WeeNix
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620
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Does any United fan here follow FC United, or Salford?
First Team Squad
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1.4K
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almost 13 years
Atkinson a disgrace. Bottled a probable penalty shout for West Ham, a probable one for us, and then a stone cold penalty against Ronny at the end and sure enough they go and get a penalty at the other end.

Also these new "rules" that the Premier League has adopted just means players can lean over attackers and generally grab them and get away with it. Farcical.

Love that Lingard scored after last week.
Legend
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about 14 years
Loltastic finish.

Hammers don’t sign Lingard, then applaud him as a sub warming up, sing a chant for him and he scores an absolutely gorgeous goal to go 2-1 up.
Ronaldo is denied two stone cold pens. 
Then Shaw volleyballs one and Moyes having watched Davila and Southgate brings on Mark Noble to take it. Who gets it saved by De Gea. 

So United the Ronaldo and Lingard show at the moment. Be interesting to see if Lingard can keep it up through the season. 
One in a million
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Huge credit to Lingard for bouncing back and for the coach selecting him. After England's debacle involving freshly subbed players taking penalties, I couldn't believe that Noble took the pen.
Starting XI
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about 6 years
Those of you saying the midweek was because of Ole's substitutions, I'll be expecting you to post any second lauding the substitutions he made this morning - Matic to Lingard for the winner, can't argue with that decision making.

On a different note, I can't stand the new leniency on contact for fouls. Players need more protection, not less. Players getting kicked out of the game is a blight on the sport and the new interpretations encourage it. Another week where Atkinson proves he has no business refereeing at the top level and the VAR absolutely bottled it too.
First Team Squad
560
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almost 13 years
Nelfoos
Those of you saying the midweek was because of Ole's substitutions, I'll be expecting you to post any second lauding the substitutions he made this morning - Matic to Lingard for the winner, can't argue with that decision making.

On a different note, I can't stand the new leniency on contact for fouls. Players need more protection, not less. Players getting kicked out of the game is a blight on the sport and the new interpretations encourage it. Another week where Atkinson proves he has no business refereeing at the top level and the VAR absolutely bottled it too.
1000x on both points. Inspired substitutions. Even from Ole, how ballsy to put on Lingard again!

The leniency is ridiculous and pretty much gives referees an excuse not to make decisions. Other than the penalty decisions - we also had a big shout when a cross came in and a West Ham defender just grabbed Ronaldo by the shoulder. But because of "leniency" this just gets ignored.

We're heading down the same path as the A-league where you can just pull/tug/foul to prevent counter-attacks and the referees do nothing.

Only in England could you ever get a bunch of people sit around and declare that you know what, we want to disadvantage good footballers even more and increase sharkhousery.
Starting XI
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20 Legend
Nelfoos
Those of you saying the midweek was because of Ole's substitutions, I'll be expecting you to post any second lauding the substitutions he made this morning - Matic to Lingard for the winner, can't argue with that decision making.

On a different note, I can't stand the new leniency on contact for fouls. Players need more protection, not less. Players getting kicked out of the game is a blight on the sport and the new interpretations encourage it. Another week where Atkinson proves he has no business refereeing at the top level and the VAR absolutely bottled it too.
1000x on both points. Inspired substitutions. Even from Ole, how ballsy to put on Lingard again!

The leniency is ridiculous and pretty much gives referees an excuse not to make decisions. Other than the penalty decisions - we also had a big shout when a cross came in and a West Ham defender just grabbed Ronaldo by the shoulder. But because of "leniency" this just gets ignored.

We're heading down the same path as the A-league where you can just pull/tug/foul to prevent counter-attacks and the referees do nothing.

Only in England could you ever get a bunch of people sit around and declare that you know what, we want to disadvantage good footballers even more and increase sharkhousery.

I don't think it takes balls to sub Lingard on there. Ole knows him better than any of us and he wouldn't be playing if he didn't have Ole's trust. One error like that is never going to be enough for Ole to stop playing him, especially given how good he was the season before, the game before (and now the game after). When Jesse is high on confidence he's a fantastic player. His form issues went hand in hand with issues in his personal life & I am fully expecting to see West Ham Jesse for the rest of the season, injuries permitting. 

