This whole racism thing

59 replies · 5,479 views
about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ShowUsYaNix wrote:
Downey26 wrote:


Do you think there are any truly racist players playing at the top level?
I may be naive but i find it hard to imagine there are many proper racists with a deep seeded hatred of a whole other race of people playing at the top level.
It seems like it would be extremely diffecult to hide that sort of thing day in day out with the make up of so many top teams these days.
 
 


Without meaning to cause offence, I think this is a little naive. I would agree that there would be few "proper racists", as you call them. But racism extends far beyond overt displays of deep seeded hatred.

IMO, there are a lot of people who genuinely claim to not be racist, but still hold some degree of prejudice. Often it will come through in racist jokes or remarks, which although contextual are actually believed to some degree. Those same people will sometimes use a defence such as "but I have black friends" which to be honest is no defence at all. I'm not saying that anyone who makes jokes or says they have black friends is a racist, but sometimes that is the case.

Often it is also the fact that such attitudes are ingrained, so although someone may be far less racist than the preceding generation, racist attitudes linger to some extent.

All of these things mean that people can most definitely "hide that sort of thing" because the fact is that there are others that hold the same view.

Unfortunately with ingrained attitudes like this it is hard to change anything in a hurry.


 
Yes i tend to agree with what you've said here. Was discussing this at work today, though not in the sporting context, were discussing the movie "The Help" (which is pretty good). The fact that these sorts of attitudes were ingrained through generations was why we didnt see things changing dramatically in the near future.
 
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Junior82 wrote:
Downey26 wrote:


Do you think there are any truly racist players playing at the top level?
I may be naive but i find it hard to imagine there are many proper racists with a deep seeded hatred of a whole other race of people playing at the top level.
It seems like it would be extremely diffecult to hide that sort of thing day in day out with the make up of so many top teams these days.
 
 


Could you please define what a proper racist is? That way I can tell them apart from the fake racists (or the improper ones).

 
Yea my bad, maybe not the best choice of words.
 
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I was having some thoughts about the whole handshake thing, and this seemed as decent a place as any to post it. 
 
First of all, let me state that I think that Suarez has been in the wrong all across this situation, and it has been handled terribly by both him and Liverpool Football Club.  But the fact of the matter is that Suarez feels he is in the right, and he blames Evra for the situation he is in.  There has been a massive amount of noise over here about what a disgrace Suarez is for not shaking his hand, and even a number of right minded Liverpool fans have expressed their distain for him.  If he feels he is in the right, though, why should he?
 
Wayne Bridge didn't shake John Terry's hand a couple of seasons ago, and we all thought it was hilarious.  Why is this any different?  Is it because we felt that Bridge was in the right, and we think that Suarez is in the wrong?  If so, who makes these decisions? 
 
Also, who else can legitimately refuse to shake someone's hand and not be pillored for it?  If a player had his leg broken by another player (Ramsey and Shawcross), could he refuse and it would be ok?  What if 1 player stole another players haircut or sleeve tatoo design?
 
The bottom line for me is that one millionaire didn't shake the hand of another millionaire - big whoop - but this is a massive story. 

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
The bottom line for me is that one self-absorbed, immature millionaire didn't shake the hand of another self-absorbed, immature millionaire
 
Fixed.
 
Perhaps the answer to the hand shake conundrum is that players are allowed to substitute a slap in the face for a handshake if they feel they have been wronged by the other player and wish to challenge him to a dual.
 

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:

Also, who else can legitimately refuse to shake someone's hand and not be pillored for it?� If a player had his leg broken by another player (Ramsey and Shawcross), could he refuse and it would be ok?� What if 1 player stole another players haircut or sleeve tatoo design?


I think where it gets a bit ridiculous is if the guy who broke the others leg refused to shake hands because the victim complained to the FA.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
I was having some thoughts about the whole handshake thing, and this seemed as decent a place as any to post it. 
 
