(The not-so-temporary quite-official) Gooner Thread

Awesome tie, nice to be back playing quality as that usually means the big boys come out. Would be amazed if we managed another R16 knock out like recent seasons with big ass margins but it sure won't be easy.

Cup final in the morning. Done well in a few of those recently at Wembley. Massive effort needed to beat City though.

May well only be the League Cup but fudge it.

COYG.

WTF was that from Mustafi?

Awful defending for that goal. Absolutely horrendous.

Haven't even looked like scoring either.

yeah we’re offering nothing at all.

Dogsh*t.

City just in a far better space at the moment, playing like a team.

We haven't had a settled formation or lineup all season. In fact we've pretty much replenished our squad during this season with the old guard all going out of our match day team since the season began (Giroud, Walcott, Sanchez, Coquelin, Mertesacker etc).

Again you'd have to say poor planning from head office, as seems to be our theme. Man City and other teams had their squads all sorted when the year kicked off, and have only supplemented in January, rather than turned over. 

Despite that, so disappointing for Mustafi to lose concentration and make a c*ck-up like that. On all the replays he just dawdled and let Aguero sit behind him like that, wasn't expecting a keeper ball to cause him that sort of hassle. All about concentration, which we always seem to lack defensively. 

EPL results didn't suit us either this weekend, we're really cut adrift in 6th now. 

You would have to say, even if he managed a Europa League victory somehow, Wenger just cannot continue next season. The malaise is too much. Our squad personnel keeps improving, but the results don't. That's on Arsene. 

The defending by Mustafi was disgusting for a senior professional. Obviously we know defending is not coached at the club but standing goalside of your opponent is one of the first things you learn as a kid. As a keeper myself pretty much every instruction I shout across 90 minutes will include the word "goalside" in it.

Haven't bothered to read it but what was Wenger's excuse this time?

Made the mistake of googling and I see he was complaining about an offside goal and not enough injury time added. No responsibility or accountability as usual.

We were crap. No issues with the first goal. You could maybe make an argument about Sane interfering with the keepers view from an offside goal but given it's comporable to Ramsey's involvement with Alexis against Chelsea in the FA Cup final we've got nothing, final goal was just weak defending. All in all it's on us.

Auba should have opened the scoring when he made Bravo look like a hero with a double save. The reality is that double save was harder to not make when the ball was straight at him.

Roll on A/C Milan!

In regards to the first goal, yes Mustafi is on the wrong side, but he was obviously tracking back. Surely winning that header is Kosc's problem.

How so? Aguero was playing through the middle, Mustafi was marking down the middle, Chambers and Koscielny were either side trying to deal with the threat of Mane and De Bruyne. Could they have been closer? Yes. Should a 1.84m CB get up and win a ball even with a subtle nudge from a 1.75m ST? Absolutely.

Mustafi is a nightmare. He looks absolutely clueless half the time. How does he get picked for Germany?

Really? Mustafi is back tracking from probably a higher position for the corner. Kosc (he's the one at the top of the screen yeah?) needs to read the danger.

He had plenty of time to get goalside, but didn't. He seemed more interested in telling the other CBs where to go, and got caught out. 

Having said that, I just watched a few replays after I saw your comment, and you've got a point about Koscielny. He saw what was coming and didn't react quick enough.

Also, I realise Mustafi was on the wrong side, but why exactly is it ok for Aguero to push him so that he misses his header? Do the laws of the game say that Aguero is the rightful holder of possession because he's goal side or something? I'm actually a bit perplexed about it. The only time I see it as ok that a player physically stops another getting the ball is if you're clearly in possession, so you can use your body to protect your space and the ball. 

In this sitaution, do we assume that Aguero is the rightful holder of possession because of his location compared to Mustafi? Lets face it, if he hadn't have shunted Mustafi, he wouldn't have got the ball, and you can see in one particular angle that he looks at Mustafi, lines him up, and gives him a nudge.

Not a hard nudge, and you'd expect Mustafi to be a bit stronger, but it does seem a little off that you're allowed to do that. He didn't just hold his ground, it was a deliberate ploy to gain possession.

Regardless, we were poor, and I don't think we would have won even if we didn't concede that goal, but I'm interested to know. Obviously VAR upheld the decision, so there must be a reason?

Aguero's movement is always away from Mustafi. I initially thought the same, watch a replay and keep an eye on Aguero's feet, he's always moving away from Mustafi. In fact if anyone fouled anyone Mustafi probably fouled Aguero.