Really hoping he starts vs the Hammers on Wednesday as well.

Legend
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11K
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about 14 years
Nelfoos
Those of you saying the midweek was because of Ole's substitutions, I'll be expecting you to post any second lauding the substitutions he made this morning - Matic to Lingard for the winner, can't argue with that decision making.

On a different note, I can't stand the new leniency on contact for fouls. Players need more protection, not less. Players getting kicked out of the game is a blight on the sport and the new interpretations encourage it. Another week where Atkinson proves he has no business refereeing at the top level and the VAR absolutely bottled it too.

totally disagree with your last point, the "leniency" on contact ion the box is stopping the constant diving/going down easily which has blighted the game for decades. Hopefully players will re-learn to hold their feet instead of diving lie they been shot when contact is incidental. I havent seen one non penalty call which would count as players being kicked out of the game.
Starting XI
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about 6 years
theprof
Nelfoos
Those of you saying the midweek was because of Ole's substitutions, I'll be expecting you to post any second lauding the substitutions he made this morning - Matic to Lingard for the winner, can't argue with that decision making.

On a different note, I can't stand the new leniency on contact for fouls. Players need more protection, not less. Players getting kicked out of the game is a blight on the sport and the new interpretations encourage it. Another week where Atkinson proves he has no business refereeing at the top level and the VAR absolutely bottled it too.

totally disagree with your last point, the "leniency" on contact ion the box is stopping the constant diving/going down easily which has blighted the game for decades. Hopefully players will re-learn to hold their feet instead of diving lie they been shot when contact is incidental. I havent seen one non penalty call which would count as players being kicked out of the game.

For me it isn't about the diving, its about player safety - if you allow more contact you are actively encouraging players to injure other players. It also creates significantly more grey areas for referees and therefore more upset players/fans as there is much more being left to the ref to interpret.

It isn't about penalties, so I don't know why you would only focus on those, its about more contact being allowed in challenges all over the park.

Will be interesting to see statistics on injuries from contact in this season vs previous seasons when we get to the end - hopefully there's no increase but that seems incredibly unlikely to me.
WeeNix
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Nelfoos
Those of you saying the midweek was because of Ole's substitutions, I'll be expecting you to post any second lauding the substitutions he made this morning - Matic to Lingard for the winner, can't argue with that decision making.

On a different note, I can't stand the new leniency on contact for fouls. Players need more protection, not less. Players getting kicked out of the game is a blight on the sport and the new interpretations encourage it. Another week where Atkinson proves he has no business refereeing at the top level and the VAR absolutely bottled it too.

To be fair re: Ole's substitutions vs Young Boys.....he replaced Ronaldo with Jesse, and then Martial for Fred.....his subs made more sense this time, in terms of personnel. 

Team v West Ham midweek;
Henderson
Dalot
Telles
Bailly
Lindelof 
Matic
DvdB (subbed off early. Because he is Donny, and it must be so)
JL
Sancho
Elanga 
Martial

Heaton, AWB, Jones, McSauce, Mata, Shoretire, Greenwood 

But Ole will play Maguire and Bruno, I'm sure

Starting XI
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Rusty Dunks
Nelfoos
Those of you saying the midweek was because of Ole's substitutions, I'll be expecting you to post any second lauding the substitutions he made this morning - Matic to Lingard for the winner, can't argue with that decision making.

On a different note, I can't stand the new leniency on contact for fouls. Players need more protection, not less. Players getting kicked out of the game is a blight on the sport and the new interpretations encourage it. Another week where Atkinson proves he has no business refereeing at the top level and the VAR absolutely bottled it too.

To be fair re: Ole's substitutions vs Young Boys.....he replaced Ronaldo with Jesse, and then Martial for Fred.....his subs made more sense this time, in terms of personnel. 

Team v West Ham midweek;
Henderson
Dalot
Telles
Bailly
Lindelof 
Matic
DvdB (subbed off early. Because he is Donny, and it must be so)
JL
Sancho
Elanga 
Martial

Heaton, AWB, Jones, McSauce, Mata, Shoretire, Greenwood 

But Ole will play Maguire and Bruno, I'm sure


I'm sure he'll pick the players he thinks can get the job done. I'd be very disappointed if the side selected was as weak as the one you've suggested.
Legend
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Nelfoos
theprof
Nelfoos
Those of you saying the midweek was because of Ole's substitutions, I'll be expecting you to post any second lauding the substitutions he made this morning - Matic to Lingard for the winner, can't argue with that decision making.