First of all, let me state that I think that Suarez has been in the wrong all across this situation, and it has been handled terribly by both him and Liverpool Football Club.  But the fact of the matter is that Suarez feels he is in the right, and he blames Evra for the situation he is in.  There has been a massive amount of noise over here about what a disgrace Suarez is for not shaking his hand, and even a number of right minded Liverpool fans have expressed their distain for him.  If he feels he is in the right, though, why should he?
 
Wayne Bridge didn't shake John Terry's hand a couple of seasons ago, and we all thought it was hilarious.  Why is this any different?  Is it because we felt that Bridge was in the right, and we think that Suarez is in the wrong?  If so, who makes these decisions? 
 
Also, who else can legitimately refuse to shake someone's hand and not be pillored for it?  If a player had his leg broken by another player (Ramsey and Shawcross), could he refuse and it would be ok?  What if 1 player stole another players haircut or sleeve tatoo design?
 
The bottom line for me is that one millionaire didn't shake the hand of another millionaire - big whoop - but this is a massive story. 
 
Great post. I think you've highlighted a key point- Suarez believes he is innocent and why should he shake the hand of someone who, he believes, has deliberately lied from the off and tarnished his career.
 
Not often I agree with Gary Neville, but he said something similar. Why should they have to shake hands? They don't like each other. This is the real deal. And big deal.
 
Am I right in saying the handshake thing was called off in the QPR vs Chelsea game? Or am I being delusional (again)?
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah the handshake was called off there, but those were somewhat different circumstances. Assuming the allegations are true, I'd be pretty fired up if I was Ferdinand, knowing that John Terry is allowed to keep playing while the charges are pending, even though he clearly committed the crime. I know that's making a large assumption, but nevertheless, it creates an obviously hostile atmosphere.

Here things were slightly different because both players had said that they were going to shake hands, and there was every indication that the matter was going to be put to bed. Maybe even one-eyed fans would admit that even if Suarez genuinely was innocent, he shouldn't have said that he was going to shake Evra's hand, because that clearly just inflamed the situation even more. Had he maintained his innocence and said that he wasn't going to shake hands, the handshake would most likely have been called off.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ShowUsYaNix wrote:
Maybe even one-eyed fans would admit that even if Suarez genuinely was innocent, he shouldn't have said that he was going to shake Evra's hand, because that clearly just inflamed the situation even more. Had he maintained his innocence and said that he wasn't going to shake hands, the handshake would most likely have been called off.
 
I do agree with this.
 
Its possible that Suarez intended to but, in the heat of the moment, when he saw that smug prick's face and saw him lower his hand, thought "f**k this c**t" and walked past him.
 
But yeah, as it was a probably premeditated thing, he should have just told Kenny and it could have all been averted.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Even if he said that he wasn't going to shake his hand and they called off the handshake (to prevent the inevitable riot that will happen when one millionaire doesn't shake the hand of another millionaire) would that have been acceptable?  And what happens in a couple of weeks at the Wigan vs Villa game when N'Zogbia refuses to shake Calderwood's hand before the game because he still thinks he cheated in a game of Backgammon when they were rooming together on a Wigan away trip in 2009?  Would we be happy to call off the handshake then or just deal with the riot?
 
My point is that Bridge refused to shake Terry's hand and that was acceptable.  Why is this different?  Answer = we think that Bridge was justified and we think that Suarez isn't.  Now this is correct, but it sets a dangerous precedent as quite often the "we" that make that decision is the press.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Did anyone else notice that Ferdinand refused to shake hands with Suarez after the Evra incident?
Suarez and Evra are both arrogant, self-centered, petulant little sh*ts and deserve any bad press and/or suspensions they get. Suarez needs sending back to Sth America and Evra can piss off back to France, They're ruining the English game. Terry can have a 3-4 year suspension.

Its no longer a problem.

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Toffeeman wrote:
Did anyone else notice that Ferdinand refused to shake hands with Suarez after the Evra incident?
Suarez and Evra are both arrogant, self-centered, petulant little sh*ts and deserve any bad press and/or suspensions they get. Suarez needs sending back to Sth America and Evra can piss off back to France, They're ruining the English game. Terry can have a 3-4 year suspension.
 