Yes that's a good point.

I guess what we are saying here is that there are certain situations where you are allowed to push someone in order to gain possession of the ball. Because it's clearly calculated - there is one replay where you see him eye up Mustafi's position, drop his shoulder, and give him a shunt. 

That doesn't sit right with me, but at the same time, it was poor defending to allow it to happen, so I don't feel aggrieved at all. Mustafi and the other defenders need to learn from that situation. 

On the other hand, I look back at the time Alonso scored against us for Chelsea last season, when he jumped with his elbow and knocked out Bellerin pretty viciously in the process, and I think yea, that one was so obviously a bad foul, a red card even, and no one even debated it. The commentators even said Bellerin "needed to be stronger there". Ridiculous. 

Jack on Instagram decried off side goals, sending offs, and the foul on Mustafi. If that's the mood of the squad after that I highly doubt their ability to win big games.

Fully agree. Yes there were contentious calls but if that's what the players are focusing on rather than their own shortcomings then something is badly wrong.

It all stems from the top. Like I said, there is no responsibility and no accountability at the club. It's always external factors and someone else's fault.

I don't like any of our players on social media tbh. Apart from Bellerin who told those AFTV fudgewits to fudge off, they all spout the same nonsense over and over.

We weren't good enough. We know the fans are hurting. We are sorry we let you down. We need to work on this. We will try harder next time.

All bollocks I'm afraid.

Bellerin is a ledge though. So glad he told those nonces exactly what he thought of them.

Even if he has a point with some of it, the malaise has gone so far now in the last 2-3 seasons that we can't take it seriously any longer. The players have not performed well enough to be able to use these excuses. It sounds silly but you have to earn it. 

This from Johnny Nicholson was good: 

"It’s reached such a ridiculous situation that if Arsenal play well and beat City in the upcoming game on Thursday, it will only cast a worse light on the Arsenal players for doing it this time, but not last time. In other words, every game is now a lose-lose for the players. It is an inescapable spiral of negativity."

This is why the fans are just zombies now. Even if we play well and win well, which we sometimes do, even in big games, there are plenty of other pathetic showings that just demean it, and show that we just can't do it week in week out. 

A loss in a cup final to Man City is not really an issue by itself, they've beaten many good teams by such a margin, but is just another straw breaking the camel's back. 

Lets face it, the camel is paralysed now, he's never getting up. 

Wenger cannot manage this team next season. He just can't. We need to freshen up now, it's critical. We should have done it after 2015/16 in my opinion, that was the time, Wenger missed his chance that season to win one more league, we bloody well should've too you know. 

Sometimes the "grass is greener" argument is used about Wenger going, and back in the period 2010 - 2014 or so that was justified to some extent. But now we don't have Champions League, we almost certainly won't have it next season, and it's also been shown that you don't need it to attract players in England like you once did (proven by ManU, by Liverpool in past years, and even us with the purchases of Lacazette and Aubameyang). There was never a better time to take the plunge and move on, than right now. 

Why even follow players on social media? Footballers are car salesmen who managed to be crazy enough to devote every spare moment of their youth to practising kicking a ball at a wall. I can't imagine any of them actually saying anything interesting and if they do it gets picked up by news outlets.

News online suggests Wenger could actually be done at the end of the season. Arseblog reporting that something is going on behind the scenes, and now there's a flurry of news stories about potential successors. 

It's all click bait. They still extended him after last season. He not leaving until he's carried out in a box. And even then he'll still have to be dragged out like a United Airlines passenger.

Seen lots of reports on this, including a shortlist for the next man in.

One can only hope there's some substance behind the rumours.

Arseblog seems to think there is and he's usually pretty on the money with this sort of thing. 

http://news.arseblog.com/2018/02/arsenal-brief-pre...

Most names given appear to be reasonably consistent across the major publications. I've seen;

Joachim Low (Germany)

Brendan Rodgers (Celtic)

Leonardo Jardim (Monaco)

Mikel Arteta (Man City Assistant)

Massimo Allegri (Juventus)

Thierry Henry (Greatest of all time + Belgium Assistant)

Without looking it up, have we ever lost a cup final by more than one goal? I can't seem to think of an occasion.

Joachim Low (Germany) - interested, unsure of club record though.

Brendan Rodgers (Celtic) - nope.