On a different note, I can't stand the new leniency on contact for fouls. Players need more protection, not less. Players getting kicked out of the game is a blight on the sport and the new interpretations encourage it. Another week where Atkinson proves he has no business refereeing at the top level and the VAR absolutely bottled it too.

totally disagree with your last point, the "leniency" on contact ion the box is stopping the constant diving/going down easily which has blighted the game for decades. Hopefully players will re-learn to hold their feet instead of diving lie they been shot when contact is incidental. I havent seen one non penalty call which would count as players being kicked out of the game.

For me it isn't about the diving, its about player safety - if you allow more contact you are actively encouraging players to injure other players. It also creates significantly more grey areas for referees and therefore more upset players/fans as there is much more being left to the ref to interpret.

It isn't about penalties, so I don't know why you would only focus on those, its about more contact being allowed in challenges all over the park.

Will be interesting to see statistics on injuries from contact in this season vs previous seasons when we get to the end - hopefully there's no increase but that seems incredibly unlikely to me.

I focused on the pen calls cos that's where I've seen the leniency being applied and I applaud it. But to your point about fouls around the park, I'm not sure I would disagree with any of the ones I've seen. Yellows have been given as they should have been. You have to remember that football is and always has been a contact sport. there are rules in place to avoid reckless and dangerous tackles, raised arms, fists etc. Off the top of my head just this weekend, Barnes was yellowed for a very gentle palm to the face. Was definitely a foul and I suppose warranted a yellow. But if the ref was being lenient he would have kept the card in his pocket.
Legend
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Rusty Dunks
Nelfoos
theprof
or just shows how little Schmeichel understands about player management, and how two incidents in a game can affect the result and have nothing to do with a manager. Pretty sure Ole didnt ask for a red card, or for that ridiculous back pass. None of that would be coached and they are as they saying goes "coach-killers"

Not to say that Ole was perfect here, but every team is going to struggle down a man for 60 minutes. Ole's CL record is very poor and that needs to be turned around ASAP, but for me it is secondary to performances in the league.

Have to wonder what effect astroturf has as well, I find playing on astro vs grass very different, albeit at a much lower level, and I think that would heavily favour the team that plays on it regularly

I understand what you're saying about the CL being secondary to the PL, right now, and you make a good point about the turf. And United always used to lose to Basel in the Fergie days,  so losing to Young Boys is nothing new......but.....

Ole always reverts to type. He is very defensive. I've lost count of the number of times he gets United to sit deep to protect a 1-0 lead, only for it to go tits up. By making the changes he did, taking van de Beek off, going five at the back  (though Dalot on seems reasonable in theory)  just said to YB; "go on, have a go then". 

Which they did. 

Might as well have George Graham in charge

Graham won trophies
WeeNix
280
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over 6 years
Nelfoos
Rusty Dunks
Nelfoos
Those of you saying the midweek was because of Ole's substitutions, I'll be expecting you to post any second lauding the substitutions he made this morning - Matic to Lingard for the winner, can't argue with that decision making.

On a different note, I can't stand the new leniency on contact for fouls. Players need more protection, not less. Players getting kicked out of the game is a blight on the sport and the new interpretations encourage it. Another week where Atkinson proves he has no business refereeing at the top level and the VAR absolutely bottled it too.

To be fair re: Ole's substitutions vs Young Boys.....he replaced Ronaldo with Jesse, and then Martial for Fred.....his subs made more sense this time, in terms of personnel. 

Team v West Ham midweek;
Henderson
Dalot
Telles
Bailly
Lindelof 
Matic
DvdB (subbed off early. Because he is Donny, and it must be so)
JL
Sancho
Elanga 
Martial

Heaton, AWB, Jones, McSauce, Mata, Shoretire, Greenwood 

But Ole will play Maguire and Bruno, I'm sure


I'm sure he'll pick the players he thinks can get the job done. I'd be very disappointed if the side selected was as weak as the one you've suggested.