What's the hallowed English game you have in mind?  Everton and Stoke engaging in warm handshakes, kicking the sh*t out of each other for 90 minutes, then having a spot of manly banter about how Johnny Foreigner couldn't take that kind of licking?
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
167. According to the experts, the Spanish word "negro" cannot simply be translated as
"nigger". Whereas "nigger" refers exclusively to a person with dark skin, "negro" can be
used both as a noun ("a black") and as an adjective; as an adjective it might be used to refer
to a person ("un hombre negro" [a black man]) but equally to an object ("una caja negra" [a
black box]).

168. It is important to grasp that the word "negro" is ambiguous in all countries and regions of
Latin America.

169. In Uruguay and other areas of Latin America, some people who self-identify as black
object to the use of the word "negro" as a term of address, as they say it highlights skin
colour when this should be irrelevant; they point out that the term "blanco" is rarely used this way.

172. The word "negro" is by no means, however, always used offensively. The term can also be
used as a friendly form of address to someone seen as somewhat brown-skinned or even
just black-haired. It may be used affectionately between man and wife, or
girlfriend/boyfriend, it may be used as a nickname in everyday speech, it may be used to
identify in neutral and descriptive fashion someone of dark skin; several famous people in
Uruguay are known as "el negro/la negra such-and-such".

173. "Negro" can be used in the same way that other words referring to physical characteristics
are used as descriptors for particular individuals, eg "el flaco" [the thin one/beanpole] or
"el gordo" [the fat one/fatso]; these words can also be used without the article, eg "hola,
gordo" [hi, fatso] or "chau, flaco" [bye, beanpole]; thus, a group of friends waiting for
another friend might exclaim "mira, ahi viene el negro" [look, here comes the black
one/blackie].

174. In Latin America, other terms may be used in ways that sound odd to a European ear. In
Colombia, the word "mono" (literally, "monkey") is used to address light-skinned people
or people whose hair is lighter than pure black. In Mexico, the word "g�ero" is used to
address blond or light-haired people. In many areas, the word "moreno" may be
used as a term of address in similar ways to "negro".

175. Though these terms are often used between friends or relatives, they are not used
exclusively so; thus, an individual might call out to a passer-by "ay, negro, quer�s jugar
con nosotros?" [hey, blackie, do you want to play with us?]; in all cases, however, when
the word is used in this way it implies a sense of rapport or the attempt to create such
rapport; naturally, if the term were used with a sneer, then it might carry some of the
negative connotations referred to above.

176. In Latin America more widely, the term "negro" can be used to refer to any person
perceived to have darker skin than the user of the word; in the River Plate region, the
word is also sometimes used to refer to someone with very dark hair.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So I can go round calling people Negro as long as it's in an endearing way? O please.

Even if it was a misunderstanding,,he could have come out and said that,shook his bloody hand and learnt from his mistake. Tegal2012-02-17 19:44:40

Allegedly

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
So I can go round calling people Negro as long as it's in an endearing way? O please.

Even if it was a misunderstanding,,he could have come out and said that,shook his bloody hand and learnt from his mistake.


+ 1

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
So I can go round calling people Negro as long as it's in an endearing way? O please.

Even if it was a misunderstanding,,he could have come out and said that,shook his bloody hand and learnt from his mistake.


Exactly, which suggests that it was never a misunderstanding at all.

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Suarez made an absolute meal of this whole thing and was so so obviously talking sh*t to try and cover his ass. When you've been such a c*nt your entire career you have no right to any benefit of the doubt, and benefit of the doubt is essentially all you're claiming El Nino

Also Frankie Mac, Nasri refused to shake Gallas' hand last year and no one cared much either, they are both twats and it was just some bullsh*t about one millionaire talking smack on another millionaire whilst both in the french squad - adds further weight to your point i think
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
Negro please.
 
I think we can stop this thread now.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Do you work for the doom post?

Allegedly

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

No, the Doom Post would have quoted out of context for the sake of scandal.  I did it for the lulz.

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