Leonardo Jardim (Monaco) - interested, like his experience finding gems like Lemar and co

Mikel Arteta (Man City Assistant) - too soon, would have him at some point

Massimo Allegri (Juventus) - interested,

Thierry Henry (Greatest of all time + Belgium Assistant) - too soon, would have him as an assitant manager now though

I don't think it's too soon for Henry or Arteta at all. 

For one, they might actually motivate and inspire the players, something Wenger clearly isn't doing anymore.

Just because they are seen as inexperienced or unproven or aren't some sort of tactical genius, doesn't mean they couldn't come in and have an immediate positive impact on this playing group.

Fair play Buffy, but wouldn't it be prudent to bring them in alongside an established manager who is already competing at the top table from a managerial perspective? Even if we had Arteta, Henry, and Jens working alongside a Allegri we'd be looking goood!

I'd be absolutely fine with that as well. In fact that would be superb!

Was more suggesting that if they were given the top job it wouldn't be the end of the world just because they are unproven. Zidane had done nothing before he started at Madrid. He won back to back CL titles, and a La Liga. 

Granted they have one of the best squads in world football, and granted they have been shark in the league this season, but Zidane clearly got a reaction out of them. I wouldn't describe him as anything near a tactical mastermind , but one thing he did is get the players going again, get them motivated, get them to go out there and really express themselves, and play to their full potential. 

These are all things a manager of a club should be required to do, not just come up with a formation for Zonal Marking to wank over. The players don't look anywhere near motivated at all, particularly evident whenever we play away from home now.

If it was my choice I would go with Ancelotti, with Henry as the assistant, with a view to him taking over after Ancelotti is done. 

He's a proven manager, he basically wins everywhere he goes, he should be able to come in and make this group more successful. 

Meanwhile in the background, we can adjust to life without Wenger and handling all the other things he did which wouldn't be in Ancelotti's role profile. After a year or two we'd have all that sorted, and would be ready to go with Henry as Manager. 

Having said all that, Buffon has a point. Look at Real Madrid last year with Zidane. Look at Guardiola when he took over Barcelona. It can work. Definitely risky though. 

Rodgers would be the most daft appointment. I respect what he can do with a team on the pitch, but he's just a nightmare off it, nobody really respects him with all the David Brent style carry-on. With positive fan engagement just about being Arsenal's number one problem, to appoint Rodgers would be absolute madness. The minute he has the most minor of tough patches, his employment would instantly become untenable with the fans. Almost any other managerial appointment would get more patience from the fans than Rodgers. 

That would be my preference too. Club is in such a mess that we need a highly experienced proven manager in the short term to manage the transition so Ancelotti for 2 or 3 seasons would be ideal with someone like Arteta or Henry under him with a view to them eventually taking over. Think the situation is too desperate to appoint someone who has never been a manager before at this stage, though I feel like Arteta would eventually be a great one.

Ancelotti or Allegri would be great. I'd still pick up the phone to Simeone and do everything to get him across. On the mention of Zidane, another loss for them this morning and they are almost back to 4th in La Liga, he could also be out of a job in the next few months. Currently, I'd almost take anyone - with the resources and funds we have as a club I don't think any of us would do a worse job than Wenger is right now.

Either way, the new manager has ALOT of work in front of them given where we are right now however installing some desire and discipline in the players would instantly make a big improvement.

Gooner 4 Life, the loss on the weekend was our worst ever loss in a cup final - performance wise too.

This thread/club makes me sad. What I hoped wouldn't happen is happening... hopefully the club show some backbone and front foot it; announce AW will go at the end of the season and we can get on with sorting our future (I know, who am I kidding).

I'm not too concerned on who it is. As long as it isn't Brendan Rogers, or a recent former player (not straight after AW at least).

I agree. If Wenger is going to go, for god's sake don't wait until after his last game to tell us. Let us celebrate him at least, and give the players something to motivate the motherf*ckers. Seeing Wenger off, playing for their place under a new Manager, it would be far better this way. 

And also let the fans cheer Wenger off. If we aren't told, then there will be booing and complaining right up until his last game, he doesn't deserve to finish like that. 

I'd love to see him go to PSG. Give him a new challenge and a budget with the mandate to spend big and win the ECL. Do that and retire.

New manager speculation? Don't do this to me, I've been burnt by this dream too many times. 

If we really want to get an ex-player without much experience in to manage what would be, potentially, the most difficult managerial transition in the history of world football, then why not Viera? He actually has some experience. Talks of Arteta or Henry are fanciful at best.