Strong enough to beat a weakened Hammers side.

Ole doesn't exactly have a great track record of squad management though 
WeeNix
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paulm
Rusty Dunks
Nelfoos
theprof
or just shows how little Schmeichel understands about player management, and how two incidents in a game can affect the result and have nothing to do with a manager. Pretty sure Ole didnt ask for a red card, or for that ridiculous back pass. None of that would be coached and they are as they saying goes "coach-killers"

Not to say that Ole was perfect here, but every team is going to struggle down a man for 60 minutes. Ole's CL record is very poor and that needs to be turned around ASAP, but for me it is secondary to performances in the league.

Have to wonder what effect astroturf has as well, I find playing on astro vs grass very different, albeit at a much lower level, and I think that would heavily favour the team that plays on it regularly

I understand what you're saying about the CL being secondary to the PL, right now, and you make a good point about the turf. And United always used to lose to Basel in the Fergie days,  so losing to Young Boys is nothing new......but.....

Ole always reverts to type. He is very defensive. I've lost count of the number of times he gets United to sit deep to protect a 1-0 lead, only for it to go tits up. By making the changes he did, taking van de Beek off, going five at the back  (though Dalot on seems reasonable in theory)  just said to YB; "go on, have a go then". 

Which they did. 

Might as well have George Graham in charge

Graham won trophies
 Touche!
Legend
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theprof
Nelfoos
theprof
Nelfoos
Those of you saying the midweek was because of Ole's substitutions, I'll be expecting you to post any second lauding the substitutions he made this morning - Matic to Lingard for the winner, can't argue with that decision making.

On a different note, I can't stand the new leniency on contact for fouls. Players need more protection, not less. Players getting kicked out of the game is a blight on the sport and the new interpretations encourage it. Another week where Atkinson proves he has no business refereeing at the top level and the VAR absolutely bottled it too.

totally disagree with your last point, the "leniency" on contact ion the box is stopping the constant diving/going down easily which has blighted the game for decades. Hopefully players will re-learn to hold their feet instead of diving lie they been shot when contact is incidental. I havent seen one non penalty call which would count as players being kicked out of the game.

For me it isn't about the diving, its about player safety - if you allow more contact you are actively encouraging players to injure other players. It also creates significantly more grey areas for referees and therefore more upset players/fans as there is much more being left to the ref to interpret.

It isn't about penalties, so I don't know why you would only focus on those, its about more contact being allowed in challenges all over the park.

Will be interesting to see statistics on injuries from contact in this season vs previous seasons when we get to the end - hopefully there's no increase but that seems incredibly unlikely to me.

I focused on the pen calls cos that's where I've seen the leniency being applied and I applaud it. But to your point about fouls around the park, I'm not sure I would disagree with any of the ones I've seen. Yellows have been given as they should have been. You have to remember that football is and always has been a contact sport. there are rules in place to avoid reckless and dangerous tackles, raised arms, fists etc. Off the top of my head just this weekend, Barnes was yellowed for a very gentle palm to the face. Was definitely a foul and I suppose warranted a yellow. But if the ref was being lenient he would have kept the card in his pocket.

Yeh, yeh ref and Arsenal in general won no fans. Who was their prick defender who after the pen had been overturned, fairly,  because the keeper managed to get the faintest sliver on the ball mimed a dive? 
I wonder if this is just that the refs have discussed not being overawed by Ronaldo and this extends to not giving him anything. 
Legend
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haha 
From what I've heard during the commentary of the early games there has been a general guidance given to the refs to look at contact everywhere very carefully and if it is incidental let play go on.
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Some stats on Ole's substitutions last season compared to the rest of the league, for anyone interested.

OjOqhaA.jpg 100.32 KB
WeeNix
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Nelfoos
Some stats on Ole's substitutions last season compared to the rest of the league, for anyone interested.

OjOqhaA.jpg 100.32 KB

Never would have guessed that! And yet, Ole's substitution tactics still doesn't pass the sniff test
Starting XI
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Rusty Dunks
Nelfoos
Some stats on Ole's substitutions last season compared to the rest of the league, for anyone interested.

