Say what?

Um no.

Side note: He has also been given the "freedom of the city of Aberdeen", and was actually made an "Officer of the Order of the British Empire" before he started work at Manchester United... 

Good article imo

https://www.football365.com/news/not-good-enough-f...

Realised Solskjaer is Man U's Chris Greenacre

What more could OGS do? Why offer him the interim job if he can perform almost perfectly and not get the actual job? We've had 3 managers come in and not perform, why would we suddenly turf out the one that has performed?

I don't care about his management pedigree, I care what he's doing with the team. Right now, its very hard to make a case for him to not get the full time job. However, we don't have to make the decision right now. There's no harm in waiting to see if we can maintain this or even continue to improve but I fully expect him to be our new manager at the end of the season.

Not to mention he will come a lot cheaper than Poch. I think around 7 million pounds was quoted on top of the rumoured 1.5 we've already paid to take him 'on loan'. Spurs haven't been going too well either since Mourinho left and Poch started getting touted seriously for the United job. 

I like Pochettino, but this whole argument that someone needs to be a proven winner with certain a pedigree and history is stupid. It's also the same logic that got us Mourinho.

For instance, Guardiola took over the Barcelona first team after 1 season with the reserves (where he won their league). If you applied the same logic then as some of our fans do, Guardiola never would have got this promotion. He never would have managed one of the best sides on earth. And I don't think he ever would have made it.

With that said, the same people parroting this argument need to do some reading. Ole has won the league with United reserves, as well as the Norwegian league twice... Pochettino has never won a thing.

I think it's wise to wait until the end of the season to make the call. Certainly would be pretty silly to offer him a contract now when he's clearly not going elsewhere for the moment. Assess at the end of the season and make a decision in my opinion. 

Also just to give balance to that managerial record, the last norwegian trophy win was in 2013, the ManU reserves trophies were all 2008 - 2010, and he's since failed with Cardiff in the Premier League/Championship, and been sacked. So he's done some good, but he's also had setbacks, and hasn't won a trophy for 6 years. It might be that the ManU job is the perfect fit for him, but surely give it more time first. 

 The Cardiff thing gets a lot of mention but there is a significant difference in a Cardiff squad which simply werent good enough to stay up and a Man utd squad that were underperforming. On top of that lessons learned from being unsuccessful with Cardiff might actually have made him a better manager than his time with Cardiff. The Cardiff argument is not really an important point given his very clear improvement since then. I failed school C first time around decades ago but then ended up with two entirely different degrees. People are able to improve with experience and time. Maybe just maybe thats what we see here.

Barely any PL teams left and we go and draw Chelsea away in the FA Cup. Should be a good game!

Solskjaer won 2 titles and 2x coach of the year awards when managing Molde, BEFORE he went to Cardiff. Since he was sacked and went back to Molde, he hasn't won anything. Calling that "very clear improvement" is a bit of a stretch... 

He also continued managing Cardiff in the Championship after relegation, it wasn't only about staying up. He was sacked 2 months into that due to poor results. With it also being his first managerial role in England, I suspect it would have been the main red flag that has ManU being careful. Well that and getting burned by re-signing Mourinho on a new contract of course. 

I wonder how Pep would go at Cardiff and Molde?

Yea would be interesting to see. Guess we'll never know, as he went straight to senior Barca Manager from the Reserves, the equivalent of Solskjaer taking the ManU job in 2010.

I think the important bit I'm trying to drum home is that, sure, Ole is not a guaranteed success in the long run, but being a big name in the managerial would isn't a necessity whereas someone who fits the club is.

Chris Wood status: on fire.

edit: Looks like Ole will escape with a draw. Consecutive wins run comes to a halt.

I do wonder where we'd be with players that can defend. Great effort to come back from two goals down but we should have never been there. Interesting to start Andreas over Herrera - thought we really missed Anders dynamism in the middle.