OjOqhaA.jpg 100.32 KB

Never would have guessed that! And yet, Ole's substitution tactics still doesn't pass the sniff test

Maybe your nose is the problem?

WeeNix
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Nelfoos
Rusty Dunks
Nelfoos
Some stats on Ole's substitutions last season compared to the rest of the league, for anyone interested.

OjOqhaA.jpg 100.32 KB

Never would have guessed that! And yet, Ole's substitution tactics still doesn't pass the sniff test

Maybe your nose is the problem?



Possibly, but then so would 99% of others. 
Starting XI
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Rusty Dunks
Nelfoos
Rusty Dunks
Nelfoos
Some stats on Ole's substitutions last season compared to the rest of the league, for anyone interested.

OjOqhaA.jpg 100.32 KB

Never would have guessed that! And yet, Ole's substitution tactics still doesn't pass the sniff test

Maybe your nose is the problem?



Possibly, but then so would 99% of others. 
I don't think 99% of United fans have issues with his subs.

I have zero issue with him putting on attacking players to try to beat Young Boys when down a man and I'm quite frankly astounded that other United fans do take issue with that - if you think we should be trying to hold on to a draw with them then you're welcome to, but that isn't the United way.

I'm not saying his subs are perfect in every instance, but it certainly isn't one of his weaknesses as a manager.

You can disagree all you want, but the stats pretty clearly show that he makes good substitutions - any disagreement with that is just stubbornness & I'm gonna call that out when I see it.

WeeNix
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I can't argue the stats, but it's widely acknowledged/perceived that Ole has a serious weakness around tactical use of substitutions. Maybe it's that he constantly doesn't make a sub until very late in the game that is clouding the issue.

Bringing on attacking players isn't the issue - it was the tactical thought behind it that pretty much every pundit I've heard has highlighted (and you can take a pundit with a grain of salt.....). 

But like I say, it's hard to argue with the numbers. 
Starting XI
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Rusty Dunks
I can't argue the stats, but it's widely acknowledged/perceived that Ole has a serious weakness around tactical use of substitutions. Maybe it's that he constantly doesn't make a sub until very late in the game that is clouding the issue.

Bringing on attacking players isn't the issue - it was the tactical thought behind it that pretty much every pundit I've heard (and you can take a pundit with a grain of salt.....). 

But like I say, it's hard to argue with the numbers. 
That's my issue - there's a perception that that is the case, but its a completely unfounded one. Look at the sheer number of games where we fall behind, then come back. That alone shows he adjusts well during matches through sub & tactics changes. The far larger issue for me with Ole's management is why we are such consistently slow starters & our performances in Europe and the narrative should be directed there, if anywhere.

I don't think there's any point listening to TV & print pundits. They aren't there to say sensible or true things, their job exists to purely create drama, controversy & clicks - a grain of salt isn't near enough. Criticising United/Ole (among many other topics) makes for good engagement numbers so they do it whenever possible - fans shouldn't be naive enough to actually base their opinions on that twaddle.

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I find the loudest critics are those who watch 5 minute highlights of City/Liverpool/PSG/Bayern (which ever of the big team won by the most goals that week) and think that's normal and for some reason expect perfect and beautiful football every week.

There's just a total disconnect from some people's expectations (of even a championship winning team) and the realities of football. Even when Liverpool were trouncing everyone they had their fair share of games where they crossed (and failed) 25 times only to sneak home with VVD header from a corner.

I find it ironic that City to Southampton this weekend after having 64% possession and 1 shot on target. For some reason Pep is immune to criticism and the blame is aimed at the players.
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The state of this game is atrocious.

Mark Noble is running around, barely attempting to play football and grabbing everyone's shirt - I think he's grabbed every single players shirt who he's gone near.

Including a very clear and obvious penalty on Lingard that's not given.

And Matic, after being pushed off the ball, has knee someone in the plums. 

How about we just start calling fouls again???
Legend
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missed the first half, but so far it doesnt look like Man U eve want to be there. Lots of sad faces and head shaking on the bench.

scrolled back to see the goal and peno shout,
can see why you'd want it, certainly a shirt grab by Noble in the box, 50/50 call for mine and under the current rulings it wasnt a clear reason for a player to go to ground like he did.
Starting XI
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That was a good game to watch, enjoyed the openness of it, but pity about the result - knew this would happen, which is why I didn't want a completely B team playing. Thought DVB and Lingard were ok, glad to see DVB showing he can play in the pivot. 

Hope I never see Martial play for United ever again.  Every time he got the ball he took 3 touches to get it under control, had zero intensity and killed any momentum we had. Was 10v11 out there because of him. Telles was also pretty damn poor, but a bit more leeway for him given its his first game back from injury.

Noble on Lingard is a pen last season, but under the new interpretations that was never gonna be called - he could easily have stayed up if he wanted to as well. Matic is a very lucky boy, considering the attempted nutshot & the shin high studs on Lanzini.
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Nelfoos - re the penalty I think that's a massive cop out. Noble has been beaten and fallen to the ground and held Jesse back. Regardless of whether it's enough to literally pull him to the ground he has purposely impeded him while not attempting to play the football. If that's not a penalty under new interpretations then let me know so I can stop watching.

Players getting away with contact when they're genuinely attempting to play football is one thing. Cynically grabbing shirts because you've been done is not acceptable.

Agreed about Martial. The total contrast between him and Greenwood spoke volumes.
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I mean if this isn't a foul anymore then no Premier League defender should ever be beaten again.
noble-cheat.jpeg 120.36 KB
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20 Legend
Nelfoos - re the penalty I think that's a massive cop out. Noble has been beaten and fallen to the ground and held Jesse back. Regardless of whether it's enough to literally pull him to the ground he has purposely impeded him while not attempting to play the football. If that's not a penalty under new interpretations then let me know so I can stop watching.

Players getting away with contact when they're genuinely attempting to play football is one thing. Cynically grabbing shirts because you've been done is not acceptable.

Agreed about Martial. The total contrast between him and Greenwood spoke volumes.

I also hate the new interpretations (you can see that not much further up this thread), but Jesse has gone to ground there when he doesn't need to, and that is now considered play on, as far as I am aware. Happy to be corrected on the new interpretations if anyone has a source though.

I completely agree that it should be a penalty - and maybe VAR would've agreed if the cup had them

Source here with some Mike Reilly quotes - I've pulled the bits I think apply here.

"...with Riley saying "contact on its own is only part of what the referee should look for; consider consequence and the motivation of the player as well."

What does this mean? The principles established are:
- The referee should look for contact and establish clear contact
- Ask if that contact by the defender has a consequence
- Has the attacker used that contact to try and win a foul or penalty?
- Contact alone is not sufficient

This means that if an attacker goes to ground, the manner in which he goes to ground has to match the contact from the defender. So an attacker throwing himself to the ground because of minimal contact should no longer be a penalty."

Reaching out and grabbing someone's shirt like should be a penalty every day of the week. The issue is that the head of the referees, somehow, doesn't agree with that. Hopefully we'll see some clarification out of the FA, but I think that's unlikely. All we can hope for is, much like many other interpretation changes, this gets binned over the course of the season as everyone realises just how short-sighted it is.

Legend
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Even the commentators talked about the pen shout, last season it would have been called. This year, however there is a new directive for the refs to look at the contact and decide if a player could have held his ground. Lingard in this instance probably should have made more of an effort to stay on his feet, probably would have earned a pen if he had cos I think the drag on the shirt would have effected any shot he was about to take. The fact that he has thrown his arms in the air and made a "drama" out of it has made the ref reconsider any contact that Noble has made.
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theprof
Even the commentators talked about the pen shout, last season it would have been called. This year, however there is a new directive for the refs to look at the contact and decide if a player could have held his ground. Lingard in this instance probably should have made more of an effort to stay on his feet, probably would have earned a pen if he had cos I think the drag on the shirt would have effected any shot he was about to take. The fact that he has thrown his arms in the air and made a "drama" out of it has made the ref reconsider any contact that Noble has made.
And this is exactly why I think the new interpretations are a crock of shark
Legend
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Nelfoos
theprof
Even the commentators talked about the pen shout, last season it would have been called. This year, however there is a new directive for the refs to look at the contact and decide if a player could have held his ground. Lingard in this instance probably should have made more of an effort to stay on his feet, probably would have earned a pen if he had cos I think the drag on the shirt would have effected any shot he was about to take. The fact that he has thrown his arms in the air and made a "drama" out of it has made the ref reconsider any contact that Noble has made.
And this is exactly why I think the new interpretations are a crock of shark

maybe they are maybe they are not. The fact is the directives exist and I expect the players, coaches etc all knew about them before the season started.
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theprof
Nelfoos
theprof
Even the commentators talked about the pen shout, last season it would have been called. This year, however there is a new directive for the refs to look at the contact and decide if a player could have held his ground. Lingard in this instance probably should have made more of an effort to stay on his feet, probably would have earned a pen if he had cos I think the drag on the shirt would have effected any shot he was about to take. The fact that he has thrown his arms in the air and made a "drama" out of it has made the ref reconsider any contact that Noble has made.
And this is exactly why I think the new interpretations are a crock of shark

maybe they are maybe they are not. The fact is the directives exist and I expect the players, coaches etc all knew about them before the season started.

They do, but I don't want to be a football fan in a world where Mark Noble grabbing Lingard like that isn't a penalty.

Never have I felt closer to the "Games gone" crowd.
Legend
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about 14 years
I kind of agree with you - I dont want to see cynical fouls getting let go. But then I'm sick to death of good games being ruined by strikers diving in the box at the slightest hit of contact just to win a penalty. This is a push to get rid of the diving then I'm all for it. Maybe once players quit that kind of shark the refs will look for more of a middle ground.
WeeNix
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620
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over 6 years
Nelfoos
That was a good game to watch, enjoyed the openness of it, but pity about the result - knew this would happen, which is why I didn't want a completely B team playing. Thought DVB and Lingard were ok, glad to see DVB showing he can play in the pivot. 

Hope I never see Martial play for United ever again.  Every time he got the ball he took 3 touches to get it under control, had zero intensity and killed any momentum we had. Was 10v11 out there because of him. Telles was also pretty damn poor, but a bit more leeway for him given its his first game back from injury.

Noble on Lingard is a pen last season, but under the new interpretations that was never gonna be called - he could easily have stayed up if he wanted to as well. Matic is a very lucky boy, considering the attempted nutshot & the shin high studs on Lanzini.

Very good points. 

To be fair to the Hammers about us fielding a B team, so did West Ham. They made 10 changes. 
First Team Squad
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almost 13 years
Well then the law is down right stupid. Regardless whether Lingard could have stayed on his feet or not he was prevented from reaching a ball he otherwise would have because someone held his shirt.

It's very easy to stress test this: no shirt pull makes some of the most coordinated people on earth spontaneously fall over. Therefore, shirt pulling is now part of the game.
Legend
1.9K
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11K
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about 14 years
20 Legend
Well then the law is down right stupid. Regardless whether Lingard could have stayed on his feet or not he was prevented from reaching a ball he otherwise would have because someone held his shirt.

It's very easy to stress test this: no shirt pull makes some of the most coordinated people on earth spontaneously fall over. Therefore, shirt pulling is now part of the game.

shirt/shorts pulling has always been "part of the game" - most if the time it doesnt draw a foul. Football is a contact sport, it's not rugby but there is always going to be some form of contact. Refs allowing some contact is better for the game as it discourages the "cheating/diving" which has ruined the game.
First Team Squad
560
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1.4K
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almost 13 years
theprof
20 Legend
Well then the law is down right stupid. Regardless whether Lingard could have stayed on his feet or not he was prevented from reaching a ball he otherwise would have because someone held his shirt.

It's very easy to stress test this: no shirt pull makes some of the most coordinated people on earth spontaneously fall over. Therefore, shirt pulling is now part of the game.

shirt/shorts pulling has always been "part of the game" - most if the time it doesnt draw a foul. Football is a contact sport, it's not rugby but there is always going to be some form of contact. Refs allowing some contact is better for the game as it discourages the "cheating/diving" which has ruined the game.
You're not seriously claiming that what Noble did is part of the game? If it is, then no defender should ever be beaten ever again. Just grab the attacker, easy.

Ironically, Noble holding Lingard back (if Lingard is chasing a ball) is a foul in Rugby as well.

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